Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

De Portago

Full Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
554
Supports
Red Star
Wonder how the distance covered numbers will look like. Him vs Navas will make for interesting viewing.
Ibrahimovic already beat him there if I recall correctly, he had less distance covered than Victor Valdes in one of those Inter games. :)

Anyways it is questionable whether it is still profitable to let current level Messi walk around doing nothing, and even if it is it's certainly imperative that he be the only one doing that. With Neymar and Mbappe also slacking off they literally play 7 vs 10 for the majority of the game.
 

2mufc0

Everything is fair game in capitalism!
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
15,305
Supports
Dragon of Dojima
He's been lazy for a few years now. You can't carry a total passenger like that against a team like City.
 

JJ12

Predicted Portugal, Italy to win Euro 2016, 2020
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
7,685
Location
Wales
Always said he was overrated. What’s he even achieved.
 

Ekkie Thump

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,727
Supports
Leeds United
Not sure of the reliability of those figures. You can go to uefa.com and work out the actual averages for yourself. Ronaldo - the centre forward - moves an average of 8.1km per 90. Messi, the midfield maestro, moves 8.3. I think the major difference between these two figures is that Messi aimlessly wanders further back towards his goal.
 

Stability

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
166
Supports
Manchester City
He's been lazy and wandering for years, but comes to life when he gets the ball, he wanders into dangerous positions and seems to lull defenders to sleep at times.

It was fine at Barca because the teams were built around him. But stick him alongside two other "superstars" who also just want to attack, and you get a ridiculously lazy front three who sacrifice their teammates to the slaughter against good opposition.

PSG will struggle to get through the next round if they don't draw the winner of United's (sorry) or Lille's groups.
 

VanKenny

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
371
Not sure of the reliability of those figures. You can go to uefa.com and work out the actual averages for yourself. Ronaldo - the centre forward - moves an average of 8.1km per 90. Messi, the midfield maestro, moves 8.3. I think the major difference between these two figures is that Messi aimlessly wanders further back towards his goal.
Great way to define Lionel Messi, "aimlessly wanders around". Imagine if he actually tried then :lol:
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
24,970
Not sure of the reliability of those figures. You can go to uefa.com and work out the actual averages for yourself. Ronaldo - the centre forward - moves an average of 8.1km per 90. Messi, the midfield maestro, moves 8.3. I think the major difference between these two figures is that Messi aimlessly wanders further back towards his goal.
Yep, one is a box player at the business end while Messi plays deeper and naturally has more ground to cover which he doesn’t really do.
That’s a huge difference
 

VanKenny

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
371
I don't have to imagine, I've seen it. That guy was the best player in the world.
He has been criticized for the same for years now, and hes just 6 days away from winning his 7th balon d or. Got the 6th not to long ago either.

He may be lazier now, but the word "aimless" just doesnt fit Messi's description.
 

RedDribble

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Messages
63
Location
Colorado
Supports
Dortmund, Barcelona
One, he should return to Barcelona as soon as possible.
Two, Same as Ronaldo, he needs to accept starting from the bench and only come when needed.
Three, again he also needs to adapt to the team now.

Always said he was overrated. What’s he even achieved.
Don't be ridiculous, he was the best player in history.
 

Ekkie Thump

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,727
Supports
Leeds United
He has been criticized for the same for years now, and hes just 6 days away from winning his 7th balon d or. Got the 6th not to long ago either.

He may be lazier now, but the word "aimless" just doesnt fit Messi's description.
I'll admit I don't see too much of him. I've basically seen him in both games against City and that's it. In both games he just looked disinterested; not showing for passes, not closing down out of possession, just strolling about the middle of the pitch. He's still got such god given ability, though, that when he happens upon the ball he can produce beauties like that goal in the first leg. Once he's got the ball he still ticks, he just doesn't seem particularly arsed in getting it.

Maybe he was still turning it on for Barca and Argentina, but those performances I saw weren't in any way balon material.
 

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
4,294
Supports
Barcelona
Bro I love Messi and for me be is always the GOAT, but he has not been even 20% of himself, and I am not even talking about his peak. Just his form since 2019/29 seaosn.
oh I don’t disagree there, his league form especially has been below par. I just don’t think he was necessarily awful today but then again nobody on psg really shined
 

AjaxCunian

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
1,704
Supports
Ajax & United
I would be surprised to see him go at an opponent for 90 mins now. Completely zoned out for the majority of the match, for years.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
9,839
He's been lazy and wandering for years, but comes to life when he gets the ball, he wanders into dangerous positions and seems to lull defenders to sleep at times.

It was fine at Barca because the teams were built around him. But stick him alongside two other "superstars" who also just want to attack, and you get a ridiculously lazy front three who sacrifice their teammates to the slaughter against good opposition.

PSG will struggle to get through the next round if they don't draw the winner of United's (sorry) or Lille's groups.
If Lille wins the group, PSG can't get Lille. Ban hammer!!!
 

Stability

Full Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
166
Supports
Manchester City
If Lille wins the group, PSG can't get Lille. Ban hammer!!!
Aha, just named whoever was top of the group as its still pretty open, but you're right if it stays as it is I foresee PSG being in trouble with their options in the next round.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
9,839
Aha, just named whoever was top of the group as its still pretty open, but you're right if it stays as it is I foresee PSG being in trouble with their options in the next round.
Cheers. That's why despite this game was unlikely to affect the qualification for both teams from the start, they took the game serious. Second place seems to have a tough tie in the first KO round.

Makes it even weirder that Messi looks so off pace for this game. Expected him to try harder.
 

Oranges038

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
3,044
Looks like all them years of carrying that piss poor Barca team in such a tough league have finally taken their toll.
 

Cloud7

Full Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Messages
8,746
Age has hit him harder than Ronnie and at a younger age

Though I suppose based on their physique it would be expected.
More to do with Ronaldo being exceptional than any issue with Messi IMO. Messi's dropped off at the age I would expect a player to drop off. Ronaldo is an exceptional specimen who has aged better than arguably any other player I've ever seen.
 

T_Model101

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
1,619
Location
London
IIRC correctly his distance travelled stats were very similar in a 5-0 thrashing of Madrid vs a 4/5-0 thrashing of Barca
Didn't Pep always say that every 3rd pass or something needed to go through Messi?
He doesn't get that now at PSG, he's on the periphery of it all
 

Hernandez - BFA

The Way to Fly
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
15,811
Every time he actually had the ball, he looked threatening. Pulled off some good passes and made space well.

But as said previously, he’s just on the periphery of everything. PSG don’t flow their attack through him. Not getting the best out of him.
It’s a shame to see it.
 

Ockham

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2019
Messages
10
Supports
Barcelona
Are you really saying Arsenal is a legendary team ?! :lol::lol::lol:
Messi's 2009-2012 Barca is probably the best team in history, so your examples are not quite on par.
Barcelona 2011-2012 is the best team that ever played that is correct but Messi has continued to score against the best english teams long after that era. There are to my knowledge no striker/forward that are anywhere near to equal Messis goalscoring ratio against the PL big six and there are a few forwards out there that has been playing for decent clubs like Ronaldo, Salah, Kane for example. In fact Messi is even ranked 5th best goalscorer overall against PL big six clubs of all now active players despite not even having played a single PL-, FA-cup, or EFL-game.

Furthermore you keep forgetting that there were only two reasons for why Barcelona dominated football in that era and one of them was Lionel Messi. The other reason is now practically the only difference for why City is lightyears ahead of United.
To give you an idea how vital Messi has been for Barcelona. Xavi and Iniesta combined made 323 assists in 1441 games played for Barcelona. Messi made 404 assists in 786 games. I will break it down to you. Messi made FAR MORE assists than two of the best midfielders in football history and he did it playing almost 700 games LESS than they did. And by the way, he also scored some goals, like around 672 of them.

Furthermore Messi has had the highest seasonrating at whoscored.com EVERY SINGLE SEASON since 2009/2010 when whoscored.com was launched. That is pure statistics from all the big leagues and surely you cannot state that Barca has had a bigger advantage in their domestic league every single year since 2009/2010 than Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG, City or Liverpool has had?

No player has per game scored more goals on his own (no assists), no player has more successful dribbles, no player has more freekick goals, no player has more through passes, no more player has more assists and no more player has more goals. You would have to be a really, really special kind of stupid to think that any topclub forward could have copied those stats if they just had played for Barcelona in the last 12 years and the cold night in Stoke-argument is even dumber.

That being said. Messi anno 2021/2022 is both lazy and is getting old which means he hasn't the speed he used to have and he sure as hell haven't tried to use the speed he still has especially often the last 3 years or so. He is going to be a liability for PSG since that kind of workrate is unacceptable for a forward in a footballworld which is dominated by coaches like Klopp, Guardiola and ten Hag. Messi will surely make some vital goals and assists but I doubt that will be enough to see PSG win the CL.

I also think that Messis, by his standards, mostly poor performances in PSG also depends on Pochettino. He is a good guy but he allows the players to have a lethargic playing style very much the same as United has practised the last 5-6 years. Unless you have players that have cojones, fighting spirit and a pressing game in themselves you have to demand it from them otherwise you won't win games often enough. Cavani is the only offensive player in United that has what it takes in that department and that is also why United just have lost one game with Cavani starting (Liverpool last season, United won shots and possession though). I don't count Roma away since it was 2-2 when Cavani got subbed and he had scored both goals. Passengers like Ronaldo is well worth having as long as they have that goal scoring capabilities but unless a coach can get the other offensive players to press and constantly do smart runs you cannot win titles in modern football. So Pochettino would be a very very bad choice for United. In fact almost as bad as Ole since both have their inability to control big player egos as a key weakness.
 
Last edited:

lawliet354

Full Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Messages
1,378
Location
Uncomfortable chair
Every time he actually had the ball, he looked threatening. Pulled off some good passes and made space well.

But as said previously, he’s just on the periphery of everything. PSG don’t flow their attack through him. Not getting the best out of him.
It’s a shame to see it.
Looks completely lost interest with club football, I think he still works really hard for Argentina. Imo he'll probably retire after WC
 

Daysleeper

Full Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
4,294
Supports
Barcelona
He's been lazy for a few years now. You can't carry a total passenger like that against a team like City.
And yet he scored against city last time when they beat them.

but he absolutely needs to press more, I agree
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
15,474
Location
Inside right
He doesn't look far off packing it all in. He's going through the motions, but that fire he used to have looks like it's reserved for his NT now.

Magic can always be just an action away, but forcibly inserting into games that aren't being funnelled through him seems to be the last thing on his mind. It also doesn't help that Neymar and Mbappé are not trying to take their lead from Messi as playmaker.

He needs tactic to revolve around him and Pochettino is coming up short in integrating that aspect
 

Lebo

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
218
This is not something new in Messis career. He doesn’t play that well if the team is not dominant position wise. Stick him in that city team and the entire premier league will complain. I’m not even sure why people keep on arguing otherwise that he needs a certain system to function
 

giorno

Full Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
20,046
Supports
Real Madrid
Can't believe i'm doing this....

This isn't FIFA. He's 34, never had much stamina to begin with, even in his early 20s

What do you want him to use his energy to do, attack or defend? He can't do both for more than ~30 minutes, maybe...

PS: same goes for Cristiano btw
 

Real Name

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2020
Messages
2,187
Furthermore Messi has had the highest seasonrating at whoscored.com EVERY SINGLE SEASON since 2009/2010 when whoscored.com was launched. That is pure statistics from all the big leagues and surely you cannot state that Barca has had a bigger advantage in their domestic league every single year since 2009/2010 than Bayern, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG, City or Liverpool has had?
That settles it then.
 

Lord SInister

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
2,293
Location
where grasses are green and girls are pretty
That settles it then.
No but it just gives an idea that Messi dominated every aspect of attacking football from key passes to goals to assists to dribbles to chance creation for more than 10 years, whether he had Xavi or Iniesta or Neymar or Suarez or Dani Alves, or if he didn't had any of them. He still was the same player, yes he had lesser goals post them, but when a player is almost the sole source of creativity, his goal scoring stats drop, which is natural, as seen with his Argentina career, where he has good goals stats, but not Barcelona Messi level. But you look at his Argentina creativity and dribbling stats, and you will see he is still dominating those stats.

The very idea that Messi is shit without Pep or Xavi/Iniesta, is what being refuted by those stats. Ofcourse with them he reached other worldly goal stats, but even without them, his other aspects of the game never really dropped nor was he ever dependant on them for those things. Ofcourse for winning the whole damn thing he needs better teammates or at least functional teammates (like his recent Argentina team, which has no superstar barring Di Maria, but everyone else have great functionality) who do not drop their pants when Messi is having an off day. And that is true for every great player.

And it isn't just with Barcelona.
Messi has also dominated all of those stats with Argentina. He has had the most number of assists in the same time(2010 onwards) period in international football, and another unverified stat is he has had the most chance created during the same period more than any other player, although that is unverified, so let's leave it.


Just take the recent Copa America as an example, he dominated all the attacking stats the whole tournament before his semi final injury. And he still was the same lazy Messi, who does nothing but stroll in the field when he doesn't have the ball. He was the same lazy ass in 2012 whether scoring 91 goals or when he lost the ball and didn't even made an attempt to win back the ball, which led to Chelsea win the 2011/12 UCL or in 2015 when he destroyed every champion team in Europe or in years post when he dominated the first leg and than in the next leg, his team's folded like any female pornstar in front of Johnny Sins. He was still the same Messi, strolling in the park, just analysing things.