Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

[FrankFoot]

This is what is a bit stupid for me. Maradona played in Europe for 11 years and won a grand total of 2 league titles. People always bang on about dragging Napoli to the league title twice, which, granted was when he truly hit his prime, but he only won the league twice in 8 years at Napoli.

Then he dragged Argentina to a WC win.

Baring in mind Argentina did have a very good team, he wasn't playing with plumbers. Napoli had a lot of money and also a very good squad.

So people say Maradona is the better player than Messi for what he won in 2 years and 2 months of football. Messi has had a far longer prime than Maradona and use the barometer of a tournament won over 7 games as the reason for Maradona being better.

Imagine choosing a player as better because of 7 games, when Messi has played 957 games and counting in his career, racking up 769 goals and 331 assists.

I don't even think it should be up for debate that Messi is the greater player and the better player, longevity wise and prime wise. People are really sleeping on Messi to pick Maradona over him. One international tournament win does not exceed what Messi has done in the last 15 years. It is quite frankly ridiculous.

Maradona occupies an especial place on argentinians heart, because he was more relatable to them than Messi.

Maradona played in an era when there wasn't internet and social media, and you still could see him going to all argentinian tv channels talking to people about his life and personal stories, which made people feel identified with him, he was a very emotional person.
There is some good old footage of Diego inviting argentinian journalists to his home to eat 'asado' and have a chatting like regular people.

Messi is a reserved guy, all the bigs news you see from him is just about his birthday or his children's birthday, he is not the kind of guy who is very open about his personal life or his stories (and that's fine), most of his Instagram post are commercial stuff for products.

Maradona could have a chat with a journalist on TV and say "hey, man i had some nasty diarrhea yesterday, and had to sleep in the toilet, did this happened to you before?", and then proceeds to tell the story about his diarrhea.

If you add to all this that he scored against England in a World Cup right after the Falklands incident, it's no surprise argentinians love Maradona way more than Messi

From what I understand, for many argentinians Messi is one of the best footballers ever, a GOAT...but Diego Maradona was not only a GOAT footballer, he was man of people, the public person argentinians felt identified with, the person that talked to people about his problems, flaws, and struggles.
Plus Messi didn't make his debut in Argentina, it was in Spain, argentinians watched a teenager Diego playing for the first time in the argentinian first division with Argentino Juniors, and then play for Boca Juniors (the most popular football club in Argentina).

I do understand why argentinians might prefer Maradona over Messi, i might not agree with it, but I can understand it.

 

[Pocho]

This is what is a bit stupid for me. Maradona played in Europe for 11 years and won a grand total of 2 league titles. People always bang on about dragging Napoli to the league title twice, which, granted was when he truly hit his prime, but he only won the league twice in 8 years at Napoli.

Then he dragged Argentina to a WC win.

Baring in mind Argentina did have a very good team, he wasn't playing with plumbers. Napoli had a lot of money and also a very good squad.

So people say Maradona is the better player than Messi for what he won in 2 years and 2 months of football. Messi has had a far longer prime than Maradona and use the barometer of a tournament won over 7 games as the reason for Maradona being better.

Imagine choosing a player as better because of 7 games, when Messi has played 957 games and counting in his career, racking up 769 goals and 331 assists.

I don't even think it should be up for debate that Messi is the greater player and the better player, longevity wise and prime wise. People are really sleeping on Messi to pick Maradona over him. One international tournament win does not exceed what Messi has done in the last 15 years. It is quite frankly ridiculous.

this

 

[Andrade]

Galácticos Real was far from the best team, they were very good, but not enough to challenge for many trophies consecutively like City and current Real Madrid, so i would say the only real top team R9 played for is Brazil.

When Pele played at Santos, the Brazilian league was the most stacked out there with talent.

Goal inflation is more noticeable nowadays due to Bosman ruling, the richest teams can sign the best foreigners without thinking about restrictions, so nowadays 90% of the best talent in the world ends up playing at the elite clubs.

We won't the see cases anymore like Maradona at Napoli, Matthaus at Monchengladbach, Zico at Udinese, or brazilian Falcao at Roma.

Very important point and one of the major reasons football now is so different from how it was back then.

 

[wangyu]

I’m pretty sure the commentator was having an orgasm

Good goal but a gift nonetheless. It is funny how Ronaldo’s goals versus small opponents get a bit downplayed, I can tell you Argentina plays at least as much opponents of the same low standards. I think there are about 12 to 15 European countries that are on par or better than the likes of Chile, Colombia and Uruguay.

Anyway Messi is comfortably better than Ronaldo, there is no debate.

 

[FrankFoot]

Very important point and one of the major reasons football now is so different from how it was back then.

Indeed.

Comparing goals stats between the past and the present it's useless.

Nowadays there is an abysmal difference in quality between top teams and medium/smaller teams, which makes stad-padding way easier.

E.g Juventus in the 80s was the best Italian team, but they were not 10 times better than the rest of Italy despite having Platini, Marco Tardelli, and Boniek because many other Italian teams were also stacked.
Platini only won 2 Serie A titles with Juventus, while someone like Dybala has 5 titles with Juve, as the last one played in a Serie A that was far from being the best league and was severely lacking quality outside of the top 3.

 

[Bebestation]

Great stuffy - Downplaying Maradona for having only a certain number of titles when I’ve been saying for ages one of the reason I don’t rate Messi is he only won 4 CL titles all on round of Xavi and Iniesta whilst Ronaldo won 5 during a spread of period at two different clubs.

Anyway, I’ve also made up my mind if Messi wins the CL with PSG then he will also become my Goat because well he has just to achieve that too.

 

[Bebestation]

If he really is a doctor, God save us all.

Continue enjoying being a builder boys! Just value the technical ability of a player than the mental ability too.

That is just pure IQ level at its best.

Take care! Had to take my job in to consideration to start tossing off Messi!

 

[Bebestation]

George Best and Giggs didn’t give up their skill but bloody Ronaldinho was dancing in La Liga

Such a dance worthy league!

 

[Gehrman]

George Best and Giggs didn’t give up their skill but bloody Ronaldinho was dancing in La Liga

Such a dance worthy league!

Can you remember when Ronaldinho played for PSG and Brazil?

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Maradona occupies an especial place on argentinians heart, because he was more relatable to them than Messi.

Maradona played in an era when there wasn't internet and social media, and you still could see him going to all argentinian tv channels talking to people about his life and personal stories, which made people feel identified with him, he was a very emotional person.
There is some good old footage of Diego inviting argentinian journalists to his home to eat 'asado' and have a chatting like regular people.

Messi is a reserved guy, all the bigs news you see from him is just about his birthday or his children's birthday, he is not the kind of guy who is very open about his personal life or his stories (and that's fine), most of his Instagram post are commercial stuff for products.

Maradona could have a chat with a journalist on TV and say "hey, man i had some nasty diarrhea yesterday, and had to sleep in the toilet, did this happened to you before?", and then proceeds to tell the story about his diarrhea.

If you add to all this that he scored against England in a World Cup right after the Falklands incident, it's no surprise argentinians love Maradona way more than Messi

From what I understand, for many argentinians Messi is one of the best footballers ever, a GOAT...but Diego Maradona was not only a GOAT footballer, he was man of people, the public person argentinians felt identified with, the person that talked to people about his problems, flaws, and struggles.
Plus Messi didn't make his debut in Argentina, it was in Spain, argentinians watched a teenager Diego playing for the first time in the argentinian first division with Argentino Juniors, and then play for Boca Juniors (the most popular football club in Argentina).

I do understand why argentinians might prefer Maradona over Messi, i might not agree with it, but I can understand it.

Good post.

 

[little.triangles]

Maradona occupies an especial place on argentinians heart, because he was more relatable to them than Messi.

Maradona played in an era when there wasn't internet and social media, and you still could see him going to all argentinian tv channels talking to people about his life and personal stories, which made people feel identified with him, he was a very emotional person.
There is some good old footage of Diego inviting argentinian journalists to his home to eat 'asado' and have a chatting like regular people.

Messi is a reserved guy, all the bigs news you see from him is just about his birthday or his children's birthday, he is not the kind of guy who is very open about his personal life or his stories (and that's fine), most of his Instagram post are commercial stuff for products.

Maradona could have a chat with a journalist on TV and say "hey, man i had some nasty diarrhea yesterday, and had to sleep in the toilet, did this happened to you before?", and then proceeds to tell the story about his diarrhea.

If you add to all this that he scored against England in a World Cup right after the Falklands incident, it's no surprise argentinians love Maradona way more than Messi

From what I understand, for many argentinians Messi is one of the best footballers ever, a GOAT...but Diego Maradona was not only a GOAT footballer, he was man of people, the public person argentinians felt identified with, the person that talked to people about his problems, flaws, and struggles.
Plus Messi didn't make his debut in Argentina, it was in Spain, argentinians watched a teenager Diego playing for the first time in the argentinian first division with Argentino Juniors, and then play for Boca Juniors (the most popular football club in Argentina).

I do understand why argentinians might prefer Maradona over Messi, i might not agree with it, but I can understand it.

Good post, but if players are more like automatons today, then we must also remember that journalists are also always fishing for scandal and click-bait stories in the modern social-media era. Are there journalists anymore who players would want to invite to their home? Just a thought.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

This is what is a bit stupid for me. Maradona played in Europe for 11 years and won a grand total of 2 league titles. People always bang on about dragging Napoli to the league title twice, which, granted was when he truly hit his prime, but he only won the league twice in 8 years at Napoli.

I don't think "counting individual league titles won by a player in a team" is a particularly good way to judge their quality. There is only so much a single player can do in a 38-game competition in which they play with 10 other people on the pitch and 6-9 more in the squad.

it's fine to think Messi is better than Maradona but you're basically arguing that we've been conned into thinking Maradona was very good.

 

[That_Bloke]

Ah good old cafe. Downplaying Maradona’s achievements

They've just never seen him play and go by stats, ignoring the whole context and how different his era was compared to today's football.

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Great stuffy - Downplaying Maradona for having only a certain number of titles when I’ve been saying for ages one of the reason I don’t rate Messi is he only won 4 CL titles all on round of Xavi and Iniesta whilst Ronaldo won 5 during a spread of period at two different clubs.

Anyway, I’ve also made up my mind if Messi wins the CL with PSG then he will also become my Goat because well he has just to achieve that too.

4 of Ronaldo’s 5 CL‘s we’re with Modric and Kroos. Xavi was a sub at the end of matches in 2015. Not much different.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I don't think "counting individual league titles won by a player in a team" is a particularly good way to judge their quality. There is only so much a single player can do in a 38-game competition in which they play with 10 other people on the pitch and 6-9 more in the squad.

it's fine to think Messi is better than Maradona but you're basically arguing that we've been conned into thinking Maradona was very good.

Okay fair enough, however as they are of a similar mould style wise, the fact that Messi has played 957 games and counting in his career, racking up 769 goals and 331 assists pretty much closes any debate over who was better.

 

[Gehrman]

Okay fair enough, however as they are of a similar mould style wise, the fact that Messi has played 957 games and counting in his career, racking up 769 goals and 331 assists pretty much closes any debate over who was better.

If it was solely about goal and assist stats, Pelé vs Maradona would never have been a thing.

 

[Andrade]

Okay fair enough, however as they are of a similar mould style wise, the fact that Messi has played 957 games and counting in his career, racking up 769 goals and 331 assists pretty much closes any debate over who was better.

No. There is no debate as to who looked after themselves better and did more to prolong their career. But as to who the better footballer was in their peak years, there absolutely is a debate. It's not just about who plays the most games or who has the highest stats. I don't know how many more times this can be explained.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

No. There is no debate as to who looked after themselves better and did more to prolong their career. But as to who the better footballer was in their peak years, there absolutely is a debate. It's not just about who plays the most games or who has the highest stats. I don't know how many more times this can be explained.

Of course it is not just about the stats, but when Messi can do almost anything with a ball in the attacking sense, and the ability of both him and Maradona is extremely close, then to separate them the stats are what helps to differentiate the players. Goals and assists win games for the most part and Messi is head and shoulders above Maradona in scoring goals and creating goals, which is the main component of an attacking player.

 

[Red Star One]

Maradona occupies an especial place on argentinians heart, because he was more relatable to them than Messi.

Maradona played in an era when there wasn't internet and social media, and you still could see him going to all argentinian tv channels talking to people about his life and personal stories, which made people feel identified with him, he was a very emotional person.
There is some good old footage of Diego inviting argentinian journalists to his home to eat 'asado' and have a chatting like regular people.

Messi is a reserved guy, all the bigs news you see from him is just about his birthday or his children's birthday, he is not the kind of guy who is very open about his personal life or his stories (and that's fine), most of his Instagram post are commercial stuff for products.

Maradona could have a chat with a journalist on TV and say "hey, man i had some nasty diarrhea yesterday, and had to sleep in the toilet, did this happened to you before?", and then proceeds to tell the story about his diarrhea.

If you add to all this that he scored against England in a World Cup right after the Falklands incident, it's no surprise argentinians love Maradona way more than Messi

From what I understand, for many argentinians Messi is one of the best footballers ever, a GOAT...but Diego Maradona was not only a GOAT footballer, he was man of people, the public person argentinians felt identified with, the person that talked to people about his problems, flaws, and struggles.
Plus Messi didn't make his debut in Argentina, it was in Spain, argentinians watched a teenager Diego playing for the first time in the argentinian first division with Argentino Juniors, and then play for Boca Juniors (the most popular football club in Argentina).

I do understand why argentinians might prefer Maradona over Messi, i might not agree with it, but I can understand it.

Good post and spot on

 

[Andrade]

Of course it is not just about the stats, but when Messi can do almost anything with a ball in the attacking sense, and the ability of both him and Maradona is extremely close, then to separate them the stats are what helps to differentiate the players. Goals and assists win games for the most part and Messi is head and shoulders above Maradona in scoring goals and creating goals, which is the main component of an attacking player.

Again, no. That's not how it works. You can't reliably compare stats across eras but even if you were to take that reductive approach, you'd have to look at a lot more than just goals and assists. To say 'Messi is head and shoulders above Maradona in creating goals' is simply false if by 'creating goals' you mean 'assists'. That's not the same thing at all.

 

[FrankFoot]

Good post, but if players are more like automatons today, then we must also remember that journalists are also always fishing for scandal and click-bait stories in the modern social-media era. Are there journalists anymore who players would want to invite to their home? Just a thought.

Yep, things work different nowadays with social media and internet.

The personality of Maradona would be impossible to pull in this modern era with so many shitty and dishonest journalists.
Even though iego had his beefs with a couple of journalists in Argentina, but he always confronted them somehow.

He also was very close to the people also in Italy, when he played for Napoli, neapolitan farmers gave him free food (fruit and veggies) whenever he visited small towns and rural areas.

It's crazy how despite the internet and all, players nowadays seem more distant than ever from people, a consequence of social media for sure.

 

[Sayros]

It's just so weird to keep comparing players of different eras. It's a completely pointless exercise but we can't help ourselves, we need frames of references to validate our period of time in existence compared to the previous generation. So there's this inherent need to tear down the past and bring up the present, and vice-versa for the older generation. I can't think of one generation that wasn't a disappointment to their previous one. It's always been that way. I follow football and basketball (more specifically the NBA), and good luck comparing eras across either of those sports. You can look at both games and see they were played completely differently across eras. Whether it's subtle rule changes in the NBA that have slowly, over time, favored offensive players and made defense more difficult, thus resulting in inflated scoring, or the general tactics of the game changing to favor much more the 3-pointer where you have teams taking 40-50 shots from deep compared to 20 years ago where it would be in the dozen. Then you have sports science recovery which has been such a major change across all sports that it, alone, should render any kind of comparisons if not pointless, then at least unfair.

The American sports system, hate it or love it, has measures in place to mitigate the problem plaguing football today, which is a complete imbalance of financial strength and appeal between clubs and now between leagues, which @FrankFoot already explained.

I can comfortably say Messi is the greatest of his generation. Beyond that? I don't see the point.

 

[Zehner]

Good post, but if players are more like automatons today, then we must also remember that journalists are also always fishing for scandal and click-bait stories in the modern social-media era. Are there journalists anymore who players would want to invite to their home? Just a thought.

They actually do, at least over here. Some journalists are friends with professional footballers. But I imagine those working for the worst media outlets will find it more difficult to befriend a footballer.

 

[the_cliff]

Great stuffy - Downplaying Maradona for having only a certain number of titles when I’ve been saying for ages one of the reason I don’t rate Messi is he only won 4 CL titles all on round of Xavi and Iniesta whilst Ronaldo won 5 during a spread of period at two different clubs.

Anyway, I’ve also made up my mind if Messi wins the CL with PSG then he will also become my Goat because well he has just to achieve that too.

That's sort of a mute point though isn't it, both players played with arguably the best 2 club teams in history. You're talking as if Ronaldo dragged that team to win the UCL as if they had no right being there.

The same Madrid team has literally just won the UCL without him.... They done so by beating all the best teams in Europe on the way there.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Again, no. That's not how it works. You can't reliably compare stats across eras but even if you were to take that reductive approach, you'd have to look at a lot more than just goals and assists. To say 'Messi is head and shoulders above Maradona in creating goals' is simply false if by 'creating goals' you mean 'assists'. That's not the same thing at all.

Goals scored by creating their own chances, assists, chance creation, whatever parameter you want to use, he is head and shoulders above.

 

[Andrade]

Goals scored by creating their own chances, assists, chance creation, whatever parameter you want to use, he is head and shoulders above.

Haha, you've examined the data In it's entirety have you? How about the metric of each player's goal contributions as a percentage of the team totals. Have you looked at that? Of course not. You have to try and understand that the challenges they were facing were totally different. Name a single player that Maradona played with in his entrie career that was on the level of Xavi or Iniesta? When Maradona played, clubs were allowed 3 foreigners each. Now you can fill your squad with the best foreigners in the world. The 80s was a much more violent era in terms of hatchet men trying to stop skillful players. Now they are protected by referees. Please try and understand the differences, this is getting tiresome to be quite honest.

 

[mshnsh]

Maradona was a genius with a football as is Messi. The difference between the 2 players:

1. Messi I feel is better goalscorer than Maradona ever was though both are scorers of great goals.

2. Maradona had charisma and a forceful personality while Messi is a shy withdrawn character translating into Maradona being a better leader although Messi has improved in this aspect.

3. Maradona was also a nutcase and had it not been for Mexico 86, he wouldn't be in the conversation. 2 titles with Napoli wouldn't be sufficient without Mexico 86. Messi on the other hand has had a long ultra successful club career where he has been the best in the world.

With regards to Napoli, it was a great achievements but exaggerated in the sense that, after buying Diego, Napoli also bought other good footballers like Careca and Giordano in attack.

 

[Lay]

Maradona was a genius with a football as is Messi. The difference between the 2 players:

1. Messi I feel is better goalscorer than Maradona ever was though both are scorers of great goals.

2. Maradona had charisma and a forceful personality while Messi is a shy withdrawn character translating into Maradona being a better leader although Messi has improved in this aspect.

3. Maradona was also a nutcase and had it not been for Mexico 86, he wouldn't be in the conversation. 2 titles with Napoli wouldn't be sufficient without Mexico 86. Messi on the other hand has had a long ultra successful club career where he has been the best in the world.

With regards to Napoli, it was a great achievements but exaggerated in the sense that, after buying Diego, Napoli also bought other good footballers like Careca and Giordano in attack.

Careca was signed after the first scudetto win though. Napoli went from 11th (out of 16 teams) to scudetto winners in 4 seasons. The likes of Carnevale and Giordano certainly helped but they don’t win it without Maradona.

 

[mshnsh]

Careca was signed after the first scudetto win though. Napoli went from 11th (out of 16 teams) to scudetto winners in 4 seasons. The likes of Carnevale and Giordano certainly helped but they don’t win it without Maradona.

Ofcourse they don't but it is not true to say he played with shit players like it is often claimed.

 

[Andrade]

Ofcourse they don't but it is not true to say he played with shit players like it is often claimed.

That is never claimed by anyone sensible.

 

[RoyH1]

Ah good old cafe. Downplaying Maradona’s achievements

It's a generational thing. There's a whole industry of "does it hold up?" going on.

 

[mshnsh]

That is never claimed by anyone sensible.

There are always myths created about past players and one of them is that Maradona did achieved everything he did in mediocre teams.

 

[the_cliff]

Haha, you've examined the data In it's entirety have you? How about the metric of each player's goal contributions as a percentage of the team totals. Have you looked at that? Of course not. You have to try and understand that the challenges they were facing were totally different. Name a single player that Maradona played with in his entrie career that was on the level of Xavi or Iniesta? When Maradona played, clubs were allowed 3 foreigners each. Now you can fill your squad with the best foreigners in the world. The 80s was a much more violent era in terms of hatchet men trying to stop skillful players. Now they are protected by referees. Please try and understand the differences, this is getting tiresome to be quite honest.

None of what you posted has any link to chance creation. He only stated that Messi is better at creating chances than Maradona, which is true....

 

[CruyffMaradonaMessi]

At this point in time, it makes little sense to compare the career achievements of Messi with Maradona. Messi is simply light-years ahead in this department. The sole thing that Maradona has above him in this regard is the 1986 World Cup win. Which of course is no small feat and I am sure that Messi, if he could ,would trade quite a few of his trophies for a World Cup.

Anyway I think that Messi is the most accomplished footballer in football history in terms of trophies won after Dani Alves.

As Messi's career achievements overall (trophies won, goals scored, assists made, individual trophies won) in particular club career achievements, are in another galaxy compared to Maradona, the most apt comparison is their national career.

In this regard Messi is no scrub either. He is currently the 4rd highest international goal scorer of all-time with 88 goals scored (1 behind 3rd-placed Dahari of Malaysia) and the highest goal scorer in CONMEBOL- Pelé being second with 77 goals. Highest goal scorer of Argentina. Most appearances (163). 1 Copa América title (Maradona never won a single one) and 3 final defeats (2007, 2015, 2016). A World Cup final in 2014. Summer Olympics gold in 2008 with Argentina. CONMEBOL-UEFA Cup of Champions this year. He has basically won everything there is to win with Argentina besides the World Cup. Being voted/recognized as player of the tournament/highest goalscorer in many of those mentioned tournaments (Copa América, World Cup) multiple times.

Of course Messi has not performed for Argentina as well as he did for Barça but if this was any other footballer, most would be hailing his international career as one of the best out there.

As far as Napoli goes in the 1980's, I guess by that logic, why is Elkjaer not rated higher? He won the Serie A in 1984-85 with freaking Hellas Verona while being their top goalscorer. So Maradona winning 2 scudetti with a relatively stacked Napoli (in comparison with Hellas Verona) is not really that outrageous given how good Maradona himself was.

As for abilities, I am too young to have watched Maradona, but judging from clips of his, he is the closest player that I have seen to Messi ability wise and they were uncannily similar in terms of their playing styles.

 

[Gehrman]

At this point in time, it makes little sense to compare the career achievements of Messi with Maradona. Messi is simply light-years ahead in this department. The sole thing that Maradona has above him in this regard is the 1986 World Cup win. Which of course is no small feat and I am sure that Messi, if he could ,would trade quite a few of his trophies for a World Cup.

Anyway I think that Messi is the most accomplished footballer in football history in terms of trophies won after Dani Alves.

As Messi's career achievements overall (trophies won, goals scored, assists made, individual trophies won) in particular club career achievements, are in another galaxy compared to Maradona, the most apt comparison is their national career.

In this regard Messi is no scrub either. He is currently the 4rd highest international goal scorer of all-time (1 behind 3rd-placed Dahari of Malaysia) and the highest goal scorer in CONMEBOL. Pelé being second with 77 goals. Highest goal scorer of Argentina. Most appearances (163). 1 Copa América title (Maradona never won a single one) and 3 final defeats (2007, 2015, 2016). A World Cup final in 2014. Summer Olympics gold in 2008 with Argentina. CONMEBOL-UEFA Cup of Champions this year. He has basically won everything there is to win with Argentina besides the World Cup. Being voted/recognized as player of the tournament in many of those mentioned tournaments (Copa América, World Cup) multiple times.

Of course Messi has not performed for Argentina as well as he did for Barça but if this was any other footballer, most would be hailing his international career as one of the best out there.

As far as Napoli goes in the 1980's, I guess by that logic, why is Elkjaer not rated higher? He won the Serie A in 1984-85 with freaking Hellas Verona while being their top goalscorer. So Maradona winning 2 scudetti with a relatively stacked Napoli (in comparison with Hellas Verona) is not really that outrageous given how good Maradona himself was.

As for abilities, I am too young to have watched Maradona, but judging from clips of his, he is the closest player that I have seen to Messi ability wise and they were uncannily similar in terms of their playing styles.

One of my mates and his family once got a free meal and drinks at a restaurant in Verona once the owner recognized they were Danish, he repeated "El Prebo, El Prebo...."

 

[Andrade]

None of what you posted has any link to chance creation. He only stated that Messi is better at creating chances than Maradona, which is true....

How is it true?

 

[CruyffMaradonaMessi]

One of my mates and his family once got a free meal and drinks at a restaurant in Verona once the owner recognized they were Danish, he repeated "El Prebo, El Prebo...."

I am not the least surprised knowing about the Italian tifosi. Verona is a quite beautiful city too.

Anyway my side comment about Hellas Verona and Elkjaer was more to put those 2 Napoli scudetti in the 1980's into perspective. Many people talk about those 2 scudetti (1987, 1990) with Napoli as if it was some kind of miracle or as if Napoli's squad was comparable to that of Ascoli in those years.

Also, as I wrote, I did not watch football in the 1980's (yet to be born) but I would imagine that the discrepancy in terms of the top clubs and all the rest was much smaller than today hence it being possible for the likes of Hellas Verona to win a scudetto (1985) and Napoli doing it twice with the best footballer in the world of that era.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This is what is a bit stupid for me. Maradona played in Europe for 11 years and won a grand total of 2 league titles.

Aye, David May is better.

What a daft argument.

At no point did Maradona ever play with sides featuring the absolutely insane quality of teammates like Ronaldo or Messi have.

 

[ilrm]

He is currently the 4rd highest international goal scorer of all-time with 88 goals scored

Competitive internationals:
Messi: 47 goals in 114 games or 1 goal every 2.4 games
Maradona: 17 goals in 46 games or 1 goal every 2.7 games
A difference of only 0.3, despite Maradona playing in an era of fewer goals, backpass rule and rougher tackles.

 

[Gehrman]

I am not the least surprised knowing about the Italian tifosi. Verona is a quite beautiful city too.

Anyway my side comment about Hellas Verona and Elkjaer was more to put those 2 Napoli scudetti in the 1980's into perspective. Many people talk about those 2 scudetti (1987, 1990) with Napoli as if it was some kind of miracle or as if Napoli's squad was comparable to that of Ascoli in those years.

Also, as I wrote, I did not watch football in the 1980's (yet to be born) but I would imagine that the discrepancy in terms of the top clubs and all the rest was much smaller than today hence it being possible for the likes of Hellas Verona to win a scudetto (1985) and Napoli doing it twice with the best footballer in the world of that era.

Yeah I understand. I was too young to watch Maradona. I think it's one of those things where you had to be a spectator of that era to appreciate what kind of player he was. Opinon differs though. I have a friend who used to watch the busby babes and later he watched Maradona too and thought he was very overrated due to his lack of consistency. Of course that's just his opinon. I know feck all about how Maradona played on a match to match basis, but since it was between him and Pelé mostly before Messi came along, he must have been something special.