Lionel Messi

[Skorenzy]

I can't see another player catching them up in terms of performance/Stats unless there is a ridiculous drop from either of them. They're way too good and productive compared to the rest.

Except that it's just not true. Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[kouroux]

Except that it's just not true. Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.

The penalty responsibility will always be theirs (Messi and Ronaldo's) therefore they'll always have a bigger chance to retain their productivity in comparison to the other players. So chances to have any of their teammates outscoring them by the end of the season are very slim.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They're going to be caught up. Nothing lasts forever. Football always works in cycles. They will have the advantage of being top dogs in teams that are so much superior to their competition, but it's not going to be like this when Ronaldo is 35 and Messi 33. Sorry, but that isn't happening.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Except that it's just not true. Give the penalty taking duties to Neymar and Benzema this season and (assuming they score the same amount of them) this is how it looks,

Messi, 27 goals in all comps (in 26 apps)
Neymar, 18 goals in all comps (in 22 apps)

Cristiano, 26 goals in all comps (in 30 apps)
Benzema, 24 goals in all comps (in 29 apps)


Also shows once more that Cristiano didn't find some magical new level, as the more significant factors that changed were his team's offensive performance (he has around the same % of his team's goals as in the last two seasons, which means they just scored more on the whole) and the fact that they've gotten a disproportionate amount of penalties so far compared to Barça which skews it a bit. If the trend I noticed in the La Liga thread holds that means Barça will get more pens in the 2nd half of the season.

Definitely the case.

 

[Marcosdeto]

Just dropping this here belatedly. A United game was on at the same time before Christmas so probably everyone has missed it.

Great touch.

the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW

 

[amolbhatia50k]

the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW

Messi is the obviously the best but it's hardly as if other players can't pull off a touch like that.

 

[RedRonaldo]

the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW

Nice stuff but thats a huge exaggeration based on that touch alone though.. Berbatov used to do that every other day...

 

[Marcosdeto]

come on guys, you know what i mean, players like messi that can do that one day, score a perfect hattrick the next and be top scorer of la liga are something you dont see twice in a lifetime

 

[Vialli_92]

The guy is magic, its not even debatable who is the best in the world. He's a good but in front as well I don't even think it's close between them.

 

[Cal?]

the day other player does something like that, then i will consider the posibility that there's a player that may compete with messi as the BITW

Except for the fact that he hasn't been for over 2 years...

 

[Pink Moon]

Except for the fact that he hasn't been for over 2 years...

Funny how the Ballon d'Or is proof of who is the best player in the world when it suits your agenda but for 4 years in a row it didn't.

If the Ballon d'Or is definitive proof in the Messi v Ronaldo debate then I'd ask what it says when Messi has more than Ronaldo despite being younger than him and having finished second to Ronaldo in both years you mention unlike Ronaldo who missed the top 3 entirely one season.

 

[CLARiiON]

He might be scoring with right-foot a lot, but I am sure he can't control the ball same way he did with his left foot. That control to take the ball down was ridiculous.

Yea, great touch. I had posted the same goal few days back, though from a different angle.

 

[Cal?]

Funny how the Ballon d'Or is proof of who is the best player in the world when it suits your agenda but for 4 years in a row it didn't.

If the Ballon d'Or is definitive proof in the Messi v Ronaldo debate then I'd ask what it says when Messi has more than Ronaldo despite being younger than him and having finished second to Ronaldo in both years you mention unlike Ronaldo who missed the top 3 entirely one season.

Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?

 

[Vialli_92]

Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?

Didn't he come off the back of a CL and league winning campaign? He was the standout player that year.

 

[Cal?]

Didn't he come off the back of a CL and league winning campaign? He was the standout player that year.

Didn't Xavi and Iniesta both do that AND WON the World Cup rather than getting completely blown away?

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Didn't Xavi and Iniesta both do that AND WON the World Cup rather than getting completely blown away?

Your best mate was "completely blown away" at the World Cup and you still think he should have won, so...

At least be consistent for god sake.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?

the large number of people who vote for him would suggest otherwise. If I remember correctly each year you you state Ronaldo should win it, including the years Messi won it comfortably, so why even debate it?

Imagine the tears if I posted something like this in another thread!

 

[cesc's_mullet]

the large number of people who vote for him would suggest otherwise. If I remember correctly each year you you state Ronaldo should win it, including the years Messi won it comfortably, so why even debate it?

Imagine the tears if I posted something like this in another thread!

Why bother? Cal is the single most obsessed poster on this site. We go through it every season several times - he just can't admit defeat or accept commonly held opinion.

Bless him.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Your best mate was "completely blown away" at the World Cup and you still think he should have won, so...

At least be consistent for god sake.

See above.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Yea, great touch. I had posted the same goal few days back, though from a different angle.

Did you not realise you just quoted yourself here?

 

[Cal?]

Your best mate was "completely blown away" at the World Cup and you still think he should have won, so...

At least be consistent for god sake.

THat's in a year without any standout candidates who won a lot of trophies like Xavi & Iniesta did in 2012.

 

[Cal?]

the large number of people who vote for him would suggest otherwise. If I remember correctly each year you you state Ronaldo should win it, including the years Messi won it comfortably, so why even debate it?

Imagine the tears if I posted something like this in another thread!

You probably think Messi should have won it this year... he made the WC final... sob sob...

 

[Bob Loblaw]

See above.

Probably right. It's tempting to get into a debate with him but not worth the effort.

 

[Cal?]

Actually, scratch all that, Xavi & Iniesta won the Euro in 2012.

It was 2010 they won the WC.

 

[Amar__]

Did you not realise you just quoted yourself here?

These things are always funny.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Either the balon dor is definitive or not. You just used it to argue Ronaldo has been better for 2 years. That means messi is overall better in your eyes, surely. (Even though using an award to decide is laughable)

Messi is the best in the world. Noone can be as devastating in terms of end product and add as much got he general play as he does. His peak is unmatched by anyone I've seen. Ronaldhinio is Probably next in terms of top level but messi is still far ahead of him.

 

[Snake Plissken]

You probably think Messi should have won it this year... he made the WC final... sob sob...

Except I didn't, and I was heavily critical of some of Messi's displays last season so you don't really have an argument there.

Actually, scratch all that, Xavi & Iniesta won the Euro in 2012.

It was 2010 they won the WC.

Like one of the lads above said, at least be consistent. If the Euro's and the WC are vital then surely by your reckoning Ronaldo should have been nowhere near the Ballon D'or this year after his piss poor showing in Brazil? or was that late goal against Ghana enough to swing it?

 

[ThierryHenry]

Funny how the Ballon D'Or was definitely proof when Messi kept winning despite not really deserving to in 2012 yet now he doesn't win it, it means nothing?

... The year in which he scored 91 goals?

 

[Snake Plissken]

... The year in which he scored 91 goals?

and he'll be the first to tell you that goals are what counts, no matter how they're scored and no matter the opposition.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

and he'll be the first to tell you that goals are what counts, no matter how they're scored and no matter the opposition.

He didn't score enough on Thursdays for it to count, don't you know.

 

[Cal?]

Like one of the lads above said, at least be consistent. If the Euro's and the WC are vital then surely by your reckoning Ronaldo should have been nowhere near the Ballon D'or this year after his piss poor showing in Brazil? or was that late goal against Ghana enough to swing it?

It obviously means a lot, otherwise Neuer wouldn't be anywhere near the top 3 in 2014. There was no other stand out candidate in 2014 who won a lot domestically and won the WC, therefore Ronaldo fully deserved it for last year.

However, in 2010, the same argument cannot be made.

Actually, scratch all that, Xavi & Iniesta won the Euro in 2012.

It was 2010 they won the WC.

... The year in which he scored 91 goals?

I've already pointed out that I meant 2010. 2012 was probably his best year.

 

[Cal?]

and he'll be the first to tell you that goals are what counts, no matter how they're scored and no matter the opposition.

That's true.

 

[Snake Plissken]

It obviously means a lot, otherwise Neuer wouldn't be anywhere near the top 3 in 2014. There was no other stand out candidate in 2014 who won a lot domestically and won the WC, therefore Ronaldo fully deserved it for last year.

However, in 2010, the same argument cannot be made.
.

But your previous statements about 2010 seems to suggest you think benefit should be given to the world cup winner. So let's give it to Neuer, plus he was outstanding for Bayern too all season.

 

[Snake Plissken]

That's true.

of course it is. You're very selective in your criteria, basically as long as it benefits your favourite player it's fine

 

[Cal?]

But your previous statements about 2010 seems to suggest you think benefit should be given to the world cup winner. So let's give it to Neuer, plus he was outstanding for Bayern too all season.

I'm not sure how you got that impression, plus Neuer didn't look too clever against Real Madrid, did he? and the CL counts a lot more than domestic titles.

Didn't he come off the back of a CL and league winning campaign? He was the standout player that year.

Didn't Xavi and Iniesta both do that AND WON the World Cup rather than getting completely blown away?

And I thought Messi would have won it if Argentina managed to bore their way to the WC.

 

[Cal?]

of course it is. You're very selective in your criteria, basically as long as it benefits your favourite player it's fine

Likewise most people in this thread seems to think dribbling and close control is the be all and end all for footballers.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I'm not sure how you got that impression, plus Neuer didn't look too clever against Real Madrid, did he? and the CL counts a lot more than domestic titles.




And I thought Messi would have won it if Argentina managed to bore their way to the WC.

Yeah but your boy didn't look too clever in the CL final did he so should he lose marks for not actually turning up in the game that counted most?

Likewise most people in this thread seems to think dribbling and close control is the be all and end all for footballers.

But you would think that too if Ronaldo still had that in his locker

You and that 'Ronaldo's mum' poster should get a room.

 

[I_live_cement]

Likewise most people in this thread seems to think dribbling and close control is the be all and end all for footballers.

Well it's a massive part of it.

 

[Cal?]

Yeah but your boy didn't look too clever in the CL final did he so should he lose marks for not actually turning up in the game that counted most?

Still scored a goal, which is more than can be said for your man in 4 games in the WC knockout stage...

Well it's a massive part of it.

Whilst heading, freekick, timing etc mean nothing...

 

[WR10]

Maybe I'm clouded by his physique? He may not be lightning anymore but he is still quick enough to get by defenders. I think he'll become a CF and his strength will show through.

Possible, seeing as physique really doesn't tell you much about balance and agility. It's actually been sad watching him this season try to dribble the ball between defenders, he's all but lost it, which is why he now usually just takes two touches and passes it to a teammate, as opposed to old ronaldo who would take on the world before doing so. His mental attributes have just been getting sharper and sharper though, which is why his physical decline has not had too much of an impact on him. The only way his physical degeneration will take away from his game is if he is to start getting injuries, then it's curtains...