You're wasting your time even quoting that dude, he'll jump through all kinds of hoops. The idea Pep, Enrique and Valverde played the same is completely insane. I guess its like implying all possession football is the same (so just totally wrong)
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
If you actually watch PSG games you would know that Messi is still miles ahead any other player in the world. Sometimes things just don't work out.
Ummm. No. I said Messi didn’t take care of his body LIKE Ronaldo. How did you read that as Messi is a booze bag? He simply didn’t put the hours in the gym and have a regime like Ronaldo does.
Also Ronaldo physically gifted like Lebron? Maybe you didn’t watch football when Ronaldo was 17 or watch Basketball when Lebron was 17. Ronaldo was a skinny noodle haired kid while Lebron was a beast. Ronaldo made himself into what he is today. He wasn’t a teenage specimen like Lebron.
What a bizarre post. Of course he took great care of his body, otherwise how would he have played 50-60 games a season at the level he played for 10-15 years straight? Messi is just not blessed with same athleticism as Ronaldo, same as Ronaldo isn't blessed with same natural ability as Messi. Yet, folks always equate the two in this never-ending nauseous debate.
Ronaldo legitimately looked finished at this level around January/February but he's rebounded in last month or 2. Messi has been average this season but it's wrong to assume he is in a rapid decline. He might be conserving his energy and body for the World Cup. Don't write him off yet.
Not exactly the same, but similar. Barca always play their own brand of possession football which focus on short pass, ever since Cruyff took over some decades ago. Its not like one manger would play counter attack, while the other play would defensive long ball. Not to mention they all build their teams around Messi with possession football too.
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Its not wrong to assume he is in rapid decline. He is even not half the player he was at Barca last season.
Messi at Barca (La Liga, top 2 league) 20-21: 25 goals, 21 assists, 22 motm, 8.52 avg rating, 4.5 dribble
Mess at PSG (Ligue 1, top 5 league ) 21-22: 4 goals, 13 assists, 4 motm, 7.67 avg rating, 2.5 dribble
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Dude you can’t read. I’m not saying what you or the other guy is saying. Stop with the Messi c*ck sucking and re-read what I said.
Let me dumb it down for you, yeah? Person A takes really good care of his body. Person B also takes really good care of his body, but better than person A does. This would mean that while both take good care of their bodies, person A does NOT take care of their body like person B does. Read my original post after reading that.
Also athleticism has nothing to do with, being fit and athletic are completely different. Tell me you’ve never played a sport without telling me you’ve never played a sport haha.
Pep has only successfully reached the complete top with Barcelona.
At Bayern and City - the GOAT manager for many a people has struggled to be as successful as he did at Barcelona. At his home.
Hmm..
At Bayern and City - the GOAT manager for many a people has struggled to be as successful as he did at Barcelona. At his home.
Hmm..
Messi without Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar between 2019-2022:
2 Ballon D’ors
1 Golden Shoe
1 CL Top Goal scorer
3 Pichichis
1 IFFHS World’s Best Playmaker & 2 times World’s 2nd Best Playmaker
2 times La Liga Most Assists
Ronaldo without Modric, Benzema, Ramos between 2019-2022
0 Ballon D’or (the last one in 2017)
0 Golden Shoe (the last one in 2015)
0 CL top scorer
0 most assists
0 best playmaker award
1 Serie A Top Scorer in a league where 37 year old Quagliarella and Immobile also won with inferior teams.. (his one & only top goal scorer award in the past 7 years)
Ronaldo has been winning almost nothing since he left Real unlike Messi.. A single average season by Messi (based on his standards) does not all of a sudden make Ronaldo equal to him when he has been lagging behind Messi for so long..
2 Ballon D’ors
1 Golden Shoe
1 CL Top Goal scorer
3 Pichichis
1 IFFHS World’s Best Playmaker & 2 times World’s 2nd Best Playmaker
2 times La Liga Most Assists
Ronaldo without Modric, Benzema, Ramos between 2019-2022
0 Ballon D’or (the last one in 2017)
0 Golden Shoe (the last one in 2015)
0 CL top scorer
0 most assists
0 best playmaker award
1 Serie A Top Scorer in a league where 37 year old Quagliarella and Immobile also won with inferior teams.. (his one & only top goal scorer award in the past 7 years)
Ronaldo has been winning almost nothing since he left Real unlike Messi.. A single average season by Messi (based on his standards) does not all of a sudden make Ronaldo equal to him when he has been lagging behind Messi for so long..
And Messi was the chief commander of that team doing both playmaking and goal scoring duties, completely different from Ronaldo who has been a penalty box poacher for a long time where the whole teams are designed to feed him as the primary scoring option, yet could not even win more than a single top league goal scoring award in the last 7 years, 0 Golden Shoe since 2015, 0 Ballon D'or since 2017..
Messi proved he can win Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, CL top scorer, consecutive league top goal scorer awards, world's best playmaking awards when not surrounded by stars at above average Barca teams without Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar.. Ronaldo could not do that, he could not win any major award (except for a single Serie A top scorer award) when not surrounded by other top stars..
All in one league and team. He had one chance to prove himself but ultimately failed.
Looked a different player for Argentina. Looked a different player for PSG than he ever did for Barcelona.
Ps. Why forget Ronaldo playing for Giggs, Anderson, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Park ji sung, Fletcher and Oshea!
A CL winning team with Ronaldo playing with those, getting to 2 CL finals in a row because of him.
And I never argue about this either. He was a GOAT in Barca shirt, no one doubts about that. Its just many people believe he wasn't as good outside of Barca system, especially after what happens this season. I tend to believe its mostly the case of him ageing and declining, which coincidence with him playing in another league for the very first time of his career. But it is what it is, he has not been proven to be as good outside of Barca system.
Regarding your claim on Ronaldo not winning a single top league goal scoring award in last 7 years, you are completely wrong there. Look no further than past 2 year, he had won Serie A top scorer award last season, and Euro golden boot last summer. Not to mention he is currently 3rd top scorer in PL at age 37, the toughest league in the world, which isn't far off too.
In fact, over the last 7 years, the period you are criticising him, Ronaldo still ranked 2nd top scorer in all competitions culmulatively. A player who avg scored 46 goals per season from age 30-37.
Lewandowski (2015-2022) - 359 goals
Ronaldo (2015-2022) - 322 goals
Messi (2015-2022) - 301 goals
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Don't you think you are being a little harsh, considering you, as a team, let Ronaldo down in 18/19? He was doing his outmost to drag you guys towards a final.
Now i reckon you will bring up his performance in last years CL, but nobody ever said he was flawless, just that things could have been different.
And what he has achieved is not due to just one Messi imho... It was Xavi and Iniesta who made Messi AND Pep shine.
You realise you're wasting your time responding here right, threads involving Messi and Ronaldo are generaly always a car crash, but why would you bother arguing with a sycophant and someone who clearly has such animosity towards another player
Case in point, like this is just both trollish and sad
Some people are so bias, it's unreal. But what i hate the most when they try to twist and spin everything, just to fit their agenda.
The whole "best" team in the history in Guardiola time was just a media nonsenses. They won the most rigged match against Chelsea, otherwise no one would have talk about them. Their other CL was also marked heavily with that Arsenal match.
But still the "best" team in the history with the "best" player in history, yet they never managed to win CL twice.
Real and Ronaldo put them in his pocket winning it 3 times in a row, and 4 time in 5 years.
No one has done that in CL, no one has ever done that even twice. Yeah the debate is over right there.
We see the true Messi right now, when the whole team ain't playing for him, and when he actually have a competition in Mbappe side, and it's not all around Messi.
People love to excuse Messi for everything, but expect Ronaldo to carry his team through everything with absolutely boggers of teammates.
I don't see how it's Ronaldo fault that Juventus appointed dog***** manager after dog***** manager(same situation with us right now), and also having terrible teammates, aka wingers that are slower than 50 years old, or impotent free agent midfielders, or 150 years old defense, or a GK that was kicked out of Arsenal, a team know for always having a bad GK.
And yeah they have done it so much since Ronaldo left, both in CL and in the league. And even Inter squad is like 3x time weaker now.
Last year Juventus finished with 78 points, and have scored 77 goals. Currently 3 match to go, they are at 69 points and have scored just 54 goals ....
Anyway i'm just curious why did Messi decide to go in a 10th deaf league, aka Ligue 1, instead of PL ? He choose the ease route and still failed miserably.
The whole "best" team in the history in Guardiola time was just a media nonsenses. They won the most rigged match against Chelsea, otherwise no one would have talk about them. Their other CL was also marked heavily with that Arsenal match.
But still the "best" team in the history with the "best" player in history, yet they never managed to win CL twice.
Real and Ronaldo put them in his pocket winning it 3 times in a row, and 4 time in 5 years.
No one has done that in CL, no one has ever done that even twice. Yeah the debate is over right there.
We see the true Messi right now, when the whole team ain't playing for him, and when he actually have a competition in Mbappe side, and it's not all around Messi.
People love to excuse Messi for everything, but expect Ronaldo to carry his team through everything with absolutely boggers of teammates.
I don't see how it's Ronaldo fault that Juventus appointed dog***** manager after dog***** manager(same situation with us right now), and also having terrible teammates, aka wingers that are slower than 50 years old, or impotent free agent midfielders, or 150 years old defense, or a GK that was kicked out of Arsenal, a team know for always having a bad GK.
And yeah they have done it so much since Ronaldo left, both in CL and in the league. And even Inter squad is like 3x time weaker now.
Last year Juventus finished with 78 points, and have scored 77 goals. Currently 3 match to go, they are at 69 points and have scored just 54 goals ....
Anyway i'm just curious why did Messi decide to go in a 10th deaf league, aka Ligue 1, instead of PL ? He choose the ease route and still failed miserably.
I think apart from dedication you also need the genetics for it. Ronaldo is an athletic specimen, Messi never was and most footballers are over the hill at his age. I never believed he keep going past his mid thirties just because of his natural talent and I think this is the case.
This isn't the Messi vs Ronaldo thread. There was a specific thread for that.
People should be perma banned when they start a Messi vs Ronaldo in a thread that isn't about that. The topic is tedious even when you are not engaging.
I dont see any bias here...
The Messi vs Ronaldo thread has been locked. So now people could only discuss them over here or to Ronaldo thread.
Still this thread is specifically not for that. Mods should reopen the thread for that.
And they should be banned for that.
I know that. I reply to the guy that start the Ronaldo narrative for million time in that thread. I'm just wondering why people didn't start complaining right after his post, but waiting someone to actually speaks facts, before they start complaining.
Anyway the complain is a legit one, so i'm through with this thread.
I like that people can't contain their lust for this topic do they have to release it somewhere
I've completely forgotten about Messi this season. Haven't paid attention to him at all.
To be honest - Rashford's performance thread has hardly anything to do with performances and more to do with graffiti, PR, social media and transfers.
Maybe they should be banned too?
Maybe they should be banned too?
Ligue 1:
Messi 4 goals
Ben Yedder 21 goals
Ben Yedder is 5 times a better Ligue 1 player than Messi and 5 times more impactful while earning around 1/5 of Messi's weekly salary. So in total Ben Yedder is 10 times a better Ligue 1 investment than Messi. But PSG and Messi fanboys will ignore this and instead hate on Yedder's wicked goatee. Haters gonna hate. Ben Yedder is Ligue 1 Uber Eats king, Messi is the servant. You are not good enough to play in Ligue 1. Accept defeat and surrender to the king.
Messi 4 goals
Ben Yedder 21 goals
Ben Yedder is 5 times a better Ligue 1 player than Messi and 5 times more impactful while earning around 1/5 of Messi's weekly salary. So in total Ben Yedder is 10 times a better Ligue 1 investment than Messi. But PSG and Messi fanboys will ignore this and instead hate on Yedder's wicked goatee. Haters gonna hate. Ben Yedder is Ligue 1 Uber Eats king, Messi is the servant. You are not good enough to play in Ligue 1. Accept defeat and surrender to the king.
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It's such a disappointing end to his career.
Would've loved to see him have a crack at the Prem instead. Although giving how he's struggled in France maybe it's for the best he didn't try England.
Would've loved to see him have a crack at the Prem instead. Although giving how he's struggled in France maybe it's for the best he didn't try England.
Messi will get 20+ league goals next season. Who wants to bet?
Yeah. Unless Argentina wins the wc. I think he'll be worse next season. Might be wrong though.
I thought he wanted to retire in Argentina. I guess getting the 70 million per season with PSG is more pragmatic.
I think about how he went from above Pele in La Liga to below Pepe in Ligue 1.
It's hard to turn down those money. I think people underestimate rich people's desire for more. And I think he wanted another go at the CL. Didn't work out. Imo I think he should retire after the WC but he will probably see out his contract.
Xavi and iniesta were actually playing before pep took over. There was actually talk of Xavi being sold before pep assured him he would be central to the team. Messi was also world class before he became a freak goalscorer. Ever since he was 19 he was considered one of the most exciting players ever. Like most it took time for him to perfect his game but he hit his prime pretty young.
With respect, this argument doesn't make any sense. Staying at one club for 20 years doesn't mean you play in the same system for 20 years. He's had 8 different managers in Spain with different styles and dozens of different teammates and opponents. He's also played in a variety of different positions and roles. Morover, he's played in the Champions League and for Argentina at a high level (all time record in goals and goal contributions). So the same league thing doesn't hold any water for me, unless you think Barca and La Liga were exactly the same in 2004 as they were in 2021. Shall we do this for every great player? We can't be sure how good Muller, Beckenbauer, Maldini and Pele were because they didn't do it in different European leagues and stayed at one club for a long time?
People like to make the comparison with Ronaldo moving around but Ronaldo started doing so at a much younger age. I recall when Ronaldo came to United, which was his first move from his boyhood club. He didn't exactly hit the ground running, and was widely mocked for using 50 step overs when 3 would do and diving a lot. It took him a while to find his feet. Then he moved on, and each time he moved on I'd imagine he became more used to the change in circumstances.
Messi is clearly declining, but I think he was declining in the latter years at Barca as well, if you actually watched him play. Had he gone to another league in his prime and not scored, you could maybe make this argument, but at age 34, making a move for the first time in 20 years, it really doesn't work. Also, he might more prolific next season, you never know. It seems like he's staying put for another go round. And even though he didn't score much, he did create a lot of goals and chances and he does have another trophy in his march to the all time record. It's the fact that he combines creativity and scoring so well that makes him in my view the greatest player of this generation.
I also think its a bit silly to judge his entire ability and legacy at his first move at 34 but the drop off after being la liga topscorer and copa player of the tournament its hard for
his haters not to rub it in. Cryuff had a great career well into his 30's and a great final season at 37. Yet its not used as an argument to have him over Pele and Maradona by the majority although some do have him as the best ever.
Well, I understand where you coming from, and that’s more or less my standpoint too to be honest. But let’s just say the argument has been there for a while already, Messi had has his chance to prove it wrong this season, instead he made it even worst. This “did try but fail” will eventually come back against him, when people discussing his merits/demerits in future as compared to other GOATs. I think it would be better if he had just stayed at Barca, ageing/decline and retired there, because it then couldn’t be proven right or wrong, and people could still refute it with “stay at one club like other legend” arguments.
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I honestly don't think so, but I'm willing to accept that you could be correct. I would argue that we just need to look at how we view players from the past. We tend to focus on when they were at their best, not what they did when they were well into their 30s. That tends to get forgotten about. Everything that is important for Messi's legacy has already happened IMO, and I'd say the same for Ronaldo too. People are comparing them now in their 30s because they're around now, but future generations will focus on their prime years.