Lionel Messi

FujiVice

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Modric never won the world cup. Why are people saying this?
 

JPRouve

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But my argument is why is it 'team performance orientated' some years and others not. If it's for the best player then why did Modric and Cannavaro win it?
It's not team performance oriented, the individual performances in certain tournaments will have more weights certain years, bascially WC years. And Modric was designated as the best player at the World Cup, he was arguably the best performer in CL and was arguably the second best player in La Liga behind Messi. That's why he won it.

Cannavaro was seen as one of the best performers during the season and one of the best performers at the World Cup in a team that was excellent. Now if my memory serves me well Pirlo, Totti and Zidane should have been above him but Italy's stingy defense made the difference.
 

kouroux

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But my argument is why is it 'team performance orientated' some years and others not. If it's for the best player then why did Modric and Cannavaro win it?
Because it's down to a vote and certain people will view things very differently. There is no real logic being followed here, it's not wise to try to find some sense into it.
I know one thing, each time the Ballon d'Or is only focused with journos and not FIFA, World Cup winners or best performers have always won it in this system. That was the case with Modric, with Cannavaro, with R9 (who barely played club football that year), with Zidane in 98.
 

kouroux

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It's not team performance oriented, the individual performances in certain tournaments will have more weights certain years, bascially WC years. And Modric was designated as the best player at the World Cup, he was arguably the best performer in CL and was arguably the second best player in La Liga behind Messi. That's why he won it.

Cannavaro was seen as one of the best performers during the season and one of the best performers at the World Cup in a team that was excellent. Now if my memory serves me well Pirlo, Totti and Zidane should have been above him but Italy's stingy defense made the difference.
Fans have to also remember that the voting system changed for the Ballon d'Or once and now we are back with the old system therefore Word Cup winners or performers will always have the advantage for the B.O in a World Cup year. France not having one player truly above the rest of the pack did help Modric too.
When the award was linked with FIFA, the World Cup didn't have this much importance.
 

JPRouve

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Fans have to also remember that the voting system changed for the Ballon d'Or once and now we are back with the old system therefore Word Cup winners or performers will always have the advantage for the B.O in a World Cup year. France not having one player truly above the rest of the pack did help Modric too.
When the award was linked with FIFA, the World Cup didn't have this much importance.
Exactly. In theroy with the return of the old version, silverware and popularity won't matter as much. What will matter is how you perform in the main tournaments World Cup, Copa Ameria, Euro, CL and the top leagues. During World Cup years, your performances during the tournament will have an impact as it was the case for Modric.
 

zkap

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It was never supposed to be that though. It's an individual award for all of the players in the world. Instead of the last few years it turned into a club player of the season award for the CL winning team. People started calling it a farce when Ronaldo kept winning it despite not always being the best player. That was the shift that shouldn't have happened.

Messi was the best player of 2019 by a distance. He won La Liga on his own. Barca are a very poor side these days. He was even the best player over the Liverpool Barca semi final tie but was left down by Barca's defence. It will be a disgrace if he doesn't get it.
I agree with every sentence.
 

VanKenny

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Yet another MOTM and 10/10 whoscored.com performance from Messi on the CL


Im sure he has that record BY FAR, most MOTM on a career and most 10/10 performances
 

Harry190

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Tired of this dude. Someone tell him to retire. So good he makes the whole thing pointless.
 

Pow

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I hate how "standard" his performances seem to me. Especially the assist for griezman the trademark shimmy and the inch perfect pass that doesnt require a touch past being finished first time.
Hes by far the best player ive ever seen. So much that 10/10 performances he does just get a standard yeah well thats what he does because hes messi.
 

Seaman

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As a football fan of his team I don’t think it’s healthy to have watched him all this years. After getting use to him it will ruin all your sense of what’s a very good player or a great player as he makes everyone look like decent. He is just something else. Probably lab made
 

Bebestation

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As a football fan of his team I don’t think it’s healthy to have watched him all this years. After getting use to him it will ruin all your sense of what’s a very good player or a great player as he makes everyone look like decent. He is just something else. Probably lab made
He was to be fair - he was given growth hormone injections to help him grow when he was younger, without that we don't know how small he would be.
 

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He was to be fair - he was given growth hormone injections to help him grow when he was younger, without that we don't know how small he would be.

Yeah, to cure a disease. Messi signed for Barca because they offered to pay his treatment, he was already a phenomenon back then (scoring what, a hundred goals in one of his youth seasons?) because otherwise Barca obviously wouldn't have given a shit about him. You fanboys pretend his treatment was what made him the player he is when his low center of gravity, acceleration and of course technical skill was already there for everyone to see way before.

Also, the Messi of the last two to three years is probably as good as his prime version although he's not relying on his athlecism that much anymore. Pure skill which you can't learn from pills.

But I guess for you people everything is fine if it makes Cristiano look better. Disgusting.
 

Bebestation

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Yeah, to cure a disease. Messi signed for Barca because they offered to pay his treatment, he was already a phenomenon back then (scoring what, a hundred goals in one of his youth seasons?) because otherwise Barca obviously wouldn't have given a shit about him. You fanboys pretend his treatment was what made him the player he is when his low center of gravity, acceleration and of course technical skill was already there for everyone to see way before.

Also, the Messi of the last two to three years is probably as good as his prime version although he's not relying on his athlecism that much anymore. Pure skill which you can't learn from pills.

But I guess for you people everything is fine if it makes Cristiano look better. Disgusting.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world.amp.html

Lance Armstrong type footballer. The fact is, whether it was for purely medical reasons or not - Messi would no where to be seen in the modern game without those injections.
 

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No amount of treatment can make you the most technically gifted player ever to play the game.
 

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world.amp.html

Lance Armstrong type footballer. The fact is, whether it was for purely medical reasons or not - Messi would no where to be seen in the modern game without those injections.

Are you even capable of reading? Jesus fecking Christ, the author of the article you postedcouldn't possibly disagree more with the opinion you are facilitating. He literally said that the treatment allowed Messi to live a normal life. It was a disease, a medical condition you genius. Lance Armstrong - the athlete you are comparing him with - was someone who did drugs solely for the purpose of performance enhancements. You are comparing a teenager who took hormones so that he would not end up severely handicapped with a person who created a criminal network in order to cloak his doping.

So yes, without growth hormones Messi wouldn't be as good as he is because he'd be literally handicapped. What type of argument is that to begin with, anyway? Do you even realize what kind of life most of us would live without modern medication like antibiotics, vaccines, etc? Man, you are so deluded, it's unreal.
 

VanKenny

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Come on guys dont feed the troll.

"You took a shot for the flu yesterday? You cheating bastard how do you dare playing today, its not fair that we have no advantages over you"
 

bakalhau

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world.amp.html

Lance Armstrong type footballer. The fact is, whether it was for purely medical reasons or not - Messi would no where to be seen in the modern game without those injections.
Well, I mean, if the treatment didn't in fact help Messi he wouldn't have taken it... That's the main reason you do treatments of any sort.

Leaving out Lance's doping, if he hadn't had the cancer he had, he might've never lost the weight he needed to lose to go from a classic/1-day riderr to a 3 week rider...


There's barely any point talking about ifs and buts and certainly there's many valid arguments "against" Messi and his level other than this one...
 

SteveW

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Well, I mean, if the treatment didn't in fact help Messi he wouldn't have taken it... That's the main reason you do treatments of any sort.

Leaving out Lance's doping, if he hadn't had the cancer he had, he might've never lost the weight he needed to lose to go from a classic/1-day riderr to a 3 week rider...


There's barely any point talking about ifs and buts and certainly there's many valid arguments "against" Messi and his level other than this one...
:houllier:
 

MrEleson

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I guess you could spin it on it's head and take it as a huge compliment to Messi's ability in that he's a freak.
 

VBI

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Pfft. Nike wouldn't even exist if people didn't grow their own feet.
 

Shamana

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People dont get hrt. Its just about normalizing your hormones through replacement therapy. It givea you no edge what so ever and top athelets dont lack growth hormone in anyway since hard exercise keeps llvs. high
 

amolbhatia50k

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People dont get hrt. Its just about normalizing your hormones through replacement therapy. It givea you no edge what so ever and top athelets dont lack growth hormone in anyway since hard exercise keeps llvs. high
It's a moronic argument. What next? A player's achievements questioned because
- He got treated at the hospital for a disease? Definitely wouldn't have been great/alive/normal without it.
- Got financial aid ? Wouldn't have been able to persue football as a career without it.
- Had emotional support when he needed it? Wouldn't have been able to develop his mentality without it.

The above questions would be silly just like this one is. The question is whether the sportsman got an undue advantage or treatment to heal/recover from an illness/deficiency. Clearly in Messi's case it's the latter.
 

BarcaSpurs

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Yet another MOTM and 10/10 whoscored.com performance from Messi on the CL


Im sure he has that record BY FAR, most MOTM on a career and most 10/10 performances
since whoscored started doing it, he hit 100 10/10 performances back in october, Ronaldo second on 36. Ridiculous.
 

roonster09

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since whoscored started doing it, he hit 100 10/10 performances back in october, Ronaldo second on 36. Ridiculous.
Wow, they started around 10 years back, so he is averaging 10 10/10 performance a season.
 

C_Senior

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Most naturally gifted mastermind of a footballer I've ever seen.
 

Shamana

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It's a moronic argument. What next? A player's achievements questioned because
- He got treated at the hospital for a disease? Definitely wouldn't have been great/alive/normal without it.
- Got financial aid ? Wouldn't have been able to persue football as a career without it.
- Had emotional support when he needed it? Wouldn't have been able to develop his mentality without it.

The above questions would be silly just like this one is. The question is whether the sportsman got an undue advantage or treatment to heal/recover from an illness/deficiency. Clearly in Messi's case it's the latter.
Actually naturally producing your own hormones is far better than HRT. HRT can come with negative side effects.
 

VanKenny

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since whoscored started doing it, he hit 100 10/10 performances back in october, Ronaldo second on 36. Ridiculous.
Thats absolutely ridiculous. That means almost 15% of all the matches he has played in his career were absolutely perfect games. Considering an 8/10 is a great game, i wonder what % of his career has he played a great game or better. Must be around 80%.

Also, how many MOTM does he have? How many times has he been the best player on the pitch? That must be another mindblowing stat.
 

VanKenny

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Someone with a bite to his game.

ETA list reads:

Messi - 100
C. Ronaldo - 36
L. Suarez - 27
Neymar - 23
Aguero - 17
Robben - 17
Zlatan - 16
Hazard - 12
Lewandowski - 10
Müller - 10
Ribery - 10
Wow, i didnt see that one coming. Honestly i thought it would be someone like Iniesta, i was WAY off.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Wow, i didnt see that one coming. Honestly i thought it would be someone like Iniesta, i was WAY off.
Says a great deal about the value of sheer (goals and assists, basically) figures, I'd say. Or how those sheer figures are valued, more specifically.

The player you mention was obviously - I would say - better than any number of players on that list in the relevant time frame. And there isn't a single player on it who can be classed as anything but an "attacker" (in whatever capacity).
 

Bole Top

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it's simply insane how much better he is than everyone else. goals and assists aside, just watching him along player like Griezz in games against Dortmund and Atletico for example highlights the most how good he is. Griezz is a quality player, we all know that, yet the difference between them was like watching R9 and, I don't know, Sonny Anderson. literally worlds apart.

if my job was to do the ratings for players in FM or PES, I'd have to either lower everyone's elses or simply make an exception for Messi and give him something like 30 or 150 in dribbling and finishing because not a single player should have comparable attributes to him. for example, if you give Griezz 18 in finishing and you give Messi 19 or 20, that's just crazy... I know it's just a game, it just crossed my mind after watching them in their last 2 games.
 

VanKenny

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it's simply insane how much better he is than everyone else. goals and assists aside, just watching him along player like Griezz in games against Dortmund and Atletico for example highlights the most how good he is. Griezz is a quality player, we all know that, yet the difference between them was like watching R9 and, I don't know, Sonny Anderson. literally worlds apart.

if my job was to do the ratings for players in FM or PES, I'd have to either lower everyone's elses or simply make an exception for Messi and give him something like 30 or 150 in dribbling and finishing because not a single player should have comparable attributes to him. for example, if you give Griezz 18 in finishing and you give Messi 19 or 20, that's just crazy... I know it's just a game, it just crossed my mind after watching them in their last 2 games.

Im more familiar with FIFA ratings. Currently, Messi is a 94, then CR7 a 93 and i think Neymar a 92, and maybe Hazard i dont remember.

It really should be Messi 94, then CR7 83, Neymar 82 etc. And pretty much thats how it should have been the last 10 years or so. Hes on a league of his own and nobody comes close.