Lionel Messi

Marcosdeto

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:lol: forgot that this thread was full of fanboys. It was a joke ffs
nope, you followed it with very stupid posts

you tried to say it in a funny way -you failed- but after that, you tried to back it up with very stupid posts

and btw, i dont mind people don't liking messi, there are a many posters here that don't like him

stupid comments like "the PL is harder" get me
 

RooneyLegend

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It was lighthearted, but IMO i don't think Messi would have had quite the ridiculous stats had he spent 5 years of his career in the Prem compared to La Liga.
If he played for Barca in the prem he'd have tore the place up.
 

NasirTimothy

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Who Pissed in your cornflakes? That point means feck all regarding my point too. All that shows is the top Spanish teams have outperformed English teams, it doesn’t talk about the competitiveness of each domestic league in isolation.
So what metric have you used to prove that the Premier League is more competitive in isolation? And it’s not about being ‘competitive’ either. The Championship is competitive, that doesn’t make it a good league. It’s about the quality of the defending in the league. What evidence do you have that the defending is so much better in the Premier League that Messi would not be able to score a similar amount playing for a top team in England (when he gets goals for fun against the top PL sides in the CL)?

There is no evidence at all. That’s the problem. It’s people who like the PL or who are English (or English speaking) convincing themselves that it is far ahead of La Liga. It’s not and never has been. The two leagues are of about the same level.
 

Rojow

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If EPL is better, where are all those international tournaments in the last 15 years? Spain has more in UCL and EL. For sure EPL is more fun, but is not harder nor better. In fact, i think that La Liga is the most technical league in Europe.

That record against top 6 speak for itself. It's amazing.
 

Daysleeper

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He's having a Balon D'or worthy season. If Barcelona manage the impossible and win the league after the horrible 2020 start of the season, then i think its a given.
I don’t know, he’s been really good this season but Barca have been poor against the elite of La Liga (outside of Sevilla) and crashing out early in CL is going to sting as CL carries a lot of weight for ballon d’or. If psg wins cl I could see mbappe winning it but definitely Messi deserves a spot in the top 3
 

He'sRaldo

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From a distance, Messi seems similar to Pep nowadays in that he's very good in the league but has not been that effective in Europe. His team has received CL floggings for quite a few years in a row now, all with him on the pitch.
 

DoneDaDa

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From a distance, Messi seems similar to Pep nowadays in that he's very good in the league but has not been that effective in Europe. His team has received CL floggings for quite a few years in a row now, all with him on the pitch.
Barca as a team have been poor while also being coached poorly hardly on Messi.
 

Hoof The Ball

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It's probably not a surprise to anyone that Messi has the best record in world football for goals and assists contributed in finals, both single leg and double.
 

Mr Smith

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From a distance, Messi seems similar to Pep nowadays in that he's very good in the league but has not been that effective in Europe. His team has received CL floggings for quite a few years in a row now, all with him on the pitch.
On a superficial level that is technically true, but I'd argue that doesn't indicate Messi's decline, but rather the decline of the team around him. In La Liga Barcelona play teams week-on-week that aren't as good, so Messi can win the game with moments of magic here and there without the team playing particularly well. In Europe, they're playing against elite teams, so they don't have that luxury. Messi can play as well as he wants, but he can't control the rest of the team. Look at the PSG away leg; he scores a screamer but his team still doesn't go through, because the defence let him down in the first leg.
 

Rojow

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Barca's defence is too weak for high level matches. Liverpool is the best example in UCL.
 

Daysleeper

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From a distance, Messi seems similar to Pep nowadays in that he's very good in the league but has not been that effective in Europe. His team has received CL floggings for quite a few years in a row now, all with him on the pitch.
Not his fault. Created every chance to n that second leg against Liverpool. The defense was the biggest issue for Barca in CL, not Messi. Even Ronaldo gets dumped (and to much inferior teams) without someone else stepping up like he had in Madrid.
 

bakalhau

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I don't know why, but the moment the foul was given, I had one of those feelings it was going in. Just the missing pen, scoring on the rebound... Free kick soon after. I had a feeling. And bang.

Not even surprised to be honest. Beautiful goal.
 

Hoof The Ball

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I feel like if Barca don't win the league after this incredible turnaround since December that Messi's Ballon D'or performances will just get forgotten by some historical revisionist next season who will inevitably say, "Huh, Barca didn't win the league so Messi must have had a poor season."

In fact. Count on it.

Hope Barca do it so Messi gets the plaudits his form warrants.
 

Maluco

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It’s amazing that a player as gifted at so many aspects of the game as Messi, is so woeful at penalties.
 

mshnsh

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From a distance, Messi seems similar to Pep nowadays in that he's very good in the league but has not been that effective in Europe. His team has received CL floggings for quite a few years in a row now, all with him on the pitch.
Only from a distance. But in reality Barcelona's main issue and the reason why they have struggled is a terrible defence and a progressively aging midfield until recently.

You just have to watch the matches vs Juventus (2017), Roma (2018), Liverpool (2019), Bayern (2020), PSG (2021).
Every time the opponent attacks, it looked like a sure goal. Pique has got to be the single most overrated defender in la ligas modern history. A big mouth is all he has.
 

DaGOAT

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741 goals

310 assists

35 trophies

56 freekicks

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50 league goals in a season

73 goals all competitions in a season

91 goals in a calendar year

30 or more club goals in last 13 seasons

7 Pichichi

6 Golden Boot

6 Ballon d'Or

1 World Cup Golden Ball

6 FIFA Best Player

2 UEFA Best Player



Best of his generation, IMO.
 

Redplane

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741 goals

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30 or more club goals in last 13 seasons

7 Pichichi

6 Golden Boot

6 Ballon d'Or

1 World Cup Golden Ball

6 FIFA Best Player

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Best of his generation, IMO.
I notice a pattern in your posts.
 

NasirTimothy

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Only from a distance. But in reality Barcelona's main issue and the reason why they have struggled is a terrible defence and a progressively aging midfield until recently.

You just have to watch the matches vs Juventus (2017), Roma (2018), Liverpool (2019), Bayern (2020), PSG (2021).
Every time the opponent attacks, it looked like a sure goal. Pique has got to be the single most overrated defender in la ligas modern history. A big mouth is all he has.
Unfair I think. Pique was for much of his career a very good defender, but he’s past it now and the Barca defence as a whole is shockingly bad. They can’t stop a nosebleed.
 

Hoof The Ball

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Not his fault. Created every chance to n that second leg against Liverpool. The defense was the biggest issue for Barca in CL, not Messi. Even Ronaldo gets dumped (and to much inferior teams) without someone else stepping up like he had in Madrid.
People often are unable to separate the team performance from the individual, and so if a team wins they'll say the player played well, and if the team loses they'll say he played poorly. The fact of the matter is that in Europe these past few seasons Messi has been their outstanding player. He was this season vs. PSG, regardless of the result. He most definitely was vs. Liverpool, and was the reason why they went to Anfield at 3-0 in the first place. How are people going to attribute Barca's defensive collapses on a player literally carrying a team on his back?
 

The holy trinity 68

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It’s amazing that a player as gifted at so many aspects of the game as Messi, is so woeful at penalties.
He has scored 99 and missed 30 in his career, that means he has a 76% scoring record for penalties. That isn't bad considering how many he has taken. Obviously it's not the best as Ronaldo who has taken about 20 more has only missed 26 with a scoring record of 84%.
 

RedRonaldo

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They are panicking realizing that Messi is currently the favorite for the Balon D Or.


If Barcelona do pull the double its going to be close to a miracle.
Messi has been great since turn of year, but to be honest I don’t think it’s likely for him to win it yet, if he managed a club double he might have a chance, but let’s not forget there are 3 other factors:
1. Lewandoski had scored far more goals than anyone, while Messi has scored similar no. of goals as Ronaldo, Haaland, Mbappe
2. Barcelona didn’t do well in CL, La liga is no longer best league in the world, Spanish cup is just another domestic trophy
3. This is Euro year, any outstanding performer in Euro would have a good chance of winning it

I think Lewandoski is currently leading it, if Messi managed a club double he might have a chance maybe 50/50. However if someone win the Euro with good performance, and at the same time also had a good individual season this year (ie Mbappe, Ronaldo, Bruno etc), they would surely have good chance of winning it too. And then of course, there could be an outsider winning it too, if they have great performance in Euro (similar to Modric in 18 WC)
 
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Rojow

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I don't see Messi winning another Ballon D'or. He should have 10, but i think having 6 is enough. He is a level above anyone in football, and that's his rutine, people got use to it.

This year is Copa America. Yes, another one.
 

Daysleeper

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Messi has been great since turn of year, but to be honest I don’t think it’s likely for him to win it yet, if he managed a club double he might have a chance, but let’s not forget there are 3 other factors:
1. Lewandoski had scored far more goals than anyone, while Messi has scored similar no. of goals as Ronaldo, Haaland, Mbappe
2. Barcelona didn’t do well in CL, La liga is no longer best league in the world, Spanish cup is just another domestic trophy
3. This is Euro year, any outstanding performer in Euro would have a good chance of winning it

I think Lewandoski is currently leading it, if Messi managed a club double he might have a chance maybe 50/50. However if someone win the Euro with good performance, and at the same time also had a good individual season this year (ie Mbappe, Ronaldo, Bruno etc), they would surely have good chance of winning it too. And then of course, there could be an outsider winning it too, if they have great performance in Euro (similar to Modric in 18 WC)
I agree with everything you said. Even if Barca win the double I don’t think it would be enough. However if Argentina somehow wins Copa America it could be interesting.
 

mshnsh

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Unfair I think. Pique was for much of his career a very good defender, but he’s past it now and the Barca defence as a whole is shockingly bad. They can’t stop a nosebleed.
He is overrated. All others get dropped while he gets tauted as Barcelona's, best defender when in truth since Guardiola left and he lost protection of tiki taka, he has been exposed time and again. Just watch the champions league matches vs Juve in 2017- at fault for 2 of the goals, Roma in 2018- at faul for 2 if the goals (2018), Liverpool in 2019 - at fault for 1 of the goals.

Messi has been great since turn of year, but to be honest I don’t think it’s likely for him to win it yet, if he managed a club double he might have a chance, but let’s not forget there are 3 other factors:
1. Lewandoski had scored far more goals than anyone, while Messi has scored similar no. of goals as Ronaldo, Haaland, Mbappe
2. Barcelona didn’t do well in CL, La liga is no longer best league in the world, Spanish cup is just another domestic trophy
3. This is Euro year, any outstanding performer in Euro would have a good chance of winning it

I think Lewandoski is currently leading it, if Messi managed a club double he might have a chance maybe 50/50. However if someone win the Euro with good performance, and at the same time also had a good individual season this year (ie Mbappe, Ronaldo, Bruno etc), they would surely have good chance of winning it too. And then of course, there could be an outsider winning it too, if they have great performance in Euro (similar to Modric in 18 WC)
Ronaldo has not had a good season despite being top scorer in serie A and is nowhere near the Ballondo'r based on his Juve performances regardless of how much you wish it to be true. Juventus are not going to win serie a for the first time after 9 seasons on top. He hasn't improved them at all.

If Barcelona win la liga, Messi can win it because in the second half of this season, his performances have been ballondo'r worthy of all players.

Lewandowski is tops scorer but in a 1 team league and does not have the profile to win the ballondo'r without winning the champions league/European cup.

In the end however, the champions league, Euro Cup and copa America will decide it. If, there is no stand out player in any of those tournaments (for champions league, it's mainly PSG having individuals), Messi wins it provided Barcelona with la liga.
 

RedRonaldo

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He is overrated. All others get dropped while he gets tauted as Barcelona's, best defender when in truth since Guardiola left and he lost protection of tiki taka, he has been exposed time and again. Just watch the champions league matches vs Juve in 2017- at fault for 2 of the goals, Roma in 2018- at faul for 2 if the goals (2018), Liverpool in 2019 - at fault for 1 of the goals.



Ronaldo has not had a good season despite being top scorer in serie A and is nowhere near the Ballondo'r based on his Juve performances regardless of how much you wish it to be true. Juventus are not going to win serie a for the first time after 9 seasons on top. He hasn't improved them at all.

If Barcelona win la liga, Messi can win it because in the second half of this season, his performances have been ballondo'r worthy of all players.

Lewandowski is tops scorer but in a 1 team league and does not have the profile to win the ballondo'r without winning the champions league/European cup.

In the end however, the champions league, Euro Cup and copa America will decide it. If, there is no stand out player in any of those tournaments (for champions league, it's mainly PSG having individuals), Messi wins it provided Barcelona with la liga.
To be fair there is no one in particular would win it for sure base on current standings, and you simply can’t ignore all the factors listed above. For example:

Lewandoski:
- 43 goals 6 assists in 37 games
- may win BL (currently 1st)
- Quarter final in CL with 5 goals
- top goalscorer in BL/top 5 league this season

Messi:
- 36 goals 11 assists in 44 games
- won domestic cup, currently 3rd in league (chance of winning double)
- Last 16 in CL with 5 goals
- will play in Copa (host country advantage)
- top performer/goalscorer in La Liga this season

Mbappe
- 37 goals 10 assists in 43 games
- currently 2nd in league and semi final in domestic cup (chance of winning double)
- semi final in CL with 8 goals
- will play in Euro (tournament favourites)
- top goalscorer in French league this season

Ronaldo:
- 34 goals 5 assists in 40 games
- may win domestic cup (in final)
- Last 16 in CL with 4 goals
- will play in Euro (defending champion)
- top goalscorer in Serie A this season

Haaland:
- 37 goals 7 assists in 38 games
- Quarter final in CL with 12 goals
- top goalscorer in CL this season

In fact any of the above would have a claim to win it, especially if any of them would go on and win Euro/Copa this summer. It isn’t really that hard, there’s one country winning Euro and one winning Copa anyway, if the top players happened to be in winning team. Let’s say France winning Euro and Mbappe scoring 3 goals, he will win it based on that fact that he is among top performer this season plus winning biggest Euro trophy, even if he only managed some decent contribution there.

In Messi case, no matter how brilliant he was since turn of year, if Barca didn’t win La Liga, he would end up in similar season as Ronaldo (similar stats, similar no. of trophies, similar CL progress, similar league standings etc), which then depends on how well they progress in Euro/Copa if they want to compete in Ballon D’or again.

And of course there is also outside chance for players like De Bruyne etc, if he helps Belgium winning Euros and City winning treble.

What if England win Euro, Kane may even have an outside chance there. He is top goalscorer/assist in PL, his output matches or even better than any top players in world this season, and assuming that he is also top goalscorer and champion in Euro, he may win it.

Kane:
- 31 goals 17 assist in 45 games
- top goalscorer/assist in PL this season
- (assumingly finished as top goalscorer and won Euro for England )

Don’t get me wrong, Messi has been brilliant this year and I think he is currently the best player, but on current standings, he didn’t clearly stand out among top 5-6 players listed above, especially with other big factors coming to play in summer.
 
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Maluco

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He has scored 99 and missed 30 in his career, that means he has a 76% scoring record for penalties. That isn't bad considering how many he has taken. Obviously it's not the best as Ronaldo who has taken about 20 more has only missed 26 with a scoring record of 84%.
It’s a pretty awful record considering his ability and how well he strikes a ball in open play. Missing 1 penalty every 4 is just strange for that stature of a player I guess.

You would expect him to rarely miss, but I guess it’s a pretty particular skill. Growing up watching someone like Le Tissier, you just expect Messi to be that cool with them.
 

Son

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Best of his generation, IMO.
It hasn’t really been a debate since 2012 if you ask me.

He could have retired in January 2013 and most people would probably say he was the most talented footballer of all time.
 

NasirTimothy

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He is overrated. All others get dropped while he gets tauted as Barcelona's, best defender when in truth since Guardiola left and he lost protection of tiki taka, he has been exposed time and again. Just watch the champions league matches vs Juve in 2017- at fault for 2 of the goals, Roma in 2018- at faul for 2 if the goals (2018), Liverpool in 2019 - at fault for 1 of the goals.
Guardiola left Barca 5 years before the games you are talking about. What about the hundreds of games that were played in the interim? Pique has been a solid player for them for ages, tiki taka or no tiki taka.

I’m not saying he’s Franco Baresi, but any defender would struggle without good surroundings. And if you watch Barca regularly and you’ve seen the likes of Clement Lenglet play, you’d realise that they’ve got far worse problems at the back than an ageing Gerard Pique
 

Cal?

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I don't see Messi winning another Ballon D'or. He should have 10, but i think having 6 is enough. He is a level above anyone in football, and that's his rutine, people got use to it.

This year is Copa America. Yes, another one.
Pray tell which ones do you think he should have won? :lol:
 

Rojow

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Pray tell which ones do you think he should have won? :lol:
The ones for the best player in the world. Which he has been for at least the last 10-12 years. By the classic standars of football, not the popularity and marketing contests we have now or the last decade.

But hey, that's my view. I don't pretend to change anyones view on this.
 

VanKenny

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Messi has been great since turn of year, but to be honest I don’t think it’s likely for him to win it yet, if he managed a club double he might have a chance, but let’s not forget there are 3 other factors:
1. Lewandoski had scored far more goals than anyone, while Messi has scored similar no. of goals as Ronaldo, Haaland, Mbappe
2. Barcelona didn’t do well in CL, La liga is no longer best league in the world, Spanish cup is just another domestic trophy
3. This is Euro year, any outstanding performer in Euro would have a good chance of winning it

I think Lewandoski is currently leading it, if Messi managed a club double he might have a chance maybe 50/50. However if someone win the Euro with good performance, and at the same time also had a good individual season this year (ie Mbappe, Ronaldo, Bruno etc), they would surely have good chance of winning it too. And then of course, there could be an outsider winning it too, if they have great performance in Euro (similar to Modric in 18 WC)

Remember that Balon D Or is for the calendar year. Nobody has had a 2021 even near as good as Messi's. He tops every chart across all leagues for 2021.

Lewandowski was great last year, but he got injured this year and hasnt seen much playing time. Bayern will win the league which is a 1 horse unexciting race (opposed to La liga which is being one of the best and closest top league we have had in a long time). Has no chance of winning the Euro either so i dont think he's a contender. Sad for him because he should have won the last one.


If Messi wins the double, he's by far the favorite, all his transfer saga, the horrendous start of the season, only to come back and win those two trophies mainly thanks to Messi's ridiculous top form at 34, that put hims #1 easily. Catching Atletico and Madrid after being so far behind would be incredible.


Only one i can see snatching it from him is Mbappe, but so far ligue 1 and CL seem unlikely for him, which would leave the Euros as a last resort. Remember Messi has Copa America too.

Ronaldo, Bruno etc shouldnt even be mentioned in the conversation IMO.
 

DaGOAT

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To be fair there is no one in particular would win it for sure base on current standings, and you simply can’t ignore all the factors listed above. For example:

Lewandoski:
- 43 goals 6 assists in 37 games
- may win BL (currently 1st)
- Quarter final in CL with 5 goals
- top goalscorer in BL/top 5 league this season

Messi:
- 36 goals 11 assists in 44 games
- won domestic cup, currently 3rd in league (chance of winning double)
- Last 16 in CL with 5 goals
- will play in Copa (host country advantage)
- top performer/goalscorer in La Liga this season

Mbappe
- 37 goals 10 assists in 43 games
- currently 2nd in league and semi final in domestic cup (chance of winning double)
- semi final in CL with 8 goals
- will play in Euro (tournament favourites)
- top goalscorer in French league this season

Ronaldo:
- 34 goals 5 assists in 40 games
- may win domestic cup (in final)
- Last 16 in CL with 4 goals
- will play in Euro (defending champion)
- top goalscorer in Serie A this season

Haaland:
- 37 goals 7 assists in 38 games
- Quarter final in CL with 12 goals
- top goalscorer in CL this season

In fact any of the above would have a claim to win it, especially if any of them would go on and win Euro/Copa this summer. It isn’t really that hard, there’s one country winning Euro and one winning Copa anyway, if the top players happened to be in winning team. Let’s say France winning Euro and Mbappe scoring 3 goals, he will win it based on that fact that he is among top performer this season plus winning biggest Euro trophy, even if he only managed some decent contribution there.

In Messi case, no matter how brilliant he was since turn of year, if Barca didn’t win La Liga, he would end up in similar season as Ronaldo (similar stats, similar no. of trophies, similar CL progress, similar league standings etc), which then depends on how well they progress in Euro/Copa if they want to compete in Ballon D’or again.

And of course there is also outside chance for players like De Bruyne etc, if he helps Belgium winning Euros and City winning treble.

What if England win Euro, Kane may even have an outside chance there. He is top goalscorer/assist in PL, his output matches or even better than any top players in world this season, and assuming that he is also top goalscorer and champion in Euro, he may win it.

Kane:
- 31 goals 17 assist in 45 games
- top goalscorer/assist in PL this season
- (assumingly finished as top goalscorer and won Euro for England )

Don’t get me wrong, Messi has been brilliant this year and I think he is currently the best player, but on current standings, he didn’t clearly stand out among top 5-6 players listed above, especially with other big factors coming to play in summer.
Ballon D’Or is based on calendar year accomplishments, not season.



Most goals+assists (top 5 league players) in year 2021 (club+country)

35 - Messi (26+9)

29 - Lewandowski (26+3)

26 - Gerard Moreno (19+7)

26 - Haaland (20+6)

26 - Mbappe (23+3)
 

Acheron

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It’s amazing that a player as gifted at so many aspects of the game as Messi, is so woeful at penalties.
He isn't bad at all, he isn't like the best ever but he's still very good at that and the best one in his team.
 

Maluco

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He isn't bad at all, he isn't like the best ever but he's still very good at that and the best one in his team.
You would never know he was the best in the team because he takes them, but 1 miss every 4 isn’t a good taker and any side would be looking at someone else I feel.

Obviously, you don’t tell a player like Messi what he can/can’t do. His penalty yesterday was really poor too.