From that angle roofing it is the best option. He made the right decision.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 28
- Clean sheets
- 6
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 8
Martinez back to his best meat processing self.
The comments from Amorim clearly stuck with several players: there were leaders all over the pitch.
That makes it easier for any individual to show their best.
The comments from Amorim clearly stuck with several players: there were leaders all over the pitch.
That makes it easier for any individual to show their best.
Great performance!! Very well taken goal. Aggression, decisiveness and impact. All the things we’ve wanted from him more consistently.
Day after so I can be less emotional.
He’s Still a player I’d consider selling. I struggle to see past his physical limitations (Speed and Height) plus We can get a good money for him.
The version of this team that goes on to win titles probably doesn’t include him in my opinion.
I like him but if he was the player many desperately want him to be, we won’t concede as many goals as we do (plenty evidence of him being culpable over the past few years).
Day after so I can be less emotional.
He’s Still a player I’d consider selling. I struggle to see past his physical limitations (Speed and Height) plus We can get a good money for him.
The version of this team that goes on to win titles probably doesn’t include him in my opinion.
I like him but if he was the player many desperately want him to be, we won’t concede as many goals as we do (plenty evidence of him being culpable over the past few years).
Well man, it just takes couple of weeks ago with his last match against City to find a great game by him.
This is the problem, even if he hasn't be his best self, the critics and preception go to far.
Some of his mistakes were really bad in some of his games this season, yet at the same time in many of those matches he did great things too.
Also many of his interventions in this last game were really close to be fatal if he didn't pull it out (example that great ball from Mac Allister to Salah that he just robbed the ball with the tip of his toe with a tackle and Salah had a freeway to score if he managed to win that duel).
Till United doesn't find its best version, mantein better its shape, shyte will happen and even in such cases, plays like the mentioned with Salah sometimes will fall on the bad side of the coin, it's fecking football. The good thing to mantein this mentallity, even if sometimes he'll fail and the attacker will just do some great stuff. The biggest issue was not seeing him in his front foot and somehow mad/troubled at his mates, that last vid talking like a Captain looks more like the real Licha mentallity.
Last edited:
Absolutely bang on the money. This is how the team develops and takes shape. Certain positions in this system/team need to be occupied by players with a certain skill set/profile:.. and some players we have currently don’t have that. That simple . Martinez is not one who is going to be suitable long term. Same shit for Dalot, Zirkzee, Onana etc.
Best articulation I’ve seen. This!!
Martinez needs to constantly be at his best to avoid getting exposed.
A small dip in form mean a mistimed jump or run. He can’t recover like taller or faster defenders typically would.
Have we ruled out the possibility of Martinez playing LB for us? I've ruled out Shaw ever being a consistent performer for us ever again, and I'm ruling out Malacia on ground of being inadequate. We might bring in Alvaro, but whether we do or not it seems to me Martinez could be a handy asset for us at LB for us in Amorim's system.
We don’t play with LBs. Martinez as LWB is ludicrous.
He played left back a handful of times this season anyway, and really struggled. It really doesn’t suit his game.
Its now left wingback and it clearly doesnt suit his skillset.
He's perfectly set up as a LCB where he's central enough to play passes through the middle and not constantly be in foot races with pacy wingers right the way up and down the wing.
Fair enough, and many thanks to @El Presidente for his reply, but I suppose what I'm really getting at is that in the event we don't buy a LWB, which I understand is a different beast than LB, we're weak in the position. Dalot had a great game against Liverpool but in general doesn't impress at LWB.
Martinez relative to Dalot is a vastly better passer of the ball, although I don't think I've ever seen him deliver a cross. And he did show something in the final third against Liverpool that we have never seen from Dalot.
Yoro has showed some really good stuff at CB and looks the part to me, whereas Martinez has been beaten inside the 18 yard box. I wouldn't want to bench Martinez though.
Martinez is obviously weak in the air, but something is going wrong if you have Maguire and De Ligt or Yoro in there with their ability in the air and they dont deal with it.
None of our CBs have half the on the ball ability of Lisandro and most often he's our 2nd best distribution in the team so we really need him there doing it. And on the floor his defending is better than our other CBs other than maybe Yoro who hasnt played enough to make a comparison
As a wingback you need to be a runner to get back and help defensively and then become the winger in attacks. There have been a few good wingbacks who didnt have much pace but when they had the chance to cross they were sublime. I dont think Lisandro is one of those and putting him one on one with a pacy winger is the 2nd worst position he can find himself in other than defending a header against a taller player. So I dont think he's a viable option. Left back yeah he can do a job. Wingback? I'd prefer our wingers play there over a CB who doesnt have pace as a strength. Yoro might even be more suited to it because he does have some speed.
Yeah, what I will add is that there is a reason why all of the best wingbacks in the world are rather underwhelming fullbacks and their main weakness is defending, but in the attacking phase is where their strong attributes really shine. That’s also the reason why Dalot and especially Maz really struggle here (although I’m very surprised about Dalot, since he even played as a winger in the past and has good qualities going forward). I personally think Dalot’s main problem is the incredible fatigue, both physical and mental, that he’s accumulated and can really go up a level if he’s given a rest, but that’s another matter.
Back to Lisandro, his profile is obviously quite different and will actually expose his weaknesses. Not only is he slow, but also lacks explosiveness.
What I wonder is why wasn’t Garnacho tested out in that position. He’s way more suited and has very good attributes. Obviously we know where he’d struggle, but still. I can see a world where Amad and Garnacho develop into a very good wingback pairing, although probably Amorim sees more value for them being in the 10s.
Garnacho plays football to score goals. He dreams of being Ronaldo. I dont think a player like that would be suited to play left wing back even if he has some of the qualities that the position would require.
If Martinez continues to struggle defending in the box -- he's been beaten on the ground as well as in the air -- we may have to entertain the possibility of benching him in favor of Yoro, who's growing rapidly into the role of a CB at this level.
He also likes taking players on and will play balls across the box. It might not be his main strength but he does it
World class centre-back. Anyone who can't see that is an idiot.
Which centre-back hasn't?
Few so trivially. Regardless of the odd good game here and there - and he did have a good game - his limitations are both extreme (for a PL cb) and self evident.
Like an earlier poster said, these wild swings in the debate after each individual performance are silly. He's not going to cut it as a top CB because he's not Pirlo in disguise, he's quite a good passer for a CB but he's also tremendously limited in all the traditional elements of CB play, especially in Amorim's system which actually forces the RCB and LCB to defend the channels regularly.
Last edited:
Quality control
And you base this on shit you've pulled right out of your arse right?
Looks like a defensive midfielder to me, but what do I know?
Ah, a high quality post and response. No, I base it on the evidence of watching him be dominated regularly both in pace and aerial ability, twinned with pretty regular losses of concentration. Especially against more direct sides that aren't afraid to target him specifically as a weakness. Which they do, regularly. And it works.
Reassuring. I'm sure you're a great scout, probably employed by one of the world's top clubs, right?
Ah yes, to have an opinion on football players one needs to be a top scout. Nobody else can have them. That's why nobody discusses player performance on football forums, it'd be pointless.
Whatever. You do you dude.
"Nemanja Vidic is shit, he doesn't have pace, I've seen him beaten on the ground several times."
Not sure why you're inventing quotes now. Or comparing incomparable players. Anyone could be roasted by young Fernando Torres. Martinez can be roasted by any given PL winger or fullback.
He has pocketed Haaland on multiple occasions.
Fair question, but Martinez is the clear weak link in the back 3. I’d like to find a way to keep him on the pitch.
I’m a big fan of Licha—he’s probably one of my favorite players at the team, right now. His passion, aggression, and technical ability make him stand out, but we have to be honest about his limitations, especially when defending wide spaces on the left.
The issue is twofold: first, he doesn’t have the pace to keep up with quick wingers or attackers in those situations. Second, his short stature naturally limits his tackling range, so when he’s facing a pacy player in open spaces, it can become a real problem.
I think he can thrive in the right system, though. Pairing him with a quick, athletic center-back like Yoro (playing at the center at three at the back) would make a lot of sense. They’d complement each other well—Martínez could focus on his strengths, like reading the game and playing out from the back, while his partner covers the ground.
On the other hand, playing him close to someone slower on a three cb system, like Maguire or even De Ligt, feels like a disaster waiting to happen. That lack of pace on that end of the backline would get exposed far too easily, especially against counterattacks or teams with fast forwards.
The issue is twofold: first, he doesn’t have the pace to keep up with quick wingers or attackers in those situations. Second, his short stature naturally limits his tackling range, so when he’s facing a pacy player in open spaces, it can become a real problem.
I think he can thrive in the right system, though. Pairing him with a quick, athletic center-back like Yoro (playing at the center at three at the back) would make a lot of sense. They’d complement each other well—Martínez could focus on his strengths, like reading the game and playing out from the back, while his partner covers the ground.
On the other hand, playing him close to someone slower on a three cb system, like Maguire or even De Ligt, feels like a disaster waiting to happen. That lack of pace on that end of the backline would get exposed far too easily, especially against counterattacks or teams with fast forwards.
He's had a couple great games against City (and some poor ones) - but I'm really not sure how that negates my point? They didn't exploit his weaknesses on those occasions whereas other teams have where they've created foot races or aerial duels in key situations against him. Where he avoids those, he does well, but that isn't a realistic strategy match in match out. I'm also less interested in when we play City than when we play Forest, or Wolves. We are usually somewhat pinned back by City - being in a lower block where there is less space in behind, and they're more interested in crafting the perfect goal than just booting it in behind, which actually plays to Martinez' strengths. But against more direct teams, they will use that long ball every time. So to me he's an occasional asset against stronger, possession based teams, but a regular detriment against teams we should be beating.
We cannot be carrying players that have clear and obvious weaknesses - or assuming that his partners strengths will compensate for those weaknesses. It's simply not how it works in the PL, teams will exploit him every time and while I do like many of his qualities, there's no chance that he is a pillar we can build around.
Last edited:
On that last paragraph - of course it can work. You can build your team/partnerships around compensating for a players weakness. See Liverpool and TAA, as an example. Question is, would you want to? Does the other attributes he brings outweigh the cost of “carrying” him? Anyhow, I’m hopeful his demise is overblown and that the blips are temporary due to a combination of his long term injury struggles & a change in role/formation (plus ever changing partnerships at the back). I like Licha though, so maybe I’m a tad biased, but he was very good/consistent in his first season iirc.
If only Shaw could stay fit, we’d have a damn fine competitor for that LCB spot.
I mean, I think there's grades to it, but how many league titles have Liverpool won in recent years compared to city who have been employing defenders with no major physical deficits (taking this year as an exception). If the goals is 90 points, you can't have clear and obvious weaknesses in your back line. Nobody else is mad enough to try to compensate for a CB, for good reason.
Last edited:
Sell if we can breakeven or make a profit, otherwise keep. He's really good when he's on it, skill and attitude wise. Would definitely keep him around even if it's just a rotation option. Ideally he would rotate with another more bigger and physical LCB. G. Inacio?
No way, he‘s a leader on the pitch and our best progressive passer & tackler from the back. Not so easy to replace.
Sell Shaw, Lindelof, not this guy.
Bet he would have scored the Maguire chance if put in that position.
There is no LB in this system anyway, but modern full backs have to have some semblance of pace and attacking prowess. Those are just not Martinez.
Overrated. Is having a below average season
but still a very good talent and a good character on the pitch..
great finish at Anfield last week
Hopefully he can get back to the form he showed in his first seven months at the club.
but still a very good talent and a good character on the pitch..
great finish at Anfield last week
Hopefully he can get back to the form he showed in his first seven months at the club.
Didn’t that Klopp Pool team hit 90 points twice when they lost the title?
Fair point
but they still didn't win!Fair point
yeah, I agree with your overall point though - it’s very, very difficult to carry someone with huge deficiencies in a team - albeit, it is possible as proven by Pool. I’m just hoping Lisandro turns it around as everyone gets more comfortable in the new system, and with their new partnerships.