Lingard to join West Ham on loan

Harold_Giles

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You're making my point really. Ole could have stopped the deal but didn't because like I said, it was the logical concession. However he clearly didn't not intend this outcome.

As you said, West Ham were not seen as a competitor but the coming of Lingard was the factor that propelled them to that point. Had Ole foreseen this, he won't have let him go there.

Therefore Ole doesn't get credit for making a "brilliant decision" when he never intended these outcomes.
I do believe he intenden for Jesse to show his worth, to ultimately be able to bolster our summer war chest and free up wages.

It has worked out brilliantly.

Credit to Ole and Jesse. Win-Win
 

Tom Cato

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I hate this argument, we are sitting second in the league so all is ok. Let's put it in perspective shall we...

City are running away with the league for fun.
Liverpool have had a catostrophic season pretty littered with injuries.
Chelsea have Lampard for half a season and you can see a massive improvement.
Leicester who's squad is miles behind ours are only a few points off us.
Spurs have Jose...

Now yes I'm being overly negative here but playing devil's advocate to your optimism. I just don't think we are well coached or technically adept.

I suspect a top manager would be getting far more from the team.

In terms of only getting a tune out of the players. I would say Shaw is the only improved player under Ole, everyone else is static or going backwards.
Friendly reminder that Ole doesn't actually work with the players all that much, appart from the strikers. The coaching staff does the heavy lifting, running drills, instructing players, etc. Ole is a daily manager of operations, who tells his coaches what he wants and pops down to the training ground to shout a bit and say inspiring words during the day.

Everyone knows what a manager does, right?
 

GBBQ

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Plenty of time players who don’t quite make it at United go on to have strong PL careers. It doesn’t mean we missed a trick but sometimes players need to play week in week out at a team under less scrutiny to reach their potential; Johnny Evans being a prime example.

I’m very happy to see Lingard make the most of this loan and put himself in Southgates plans but I don’t think he’s gonna have a career back here. I like him, he seems like a good lad and does a lot of good off the pitch. It’s best for all if he does leave but his form would suggest he might have more than West Ham interested. Works well for United to get a fee and free up wages and Lingard gets a chance to make his name as a key player and not just bit-part United nearly man.
 

SirScholes

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Rating or not rating him is your opinion but bellend really?

He always comes across as a decent bloke to me.
Reps a lot of what annoys me in the game
Joking on social media when the team is doing poor
Too bothered about image than actually working on his game
Supposed to be “one of ours” and yet needed a loan to prove something? Nah we are better off without
 
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Reps a lot of what annoys me in the game
Joking on social media when the team is doing poor
Too bothered about image than actually working on his game
Supposed to be “one of ours” and yet needed a loan to prove something? Nah we are better off without
I agree. Scored a couple of decent goals and it really went to his head. The social media stuff and his childish antics makes him come across badly.

You can get away with being a knob if you do the business on the pitch and you're winning stuff - which lingard was not doing.

It's good to see him focused on football and in form at West Ham, i suspect he's the type who will thrive when not under pressure - he's had waaaay to long to show United whst he's about, best he leaves on a permanent basis.

He'll always have the FA Cup winning goal for United, a bigger individual moment than most players who ever plsy for the club will have.
 

Harold_Giles

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Reps a lot of what annoys me in the game
Joking on social media when the team is doing poor
Too bothered about image than actually working on his game
Supposed to be “one of ours” and yet needed a loan to prove something? Nah we are better off without
The players should also be miserable bastards like most of our fans?
Nah, let them have fun. They're human, and should be able to use their social media just like anyone else.
Just need to watch out for anything that could be seen as offensive or racist.
 

lilcurt

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Friendly reminder that Ole doesn't actually work with the players all that much, appart from the strikers. The coaching staff does the heavy lifting, running drills, instructing players, etc. Ole is a daily manager of operations, who tells his coaches what he wants and pops down to the training ground to shout a bit and say inspiring words during the day.

Everyone knows what a manager does, right?
When I say Ole, I am referring to him and his coaching setup, as ultimately he decides his coaching staff and carries the can for performances.

Its a bit like when a big wig CEO gets the stack for a under performance company, sure he may not be making the product/service but he holds the responsibility to deliver results.

Anyway, back to lingard. Remain really happy he has found his form and showing what he can do. If West Ham did manage to sneak top 4 he would be in the running for player of the season surely from an impact on club point of view.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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£30M for Lingard is good business all round actually
 

SirScholes

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The players should also be miserable bastards like most of our fans?
Nah, let them have fun. They're human, and should be able to use their social media just like anyone else.
Just need to watch out for anything that could be seen as offensive or racist.
You don’t see the best players mucking about though do you ?
Got better things to do, or focused on being able to build their brand on the pitch
 

SirScholes

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When I say Ole, I am referring to him and his coaching setup, as ultimately he decides his coaching staff and carries the can for performances.

Its a bit like when a big wig CEO gets the stack for a under performance company, sure he may not be making the product/service but he holds the responsibility to deliver results.

Anyway, back to lingard. Remain really happy he has found his form and showing what he can do. If West Ham did manage to sneak top 4 he would be in the running for player of the season surely from an impact on club point of view.
Player of the season ? Christ

Bruno better up his stats lingard is on the case
 

Harold_Giles

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You don’t see the best players mucking about though do you ?
Got better things to do, or focused on being able to build their brand on the pitch
Well, I do think excellent players like Pogba and Neymar do some of the mucking about you mention.
If what you are mainly referring to is that Hotel room incident, then I agree. That's not fun, just plain stupidity.

However I don't think, for example, him and Pogba dancing in the locker room, after practice, is something to get upset over. Even if it's after a recent loss.
 

SirScholes

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Well, I do think excellent players like Pogba and Neymar do some of the mucking about you mention.
If what you are mainly referring to is that Hotel room incident, then I agree. That's not fun, just plain stupidity.

However I don't think, for example, him and Pogba dancing in the locker room, after practice, is something to get upset over. Even if it's after a recent loss.
Two great players to mention to highlight my point
Pogba who divides opinion and neymar who should have a ballon d’or to his name. Those two could dominate football but they don’t, in neymars case he seems happy in a Micky mouse league

couldn’t of asked for two better examples, neymar is a bellend as well for what it’s worth ha
 

Harold_Giles

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Two great players to mention to highlight my point
Pogba who divides opinion and neymar who should have a ballon d’or to his name. Those two could dominate football but they don’t, in neymars case he seems happy in a Micky mouse league

couldn’t of asked for two better examples, neymar is a bellend as well for what it’s worth ha
You are totally missing the point, unless you think players don't joke around at all if it's not published on social media.
 

SirScholes

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You are totally missing the point, unless you think players don't joke around at all if it's not published on social media.
I’m not. Neymar pogba as you mentioned failing to fulfill potential, might be a reason why scholes was such a legend for me but all talking done on the pitch.
The best players in the world messi and cr7 what do you see CR7 posting? Family and him in the gym.
For me if you Perform then post all you like, otherwise it just shows a lack a professionalism for me.
 

BaillyBaillyBailly

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£30M for Lingard is good business all round actually
I agree if you take how things were at Christmas. Lingard had shown no sign he would ever get back to his 2018 form. If you would have told me 31st December 2020 that we would get £30m for him at the end of the season I would've taken it.

Having said that, would you not currently rather have Lingard than VdB? James? Diallo? I appreciate Lingard isn't a winger but he would probably still offer more than those 3 in their respective positions right now.
 

Harold_Giles

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I’m not. Neymar pogba as you mentioned failing to fulfill potential, might be a reason why scholes was such a legend for me but all talking done on the pitch.
The best players in the world messi and cr7 what do you see CR7 posting? Family and him in the gym.
For me if you Perform then post all you like, otherwise it just shows a lack a professionalism for me.
Fair enough, I understand where you are coming from.
 

Toshey

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No, no and no.
James is quick and hard working, young.
VDB is still adapting, has the movement and potential.
Diallo has talent to become world class, very young.

Lingard is done at United. He won’t come back to set the world on fire. He’ll come back and sit on the bench. Then he’ll play one odd game and be god awful.
All of you are going to start blaming Ole for not selling him whilst declaring him finished.

The only reasonable decision is to take advantage of his purple patch and use him to boost a deal or grab money.

I get why some fans have a soft spot for Lingard, as he is a “homegrown player”, but he never was and never will be good enough for what we aspire to be. Also people forget quickly how he was more interested in promoting his clothes than anything else, after some shameful results and tragic performances.
 

meamth

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When I say Ole, I am referring to him and his coaching setup, as ultimately he decides his coaching staff and carries the can for performances.

Its a bit like when a big wig CEO gets the stack for a under performance company, sure he may not be making the product/service but he holds the responsibility to deliver results.

Anyway, back to lingard. Remain really happy he has found his form and showing what he can do. If West Ham did manage to sneak top 4 he would be in the running for player of the season surely from an impact on club point of view.
Well it's baffling if we want to think Carrick, Ole or Phelan doesn't have any clue how to train like league champions. They've done it, albeit in different era.

"Hey Phelan, setup like how Fergie did, I want us to be the best in every department in the league, just like we were". "Sorry Ole, I know nothing according to Caf".
 

BaillyBaillyBailly

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No, no and no.
James is quick and hard working, young.
VDB is still adapting, has the movement and potential.
Diallo has talent to become world class, very young.

Lingard is done at United. He won’t come back to set the world on fire. He’ll come back and sit on the bench. Then he’ll play one odd game and be god awful.
All of you are going to start blaming Ole for not selling him whilst declaring him finished.

The only reasonable decision is to take advantage of his purple patch and use him to boost a deal or grab money.

I get why some fans have a soft spot for Lingard, as he is a “homegrown player”, but he never was and never will be good enough for what we aspire to be. Also people forget quickly how he was more interested in promoting his clothes than anything else, after some shameful results and tragic performances.
I agree with you if Lingard came back next season he would spend most of the season on the bench unless he maintained his current form all season (if he did he would probably win POTY).
But maybe I wasn't clear with what I meant. I am not advocating we get rid of VdB/Diallo/James. What I would suggest would be that for next season, Lingard would be a better sub than Diallo/James (maybe VdB depending on his progress). Diallo/James could easily find a loan in the EPL and gain some experience which would be more useful for them than playing a bit part.

I disagree with your point that Lingard "never was good enough". He has shown patches of form for United, England and now WHUM of how effective a player he can be when he is on it. I think on his day he is certainly good enough for a team aspiring to win a league title.
 

VeevaVee

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The players should also be miserable bastards like most of our fans?
Nah, let them have fun. They're human, and should be able to use their social media just like anyone else.
Just need to watch out for anything that could be seen as offensive or racist.
It's not a personal social media though. And most people aren't representing a club that makes millions off its fans being incredibly loyal and passionate. They can prat about on their private personal pages. It's incredibly dumb to have acted like Jesse has on social media. I have very little sympathy there. It's so easily avoidable.
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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I agree if you take how things were at Christmas. Lingard had shown no sign he would ever get back to his 2018 form. If you would have told me 31st December 2020 that we would get £30m for him at the end of the season I would've taken it.

Having said that, would you not currently rather have Lingard than VdB? James? Diallo? I appreciate Lingard isn't a winger but he would probably still offer more than those 3 in their respective positions right now.
This Lingard? Absolutely love this guy to come back but I wonder if this Lingard is what comes back or does the pressure and expectations weigh him down again?

He was so poor over 2 years its hard to believe its the same person
 

Eli Zee

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We sold the best player in the world for less than 100 million and apparently we will be doing the same with Messi Lingard this year
 

VeevaVee

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This Lingard? Absolutely love this guy to come back but I wonder if this Lingard is what comes back or does the pressure and expectations weigh him down again?
I don’t know if it was pressure and expectation, or just being so settled he (probably subconsciously) felt like he didn’t really have to impress. Think he would’ve happily sat on the bench raking it in and mucking about with his mates for the rest of his career.

He’d probably soon fall back in to old ways here, especially not playing as regularly.
 

BaillyBaillyBailly

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I don’t know if it was pressure and expectation, or just being so settled he (probably subconsciously) felt like he didn’t really have to impress. Think he would’ve happily sat on the bench raking it in and mucking about with his mates for the rest of his career.

He’d probably soon fall back in to old ways here, especially not playing as regularly.
As far as I can tell he suffered some pretty terrible personal issues soon after the 2018 world cup which massively distracted him. We then signed Bruno to play in his position and never gave Bruno a rest so Lingard had no opportunity.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for Lingard to replace Bruno. But, I do think he is the best like for like replacement we have access to should Bruno get injured. If you offered me VdB or Lingard right now to play #10 for us I would pick Lingard
 

Number32

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I said in the context of a single players impact on his team, not just overall best player in the league.
I don't get it. If a single player was making a huge impact on his team, does it means he is overall the best player in the league?
For lingard, you can just say "he is the best player form January transfer window". But "player of the season" is seemed hyperbole just like "Mesi Lingard" or "Ligardinho", or is this another Lingard's jokes?
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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I don’t know if it was pressure and expectation, or just being so settled he (probably subconsciously) felt like he didn’t really have to impress. Think he would’ve happily sat on the bench raking it in and mucking about with his mates for the rest of his career.

He’d probably soon fall back in to old ways here, especially not playing as regularly.
I know what you're getting at but you don't leave on loan if you are happy to sit on the bench and rake it in though
 

VeevaVee

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I know what you're getting at but you don't leave on loan if you are happy to sit on the bench and rake it in though
If United see him as surplus to requirements then it’s either impress somewhere else or take a massive pay cut when your contract ends and you go somewhere else anyway. A boot up the arse he probably needed
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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If United see him as surplus to requirements then it’s either impress somewhere else or take a massive pay cut when your contract ends and you go somewhere else anyway. A boot up the arse he probably needed
He probably would've got an extension with us to be fair. If he's seeking a raise then he's certainly going the right way about it.
 

Polar

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No, no and no.
James is quick and hard working, young.
VDB is still adapting, has the movement and potential.
Diallo has talent to become world class, very young.

Lingard is done at United. He won’t come back to set the world on fire. He’ll come back and sit on the bench. Then he’ll play one odd game and be god awful.
All of you are going to start blaming Ole for not selling him whilst declaring him finished.

The only reasonable decision is to take advantage of his purple patch and use him to boost a deal or grab money.

I get why some fans have a soft spot for Lingard, as he is a “homegrown player”, but he never was and never will be good enough for what we aspire to be. Also people forget quickly how he was more interested in promoting his clothes than anything else, after some shameful results and tragic performances.
Spot on!

Off course United and Ole planned a loan deal for Lingard in hope to offload him for descent money. The same can be said about Dalot and Pereira.

The situation is a win-win for United and Lingard. Suppose Lingard is very happy with his situation, and I’ll be surprised if he wants to return to United. I’ll also be very surprised if United rejects a bid between 20-30m for him.
 

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And Solskjær has won it!
I know what you're getting at but you don't leave on loan if you are happy to sit on the bench and rake it in though
It was fairly clear the club were trying to ship him out last summer on loan or permanently. But he stayed probably knowing he wouldn't play much with Bruno around to be fair. Now maybe that was down to personal family issues which would be fair enough.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

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People thinking of cashing in on Lingard are forgetting that Raiola is his agent, now.

Why move now on United's terms when he could be a free agent next summer and get better wages and signing on bonuses? That'd also be cheaper for West Ham.

Raiola must have Jesse's trust now given how well the loan worked for him, he's gonna decide what Jesse does next.

What is in Jesse and Raiola's best interest right now is to force another loan for the next season as well and get more football to show what Jesse can do. West Ham an obvious choice, but there might be better clubs interested in an in-form, fresh off the Euros, FA/EL winner in a cash-strapped Covid market.

The best we'll be getting out of this is a loan fee and wiggle room on wages, I'm afraid. Leverage in a swap for Rice seems highly unlikely.
 

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People thinking of cashing in on Lingard are forgetting that Raiola is his agent, now.

Why move now on United's terms when he could be a free agent next summer and get better wages and signing on bonuses? That'd also be cheaper for West Ham.

Raiola must have Jesse's trust now given how well the loan worked for him, he's gonna decide what Jesse does next.

What is in Jesse and Raiola's best interest right now is to force another loan for the next season as well and get more football to show what Jesse can do. West Ham an obvious choice, but there might be better clubs interested in an in-form, fresh off the Euros, FA/EL winner in a cash-strapped Covid market.

The best we'll be getting out of this is a loan fee and wiggle room on wages, I'm afraid. Leverage in a swap for Rice seems highly unlikely.
Raiola doesn’t represent Jesse any longer so not a factor in this any longer. Doubt Jesse would want a year in limbo in his late twenties
 

Djemba-Djemba

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People thinking of cashing in on Lingard are forgetting that Raiola is his agent, now.

Why move now on United's terms when he could be a free agent next summer and get better wages and signing on bonuses? That'd also be cheaper for West Ham.

Raiola must have Jesse's trust now given how well the loan worked for him, he's gonna decide what Jesse does next.

What is in Jesse and Raiola's best interest right now is to force another loan for the next season as well and get more football to show what Jesse can do. West Ham an obvious choice, but there might be better clubs interested in an in-form, fresh off the Euros, FA/EL winner in a cash-strapped Covid market.

The best we'll be getting out of this is a loan fee and wiggle room on wages, I'm afraid. Leverage in a swap for Rice seems highly unlikely.
He's not with Raiola anymore.
 

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Raiola doesn’t represent Jesse any longer so not a factor in this any longer. Doubt Jesse would want a year in limbo in his late thirties...
He's not with Raiola anymore.
Ah, did not know they'd parted ways. That's a relief, then. You can go back to the positivity.