Lionel Messi

BarcaSpurs

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
995
Was Roma the only big game Messi played in last season? Of course it wasn't. Any claims of Messi not being a big game player should be ridiculed.
He dragged them through against chelsea scoring 3 setting up the other in a 4-2 victory whilst chelsea completely dominated both legs and barca could barely string a chance together. Apparently unless he does this game in game out all the way through to them winning the thing then hes bottled the big matches.

If he dragged them through against Roma just for them to be blitzed by Liverpool people would still be saying the exact same things about his season.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
48,339
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
He dragged them through against chelsea scoring 3 setting up the other in a 4-2 victory whilst chelsea completely dominated both legs and barca could barely string a chance together. Apparently unless he does this game in game out all the way through to them winning the thing then hes bottled the big matches.

If he dragged them through against Roma just for them to be blitzed by Liverpool people would still be saying the exact same things about his season.
Not to talk of the big games in the league and Copa.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
10,362
Was Roma the only big game Messi played in last season? Of course it wasn't. Any claims of Messi not being a big game player should be ridiculed.
You can only laugh at the suggestion that he doesn't turn up for big games. Fecking ridiculous thing to say.
 

Ish

Lights on for Luke
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
32,142
Location
Voted the best city in the world
Was Roma the only big game Messi played in last season? Of course it wasn't. Any claims of Messi not being a big game player should be ridiculed.
Anyone who says or thinks this, is an idiot in my book and clearly either has an agenda or has basically never watched Messi play. It’d be the same if anyone said or thought the same of Ronaldo.

Can’t believe the level of garbage people spew to prove a point :lol:

Is it really so difficult to praise one without bringing the other into the discussion with nonsense claims and bias.
 

Scarecrow

Having a week off
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
12,299
He certainly showed up in the two finals against us, the (genius) cnut.
 

Ishdalar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
3,351
Location
Spain
Supports
Barcelona
You can have all that knowledge behind you but in that moment on the pitch when everything is going to shit nothing about the past matters, it's all about the present and players panicking and resorting to hoofball need one person to just say 'slow it down, calm down, start passing' and then lead by example and people will follow. We're mostly sheep at the end of the day looking for a shepherd. I know that through playing football myself and seeing the difference between players panicking and hoofballing to suddenly playing tiki-taka because they're taking a second to think about what they're doing after someone has told them.

Every time the camera focused on Messi during that Roma game it looked like he was doing nothing at all. It's similar to when everyone said Mascherano was the leader during the 2014 World Cup even though Messi got all the plaudits. Sometimes that warrior spirit is needed so that people can feel safe and secure knowing in that moment somebody is standing up proud and not just standing there looking dejected and sheepish. That visual and audible message coming from a leader can be enough to make everyone snap out of the panic and start doing things properly again.

You don't get it and that's fair enough but I've seen the evidence of it. Different times call for different leadership approaches and for many a time all it requires is for Messi to do his usual run past four/five challenges and either score or play an inch perfect pass and boom, goal and that's fine but those times come against easier opponents. When somebody actually puts pressure on you and you're seriously under the cosh, you need someone loud and proud to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck and everyone rallies behind them. Annoyingly Steven Gerrard was excellent at that and he's remembered the way he is because of that.

There are many, many occasions in the face of extreme pressure that Messi has wilted. Sometimes I agree that there isn't much he can do if his team mates have just lost it or they're not good enough but he so often looks like he can't be arsed in those moments and they leave a lasting impression just as much as his incredible goals, assists and dribbles do. Much like Ronaldo having a hissy fit is part and parcel of him when things go wrong, Messi turns into a shy little child.

Nobody is perfect and that is Messi's big flaw in amongst all of his amazing attributes.

Well, if you're prone to ignore that he's done all that throughout his career then sure, he lacks that.


But if you're actually fair to him, he's done it in a lot of games vs Real Madrid, Arsenal, Chelsea, Milan, Bayern, Atletico, Manchester or even finals vs 2nd fiddle teams (Sevilla or Athletic) when they tried to wipe him out of the game with fouls or Barcelona were inoperant. Nevermind the bunch of players that have tried to do the same on a weekly basis in la liga, which often end up ridiculised (special props to Espanyol here).

You're basically criticising him for not grabbing the bull by the horns in the Roma game here, no player has stepped into the pitch on every important match of his career and delivered a top performance of football and leadership, if you watch the game again (because I did, 3 times in the same week, and recorded clips that sadly I lost) you can see Messi dropping deep (as deep as to defend with the Right Back in two occassions) and try to start plays from a "5" position, things he couldn't do because our midfield sucks, we lacked mobility and he had a bunch of Roma player on him.

If you think that our players would feel more confident in watching a guy that carries a hierarchy every time he steps onto the pitch with him, a halo of him being untouchable for his teammates, losing his cool and start yelling like he's Roy Keane then that's your opinion, if I have the best player in the world in my team, he's famous for not losing his cool and suddenly I see him rattled, chances are I might become even more anxious.
 

MalcolmTucker

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,810
We're talking about a player with the most El Clasico goals of all time.

We're talking about a player that dribbled through half of the Real Madrid team to score in a CL semi-final.

We're talking about a player that dominated the best Man Utd defence I've ever seen regularly in CL finals and semi-finals.

A player that dribbled from the half-way line in a CDR final.

He and Barcelona haven't pulled up trees in the Champions League KO rounds for the last few years but that doesn't negate his performances in the CL prior to that, which surpass any other player's performances that I can remember
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
10,362
I remember watching this goal live on tv and just pissing myself laughing.

 

zing

Zingle balls
Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
13,806
Was Roma the only big game Messi played in last season? Of course it wasn't. Any claims of Messi not being a big game player should be ridiculed.
It's the stupidest thing I've read on here by far.
 

Scarecrow

Having a week off
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
12,299
There was already plenty of Messi threads, hence my question, but since everyone is posting here, I’m replying here.

Is that so difficult to understand?
There is one about his contract and the last post is from almost a year ago. The rest are rubbish.
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,976
Must be a luxury for Ronaldo to not show up at all in the semi finals and final of CL and have competent teammates who can finish the job. If Messi played as poorly as Ronaldo did in any round Barca never advances
Somehow that argument didn’t matter when Messi had the better team mates, would he even have made the CL final if it wasn’t for the incompetence of Ovebro + a moment of genius by Iniesta?
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,976
At the end of the day, he's just one player and there's other 21 in the pitch.

What is he supposed to do when Roma bait Barcelona into playing hoofball, put 3 players covering him and suddenly Valverde's plan to counter that is to replicate the hoofball?. Game turned to a duel of Dzeko and Schick vs Pique and Umtiti in one side, and Suarez vs Fazio, Manolas and Juan Jesus on the other while Messi had 2 to 3 players covering him and the rest of our team did nothing, he's the best for a certain set of skills, but going Tony Pulis isn't one of them, and Roma aren't the first ones to lead us into a game of aerial duels to neuter what Messi can do with a ball in the ground.

The fact that someone can blame Leo for what happened that game, when the manager had every resource in the bench to turn the game around will baffle me everytime.
Put away the sitter he missed?

The fact some people think Messi doesn’t share the blame of the capitulation to Roma still baffles me.
 

Ishdalar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
3,351
Location
Spain
Supports
Barcelona
Put away the sitter he missed?

The fact some people think Messi doesn’t share the blame of the capitulation to Roma still baffles me.
A sitter (I laugh at calling that sitter) he himself fabricated out of nowhere, it's not like Maradona dribbled 6 defenders and put Messi a pass in front of the goal, only for him to miss it Abreu style.

But yeah, knowing you, that single half a chance he had to earn will be enough for you to bash him for the next decade as a culprit of how Barcelona lost a leg vs Roma.
 

MalcolmTucker

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,810
Somehow that argument didn’t matter when Messi had the better team mates, would he even have made the CL final if it wasn’t for the incompetence of Ovebro + a moment of genius by Iniesta?
Except Messi played far better in that game than Ronaldo played semi-final and final games last season. Both have had good luck, both have been in amazing teams, but if you actually judge their individual performances over their careers then Messi will always come out on top.
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,976
A sitter (I laugh at calling that sitter) he himself fabricated out of nowhere, it's not like Maradona dribbled 6 defenders and put Messi a pass in front of the goal, only for him to miss it Abreu style.

But yeah, knowing you, that single half a chance he had to earn will be enough for you to bash him for the next decade as a culprit of how Barcelona lost a leg vs Roma.
He fabricated that chance? A couple of lucky bounces and a fluffed shot? :lol:

The fact is he was nowhere to be seen the whole game
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,976
Except Messi played far better in that game than Ronaldo played semi-final and final games last season. Both have had good luck, both have been in amazing teams, but if you actually judge their individual performances over their careers then Messi will always come out on top.
He played better in that game where Chelsea should have won 4 or 5-1? Some performance...

Some people drool over Messi’s performances regardless of what happened in the game. If his team lost, somehow it’s always the team mates letting him down?
 

SteveW

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
7,194
Except Messi played far better in that game than Ronaldo played semi-final and final games last season. Both have had good luck, both have been in amazing teams, but if you actually judge their individual performances over their careers then Messi will always come out on top.
This really. I get that many people really like Ronaldo but I don't get how they can really be seen as comparable. They score a similar amount but Messi plays a much bigger part in the rest of a game. He's much more complete and rounded. Real winning the CL each year doesn't change that.
 

Ishdalar

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
3,351
Location
Spain
Supports
Barcelona
Somehow that argument didn’t matter when Messi had the better team mates, would he even have made the CL final if it wasn’t for the incompetence of Ovebro + a moment of genius by Iniesta?
In a career of 675 games and 570 goals you're still pining over a single game that happened 10 years ago, I'm starting to believe you're Michael Ballack.
 

Daysleeper

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
4,790
Supports
Barcelona
In a career of 675 games and 570 goals you're still pining over a single game that happened 10 years ago, I'm starting to believe you're Michael Ballack.
On top of which how many offside goals did Madrid get away with themselves in CL? Atletico and Bayern have a lot to be sore about
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,976
In a career of 675 games and 570 goals you're still pining over a single game that happened 10 years ago, I'm starting to believe you're Michael Ballack.
The one very very unfair game that changed everything, United would likely have been the first team to retain the CL.

Barca not only do not win 6 trophies that season, they don't even win the biggest one.
 

Daysleeper

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
4,790
Supports
Barcelona
The one very very unfair game that changed everything, United would likely have been the first team to retain the CL.

Barca not only do not win 6 trophies that season, they don't even win the biggest one.
And if Ramos’s offside goal in the 2016 final against Atletico doesn’t count or Robaldo’s Offside goals again Bayern then there is no three peat for Madrid and they go trophyless
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
17,090
Pretty obvious really by looking at the rest of the top teams in european football. Don't even think anyone gets close.

Might start a thread on it if people disagree though. Who would you say has a better squad than Barcelona?
Real Madrid have a better squad than Barcelona.
 

VBI

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Messages
681
Supports
Celtic, Barca
Messi set up Iniesta in that Chelsea game to score, btw. :eek:
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,723
Location
Inside right
Why does every Messi thread have to devolve into the same, tired nonsense? :boring:

Can there never be a thread for him that just talks about his current form and performance?
 

Zehner

Football Statistics Dork
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
8,092
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Why does every Messi thread have to devolve into the same, tired nonsense? :boring:

Can there never be a thread for him that just talks about his current form and performance?
I blame it on the Ronaldo bias in this forum. You only have to look at the top posters of these threads. Or how long it took for this thread to be brought up again although Messi started brillantly in the season in a relatively stark contrast to the Portuguese. It is only natural that you have many Cristiano supporters in here and it irks them if people prefer his biggest perceived rival. That alone is not bad thing at all but this constant downplaying of Messi to make CR7 look better annoys me. Guess that's just human nature.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,723
Location
Inside right
I blame it on the Ronaldo bias in this forum. You only have to look at the top posters of these threads. Or how long it took for this thread to be brought up again although Messi started brillantly in the season in a relatively stark contrast to the Portuguese. It is only natural that you have many Cristiano supporters in here and it irks them if people prefer his biggest perceived rival. That alone is not bad thing at all but this constant downplaying of Messi to make CR7 look better annoys me. Guess that's just human nature.
A Messi thread should be made that literally prevents keywords being used and flags repeat-spammers for thread-banning, so that the repetitive dross is at least kept out of one Messi thread.

Was enjoying this one before became as generic as literally all the others.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,328
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
I am (unfortunately) old enough to have seen Maradona, and he was quite honestly nowhere near Messi. He was more a mercurial player, who would produce moments of absolute brilliance. He was more like Ronaldinho than Messi.

The reasons he is compared to Messi are that he was the best player (for a much shorter period of time) in his day, he is also Argentinian, and he had a similar stature to Messi. He doesn't physically resemble Ronaldinho, so it's not such an obvious comparison, but in fact his style of play was much more like the Brazilian than Messi.

You would never see Maradona do what Messi did yesterday, and drop right back into midfield to link the play. Although he had exceptional technical ability, he wasn't really a player to make Xavi-like slide-rule passes in the final third, just as Ronaldinho wasn't. He was an attacker, he didn't combine the qualities of a midfielder and a forward as Messi does.
You really need to watch some more of Maradona.
 

Lay

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
19,933
Location
England
Would love to see a Messi thread that doesn’t have the same tired old debate
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
24,524
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
This Messi guy is pretty good honestly. If he keeps this up he might become the new Frenkie de Jong.
 

Schneckerl

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
2,704
You would never see Maradona do what Messi did yesterday, and drop right back into midfield to link the play. Although he had exceptional technical ability, he wasn't really a player to make Xavi-like slide-rule passes in the final third, just as Ronaldinho wasn't. He was an attacker, he didn't combine the qualities of a midfielder and a forward as Messi does.
Maradona played as a midfielder until 1979, when he was moved to a forwards role.
 

RooneyLegend

New Member
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
12,963
You really need to watch some more of Maradona.
True, can't imagine Maradona being nowhere near another footballer especially citing all pitch presence as the reason. Something that he specifically was king at.
 

totaalvoetbal

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
865
Location
Netherlands
Supports
Ajax
The level of consistency he has in his game is frightening. He is on a podium by himself. Some players are close to him in dribbling, some players are close to him in passing, some players are as good at him at finishing, but no other combines all attributes with such ruthless effeciency.