[TwoSheds]

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I think we can get a lot more out of both him and Maguire by going 3 at the back.

 

[Stacks]

I think we can get a lot more out of both him and Maguire by going 3 at the back.

Yep.

 

[Tallis]

Need to pair him with Varane. That’s a better compliment with Varane providing the leadership and assurance and Martinez doing the ball winning and the long range distribution

 

[Stacks]

Need to pair him with Varane. That’s a better compliment with Varane providing the leadership and assurance and Martinez doing the ball winning and the long range distribution

When has Verane been a leader?

 

[kouroux]

Referring to video,
He's afraid to dribble and lazy to do short one-two passing.

One many CBs do that ?

 

[Ole'sattheWheel]

Pretty shocking amount of criticism for an ok debut in a new league in a team coming back of its worst season in decades with a new manager.
You people would’ve hounded out Jaap Stam after he was made to look like a hungover Sunday league level CB by Anelka in the charity shield, he got absolutely rinsed.

Not sure if Martinez was a particularly necessary signing given the issues in other areas but he was far from terrible.

PS that wasn’t a penalty, you would have been laughed at for suggesting that was a penalty few years ago.

I agree with everything other than the penalty. It was a soft (stupid) pen which welbeck absolutely bought. But you can’t charge into the back if a striker in the box like that.
He got off lucky, let’s hope he learns from it.

Good performance otherwise though all things considered

 

[izak]

When has Verane been a leader?

For that France world cup win, he was the leader in that team alongside Loris.

 

[bugmat]

Ok debut - no relationship with maguire so understandable on the goals. Only real mistake was giving Welbeck a chance to go don with the bump in the box.

 

[Trex]

He'll be coming up against the likes of Ivan Toney and Mbuemo today. Big test!!

 

[Chief123]

Even though I liked a lot of what I saw of Martinez today, in particular his composure on the ball and the way he took down the ball under control under pressure situations.

I do like him, but I also can’t pretend I’m not concerned about his potential weaknesses. Ignoring all the jokes about his height and the people saying height doesn’t matter. I have to say the idea of height goes hand in hand with physical presence.

I know he has a great leap and this unconvincing argument that he had the best aerial duels in the Dutch league. We simply can’t use the Dutch league as valid justifications when analysing the premier league.

Even though ETH has bought Martinez based on his qualities and because he knows him better than anyone, I want to bring up the comments Pep and Klopp both said in similar phrases when they first came to the premier league. I remember them talking about how they didn’t realise how physical the premier league was until they got here. And also how important the second ball battle was when winning the ball in the air.

Now one thing that is very prominent in the premier league by a lot of teams, in particular the ones with physical strikers in their team (a lot of the bottom half teams) is the long diagonal ball from full back areas to the opposite back post. It’s often a strategy of the striker to peel away to the back post for that diagonal ball. I’ve rarely seen this so prominent in any other league, especially not in the Dutch league.

Ultimately, that’s where my biggest concerns lie with Martinez. No matter how good his leap is, it’s incredibly hard to get a good jump when you are back tracking to get close to a player peeling away at the back post. Whether you agree or not, there are going to be plenty of times where big strikers are going to either out jump or out muscle Martinez. Welbeck even outjumped him today even though he’s not the most physical or dangerous in the air.

If this becomes a common weakness in our team, I can see many opposition teams targeting this weakness. For example, Cancelo playing the long diagonal to Haaland at the far side between Martinez and Shaw. Haaland is going to get the better of them on more than one occasion. (I’m not convinced by the Martinez had Haaland in his pocket argument because Haaland did get the better of him a few times but failed to put the ball away.). Similar to how Robertson will play the diagonal to Nunez at the far post. Mitrovic and Antonio are other examples.

I’m saying all this as someone who is a fan of Martinez but I also can’t pretend he’ll be “perfectly fine”. There is a reason why Liverpool and City play with defenders who are comfortable on the ball but also physically big and present. VVD, Matip, Konate, Dias, Stones all great on the ball but big boys too.

I’m sure ETH is well aware of all this but I also go back to Pep and Klopp learning a lot more about the physicality of the league once they experienced it. ETH will be learning that now too.

I could post this every week and it will be the same concern every match. We are going to start every match with a physical weakness which every team is going to exploit. He maybe wasn’t at fault for the first 2 but he certainly got bullied for the 3rd goal. It’s the same threat he’s going to have every week.

Brentford made a conscious effort to target that side of our defence.
I feel like this could end up being an example of why it’s important to have a director of football and scouting team. This signing was driven by ETH who has had no experience of the premier league. If he had experience first hand how physical and direct a lot of the teams are, I question whether he would have signed Martinez as a centre back. We’ve not paid that much money for him to play any other position other than CB.

 

[Strelok]

He won't make it as a CB here.

 

[Arth_]

Poor again today. Awful defending for the 3rd goal conceded. Based on his last two performances he should fall back in the pecking order as 4th or 5th choice of centre back.

 

[Skills]

This is genuinely one of the worst signings ever

 

[spiriticon]

Either he learns to jump like a gazelle or he finds himself a new position

 

[bond19821982]

Bad. 3 man defence would favor him a lot.

 

[Giant Midget]

I know EtH has said he doesn’t like him in midfield, but he’s the only choice we have.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I just don't see how you can be that short and make it as a top PL CB...

Not as part of a two anyway.

 

[el3mel]

Nothing new. This club is addicted to spend ton of money on shit players. We blow out our budget every season on godawful signings instead of spreading it on some good players.

50m for this. Him and Maguire combined cost 130m.

 

[Red Royal]

This is genuinely one of the worst signings ever

I think you are right. £50M we could have spent on a CM

 

[hp88]

Pundits have already cancelled him

 

[Reditus]

Well many of us suggested his height would be an issue. It took till the 2nd game and he was badly exposed

Wonder can we make him our holding midfielder instead?

 

[Ekeke]

Failed to jump for the 3rd goal. Off balance, doesnt attack it and the player he would be up against does. Pretty simple really. Now we did also lose the header at the back post that put the ball into that area and thats not to do with Lisandro. But the shot/header that went in was his mistake

 

[PlayerOne]

Had concerns, not just his height but the lack of pace and physicality are more worrying. He will never live up that price point

 

[MyDevil]

No way he will play CB again for us. Easily bullied here. Should try him as DM just to recoup any value left for him.

 

[forevrared]

Way as well try him at left back or defensive midfield. No way on earth he should’ve slotted straight in at CB.

 

[#07]

Doesn't seem the best use of £50m right now does it?

 

[Chief123]

I just don't see how you can be that short and make it as a top PL CB...

Not as part of a two anyway.

This is the constant concern I’ve had since we signed him. We just can’t be confident and assured he’s going to be solid for us at the back every match. We are going to go into every match hoping his weaknesses aren’t exposed. Simply not a plan.

We can’t have a first choice CB who we only play in games which suit him where there is no physical threat. We need CBs to deal with every scenario.

 

[NoLogo]

I just don't see how you can be that short and make it as a top PL CB...

Not as part of a two anyway.

He won't. There is no way, the teams with more physical strikers or wingers will target him mercilessly.

 

[TheGame]

Put him in midfield alongside Erikson.

 

[The United]

Well, it was predictable. I am not talking about his height alone here. Signing a small CB with no athleticism for an EPL team is ridiculous.

These Dutch managers don't seem to see what other people see in this sport in this league. VG did it here before and now this guy. They have no idea what to prioritize first when building a squad.

 

[Red the Bear]

Had a nice debut in my opinion but jeez what a nightmarish followup.

I'm going to refrain from criticizing him harshly for now, it's hard getting integrated well into such a circus, he has time to turn it around.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Great money spent on our defence.

 

[El Jefe]

A section of our fanbase have blinkers on to the extent they are unable to think rationally.

People were mocked for talking about his height when it was clearly going to be an issue. We should open up hos transfer thread just to expose the dumb posts that were making fun of the posters who questioned his fit for the league.

 

[Cassidy]

He’ll be fine when he settles

 

[Member 101269]

He’s better than maguire. The goali don’t blame him for

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

only because it's his second game i will not call him shite

 

[Long Time Red]

Some comments from last week that he wouldn't struggle due to lack of height didn't age well....

 

[Leg-End]

Perhaps try him in a back 3, even still he's probably got fold down steps to get into his car.

 

[avgp_1]

It's these sort of balls that lack of height is a real handicap. When you can't time the jump because of lack of time and space and the opposition player is already on top of you.