AltiUn
likes playing with swords after fantasies
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2014
- Messages
- 18,862
Pot calling the kettle there mate.His team is in shambles too though and he may not even be playing CL football next year depending on how the season goes.
Pot calling the kettle there mate.His team is in shambles too though and he may not even be playing CL football next year depending on how the season goes.
I don't share your opinion.Zehner said:
He never ran much and was always a player to burst to life in the right moments. The problem is if you pair that with Neymar and Mbappe who play the same way these days. You can't have three players like that to carry around.
It's a bit surreal to watch. One might think they see themselves that this won't work, especially when in contrast to City's collective work ethic and in Messi's case having played under Guardiola as well.
Yeah but atleast one can still call himself world class at 34… I mean he can do at nearly 37 while the other looks dog shit in a farmers leagueHis team is in shambles too though and he may not even be playing CL football next year depending on how the season goes.
One is on his way to 7th Ballon D'or at the age of 34, the other is not even a top 5 candidate (won his last Ballon 5 years ago and probably will never see the podium again).Yeah but atleast one can still call himself world class at 34… I mean he can do at nearly 37 while the other looks dog shit in a farmers league
Looks at the quality of the league, the players he’s currently playing with…Maybe he's unhappy, and the injury can't have helped. Must be difficult at a professional level when you've spent your entire footballing life growing through a single system and then move to a new setup in a new country during your declining years. I'm not setting up my violin or anything but its got to be harder to adapt when those are your prior circumstances.
Well yeah, for sure he should be doing a lot better than he is. I'm looking for reasons he isn't. Can't believe Father Time's chopped his legs off overnight.Looks at the quality of the league, the players he’s currently playing with…
Yeah nah
He’s pacing himself for a big year next year.Well yeah, for sure he should be doing a lot better than he is. I'm looking for reasons he isn't. Can't believe Father Time's chopped his legs off overnight.
He has renewed energy everytime he sleeps. He's pacing himself to retire faster.He’s pacing himself for a big year next year.
Dumb take, Messi has overall had a better 2021 than Ronaldo. Ronaldo struggles against the top 6 as he’s gotten older.Yeah but atleast one can still call himself world class at 34… I mean he can do at nearly 37 while the other looks dog shit in a farmers league
Messi aint scoring that many goals though, that’s why the criticism is coming. You can be lazy as feck if you keep producing lots of goals. If he can pick up there, people will shut up quick enough.I don’t understand why all the sudden criticism on Messi (or Ronaldo) on their lack of pressing or being lazy on the pitch. When a player has same talent as they do, and scoring that many goals and being so dominating, surely you wouldn’t want to waste their energy on doing those dirty works?
This is true but the key is winning the big trophies. That’s the only way to actually silence haters. And even then only until the next season…..Messi aint scoring that many goals though, that’s why the criticism is coming. You can be lazy as feck if you keep producing lots of goals. If he can pick up there, people will shut up quick enough.
Some say the sleeping gives him sexual powersHe has renewed energy everytime he sleeps. He's pacing himself to retire faster.
What is that supposed to mean?I'm not sure, are you a fan of his?
What's not to understand?What is that supposed to mean?
One fan lamenting another. Strange days indeeeeed.What is that supposed to mean?
Messi is about to get another one in the Ballon Dor lead, and United are worse than PSG, so not really.Ronaldo must be loving it. His biggest difference with Messi is his adaptation and probably, it's a good time to appreciate the former.
It's why I disbelieve this "Messi is now Old Crap"Messi is about to get another one in the Ballon Dor lead, and United are worse than PSG, so not really.
What a load of crap. Just because Juve suck donkey balls when he was there does not make him bad. Remember the ridiculous Ronaldo holding Juve back ? How are your team doing without him by the way. He should have won in 2018 instead of Modric.One is on his way to 7th Ballon D'or at the age of 34, the other is not even a top 5 candidate (won his last Ballon 5 years ago and probably will never see the podium again).
The league level isn't amazing but it sure has one thing that can be a problem for him in his current fitness, physicality.Looks at the quality of the league, the players he’s currently playing with…
Yeah nah
They’ll get betterI think anybody thinking he's finished are being desperate or ignorant. Although he's part of the problem, the way Psg play is the main reason. Even Neymar is not playing as good as before. The two times I've seen Psg have a good game Messi was arguably the best player.
What gives you that impressionThey’ll get better
It’s natural. They’re already winning despite mostly playing terribly. It’s a work in progress. We’ll see the best of this team next year. I’ve always said that.What gives you that impression
Relax dude, your boy isn't performing well, it wasn't gonna go on forever. Listen to some sad songs, read some sad love poetry and cry your eyes out. We're nearing the end of an era.Thiago Silva had to deal with the league thing for years, then he goes to the so-called "best league in the world" and barely concedes a goal way past his peak. To hear some people 5 years ago, he wasn't an elite defender because he played in Ligue 1. The best players are the best players. It doesn't matter that Messi is in Ligue 1. I expect Ronaldo to be there in a year or two anyway.
It's mad how a defender like Thiago Silva has become an excuse for an attacker like Messi.Relax dude, your boy isn't performing well, it wasn't gonna go on forever. Listen to some sad songs, read some sad love poetry and cry your eyes out. We're nearing the end of an era.
Messi and Ronaldo were never like Roberto Firmino but they once pressed way more than they do now. They didn't do a lot but they did enough not to be complete liabilities. Messi did once press for Guardiola. In 2009-10, he had an average of 1.2 interceptions per game. Now it's 0.3. He averaged 0.9 tackles per game, now it's 0.2. Ronaldo averaged 0.7 interceptions per game in 2011/12, now it's 0.1.b) Football has evolved and the days of the divas have finally passed. Tuchel's performance at Chelsea seems to imply this. Anyway, this would also mean that teams like Pep's Barca wouldn't compete these days either, because this one also carried Messi's low work rate.
My recollection is that Messi used to press a lot in the Pep team. That was a pressing team.Messi and Ronaldo were never like Roberto Firmino but they once pressed way more than they do now. They didn't do a lot but they did enough not to be complete liabilities. Messi did once press for Guardiola. In 2009-10, he had an average of 1.2 interceptions per game. Now it's 0.3. He averaged 0.9 tackles per game, now it's 0.2. Ronaldo averaged 0.7 interceptions per game in 2011/12, now it's 0.1.
I can't find the pressures stats from back then but looking at Messi's pressing stats since 2017-18, he had 413 pressures, then it went down to 324, then 287. Now it's 42 (still early in the season, but probably end up 250 odd). So it is a gradual decline with age.
Yeah, when it comes to failures it is all teams', managers' fault at Juve, United, Portugal, Ronaldo is blameless. Most Juve fans are happy that he finally left, the main concern was him leaving for free and luckily we found United ready to pay for him. Juve significantly regressed with him just like United now. I see even many United fans complaining about Ronaldo's negative effect on United performance on this very forum, but you can continue to ignore their views as well. He had 5 managers in the last 3.5 years, but of course he is blameless again as usual. Just because he scored against La Liga 13th Villareal, Swiss giants Young Boys, and Atalanta with 5-6 main players missing is not that impressive tbh unless obviously you are a Ronaldo fan.. At PL, he is struggling (a single goal in the last 7 games) being especially unable to score against top sides as usual.. Oh, and that game vs Serbia with a superior Portugal was a complete disaster, but of course he has no part in that failure as well..What a load of crap. Just because Juve suck donkey balls when he was there does not make him bad. Remember the ridiculous Ronaldo holding Juve back ? How are your team doing without him by the way. He should have won in 2018 instead of Modric.
Messi and Ronaldo were never like Roberto Firmino but they once pressed way more than they do now. They didn't do a lot but they did enough not to be complete liabilities. Messi did once press for Guardiola. In 2009-10, he had an average of 1.2 interceptions per game. Now it's 0.3. He averaged 0.9 tackles per game, now it's 0.2. Ronaldo averaged 0.7 interceptions per game in 2011/12, now it's 0.1.
I can't find the pressures stats from back then but looking at Messi's pressing stats since 2017-18, he had 413 pressures, then it went down to 324, then 287. Now it's 42 (still early in the season, but probably end up 250 odd). So it is a gradual decline with age.
Messi never ran much. Here's for instance an article from 2014 about a game in which he ran 6.8 km. His season average in 2014 (8.2) was below the distance covered against City (8.3). It's always been a stick to beat him with when his teams lost. There were always many arguments that defended him, this article provides quite a good overview. Some of them: He doesn't cover large distances but he makes more fast runs and sprints than most. Or that he does it to get into better positions and that it is actually anticipation. Many players have to learn to run less during their developing years to become more effective, it's actually quite a common theme.My recollection is that Messi used to press a lot in the Pep team. That was a pressing team.
The walking around and not pressing began only a few years ago.
Fair enough. I feel like though around 2013-14 he stopped running partly as well because of a health problem, he was vomiting a lot after games if I remember and seemed a little bit off for a year or so. Then by 2015 he was somewhat back to his best and started running more again. But young Messi from around 2010 did run quite a bit more.Messi never ran much. Here's for instance an article from 2014 about a game in which he ran 6.8 km. His season average in 2014 (8.2) was below the distance covered against City (8.3). It's always been a stick to beat him with when his teams lost. There were always many arguments that defended him, this article provides quite a good overview. Some of them: He doesn't cover large distances but he makes more fast runs and sprints than most. Or that he does it to get into better positions and that it is actually anticipation. Many players have to learn to run less during their developing years to become more effective, it's actually quite a common theme.
In summary, the line of argument was always that Messi moved less but still got into enough positions: His pressing stats were good, he got into enoug goal scoring positions and so forth. Currently neither of this is the case. His pressures per game dropped significantly and he also gets on the ball less frequently in dangerous areas. But this doesn't necessarily have to do with his work rate, it might also have to do with the team shape, tactic, cohesion etc. Of course it is harder for him to "get a grip" on an opponent player carrying the ball or intercepting a pass when there are two other players on the pitch who do as few as him or even less in Mbappe's case.
I guess the stats that would really help to paint a clearer picture are fast runs, sprints, etc. and compare them to previous seasons. I doubt that his stats in these areas are much worse than they used to be because his distance covered remained largely the same throughout all those years. So if he reduced the intensity, this would mean that he would have moved more by walking/jogging etc. and that doesn't seem to be the case.
As far as I know the vomitting occurred throughout his entire early career. As far as I know, he changed his diet around that time. Messi said himself that he was eating lots of junk food up until this point in time. Back then there were also stories of how the birth of his second son made him more professional etc.Fair enough. I feel like though around 2013-14 he stopped running partly as well because of a health problem, he was vomiting a lot after games if I remember and seemed a little bit off for a year or so. Then by 2015 he was somewhat back to his best and started running more again. But young Messi from around 2010 did run quite a bit more.
I also think there is a type of greed in the way they play at the moment too, not really helping their team-mates, for example in Ronaldo's case, he never gets injured.It's not about age, it's about tactics and team cohesion, IMO. Ironically, I also think that the "greed" of players like Messi, Neymar and Cristiano actually prevented them from having even better careers. Because in the end, the teams that played the best football as a collective in the past 3-4 years (Liverpool, Bayern, City, Chelsea) can't afford them.