Lionel Messi

GiddyUp

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Bipolar much :houllier::lol: ? Who said anything about "getting his arse sniffed" ? You know there also exists a middle ground I hope.
Bipolar?
 

Cloud7

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I think some United fans hate Messi more than Real Madrid and Espanol Barcelona fans
Very bizarre. The man virtually said we were enslaving him.
I am seeing posts calling Messi a disgrace...I don't get it.
It’s one of the stranger things you see on here, definitely. I think a lot of it comes from the god like worship of Ronaldo that a lot of United fans still have despite the fact that he agreed with comments that we were enslaving him. I literally see Madrid fans with less dislike for Messi than United fans on here.
 

devilish

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So? In 81 they finished third, and two years later they flirted with relegation. Maradona was signed in 84 and the team was revamped following that purchase. Your explanations are too simplistic.
So let's go in some detail shall we? Maradona played in the golden age of the Serie A, when Italy had by far the best defenders in the world. We are talking here about the likes of Baresi, Scirea, Cabrini, Bergomi, Vierchowood and co, players who are way better then what Messi had faced in the Liga. It was the time of the catenaccio and a time when defenders would go hard on strikers without seeing a straight red. Which kind of explains why strikers would end up Serie A top scorer with less then 20 goals (ex Platini in 84-85, Pruzzo in 1985-1986 and Virdis in 1986-1987), why players like Vialli who scored 12 goals in 1986-1987 or Rummenigge who scored 13 goals in 1985-1986 were considered to have had a great season and why the likes of Ian Rush, Denis Bergkamp and Darko Pancev had failed so spectacularly in the Serie A.

Messi is a tremendous player who played for a tremendous side. Maradona lead a less then perfect Napoli to Serie A success. He lead a less then perfect Argentina to the WC. Please distinguish between an important cog of a perfect system and a maestro.
 

jeff_goldblum

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Serious question for those who have done their reading: is La Liga ruling against Messi re: the release clause a hugely inappropriate show of self interest which should be widely condemned, or is it just the right call legally?
 

Ace of Spades

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Neither side comes out of it looking good.
 

RedRonaldo

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I think it's similar to why lots of people prefer Batman to Superman or Iron Man to Captain America. Messi has a cookie-cutter public personality that tries to do no wrong and has no edge to it - that's enough to make a lot of people dislike him.

In most mainstream TV shows nowadays the main protagonists tend to have many flaws (like someone you'd met in real life often does) and are quite often antagonistic and combative. In contrast, the public personality of Messi (or shall I say lack thereof) can often be seen as fake and pretentious these days.

The dynamics between opinions on Messi and Ronaldo is also far from being just about an ex-United star player and someone who led the team that defeated United twice in a UCL final. The key point is that people often root for underdogs. A lot would say that Ronaldo is the underdog between the two, because football fans traditionally value passing and dribbling brilliance so much, and for this reason Ronaldo will never be as appreciated as Messi from a traditional viewpoint. The fact that Ronaldo completely revamped his way of playing and astonishingly clawed back a 1-4 deficit in Ballon d'or count is enough for his fans to view him as the greatest of all time, and desparately root for his continued success so that he can finish what he started and decidedly surpass Messi.

Yet, no matter what Ronaldo has and will accomplish, it may still not be enough to persuade the football traditionalists, simply because Messi is just too good on the ball for their opinion to be swayed. Some may also view Messi as the underdog due to his past problem with body height.
This is actually one of the reason why I always prefer Ronaldo, although I don’t really hate Messi and do enjoy watching both.
 

B20

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Serious question for those who have done their reading: is La Liga ruling against Messi re: the release clause a hugely inappropriate show of self interest which should be widely condemned, or is it just the right call legally?
My first thought was that la liga is obviously tending to its own self interest here.
 

Pretzels81

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Messi will be 34 when/if he leaves Barcelona in May/June 2021. That's the age when TopTop players used to retire in the 90's and 00's. I don't get why people keep thinking Messi will be a TopTop3 player as a 35-40 yo. He's a lot slower now and seems jaded (Roma, Anfield, Lisboa, WC'18).

From now on, I can only picture him as a classic N°10 or a SS behind the CF, giving assists and scoring sitters (goal poacher). The 05-15 days as a RFW/CF are long gone (as fast as the Flash and unstoppable, even with mean tackles).
 

Zehner

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Messi will be 34 when/if he leaves Barcelona in May/June 2021. That's the age when TopTop players used to retire in the 90's and 00's. I don't get why people keep thinking Messi will be a TopTop3 player as a 35-40 yo. He's a lot slower now and seems jaded (Roma, Anfield, Lisboa, WC'18).

From now on, I can only picture him as a classic N°10, giving assists and scoring sitters. The 05-15 days are long gone (fast as the Flash and unstoppable).
Have you seen many games of him this past season? He still maintains an insane level. There's a reason Guardiola went in head first when he saw the chance of signing him.
 

Zehner

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No mate, no; not in the UCL or with Argentina (facing top opposition).
No top player had. Neymar, Mbappe, Messi, Hazard, Cristiano, they were all rather underwhelming in the important matches this season. It wasn't a good year for the clubs employing those players. It's a huge difference if you can work your magic on the foundation of a well rounded and organized team or have to make due with what you have. Put any of those players in a functioning top team like Bayern, Liverpool or City and they look totally different.
 

Baneofthegame

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Just don’t see how people think Messi will fall off a cliff at 34? He’ll be a top 5 player for at least a couple of seasons.
 

Acheron

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Messi will be 34 when/if he leaves Barcelona in May/June 2021. That's the age when TopTop players used to retire in the 90's and 00's. I don't get why people keep thinking Messi will be a TopTop3 player as a 35-40 yo. He's a lot slower now and seems jaded (Roma, Anfield, Lisboa, WC'18).

From now on, I can only picture him as a classic N°10 or a SS behind the CF, giving assists and scoring sitters (goal poacher). The 05-15 days as a RFW/CF are long gone (as fast as the Flash and unstoppable, even with mean tackles).
Yeah, probably he won't be the type of player he was in his younger days but if he leaves I believe his performances are going to depend more of the team he arrives and system they play. Also the sport has evolved and progress to the point a professional footballer can maintain a better shape past 30 years but that depends more on Messi so I think it's possible for him to get a couple of seasons at a good physical level if he takes care of himself and his team knows how to administrate him.

Generally a team would want him to be in constant contact with the ball but he's also very effective within the box with his left foot so yeah, maybe something like playing like a 10 or false striker would suit him under a team that can keep long possessions of the ball. The problem for him is when people, or his team, expects him to carry the ball from his own to do the build up and also finish the plays; he can't do that so he needs to be closer to goal if people expect him to score.
 

RashyForPM

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No top player had. Neymar, Mbappe, Messi, Hazard, Cristiano, they were all rather underwhelming in the important matches this season. It wasn't a good year for the clubs employing those players. It's a huge difference if you can work your magic on the foundation of a well rounded and organized team or have to make due with what you have. Put any of those players in a functioning top team like Bayern, Liverpool or City and they look totally different.
You say no top player had, but that’s frankly nonsense. Neymar and Mbappe were brilliant until the final, albeit they couldn’t score, Cristiano had a sensational game against Lyon and was the definition of a carrier and Lewandowski was so good he deserved the Ballon D’or over the usual two. Even Messi danced past Napoli. Literally only Hazard didn’t pull his weight in big games this season.
 

Samid

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Bartomeu will ask Messi to lower his salary in his first face to face after staying one more year at Barça

Messi, as re-elected captain, will show his face for the dressing room
 

Zehner

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You say no top player had, but that’s frankly nonsense. Neymar and Mbappe were brilliant until the final, albeit they couldn’t score, Cristiano had a sensational game against Lyon and was the definition of a carrier and Lewandowski was so good he deserved the Ballon D’or over the usual two. Even Messi danced past Napoli. Literally only Hazard didn’t pull his weight in big games this season.
Well, that's what I mean. When you're playing against smaller teams, they are most likely inferior quality-wise. So they'll usually drop deep, surrender the midfield and grant you lots of possession. The best attackers are excellent at tearing that defensive block down. Some, like Neymar, Messi or Hazard like dropping deep and creating something from there. Others like Cristiano or Mbappe like focusing on the final third to do their magic. Thing is, when you face a well drilled machine like Bayern, this "give the ball to Messi at the halfway line and see what happens" won't work because they've got a different quality, both as a collective as well as individually. So what happens is that they'll suffocate you. They'll prevent your best players from getting on the ball in dangerous positions. We've seen this countless times in the last decade, IMO.

They are the difference makers but in order to work their magic they need to be provided a platform. It doesn't need to be as good as Barcelona 09-12 but at least a team on eye level. But if the opponent operates so much better as a collective, it gets very, very hard. I think we've seen this in so many different shapes and forms, not only regarding Messi and Ronaldo or Mbappe and Neymar.
 

Bastian

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Bartomeu will ask Messi to lower his salary in his first face to face after staying one more year at Barça

Messi, as re-elected captain, will show his face for the dressing room
Haha. The nerve. Surely he will tell them to f off.
 

432JuanMata

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I’ve seen posters say he runs the club/using or controlling Barcelona but he wants to wins the CL and be at the top level(Barca should be). I miss having players like that the Keanes, Vidic’s and loads more, players that wouldn’t accept our position we are in right now. We as a club are one of the biggest in the world like Barca and over the last 7 years we have averaged league positions around the level of Spurs. Messi wants what is best for him(winning trophies) and what is the best for Barca also winning trophies
 

Ranchero

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You might as well have started a thread headlined "Eusebio". There is as much chance of him being part of our squad.
 

SilentWitness

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It must be great being the best footballer in the world and being able to say whatever the feck you want about your club because they know that losing you will be significantly worse than you saying how shit they are.
 

LoneStar

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I don't think I've ever seen such open mutiny in football. It's incredible.

Wow didn’t know things were so ugly. Credit to Messi for being direct. But this should not be acceptable even for a legend at a club like Barca. Literally the only big club being run worse than us :lol:
 

Snow

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Domenech sends Anelka home lying about why. Players take it badly, press make it worse. Domenech does nothing to calm the players or correct the press and basically watches it like nightwatchman Milhouse. As a NT manager you mostly have to create a good atmosphere for players. One of the reasons why NT managers aren't good with player experimentation, usually relying on the same players. Domenech destroyed the dressing room. Even says still on wiki that Anelka told Domenech to feck off but he never admitted to that, media took his silence as a yes. In his doc he says he didn't say that and Domenech said in a recent interview that never happened either. Just didn't bother correcting it at all.

With Barca Koeman comes into a team that's in dissaray and he starts by saying to Suarez that he's not wanted. Of course that's going to make things worse. He's been there 6 years, has scored 198 goals for the club and is mates with Messi. What a dumb thing to do. If Suarez wasn't such a cnut of a man we'd be more outraged by this as football fans.
 

mshnsh

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So let's go in some detail shall we? Maradona played in the golden age of the Serie A, when Italy had by far the best defenders in the world. We are talking here about the likes of Baresi, Scirea, Cabrini, Bergomi, Vierchowood and co, players who are way better then what Messi had faced in the Liga. It was the time of the catenaccio and a time when defenders would go hard on strikers without seeing a straight red. Which kind of explains why strikers would end up Serie A top scorer with less then 20 goals (ex Platini in 84-85, Pruzzo in 1985-1986 and Virdis in 1986-1987), why players like Vialli who scored 12 goals in 1986-1987 or Rummenigge who scored 13 goals in 1985-1986 were considered to have had a great season and why the likes of Ian Rush, Denis Bergkamp and Darko Pancev had failed so spectacularly in the Serie A.

Messi is a tremendous player who played for a tremendous side. Maradona lead a less then perfect Napoli to Serie A success. He lead a less then perfect Argentina to the WC. Please distinguish between an important cog of a perfect system and a maestro.
It is a myth that Maradona played for an average Napoli side. No doubt, he was their best player but Napoli signed more than just Maradona.

It is also a myth that the 1986 Argentina side he played was for average; they had some good players.

Just as it is also a myth that Maradona was poor at Barcelona. He had bad luck with injuries.

It is a myth that Messi has been poor for Argentina. He was far better at cope America 2015 and 2016 than Cristiano has ever been at any meaningful international tournaments.

It is also a myth that Messi only played and shone with great Barcelona teams; the Barcelona teams of the last 4 seasons have been Messi and nothing else.
 

mshnsh

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Wow didn’t know things were so ugly. Credit to Messi for being direct. But this should not be acceptable even for a legend at a club like Barca. Literally the only big club being run worse than us :lol:
The 2 worst run clubs in the world; at the top is Barcelona and second is Man utd; interms of longevity, it is Barcelona as well followed by United.
 

LoneStar

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The 2 worst run clubs in the world; at the top is Barcelona and second is Man utd; interms of longevity, it is Barcelona as well followed by United.
I mean you could argue that United is being run exactly as the Glazers want, but this kind of blatant hostile approach to the club wouldn’t be tolerated at United. I hope.
 

Betson

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This is all ending rather bitterly for Barcelona and Messi , he is effectively on a work to rule basis to see out his contract.

I think Barcelona are been shortsighted here , they should take the money off City and let him go. it is just going to get more and more bitter the longer he is forced to stay there , it is going to consume the whole season.
 

meneillosRC

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I don't think most of you truly realise how awful the board is. In my view, considering Messi's contributions on the field for a decade and a half and the utter incompetence and corruption of a board that has all but destroyed the club for years to come (with the complicity and constant manipulation and whitewashing by the crooked mainstream football press, mostly in their pockets), I'm fine with some hostility, tbf.
 

Marcosdeto

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It is a myth that Maradona played for an average Napoli side. No doubt, he was their best player but Napoli signed more than just Maradona.

It is also a myth that the 1986 Argentina side he played was for average; they had some good players.

Just as it is also a myth that Maradona was poor at Barcelona. He had bad luck with injuries.

It is a myth that Messi has been poor for Argentina. He was far better at cope America 2015 and 2016 than Cristiano has ever been at any meaningful international tournaments.

It is also a myth that Messi only played and shone with great Barcelona teams; the Barcelona teams of the last 4 seasons have been Messi and nothing else.
correct
First of, Napoli with maradona won 2 scudettos, that's hardly a great achivement if we take in consideration that time Hellas Verona and Sampdoria also won scudettos
That shows that the Italian Big Teams weren't having a great moment
Also, with argentina he won the world cup, but he didnt do it all by himself like some posters say.
With him played Independiente players: won the libertadores cup in 1984 and beat Liverpool in the Intercontinental Cup
Argentinos Juniors players: won the libertadores cup in 1985 and lost against Platini's Juventus on penalty kicks
River Plate players: won the 1986 libertadores cup and the intercontinental cup
So Maradona hardly played alone
 

Hoof The Ball

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People seeing this as Messi vs. Barcelona obviously are misinformed. Spend more than ten minutes on a Barça forum or its sub-reddit and understand why Bartomeu is universally disliked and has been for a number of years. What you'll realise is that this is Messi vs. Bartomeu, but also realise that a great number of socio's are against Bartomeu, as are most fans, as are a great deal of ex-players, and most likely current players (if they ever spoke out).

This is not Messi vs. Barça.
 

Devil81

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Just don't understand why they don't try and get a transfer fee for him now, if he was placed on the open market he'd be snapped up no problem and they'd have the money to invest in a replacement.

He clearly doesn't want to be there.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Domenech sends Anelka home lying about why. Players take it badly, press make it worse. Domenech does nothing to calm the players or correct the press and basically watches it like nightwatchman Milhouse. As a NT manager you mostly have to create a good atmosphere for players. One of the reasons why NT managers aren't good with player experimentation, usually relying on the same players. Domenech destroyed the dressing room. Even says still on wiki that Anelka told Domenech to feck off but he never admitted to that, media took his silence as a yes. In his doc he says he didn't say that and Domenech said in a recent interview that never happened either. Just didn't bother correcting it at all.

With Barca Koeman comes into a team that's in dissaray and he starts by saying to Suarez that he's not wanted. Of course that's going to make things worse. He's been there 6 years, has scored 198 goals for the club and is mates with Messi. What a dumb thing to do. If Suarez wasn't such a cnut of a man we'd be more outraged by this as football fans.
Sounds similar to Koeman at Valencia. That didn't end very well...
 

devilish

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It is a myth that Maradona played for an average Napoli side. No doubt, he was their best player but Napoli signed more than just Maradona.

It is also a myth that the 1986 Argentina side he played was for average; they had some good players.

Just as it is also a myth that Maradona was poor at Barcelona. He had bad luck with injuries.

It is a myth that Messi has been poor for Argentina. He was far better at cope America 2015 and 2016 than Cristiano has ever been at any meaningful international tournaments.

It is also a myth that Messi only played and shone with great Barcelona teams; the Barcelona teams of the last 4 seasons have been Messi and nothing else.
Both Napoli nor Argentina were nowhere near to win what they won without him. He lead them, he dragged them to success and he did so at a time when defensive football reigned, when football was far more physical and also at the golden age of defenders. If you think that Napoli was anywhere near to even the shabbiest Barcelona Messi had won important trophies with then you're mistaken.
 

Acrobat7

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Just don't understand why they don't try and get a transfer fee for him now, if he was placed on the open market he'd be snapped up no problem and they'd have the money to invest in a replacement.

He clearly doesn't want to be there.
Even if he had left on a free it would have saved them €100m of his wages. Now they are paying €100m to a pissed of Messi, have seemingly fallen out with the senior players and might only get a half-hearted effort from him. All this while juggling to manage their finances and kicking the can down the road (Arthur/Pjanic swap).
 

Marcosdeto

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Both Napoli nor Argentina were nowhere near to win what they won without him. He lead them, he dragged them to success and he did so at a time when defensive football reigned, when football was far more physical and also at the golden age of defenders. If you think that Napoli was anywhere near to even the shabbiest Barcelona Messi had won important trophies with then you're mistaken.
if that's so, if it was so hard to win the Scudetto, please tell me who was Maradona in Hellas Verona? or in Sampdoria? or in Roma? those three teams won the scudetto too when -as you say- defensive football reigned and was more physical
 

Marcosdeto

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Even if he had left on a free it would have saved them €100m of his wages. Now they are paying €100m to a pissed of Messi, have seemingly fallen out with the senior players and might only get a half-hearted effort from him. All this while juggling to manage their finances and kicking the can down the road (Arthur/Pjanic swap).
i think that having messi in the team makes them earn a lot of money
don't forget that football is a business and if they were losing money with him they would have happily let him go