Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

[Adisa]

That's not true actually, some of the Normal defending of then would get you immediately sent if now.

Tackling is not what's used to define more physical. Football is faster, more intense and more athletic.

 

[Red the Bear]

Tackling is not what's used to define more physical. Football is faster, more intense and more athletic.

There's a lot more running but its not more *physical * per say.

 

[Based Adnan]

4 goals in ligue 1 is shocking stuff

 

[Sayros]

Yeah and quite clearly him hitting the crossbar had nothing to do with the rest of your post. You snuck it in because you wanted it known not because it added to your later point.

Like I said, you're not getting it. People have tried to used those crossbar shots as making it seem not as bad as it is and Pochettino/Messi have been unlucky, I'm saying those crossbar shots and his four league goals for a xG in the single digits tells me the problem is more with the overall coaching of the team, of which the collective xG since Poch took over and even before Messi came in dropped drastically compared to his predecessors. But you just saw the first part and read what you wanted to read, not what I actually wrote.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I completely missed the vs thread had been closed. Why? I mean, it was clear the discussion will just conquer other threads then

I imagine 90% of your reason for being on the caf is gone now
No offense

 

[Zehner]

I imagine 90% of your reason for being on the caf is gone now
No offense

Actually I'm disappointed because I restrained myself recently and hoped a few of the other lunatics would suprass my post count

Anyway, with the Messi brigade closed I still got the Bundesliga Protection Alliance so I'll be fine I guess.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It really doesn't. Maradona's Hand of God shirt just sold for £7m. He was basically finished by age 30. The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that longevity is not the key thing. It's important for contemporaries, but not posterity.

But that is because Maradona had iconic GOAT performance in WC. I doubt people would be paying 7m for Messi’s shirt on his game against Espanyol (his own version of hand of god).

 

[Lord SInister]

But that is because Maradona had iconic GOAT performance in WC. I doubt people would be paying 7m for Messi’s shirt on his game against Espanyol (his own version of hand of god).

But his shirt which he lifted against Real Madrid might be sold for more

 

[Andrade]

But that is because Maradona had iconic GOAT performance in WC. I doubt people would be paying 7m for Messi’s shirt on his game against Espanyol (his own version of hand of god).

That's a poor analogy, I'm afraid. The shirt is iconic not just because of the handball but because of the other goal, which is probably the greatest goal of all time and certainly superior to any goal that Ronaldo has ever scored of his 800. Messi has scored several comparable goals but not in the World Cup against England in the shadow of a real conflict between the two nations, and so they are not as great. Context matters.

Moreover, Maradona is who he is because of what he did at his peak for Argentina and Napoli, not because he played a thousand games and scored 800 goals. That's the point. He did enough in a six year period to become an icon. No one is concerned about what he did post 30 at Sevilla or Newells or Boca in his second stint.

 

[Gehrman]

But that is because Maradona had iconic GOAT performance in WC. I doubt people would be paying 7m for Messi’s shirt on his game against Espanyol (his own version of hand of god).

They would probably pay more for Messi's shirt in the game where he scored a solo goal vs Madrid in the CL semi finals. And yeah the one where he scored the late winner in the classico and held up his shirt to the Madrid fans.

 

[RedRonaldo]

That's a poor analogy, I'm afraid. The shirt is iconic not just because of the handball but because of the other goal, which is probably the greatest goal of all time and certainly superior to any goal that Ronaldo has ever scored of his 800. Messi has scored several comparable goals but not in the World Cup against England in the shadow of a real conflict between the two nations, and so they are not as great. Context matters.

Moreover, Maradona is who he is because of what he did at his peak for Argentina and Napoli, not because he played a thousand games and scored 800 goals. That's the point. He did enough in a six year period to become an icon. No one is concerned about what he did post 30 at Sevilla or Newells or Boca in his second stint.

They would probably pay more for Messi's shirt in the game where he scored a solo goal vs Madrid in the CL semi finals. And yeah the one where he scored the late winner in the classico and held up his shirt to the Madrid fans.

Well that was meant to be a joke.

But the reason why people value Maradona 86 WC vs England shirt so much, is because it’s probably one of the most iconic moment in football history, in a game where a player has reached probably the highest peak the football world have ever seen, in most prestigious stage. And the shirt represent/captures that very moment.

This has nothing to do with Maradonna vs Messi vs Ronaldo argument. And there’s no specific moment Messi or Ronaldo has done which equals that iconic moment anyway, even though they might have better career overall.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Well that was meant to be a joke.

But the reason why people value Maradona 86 WC vs England shirt so much, is because it’s probably one of the most iconic moment in football history, in a game where a player has reached probably the highest peak the football world have ever seen, in most prestigious stage. And the shirt represent/captures that very moment.

This has nothing to do with Maradonna vs Messi vs Ronaldo argument. And there’s no specific moment Messi or Ronaldo has done which equals that iconic moment anyway, even though they might have better career overall.

If Maradona scored that goal today, my guess is that it wouldn't be iconic at all and there would be more people questioning the ref than hyping the goal. Nostalgia helps and there are a lot of things we take for granted from both Ronaldo and Messi that will be seen from a different perspective in a few decades.

Putting aside talent / natural talent because there's no real way of measuring that, what Ronaldo and Messi did and achieved was unprecedented and completely reshaped the way people saw the game in terms of what was possible. For me, that alone makes them the 2 greatest players to ever play the game (I don't mean the best players to ever play the game, that's a completely different argument).

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

If Maradona scored that goal today, my guess is that it wouldn't be iconic at all and there would be more people questioning the ref than hyping the goal. Nostalgia helps and there are a lot of things we take for granted from both Ronaldo and Messi that will be seen from a different perspective in a few decades.

Putting aside talent / natural talent because there's no real way of measuring that, what Ronaldo and Messi did and achieved was unprecedented and completely reshaped the way people saw the game in terms of what was possible. For me, that alone makes them the 2 greatest players to ever play the game (I don't mean the best players to ever play the game, that's a completely different argument).

Pele has a greatness argument that probably betters both of them.

His national team career doesn't have the blemishes that Ronaldo's and Messi's does.

 

[RedRonaldo]

If Maradona scored that goal today, my guess is that it wouldn't be iconic at all and there would be more people questioning the ref than hyping the goal. Nostalgia helps and there are a lot of things we take for granted from both Ronaldo and Messi that will be seen from a different perspective in a few decades.

Putting aside talent / natural talent because there's no real way of measuring that, what Ronaldo and Messi did and achieved was unprecedented and completely reshaped the way people saw the game in terms of what was possible. For me, that alone makes them the 2 greatest players to ever play the game (I don't mean the best players to ever play the game, that's a completely different argument).

Well it’s the kind of goal every player could only dream of scoring in WC.

And its not like it’s just a fluke or anything. Given the context that Maradona was by far the best player in the world in that tournament, and had “single-handedly” won the WC for his country, with 5 goals 5 assists in 7 games, and avg 8 dribbles per game, which was a WC record itself. It’s truly phenomenal, and it’s simply the best performance ever in any major tournament. The goal itself is the epitome of his whole brilliant solo performance.

Aside from that goal, he also scored the most controversy goal in football history with “hand of god”, in the same very match. That game itself would be iconic no matter which angle you look at it from.

 

[Zehner]

That's a poor analogy, I'm afraid. The shirt is iconic not just because of the handball but because of the other goal, which is probably the greatest goal of all time and certainly superior to any goal that Ronaldo has ever scored of his 800. Messi has scored several comparable goals but not in the World Cup against England in the shadow of a real conflict between the two nations, and so they are not as great. Context matters.

Moreover, Maradona is who he is because of what he did at his peak for Argentina and Napoli, not because he played a thousand games and scored 800 goals. That's the point. He did enough in a six year period to become an icon. No one is concerned about what he did post 30 at Sevilla or Newells or Boca in his second stint.

Exactly. I don't really care about longevity. Ronaldinho had a short peak and to me still is a greater player than someone like, say, Ibrahimovic or Benzema who did it over a much longer time frame.

If Maradona scored that goal today, my guess is that it wouldn't be iconic at all and there would be more people questioning the ref than hyping the goal. Nostalgia helps and there are a lot of things we take for granted from both Ronaldo and Messi that will be seen from a different perspective in a few decades.

Putting aside talent / natural talent because there's no real way of measuring that, what Ronaldo and Messi did and achieved was unprecedented and completely reshaped the way people saw the game in terms of what was possible. For me, that alone makes them the 2 greatest players to ever play the game (I don't mean the best players to ever play the game, that's a completely different argument).

It wasn't unprecedented. Not even Messi's incredible combination of playmaking and goal scoring. I don't know why people always feel the need to say they're the two greatest or that what they did had never happened before. There have been players who are much more a pioneer than those two (Cruyff, Pelé, Beckenbauer, ...) which is logical considering that football had already been around for quite some time when Ronaldo started his professional career.

Moreover, no players in history had the luxury of playing in such strong teams with such economic advantages over the competitors before them. I think this context is ignored far too often when people speak about their incomparable goal records. So it doesn't make sense to look at their statistics and compare them with those of their predecessors.

 

[Andrade]

If Maradona scored that goal today, my guess is that it wouldn't be iconic at all and there would be more people questioning the ref than hyping the goal. Nostalgia helps and there are a lot of things we take for granted from both Ronaldo and Messi that will be seen from a different perspective in a few decades.

Putting aside talent / natural talent because there's no real way of measuring that, what Ronaldo and Messi did and achieved was unprecedented and completely reshaped the way people saw the game in terms of what was possible. For me, that alone makes them the 2 greatest players to ever play the game (I don't mean the best players to ever play the game, that's a completely different argument).

I agree with @Zehner here, they're both all time greats, but what have they done that is unprecedented? Please explain.

 

[Pickle85]

They would probably pay more for Messi's shirt in the game where he scored a solo goal vs Madrid in the CL semi finals. And yeah the one where he scored the late winner in the classico and held up his shirt to the Madrid fans.

Do you really think people would pay more for those than for the shirt being worn for one of the most iconic moments in football history? I'm sceptical.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Exactly. I don't really care about longevity. Ronaldinho had a short peak and to me still is a greater player than someone like, say, Ibrahimovic or Benzema who did it over a much longer time frame.



It wasn't unprecedented. Not even Messi's incredible combination of playmaking and goal scoring. I don't know why people always feel the need to say they're the two greatest or that what they did had never happened before. There have been players who are much more a pioneer than those two (Cruyff, Pelé, Beckenbauer, ...) which is logical considering that football had already been around for quite some time when Ronaldo started his professional career.

Moreover, no players in history had the luxury of playing in such strong teams with such economic advantages over the competitors before them. I think this context is ignored far too often when people speak about their incomparable goal records. So it doesn't make sense to look at their statistics and compare them with those of their predecessors.

Their numbers maybe somewhat inflated, but to claim no players in history had such luxury is somewhat untrue. For example, at the very least, their teammates or players before them also had same luxury at some point too - Neymar, Suarez, Benzema, Bale, Robben, Kaka, Di Maria, Henry, Etoo, Ronaldinho, Raul, L.Ronaldo, Ruud etc.

 

[Gehrman]

Do you really think people would pay more for those than for the shirt being worn for one of the most iconic moments in football history? I'm sceptical.

Depends on the buyer. I'm surprised maradonnas shirt didn't go for more in today's market.

 

[Gehrman]

Their numbers maybe somewhat inflated, but to claim no players in history had such luxury is somewhat untrue. For example, at the very least, their teammates or players before them also had same luxury at some point too - Neymar, Suarez, Benzema, Bale, Robben, Kaka, Di Maria, Henry, Etoo, Ronaldinho, Raul, L.Ronaldo, Ruud etc.

I get Zehner's point but I'm inclined to agree with this post.

 

[Gehrman]

Exactly. I don't really care about longevity. Ronaldinho had a short peak and to me still is a greater player than someone like, say, Ibrahimovic or Benzema who did it over a much longer time frame.



It wasn't unprecedented. Not even Messi's incredible combination of playmaking and goal scoring. I don't know why people always feel the need to say they're the two greatest or that what they did had never happened before. There have been players who are much more a pioneer than those two (Cruyff, Pelé, Beckenbauer, ...) which is logical considering that football had already been around for quite some time when Ronaldo started his professional career.

Moreover, no players in history had the luxury of playing in such strong teams with such economic advantages over the competitors before them. I think this context is ignored far too often when people speak about their incomparable goal records. So it doesn't make sense to look at their statistics and compare them with those of their predecessors.

I agree it's not unprecedented, you only say it's unprecedented in the modern era of football, but that might be irrelevant but the standard of football is higher now. Do you know why? Harry Maguire was sold to us for 85 mil. That's the benchmark!

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Moreover, no players in history had the luxury of playing in such strong teams with such economic advantages over the competitors before them. I think this context is ignored far too often when people speak about their incomparable goal records. So it doesn't make sense to look at their statistics and compare them with those of their predecessors.

Yep, peak Ronaldo-Messi goalscoring was one of the most lopsided top leagues in the history of football. All the best players in the league at one point almost position for position and the bench were playing for the two top teams, and a few players were paid the equivalent of other team salaries. A 39 point gap between 3rd and 1st in 2011/12? A 30 point gap between 2nd and 3rd? The winning team scoring 121 goals, the 2nd team scoring 114 goals, the 3rd team scoring only 59 goals? That's a broken league when that happens.

 

[Gehrman]

Yep, peak Ronaldo-Messi goalscoring was one of the most lopsided top leagues in the history of football. All the best players in the league at one point almost position for position and the bench were playing for the two top teams, and a few players were paid the equivalent of other team salaries. A 39 point gap between 3rd and 1st in 2011/12? A 30 point gap between 2nd and 3rd? The winning team scoring 121 goals, the 2nd team scoring 114 goals, the 3rd team scoring only 59 goals? That's a broken league when that happens.

Still both Messi and Ronaldo have mental stats against the best teams in Spain Especially against Atletico Madrid. Of course you always put it down to the super team thing though. Both have made the best defenders in world look ordinary.

 

[frostbite]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/12/lionel-messi-saudi-arabia-deal-tourism

Lionel Messi earned $122m last year. He still felt the need to take Saudi money

The Argentinian has a strong record of linking up with oppressive monarchies. He is fast becoming the posterboy for sportswashing

Less than a year after signing with Paris Saint-Germain – one of Qatar’s most prominent sportswashing projects – Lionel Messi is now the face of yet another oppressive Middle Eastern monarchy.

The Argentinian was unveiled as the latest tourism ambassador for Saudi Arabia during a trip to Jeddah, a port city along the Red Sea, on Monday.

 

[Gehrman]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/12/lionel-messi-saudi-arabia-deal-tourism

Lionel Messi earned $122m last year. He still felt the need to take Saudi money

The Argentinian has a strong record of linking up with oppressive monarchies. He is fast becoming the posterboy for sportswashing

Less than a year after signing with Paris Saint-Germain – one of Qatar’s most prominent sportswashing projects – Lionel Messi is now the face of yet another oppressive Middle Eastern monarchy.

The Argentinian was unveiled as the latest tourism ambassador for Saudi Arabia during a trip to Jeddah, a port city along the Red Sea, on Monday.

Barca players have always had the moral highground.

 

[AndySmith1990]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/12/lionel-messi-saudi-arabia-deal-tourism

Lionel Messi earned $122m last year. He still felt the need to take Saudi money

The Argentinian has a strong record of linking up with oppressive monarchies. He is fast becoming the posterboy for sportswashing

Less than a year after signing with Paris Saint-Germain – one of Qatar’s most prominent sportswashing projects – Lionel Messi is now the face of yet another oppressive Middle Eastern monarchy.

The Argentinian was unveiled as the latest tourism ambassador for Saudi Arabia during a trip to Jeddah, a port city along the Red Sea, on Monday.

Never ceases to amaze me how rich people are always so desperate to continue getting richer.

 

[Gehrman]

Never ceases to amaze me how rich people are always so desperate to continue getting richer.

It's probably addictive

 

[tenpoless]

From buff doge to crying cheems.......
Richer though that's for sure.

 

[Pretzels81]

Never ceases to amaze me how rich people are always so desperate to continue getting richer.

No, he's just an enthusiast in medieval studies and an expert in the Rashidun Caliphate; makes perfect sense.

 

[SportingCP96]

Messi to MLS next season has been “confirmed”. Crazy that next season will be his last in Europe but I can’t say I am surprised.

We all Know he would be “retired” before Ronaldo and due to his massive decline going to MLS was always the most logical move.

Think this opens up the door for Ronaldo to come to Sporting after United.

 

[genardk]

Messi to MLS next season has been “confirmed”. Crazy that next season will be his last in Europe but I can’t say I am surprised.

We all Know he would be “retired” before Ronaldo and due to his massive decline going to MLS was always the most logical move.

Think this opens up the door for Ronaldo to come to Sporting after United.

We all knew he would retire with more Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, world's best playmaker awards, most league top goal scorer awards, more MVP awards in international tournaments than any other player with nobody coming close, so it's logical for him to retire after a final shot at the WC & CL..

 

[SportingCP96]

We all knew he would retire with more Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, world's best playmaker awards, most league top goal scorer awards, more MVP awards in international tournaments than any other player with nobody coming close, so it's logical for him to retire after a final shot at the WC & CL..

I’m not gunna lie my dude, your freaking weird.

Nobody is having a Ronaldo V Messi debate right now hence I commented on the Messi thread of his MLS move.

It’s ok that your guy is going to MLS, he can’t keep it up on Europe and that’s fine, it’s called aging.


You are like listening to music on repeat, you say the same dam thing every single time, it’s just….weird.

 

[PaulAlwaysScholesAGoal]

We all knew he would retire with more Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, world's best playmaker awards, most league top goal scorer awards, more MVP awards in international tournaments than any other player with nobody coming close, so it's logical for him to retire after a final shot at the WC & CL..

Did you just get preemptively super defensive over a post that wasn't even attacking Messi?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We all knew he would retire with more Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, world's best playmaker awards, most league top goal scorer awards, more MVP awards in international tournaments than any other player with nobody coming close, so it's logical for him to retire after a final shot at the WC & CL..

You’re a bit odd.

Where has this MLS move been confirmed by the way?

 

[SportingCP96]

You’re a bit odd.

Where has this MLS move been confirmed by the way?

Fox soccer is reporting it, Messi will have a 35% stake in the club as well!

He will join end of next season but the contract is being signed this August.

 

[Lay]

Fox soccer is reporting it, Messi will have a 35% stake in the club as well!

He will join end of next season but the contract is being signed this August.

I haven’t looked much into it but last I saw it was denied

 

[wr8_utd]

Fox soccer is reporting it, Messi will have a 35% stake in the club as well!

He will join end of next season but the contract is being signed this August.

Not really surprised. The WC is probably the last time we'll see a motivated Messi.

 

[SportingCP96]

I haven’t looked much into it but last I saw it was denied

Seen his agent deny it now but fox soccer is pretty credible, it probably got announced prematurely and they didn’t want that.

Let’s see what happens though. Where their is smoke their is most certainly fire.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Fox soccer is reporting it, Messi will have a 35% stake in the club as well!

Incredible deal for him if it turns out to be true.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

We all knew he would retire with more Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, world's best playmaker awards, most league top goal scorer awards, more MVP awards in international tournaments than any other player with nobody coming close, so it's logical for him to retire after a final shot at the WC & CL..

You’re a very strange individual.