I remember very well when the main debate was Pele v Maradona, and it was as passionate a battle as Messi v Ronaldo to be honest, maybe more so.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
How's the bump going? Pretty sure you can delete your bookmark.
Wow, you’ve got me there, it turns out he’s in love with your club after all.
Absolutely mental. 2008 and 2009. People who were 12 years old then are 25 now.
You played the bookmark game, you lost. Own it.
Season: 25 goal involvements in 34 games [11G+14A]. And according to opta, has hit the woodwork a record no. of times[10+].
Not a successful season by any measure, but not as disastrous as is made out to be, due to the fact that he had a start stop season with regards to fitness.
Not a successful season by any measure, but not as disastrous as is made out to be, due to the fact that he had a start stop season with regards to fitness.
Nowhere to be seen in the big games. I don't like the term but this is exactly what statpadding is. That goal against City in the group stage is all basically.
He looks so sluggish on the ball. His dribbling has started looking laboured. Finishing has declined too. Same with his free kick. Shockingly steep decline.
Mbappe’s first job will be showing this fraud the door. Hehe.
It's been very poor really considering the expectations despite his age and all. For a more average player it would be decent. There is really no spinning it as something other than a disappointment.
Messi always hits the post a ton. Here's an article saying he'd hit the post 17 times in the 17-18 season by February.
He just look like he can't be bothered there, can't really blame him but I can't believe he's declining that fast it's just a lack of interest by him.
Perfect example of when stats don't tell the story.
You would just need to watch him play for PSG to see the huge drop off from what is his normal standard.
Should have went to city in my opinion.
Mbappe looked twice the player he is at the moment, obvs age the main factor in that.
He's been fecking woeful
This is Messi for feck sake, one of the greatest players to ever play the game,
Am sure even he feels he has been poor.
I remember reading somewhere that his assists to xA differential was one of the highest in Europe, basically the chances he created weren't that great but he's playing alongside mbappe. It's weird how people have started bringing assists into it when he's had a disastrous goalscoring season and this shows why it's slightly flawed to do so
G+As were always a key metric used to analyze a player competing for Ballon D'ors. Mbappe wasted tons of potential assists by Messi as he is not an efficient striker despite scoring a lot.. if anything Messi's assist numbers suffered with him rather than improved.. Plus the guy is playing deep in the midfield not as a striker, of course people will bring up his assist numbers.. His season was obviously below "his average".
The real anomaly was him breaking goal scoring records for years as a playmaker making it his normal which is what sets him apart from everyone else.. Some people not watching him closely tend to just imagine him as a penalty box poacher and just use his goal numbers as his performance measure since his goal numbers have often been higher than the best strikers/poachers.. They look at the scoresheet and automatically assume he had a bad game if his name is not there just like doing the opposite for strikers with a goal in a game where they have been otherwise poor and invisible during the whole game..
But the stats show Messi expected assists were only around 8 or so, it was mbappe and others good finishing that had him register way more assists so not mbappe wasting chances as you suggest
For anyone wanting clarification to this, this is clearly missing more recent ones in the assists compilation. But basically a lot of these goals aren't consider high calibre for xG, so backs this theory up. He's essentially underachieved as a playmaker if this kind of clinical and/or luck at times finishing doesn't happen, while also underachieving on his already underwhelming xG of 10.
I'd still say he was reasonably decent though(which clearly is no way near good enough for him), and there's clear belief in that somethings coming together, with a midfield that will heavily complement him more than say Neymar and Mbappe coming this off-season. I doubt Mbabbe signs up again without some kind of assurance that they don't, given that's he guaranteed to play 1, if not 2(option) of his 3 year contract. He'd still cakewalk double his output in Barca, it's hardly a fitness issue, he's just very accustomed to two teams heavily built and reliant on him as a playmaker as well as a goalscorer.... for at least 15 years too.
the greatest player to ever play the game.He's been fecking woeful
This is Messi for feck sake, one of the greatest players to ever play the game,
Am sure even he feels he has been poor.
Plays for us currently.
Why are people using "hitting the woodwork" as a metric to try and justify a decent season? Or misfortune? They are misses after all, what next, are people going to say " Player X had 8 shots that were saved by the keepers' fingertips? "
I see it the same way. Even at the peak of Barcelona they were never guaranteed a league as easy as this season at PSG.
Physically he's gone but also seems like he's not there mentally. He's definitely capable of much more and in another league outside of la liga.
Totally, looks like he is just there to collect a last big paycheck before retirement.
He didn’t exactly work hard for Barcelona did he?
It was more the work that Barcelona were doing for Messi is not happening at PSG - so he is looking more lackluster than usual.
It was more the work that Barcelona were doing for Messi is not happening at PSG - so he is looking more lackluster than usual.
Abysmal season from him.
Forgettable season. I don’t think his heart is in club football anymore.
The reluctance to concede that Messi's season was not as disastrous as first thought is amusing. If it was any other player , a figure of 25 goal involvements would be lapped up immediately. But because it's messi, people will claim that assists are not a big deal and at the same time go look up some subjective xAssists stat to 'prove' that the assists where not great enough!
While I too see his season as an overall failure, it was not anywhere as bad as people are making it out to be - that's a fact that is derivable from his individual stats for the season.
Of course stats don't tell the whole story but here it is useful. It's not only assists - he has good numbers in other metrics as well, like key passes, dribbles etc. He has comparable numbers to the top players in different metrics and people claiming he has lost it are clueless imo. Natural decline aside, I think his game is still very good.
While I too see his season as an overall failure, it was not anywhere as bad as people are making it out to be - that's a fact that is derivable from his individual stats for the season.
Of course stats don't tell the whole story but here it is useful. It's not only assists - he has good numbers in other metrics as well, like key passes, dribbles etc. He has comparable numbers to the top players in different metrics and people claiming he has lost it are clueless imo. Natural decline aside, I think his game is still very good.
Messi had 14 assists. 6 of them were in 2 matches. He played 26 matches in Ligue 1, so that means in the other 24 matches he had 8 assists. An assist every 3 matches is fine but nothing anyone should be lapping up.
Yeah this only ever happened to Messi. No one has ever said other BDO winners' assists shouldn't count.
In past seasons, Messi was often heavily criticized despite great individual performances because the collective wasn't up there with the best around. This season it's different: Many very important metrics - not only goals and assists - are way below what we are used to from him. But part of the truth is also that he nonetheless maintained a very good level, being one of the best progressive passers in the world and all that. It's just that people expect so much from him that even if he plays at the level of somebody like Bruno Ferndandes or Bernardo Silva or something like that, most will label him a failure (and if you consider his wages, justifiably).
Personally, I don't think he's finished yet but would blame his "subpar" performances more on adapting to a new environment after almost two decades in one and the same team. He's not looking as sharp as he used to but pace has been becoming less and less important for him with every year since at least 2014 or so. He's been playing at his own pace for the last 3-4 years already. Next season will be interesting though I really can't bring myself to rooting for PSG to win the UCL.
Messi will score 20+ goals in Ligue Un next season and everyone can stop wringing their hands. He's just had a bit of a slow start, that's all.
That is if Player/Manager/Director of Football Mbappe is happy to start him in enough games.
Couldn’t agree more. I recall Liverpool fans one season arguing they would have won the league had all of their woodwork shots gone in. Highest in the league. Omitting the fact that United, that won the league, only had one less wasn’t of interest.
what about shots almost grazing the post, amazing blocks, saves etc?
I get your reasoning but ultimately it is down to luck if a shot that hits the post goes in or not most of the time. In the end, every goal involves a little bit of luck since humans aren't machines and every finish has a little bit of a spread to it.
After being the best player in the world during almost 16 years his detractors finally find a poor season, by his standards, obviously, to bash him. Congrats.
Has been world class in the Italy game.
Psg could do some serious damage if the get squeeze that little bit of quality out of him.
Psg could do some serious damage if the get squeeze that little bit of quality out of him.
Making Argentine the best team in the world.
Fan age is a huge factor too. Messi's prime years (even though he's been extraordinary forever) were earlier chronologically than Ronaldo's, and his Champions League wins earlier.
Great game again today.
I think you have it reversed actually, Messi was pretty much a no factor at that ucl win, his true peak came in their treble winning season, one year after Ronaldo winning the CL and 2 years from him making the second.
That is so obviously not what he meant.
Played like a man possessed tonight.
So much more passion playing for Argentina than for PSG.
So much more passion playing for Argentina than for PSG.