Life after ETH — the next United manager

If we sack ten Hag who would you want as manager?

  • Massimiliano Allegri

    Votes: 13 1.5%
  • Rúben Amorim

    Votes: 85 9.7%
  • Michael Carrick

    Votes: 9 1.0%
  • Roberto de Zerbi

    Votes: 14 1.6%
  • Thomas Frank

    Votes: 41 4.7%
  • Sebastian Hoeneß

    Votes: 39 4.4%
  • Eddie Howe

    Votes: 7 0.8%
  • Simone Inzaghi

    Votes: 47 5.3%
  • Andoni Iraola

    Votes: 21 2.4%
  • Thiago Motta

    Votes: 5 0.6%
  • Julian Nagelsmann

    Votes: 145 16.5%
  • Graham Potter

    Votes: 22 2.5%
  • Ruud van Nistelrooy

    Votes: 16 1.8%
  • Marco Silva

    Votes: 10 1.1%
  • Thomas Tuchel

    Votes: 133 15.1%
  • Xabi Alonso

    Votes: 150 17.0%
  • Xavi

    Votes: 24 2.7%
  • Kieran McKenna

    Votes: 52 5.9%
  • Unai Emery

    Votes: 47 5.3%

  • Total voters
    880
  • This poll will close: .
Alonso is never happening, I'd forget about it.

McKenna, I'm not sure I fully trust. I know his achievements of course but how fresh are his tactical ideas?

Allegri zzzzzz. Less said the better.

Amorim seems like the only realistic option but will he move mid-season? Will our players fit his 3 ATB system?

Tuchel really is a no-brainer. If there's any way we can get him in on an interim role I'd be over the moon. Surely no top club is going to hire him this season. The PL guys (Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, City) are sorted. He's done the rounds in Germany (Bayern, Dortmund). He has fallen out at PSG. The Italians seem content with their current set of managers as well - no obvious under pressure candidates and even if there were, the United job is bigger. It seems like we can go back and convince him to take over. Otherwise he's wasting a whole year doing nothing and the longer that goes on, the more doubts creep into people's heads about how good you were in the first place.
 
I don't see any obvious proven candidates. Zidane is pie in the sky for a number of reasons, and probably not even the type of manager the current executive team at United would go for anyway. On a personal level he just doesn't appeal to me either. Tuchel I can see going horribly wrong within a fairly short time frame. He just seems a combustible type, maybe too much of a maverick or self-important kind of person to really cooperate at length with most people. Doesn't seem like a good fit for taking a long term project which I still think we need at United.

Then there is Alonso. He would probably want to move next season, and if Slot, Kompany and Ancelotti are all still going strong...maybe it's possible he would consider us if we're on a better trajectory by then? It feels really unlikely, but if the executive team had tangible reasons to think it was possible, then obviously they should pursue it. I wonder if they might dislike the gamble of waiting for him since we would likely be dead in the water, if any of his old clubs were looking to make a change at the same time. But then again, nothing is impossible. Leny Yoro. Remember Leny Yoro.

The other managers with a buzz around them like Hoeness, Inzaghi, maybe Amorim who people here seem to like a lot. I haven't looked enough at them to know whether they would be a good fit. My gut is telling me no on both Inzaghi and Amorim though. I can't help but think like they might struggle to adapt and also would need to make sweeping changes. Which doesn't sound so bad at the moment but still :lol:

I think it could have value to get a manager, who has experience in the Premier League. Especially in this situation where we perhaps don't have any outstanding candidates elsewhere, but have to look deeper and identify someone who is ready to take that next step. That leads me to looking at managers like Frank, Iraiola, McKenna and perhaps...Marco Silva? Howe doesn't seem likely at all given the reported issues with Ashworth. I also don't want to see him here for personal reasons, though I'll allow Newcastles style of football appeals to me. So for the others I looked at some statistics to get an idea of their recent track records.

Frank has been at Brentford for a long time and build them from the ground up as far as I can tell. If you go by the Wikipedia page he had pretty impressive seasons in the Championship after getting them going. In the last two seasons of the Premier Leageue he managed to finish 9th in 22/23 scoring 58 goals (exactly the same amount United scored.......:rolleyes:) with almost no difference between their xPTS and actual points won. In the same season his team also managed to take 17 points off the leagues final top six teams. I think that's pretty impressive, but it could be an outlier.
Last season they dropped off massively, finishing 16th with only 39 points. However, their xPTS was actually still decent at almost 53, which would have seen them finishing 11th. Also they actually had an xG of 64 which was about 5 higher than their previous, highly succesful season. Obviously defending matters too, but that was still the 8th highest xG in the league. That's without Ivan Toney, which probably also goes some way to explaining their underperformance in terms of goal output. Also it should be said that they only managed 6 points againt the final top six teams, so maybe the 22/23 does not indicate a pattern of overperformance for him in this regard. In the cup competions Brentford haven't really done much in the past couple of seasons. Ideally for a United manager I would want someone who had shown something more here. Maybe not Fergie Aberdeen levels but something at least. So that counts against him.

Iraiola hasn't been at Bournemouth that long, but they had a pretty good season. Finishing 13th with 48 points from an expected 53,5 seems solid enough. They scored 54 goals with an xG of 63,76, which coincidentally puts them just below Brentford in that table at 9th, so a pretty succesful attacking team. Their xGA was actually almost 5 higher than Brentfords though, which seems to indicate that they might have been a bit lucky last year. Also they barely managed any points against the top six teams, only 2 in total, and again nothing of note in cup competions. He did get Rayo Vallecano to the semi-finals of the Spanish cup though before he left for Bournemouth, so that's perhaps something.

Then there is Silva. His Fulham team finished 10th and 14th the past couple of years. In 22/23 they overperformed quite a bit, winning 52 points from an expected 39, scoring 55 goals with an xG of 48. Their xGA was a massive 71,5....yikes, top of the league :eek: That's prime De Gea levels of goalkeeping unless they just got extremely lucky. Last season their points differential compared to xPTS was much less noticeable, and their xG was 15th in the table. Not great on paper. They managed an improvement in their xGA, but it was still 14th in the table. Both seasons they took 7 points from the top six teams, and Silva managed to lead his team to some measure of cup succes in both seasons - a semifinal in the league cup last year and an FA cup quarter final in 22/23. That's something?

We have yet to see what McKenna can do (and chooses to do) in the Premier League, but his rise with Ipswich is something pretty special I think. 92 goals scored in the Championship, 96 points. Thats five goals more than Kompany's Burnley and only 5 points less in their first season with back to back promotions. Kompany's Bayern is looking pretty interesting so far, so...maybe United should consider going empowering someone like McKenna? Obviously, this is an extremely shallow argument. Bayern and United have very different squad profiles, the Premier League is a lot tougher and so on, but the romantic in me would be genuinely excited to him given the opportunity - especially given the historical and personal connections. Proper risk of course, but this is where the higher ups hopefully has not just the analytics but also the inside information to assess whether he is someone who is ready for that kind of challenge already.

Personally, I prefer the idea of going bold and getting a project manager like Frank or McKenna. I'll concede that might not be possible at United the way it was at Arsenal with Arteta for instance because of the added pressure. But I think if we went all in on a candidate like that, who had proper backing and patience, we could ride out short term issues as long as we could see an actual playstyle developing in the first year. Klopp and Arteta struggled in the beginning as well, but their ideas started shining through pretty quickly, and I think that would buy some time with both the fans, pundits and internally at United as well.

If I was to choose now, I would go with Thomas Frank. I think he brings some charisma, confidence and people skills to the job and he seems like a strong communicator as well. A bit like Klopp in that regard maybe? Brentford have been impressive given their ressource levels and he appears to have both tactical acumen and motivational skills too. I wouldn't have wanted him before, because I actually thought he would be the next Liverpool manager. Also his interviews after playing United have been pretty grating in the past. The lack of knockout tournament success is also not ideal, but I think we really need someone who can inject some energy into the squad, connect with the players and make us play some bold attacking football again. As an extra benefit, the financial risks of hiring Frank would probably be fairly low too. I doubt we would have to pay over the odds to get him, whereas I'm certain someone like Tuchel would require a massive contract to even consider taking the job.

Great analysis. I’ve been thinking Frank might be right for a few seasons.
 
I would go for Valverde, Iraola, Inzaghi and if possible, Tuchel (even though he doesn't strictly fit my remit). These are in terms of the names we know. I don't think Nagelsmann or Zidane are possible right now. Outside of these names, I think there are less known managers that can offer so much to our head coach position if given the opportunity.

Amorim is a bit of a risk for me because I don't trust successes had outside England, Italy or Spain. As one of the biggest clubs in the world, I think we can afford to set that kind of filter. These leagues are of a higher level, and that gap is extending every day. For me, this is the main reason Ten Hag has struggled for success at United. Its a much faster paced and physical league with better quality teams. Employing risky systems and getting success is possible in the Netherlands, Portugal or Scotland, if you're manager of Porto, Benfica, Sporting, Ajax, PSV or Celtic. I think that makes it difficult to truly assess a manager.

I'd much rather a flexible manager with a decent media presence (not a POS), than one who employs a fixed set up with limited flexibility. For me, of the managers we employed, the worst in terms of impact to the club have been LVG and Ten Hag. This has been because they are stubborn in their tactical approach, arrogant and poor man managers. Getting a manager who is able to be introspective, learn from errors and makes an effort to actually get along with the players and media is more important than people think. Ole's ability to do those things, despite not having much tactical knowledge, is what allowed him to find 2nd and 3rd, despite not having quality teams. I'm not saying we should hire a novice like Ole was, but that those factors should also be heavily considered when looking for a manager. How can we set a standard geared against selfish, egotistic and arrogant player behaviour, when our managers are even more culpable of those things.

I wouldn’t say Ten Hag is overly arrogant. Stubborn, yes. But I think both impressions stem from a limited ability to empathise. I would actually place him quite a lot further along the autistic spectrum than most - obviously only going off his TV interviews.

I’ve also found his English language ability pretty remarkable from day one. I’ve lived in Holland and for a guy with his background it’s surprisingly poor. It’s a very high bar there of course.
 
Alonso is never happening, I'd forget about it.

McKenna, I'm not sure I fully trust. I know his achievements of course but how fresh are his tactical ideas?

Allegri zzzzzz. Less said the better.

Amorim seems like the only realistic option but will he move mid-season? Will our players fit his 3 ATB system?

Tuchel really is a no-brainer. If there's any way we can get him in on an interim role I'd be over the moon. Surely no top club is going to hire him this season. The PL guys (Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, City) are sorted. He's done the rounds in Germany (Bayern, Dortmund). He has fallen out at PSG. The Italians seem content with their current set of managers as well - no obvious under pressure candidates and even if there were, the United job is bigger. It seems like we can go back and convince him to take over. Otherwise he's wasting a whole year doing nothing and the longer that goes on, the more doubts creep into people's heads about how good you were in the first place.
Doubt Tuchel would take an interim role. He aint sam allardyce. We are stuck with either hiring him on a decent contract or giving it ti ruudy till the summer. Usually id expect us to wait until summer but we need ucl money. One thing i know is eth ain't turning this around.
 
Can anyone tell me why Thomas Frank is so rarely mentioned? I mean, his record is quite extraordinary: First he overcame a crisis at Brentford. Lost his first 8 games in charge, then turned things around and had them play dominant possession based attacking football. Then, with a limited budget, he took them to the play offs two times and got them promoted. Still on a budget they finished 13 and 9 in their two first seasons by adapting to the PL with a more direct and compact style, but still with an attacking mindset. Last season they had half the team and many key players out with injuries and their star striker banned. Still managed to survive. They have an impressing record vs top six and are the latest team to beat City at Etihad.
Thomas Frank is the longest serving manager in the Prem bar Pep. He has shown that he can implement both long term strategy and adapt quickly when needed. He’s man management is excellent and he always comes off as both honest and direct in interviews.

The only caveat is the fact that the setup at Brentford is quite unique - but his tactical skills and personal qualities are obvious. Why not go for him as he’s both promising and proved?
Thomas Frank is a very good shout, to be honest.

I guess he'd try and turn us into a more disciplined high pressing team, which is what ETH has been attempting and failing miserably at, because our backline just stays put and it's all chaotic.

Brentford are much more intelligent in their pressing from what I've seen, by a country mile.
 
Whoever is next manager needs to either drop Bruno or tell him he isnt second striker and to play in midfield. Its as clear as night and day playing Bruno and Eriksen/Casemiro in midfield will result in us getting run through regardless who is manager. We might as well play Collyer with Mainoo as we are not getting top 4. The experience will help him and Utd in the long run.
 
Whoever is next manager needs to either drop Bruno or tell him he isnt second striker and to play in midfield. Its as clear as night and day playing Bruno and Eriksen/Casemiro in midfield will result in us getting run through regardless who is manager. We might as well play Collyer with Mainoo as we are not getting top 4. The experience will help him and Utd in the long run.

There is no problem in theory with a 4-4-2 pressing shape. Pep, Arteta both use it as do many other managers.
 
I don’t see Berrada giving the okay for Allegri or Southgate. He’s a footballing CEO and while he’ll let the technical staff do their analysis, I’m sure he’d stop any daft, regressive ideas like that. I feckin hope so, anyway.
 
Who said they should be? I said they shouldn't be definitely dismissed as not world class just because they don't have a good CV yet. You think Guardiola wasn't already "world class" at Barca B in 2007? Or Klopp at Mainz and Dortmund before winning a trophy?

Dismissing potential candidates just because they're early into their careers and haven't won anything is detrimental. Thankfully clubs don't actually apply this logic.

Aint no way Guardiola or Klopp were already world class back when they still had won nothing. Honestly if you want to act like a sidekick (knowning/making up claim that the up coming manager is world class), then perhaps you can give us 1 or 2 names that youve considered as world class? Then we will come back to this conversation in 2- 5 years.
 
If i had to guess i think Nagelsmann is our next manager I'm pretty sure.

Mazroui & De Ligt both played under him (bought in his seasons) at Bayern and so did Zirkzee who has improved after leaving Bayern who we all know plays as a non traditional forward/interlinking forward.

Klopp distanced himself of the German national team Job however :

Germany sporting director Rudi Voller did not hide his interest in hiring Klopp, insisting the job is his to lose if current manager Julian Nagelsmann ever decides to take his talents back to club football.

I also think we will get Alphonso Davies next season on a free because of this, which then makes us understand why we didn't grab one this transfer window in arguably our weakest spot. We then have 4 ex Bayern players on our books which makes us look less like an ex Ajax team and more like an ex Bayern team.

Nagelsmann has coached 4 of these players & can use them all to help him settle in.
 
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If i had to guess i think Nagelsmann is our next manager I'm pretty sure.

Mazroui & De Ligt both played under him (bought in his seasons) at Bayern and so did Zirkzee who has improved after leaving Bayern who we all know plays as an interlinking forward.

Klopp distanced himself of the German national team Job however :

Germany sporting director Rudi Voller did not hide his interest in hiring Klopp, insisting the job is his to lose if current manager Julian Nagelsmann ever decides to take his talents back to club football.

I also think we will get Alphonso Davies next season on a free because of this. We then have 4 ex Bayern players on our books which makes us look less like an ex Ajax team and more like an ex Bayern team.

Nagelsmann has coached 4 of these players & can use them all to help him settle in.

Take it you mean after 2026 World Cup so would still need to get someone in the meantime
 
If i had to guess i think Nagelsmann is our next manager I'm pretty sure.

Mazroui & De Ligt both played under him (bought in his seasons) at Bayern and so did Zirkzee who has improved after leaving Bayern who we all know plays as a non traditional forward/interlinking forward.

Klopp distanced himself of the German national team Job however :

Germany sporting director Rudi Voller did not hide his interest in hiring Klopp, insisting the job is his to lose if current manager Julian Nagelsmann ever decides to take his talents back to club football.

I also think we will get Alphonso Davies next season on a free because of this, which then makes us understand why we didn't grab one this transfer window in arguably our weakest spot. We then have 4 ex Bayern players on our books which makes us look less like an ex Ajax team and more like an ex Bayern team.

Nagelsmann has coached 4 of these players & can use them all to help him settle in.

You're going to be disappointed when it's not going to be Nagelsmann.
 
Top top post mate. Thank you for taking the time to post such a long and thought out essay. I really enjoyed reading it.
Thanks!

Source is Muppetiers so take with pinch of salt. Apparently McKenna, Amorim and Alonso are the frontrunners, with Hoeness, Inzaghi and Iraola seemingly on a tier below that.

Good list of names to be honest if to be believed. Not sure if Alonso would jump for it but who knows.


Ok, can work with that.


Yeah, no thanks.
 
Thomas Frank is a very good shout, to be honest.

I guess he'd try and turn us into a more disciplined high pressing team, which is what ETH has been attempting and failing miserably at, because our backline just stays put and it's all chaotic.

Brentford are much more intelligent in their pressing from what I've seen, by a country mile.
Right? There are other options but it really baffles me that he’s not held in higher esteem all things considered. His accomplishments outshines all the other non-big name managers mentioned IMO.
 
Ipswich Town prior to McKenna's arrival was genuinely a mid-table League One team, and scoring 46 and 46 goals in two seasons prior. He took over mid-season. The season after, got Ipswich promoted with 101 goals (2022/23). Then direct promotion to PL with 92 goals (2023/24). And achieving that while spending feck all. I think that some sort of miracle we need.
 
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I have always liked how Allegri sets his teams up in Europe . I can't imagine how he will do in the league but he's the type to get the best out of your best players.
 
Ipswich Town prior to McKenna's arrival was genuinely a mid-table League One team, and scoring 46 and 46 goals in two seasons prior. He took over mid-season. The season after, got Ipswich promoted with 101 goals (2022/23). Then direct promotion to PL with 92 goals (2023/24). And achieving that while spending feck all. I think that some sort of miracle we need.
It’s remarkable. Keeping a team like that in the prem for at least four seasons is even more remarkable
 
Is Nagelsmann now considered ungettable? Can't he do dual managerial roles ala LVG?
 
Is Nagelsmann now considered ungettable? Can't he do dual managerial roles ala LVG?
He simply won't. He made pretty clear that he wants to be there for his little children (who live with his ex wife) and therefore would like not to take a job abroad. A dual role simply would be even more impossible, and also the DFB would never accept it.
 
He simply won't. He made pretty clear that he wants to be there for his little children (who live with his ex wife) and therefore would like not to take a job abroad. A dual role simply would be even more impossible, and also the DFB would never accept it.

Ah, fair enough. Thanks for that, mate.
 
Ipswich Town prior to McKenna's arrival was genuinely a mid-table League One team, and scoring 46 and 46 goals in two seasons prior. He took over mid-season. The season after, got Ipswich promoted with 101 goals (2022/23). Then direct promotion to PL with 92 goals (2023/24). And achieving that while spending feck all. I think that some sort of miracle we need.
OT: Serious question for posters a lot older than me in my mid-30s...when Graham Taylor performed similar or even greater feats at Watford, was he ever considered for the very biggest jobs?
 
You think Iraola wouldn't want to bring his own assistant coach?
I think he would but that coach would be first team coach, to manage United. Is a huge step up in his career, he would make concessions.
 
Great analysis. I’ve been thinking Frank might be right for a few seasons.

Thanks, yeah I'm quite interested to see what he could do on a bigger stage. Aside from the lack of tournament success, I would have couple of concerns about him still though.

First, why hasn't any of the other, bigger teams picked him up yet? Liverpool got Slot instead, Tottenham opted for Ange and Chelsea appointed a Championship coach. Villa, Brighton, perhaps even Newcastle or West Ham. That's a lot of bigger clubs choosing someone else it seems. It doesn't necessarily mean there is something wrong with him that we're not seeing, but it's worth considering I think.

Second, no big team experience so far. How does he react to that kind of environment, pressure and personal attention? I'd be less worried about this one actually. When I see him in interviews, press conferences, on MNF and son, he just oozes confidence and energy. He seems really, really comfortable in his own skin and quite intelligent as well. I could see him thriving in that spotlight, where as I think someone like Ole unfortunately wilted quite a bit (under very difficult circumstances, I know) and Erik just reads like he accepts that it's part of the job, but he doesn't enjoy being the center of attention.
 
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I don’t see Berrada giving the okay for Allegri or Southgate. He’s a footballing CEO and while he’ll let the technical staff do their analysis, I’m sure he’d stop any daft, regressive ideas like that. I feckin hope so, anyway.
This would be the same as hiring Jose again. No way will this happen
 

I still think Stuttgart's manager, Hoeneß, is worth considering. He's only 42.

2nd in The Bundesliga last season, maintains a win rate of almost 60%, and still has Stuttgart competitive this season (despite selling multiple key players).

They even gave Real a tough game a fortnight ago. Smashed Dortmund 5-1 recently also.
 
McKenna isn't ready yet, having worked under Jose and Ole he's hardly learned from the best, possibly a great assistant coach currently but you would think the players will struggle to understand how a man who has never won anything can lead them to a league title.

Never been a fan of Allegri but if that’s the choice then I’ll get behind it and enjoy the ride until he’s pictured speeding out of carrington shirtless in his fiat after we get battered by some lower league side.
 

I still think Stuttgart's manager, Hoeneß, is worth considering. He's only 42.
The only manager in history to win the title in Germany's Third League with a U23/reserves team (Bayern's U23 - the team which EtH failed to promote from Regionalliga to Third League a few years before).
 
No way will Alonso come here - he'll ruin his Liverpool status and risk putting himself down the pecking order for Real if he fails.

Can't say I know enough about Amorim, Allegri and the Stuttgart fella. I think my experience of Italian managers has been scarred by Capello being the one to instil tactical nous and discipline with England, only to fail miserably on every level.

The problem for me is whether we risk setting our sights too high, ie realistically challenging for the PL and CL, or breaking into the top 4 tier and competing in CL whilst playing modern, attractive, entertaining football.
 
The only manager in history to win the title in Germany's Third League with a U23/reserves team (Bayern's U23 - the team which EtH failed to promote from Regionalliga to Third League a few years before).
Between Hürzeler, Hoeneß and Nagelsmann (he's been managing for a long time already), Germany have a new wave of coaches