[Fobal]

.
A- The EPL in itself is brutal. It played at high intensity, its physical and its normal to find at youth level a freak of nature (in a good way) like Chido Obi whose 6ft2 and is built like a Challenger II tank at age 16. Imagine being a 15 year old player and being tasked to mark that. So by the time a player is of age he would have had to endure years of physical punishment at youth level. No wonder why Paul Ince looked like Asterix when he played in the Serie A.
B- Back in Scholes days it was normal for 17-19 year old to go toe to toe against angry adult players at reserve football level. A 29 year old Nicky Marker stripped United and England from the brightest out of the class of 92 when he destroyed a 19 year old Ben Thornley in a reserves game vs Blackburn. .
C- The physicality in football has been diluted throughout the years. That's not me saying it but the likes of Shearer, Wright and Henry

I am not suggesting that Argentinians aren't tough. The fouls Maradona had to endure back in the day were obscene. However to say that Paul Scholes wouldn't survive in today's Argentinian league is ridiculous. Maybe Martinez should ask his Juan Sebastian Veron what it meant playing with Manchester United back in the day. After all he went crying on the Italian media after 6 months because mean Sir Alex ordered him to tackle and no playmaker should do that. I'd suggest Martinez to focus on him getting fit again rather then dare comparing himself to a serial winner who played at a time were real butchers such as Vinnie Jones, Paul Ince and Roy Keane used to play

Like I've said before it was just banter. You went complete sideways.

Let's not derrail it too much, just to maybe be more clear about my SIDE NOTE, the following:

One thing is the predominant style of a League, regarding intensity, frecuency on passes, more possesion oriented, more on the break, strategies more applied (and in a microcosmos a particular team and its coach) etc., that BTW not intrinsecally means harder, yet different and every player must adapt to such stuff on any League and more importantly, to his team and coach ideas, this has been since ever. People puts to much emphasis on Leagues than it shouldn't, I guess it's a sign of the times.

And another is sthg as easy to spot if a League can be rough or not. That was what I was talking about, not if Veron (a lazy fecker as he was) wanted to tackle or not. I was just adding as a side note that South American Leagues in such regard: of roughness, nastiness for moments still live pretty much in vintage periods. This comment of mine HAS NOTHING TO DO if Scholes, who was a mean mofo as they come, would survive or not, that's just silly banter.

 

[Red00012]

His response to Scholes tweet

I don’t see anything wrong with it .
Scholes as a player rarely gave interviews as Sir Alex used to call him a shy lad and kept him out of all that.
Since retirement Scholes has realised that you do need to still have your name out there. He comes out with those rants / strange comments and criticising players to stay revelant while also been a poor pundit . He should keep his mouth shut sometimes.

 

[Fobal]

Tbf I would guess what Licha tried to say is that Paul Scholes wouldn’t survive living in Argentina because his lacking social tact and social intelligence would see him ousted from most workplaces.

Or he was just annoyed at someone sputing BS and spouted BS back. It would be purely funny if not for the fact that players are actually affected by what people on dominant media platform says about them, directly or inderectly because so many others hears it and responds to it. We may not like it, but they are human, so it affects them, and thereby it has an effect on the results of Man Utd.

I would say to Licha what Ruben probably says to him: Don’t read SoMe, don’t listen to pundits, never answer back, and I would say to Paul Scholes what probably nobody says to him: You’re an expert on 50-yard blind passing, you’re not an expert on coaching which you proved, and you’re an idiot when it comes to understanding people you don’t really know and in realizing the limits of your own knowledge. People should see you as a guy rambling at the pub when you talk about United today, unfortunately, many do think you’re some kind of expert and in the end, it effects Man Utd in a negative way. If you really care for the club, could you please shut up about anything that happened after 2010? Thank you.’ I doubt he’d listen to me anyway.

SPOT ON, no matter what Scholes said, Martinez should have kept his mouth shut or talking like he did till this last episode, even if it's unfair, it doesn't matter don't feed the controversy, he has been questioned since he arrived without even entering a field just because of his height, he shouldn't react with such delay now. And if you say sthg.? don't do it in full trothle footie folklore and be as prudent as he was before. He went Argie League (really common) two footed stance (just a joke @devilish )

 

[JB7]

Maybe they are just frustrated because of what we have become?
If we are to analyze the statements, Scholes is clearly right, we will never win the PL with Martinez and surely prime Scholes would be star in Argentina.

Don't let logic or something so trivial as the truth get in the way of a reason to bash a club legend though. It's similar to everyone ignoring es the "Unless" in "not good enough to win the Premier League with. Unless..." too which is what he actually said before being cut off. He's not a great pundit but there's nothing wrong in what he's actually said.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Scholes is a clown.
Haven't taken him seriously since he sucked his daughters toes.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

I have no issues with what Martinez said. Scholes can obviously say what he wants, especially if he is asked for his opinion - but equally, what should Martinez do when he hears this? "Oh a United legend doesn't think I'm good enough? Shit, I better just accept that I'm not good enough and put in a transfer request to head to a team my level".

He has the right to be pissed with what he's heard - no doubt he's probably in a difficult place mentally with having suffered a nasty injury too.

A lot of ex-United players can be idiotic in the media since retirement - Scholes is one of them.

 

[RopersReturn]

Why isn’t Scholes mentioning the most relevant fact that it’s due to the Glazer family and their debt being the main consequence of not being able to recruit better players?
He might’ve have been good on the pitch but his opinions are terrible.

 

[rimaldo]

Scholes is a clown.
Haven't taken him seriously since he sucked his daughters toes.

strange. that’s when i started paying attention to him.

 

[criticalanalysis]

strange. that’s when i started paying attention to him.

Tarantino likes this post.

 

[LeonDion]

Martinez is levels above like of O’Shea. Since injured last season was just getting back to form. Gutted that he injured again now. On form Martinez is easily good enough. Lot of short term thinking these days.

 

[clarkydaz]

Pretty sure this guy won a world cup

 

[NewGlory]

SPOT ON, no matter what Scholes said, Martinez should have kept his mouth shut or talking like he did till this last episode, even if it's unfair, it doesn't matter don't feed the controversy, he has been questioned since he arrived without even entering a field just because of his height, he shouldn't react with such delay now. And if you say sthg.? don't do it in full trothle footie folklore and be as prudent as he was before. He went Argie League (really common) two footed stance (just a joke @devilish )

This. 100% this

Scholes is a pundit. It is his job to talk shit. Martinez is an active pro athlete, competing at the top level. I hate this new reality of pro athletes cosplaying as social media celebrities.

Also, wtf did ever happen with "taking a high road"? Since when do people feel they need to respond to every fecking thing? It would have been so much classier if Martinez just let this shit go. We know he is world cup winner. Does he? Why is he so fecking insecure? Confident people do not get into stupid arguments.

I don't like this shit. I will never like this shit. It did NOT benefit Sancho, did not benefit Rashford, I am certain it won't benefit anybody else. Focus on your performance while you are athlete. You will have plenty of time to talk trash when you retire

 

[Fortitude]

This. 100% this

Scholes is a pundit. It is his job to talk shit. Martinez is an active pro athlete, competing at the top level. I hate this new reality of pro athletes cosplaying as social media celebrities.

Also, wtf did ever happen with "taking a high road"? Since when do people feel they need to respond to every fecking thing? It would have been so much classier if Martinez just let this shit go. We know he is world cup winner. Does he? Why is he so fecking insecure? Confident people do not get into stupid arguments.

I don't like this shit. I will never like this shit. It did NOT benefit Sancho, did not benefit Rashford, I am certain it won't benefit anybody else. Focus on your performance while you are athlete. You will have plenty of time to talk trash when you retire

This 'keep your mouth shut' thing is nonsense. If someone is taking a great dump on you who has massive power of influence and sway over a fanbase, it's in your own best interests to put them in their place and have them conduct themselves as the legend they're supposed to be by shining the spotlight back on them and their conduct.

Martinez wasn't at all wrong to rebutt, what he rebutted with is the problem as he clearly reacted emotionally, impulsively and without wit or strategy. That is his mistake; if he wanted to shut Scholes down, he could have been exceedingly polite, even acknowledging his standing, and from there state it's not great that this legend is making his job harder whilst showing a lack of empathy for doing so at the time that he did.

Practically any reply from Scholes that doesn't acknowledge his own poor conduct will be questionable and perhaps embarrassing, if Scholes has the capacity to be embarrassed.

A war of words is the failing here, not the fact he used his right to reply. A sharper mind would have used the situation to great advantage and given themselves partial rest bite, at least from Scholes' caustic tongue.

 

[NewGlory]

This 'keep your mouth shut' thing is nonsense. If someone is taking a great dump on you who has massive power of influence and sway over a fanbase, it's in your own best interests to put them in their place and have them conduct themselves as the legend they're supposed to be by shining the spotlight back on them and their conduct.

Martinez wasn't at all wrong to rebutt, what he rebutted with is the problem as he clearly reacted emotionally, impulsively and without wit or strategy. That is his mistake; if he wanted to shut Scholes down, he could have been exceedingly polite, even acknowledging his standing, and from there state it's not great that this legend is making his job harder whilst showing a lack of empathy for doing so at the time that he did.

Practically any reply from Scholes that doesn't acknowledge his own poor conduct will be questionable and perhaps embarrassing, if Scholes has the capacity to be embarrassed.

A war of words is the failing here, not the fact he used his right to reply. A sharper mind would have used the situation to great advantage and given themselves partial rest bite, at least from Scholes' caustic tongue.

Fair enough. So far none of our footballers who have responded have shown any trace of wit, even the ones who employ armies of PR folks for it (#cough Rashford). So - yeah, maybe they should shut up instead of the very poor war of words

 

[Bobski]

Really quite a shame, what level would he have been at if it wasn't for the two huge injuries. Could genuinely be one of the top CB's in the league.

He will cost us a goal occassionally, but with a %aerials won of 61% (Saliba and Gabriel have 59% for example, but I think are much more threatening with set pieces), it is not such a huge problem. Especially relatively to the chances he creates and how much of the game he progresses. All defenders/players get beat to headers time to time, we seemed very poor organised in those weeks under Amorim. In his recent games it was far less of an issue.

That is a bit disingenuous, his aerial win percentage might be good but he is in the bottom 7 percentile around Europe for aerials won compared to CB's. That is actually an improvement for him, he was in the bottom 1% last year. He goes for aerials he thinks he can win, which is a small number so leads to a misleading percentage. Utd being so poor from set pieces is not helped by playing with a CB who is basically a non factor in the air.

Enjoyable player to watch and personality but not that effective in his role.

 

[andersj]

Everyone keep talking about his lack of height; it is very rarely a problem. Played 50 games and it has been a issue what? Twice? But his lack of pace and agility is an issue. It affects his entire game. He needs to overcommit to compensate, and his timing have to be inch perfect always.

Very good on the ball and very often a very good defender. But considering his lack of pace and the injuries I think we should consider selling. His wages are not that high. His book value is probably €20 mill?

I think it is possible to sell him for a profit.

 

[Fobal]

This 'keep your mouth shut' thing is nonsense. If someone is taking a great dump on you who has massive power of influence and sway over a fanbase, it's in your own best interests to put them in their place and have them conduct themselves as the legend they're supposed to be by shining the spotlight back on them and their conduct.

Martinez wasn't at all wrong to rebutt, what he rebutted with is the problem as he clearly reacted emotionally, impulsively and without wit or strategy. That is his mistake; if he wanted to shut Scholes down, he could have been exceedingly polite, even acknowledging his standing, and from there state it's not great that this legend is making his job harder whilst showing a lack of empathy for doing so at the time that he did.

Practically any reply from Scholes that doesn't acknowledge his own poor conduct will be questionable and perhaps embarrassing, if Scholes has the capacity to be embarrassed.

A war of words is the failing here, not the fact he used his right to reply. A sharper mind would have used the situation to great advantage and given themselves partial rest bite, at least from Scholes' caustic tongue.

I've stated precisly that if he wanted to reply, he should have done it in the way he managed everything since day one and in this case he could have use a bit of irony or sarcasm.

I guess he really got tired of the constant judgement since day one from everywhere and he knows that this injury can end really really bad. In any case if he kept his mouth shut, it would have been better, more when he was back to his best level, similar to when Carra had to apologyse without Licha ever facing him.

In this case if he gets back from the injury and plays good again, at some game with Scholes there he could have troll him in person, I guess that he feared right now that this scenario might vanish and that the club will exactly think of letting him go and that comment from Scholes got him and in some way help to convince United to let him go.
Yet if he felt raged, hold yourtself, nothing good will come back from facing a Club legend, no matter if he is on the right or not. Anyway, it's done, let's hope he recovers, if he continues in United or in another Club at this point with such recurrent injuries it's the most important thing for him.

 

[aeh1991]

Everyone keep talking about his lack of height; it is very rarely a problem. Played 50 games and it has been a issue what? Twice? But his lack of pace and agility is an issue. It affects his entire game. He needs to overcommit to compensate, and his timing have to be inch perfect always.

Very good on the ball and very often a very good defender. But considering his lack of pace and the injuries I think we should consider selling. His wages are not that high. His book value is probably €20 mill?

I think it is possible to sell him for a profit.

should be able to sell him for €20-30m to an Italian or Spanish club.

 

[Red_toad]

Tbf I would guess what Licha tried to say is that Paul Scholes wouldn’t survive living in Argentina because of him lacking in social tact and social intelligence, it could see him ousted from most workplaces.

Same guy who was singing along to feck the English, I doubt that’s what he meant!

https://www.forcesnews.com/operatio...med-singing-anti-english-falklands-song-after

 

[RedDevil [NC]]

Honestly I don’t think scholes said anything wrong but Martinez took bait and should have just let it roll off of him.

 

[foolsgold]

Everyone keep talking about his lack of height; it is very rarely a problem. Played 50 games and it has been a issue what? Twice? But his lack of pace and agility is an issue. It affects his entire game. He needs to overcommit to compensate, and his timing have to be inch perfect always.

Very good on the ball and very often a very good defender. But considering his lack of pace and the injuries I think we should consider selling. His wages are not that high. His book value is probably €20 mill?

I think it is possible to sell him for a profit.

I think if we can sell him for these kind of numbers then we should.

I know the injuries aren't his fault, and he's had some really bad luck, but the effect is cumulative and we should be looking to build around Yoro and De ligt long term.

 

[Mercurial]

If the cruciate ligament is torn off chances are he won't be that same player after a surgery. It's a bad injury.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

This 'keep your mouth shut' thing is nonsense. If someone is taking a great dump on you who has massive power of influence and sway over a fanbase, it's in your own best interests to put them in their place and have them conduct themselves as the legend they're supposed to be by shining the spotlight back on them and their conduct.

Martinez wasn't at all wrong to rebutt, what he rebutted with is the problem as he clearly reacted emotionally, impulsively and without wit or strategy. That is his mistake; if he wanted to shut Scholes down, he could have been exceedingly polite, even acknowledging his standing, and from there state it's not great that this legend is making his job harder whilst showing a lack of empathy for doing so at the time that he did.

Practically any reply from Scholes that doesn't acknowledge his own poor conduct will be questionable and perhaps embarrassing, if Scholes has the capacity to be embarrassed.

A war of words is the failing here, not the fact he used his right to reply. A sharper mind would have used the situation to great advantage and given themselves partial rest bite, at least from Scholes' caustic tongue.

The best way to put them in their place is actually showing your worth on the field! Except the first 6 months when he joined us, he has generally being inconsistent. Hope he can do the talking on the field instead of social media.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The best way to put them in their place is actually showing your worth on the field! Except the first 6 months when he joined us, he has generally being inconsistent. Hope he can do the talking on the field instead of social media.

So Scholes can basically shit on our players at will and they can only respond/defend themselves if they are playing out of their skins for a prolonged period of time? Sounds fair.
It's worse than that as he's saying it straight after a bad injury + giving grief to one of the few players fans agree actually gives their all.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

So Scholes can basically shit on our players at will and they can only respond/defend themselves if they are playing out of their skins for a prolonged period of time? Sounds fair.
It's worse than that as he's saying it straight after a bad injury + giving grief to one of the few players fans agree actually gives their all.

There are so many pundits and medias shititng on our players on consistent basic. Even lots of our fans doing so too. So should all players respond in the social medias? They are professional, there bounds to be criticism and praise in their job as public figure, focus on your job!

 

[tomaldinho1]

There are so many pundits and medias shititng on our players on consistent basic. Even lots of our fans doing so too. So should all players respond in the social medias? They are professional, there bounds to be criticism and praise in their job as public figure, focus on your job!

No, simply ex players who profess themselves fans of United (and still benefit from their United history) should just think a bit about how what they are saying affects the club they supposedly support.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

No, simply ex players who profess themselves fans of United (and still benefit from their United history) should just think a bit about how what they are saying affects the club they supposedly support.

They are no different from other pundits. It's their job. All I'm saying is that as professional player and public figure, focus on your job 100%. Ignore all these comments in the media. Otherwise there will be no end of rebutting pundits in the media which is unnecessary.

Case in point, Maguire was the most criticized players in the media and was boo by Man Utd and England's fans. He redeemed himself on the pitch and acted professionally throughout.

 

[tomaldinho1]

They are no different from other pundits. It's their job. All I'm saying is that as professional player and public figure, focus on your job 100%. Ignore all these comments in the media. Otherwise there will be no end of rebutting pundits in the media which is unnecessary.

Case in point, Maguire was the most criticized players in the media and was boo by Man Utd and England's fans. He redeemed himself on the pitch and acted professionally throughout.

Disagree. By staying quiet you accept it, I would rather more of our players started to call these guys out and hammer them for what they have become.
Maguire got way more abuse than he deserved but I'm not sure he's a good example, by staying quiet he became a target for everyone. He wasn't even that bad, he just wasn't worth the fee, but he became a universal joke because he let pundits hammer him in my opinion.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Disagree. By staying quiet you accept it, I would rather more of our players started to call these guys out and hammer them for what they have become.
Maguire got way more abuse than he deserved but I'm not sure he's a good example, by staying quiet he became a target for everyone. He wasn't even that bad, he just wasn't worth the fee, but he became a universal joke because he let pundits hammer him in my opinion.

I respect your opinion. For me I rather see our players focus on their job and give their all on the field than react to these distraction. If every players start to do this, pretty sure the club will stop it. It attracts more unnecessary reaction and negative attention.

The players are paid to do the job on the field. They are professional public figure, praise and criticism are part and parcel of the package, they should be able to take it and remain professional.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I respect your opinion. For me I rather see our players focus on their job and give their all on the field than react to these distraction. If every players start to do this, pretty sure the club will stop it. It attracts more unnecessary reaction and negative attention.

The players are paid to do the job on the field. They are professional public figure, praise and criticism are part and parcel of the package, they should be able to take it and remain professional.

Yeah understood, we just disagree on how to deal with external noise. You have to also factor in how much influence the ex players have, to the point journos have started using them in pre match pressers i.e. 'Gary Neville says this, do you agree?'. It is a real head scratcher in terms of how they can be taken down a peg or two, because they 100% influence the team in a negative way.

I think your way would work, for what it is worth, if Amorim came out and just stated something that really put the ex players in the limelight and effectively made them make a decision. It would really piss of G Nev, Scholes etc. but I think something along the lines of:

'Everyone told me the club was so big etc. but the most unexpected thing has been the external noise. Sometimes I feel ex players forget how it was to be in the dressing room, I think many of us ex players who have not stayed in football at the highest level (i.e. all of the vocal United ex players) underestimate how much the dressing room is affected by this external noise. Today's world is very different to the world I played in with regards to social media and football's popularity. I want to make my player's job as easy as possible, I am sure United's fans want the same because, as you all know, the job is hard enough as it is. If you are with us, you are with us.'

But as it stands, we kind of leave our players to fight for themselves a bit - hence why I want them all to give a bit back to the old boys.

 

[Fobal]

The best way to put them in their place is actually showing your worth on the field! Except the first 6 months when he joined us, he has generally being inconsistent. Hope he can do the talking on the field instead of social media.

He talked constantly in the pitch, the overblown critics were even before he even put a foot in the ground

 

[Yakuza_devils]

He talñked constantly in the pitch, the overblown critics were even before he even put a foot in the ground

Nope, he ranges from erratic, reckless to world class. He is inconsistent. He needs to improve on this. To win the PL, consistency is a must. Take the criticism from Scholes and move on to improve.

 

[Insanity]

Honestly I don’t think scholes said anything wrong but Martinez took bait and should have just let it roll off of him.

It's not like Scholes was walking around Manchester with a placard tied around his neck with "We won't win the league with Martinez" written on it. He obviously was asked a question and replied to it. It isn't a very outrageous take either as it has been a mentioned a million times on here and on other forums.

We have collected some really thin skinned players over the last decade. All of them prefer to do the talking on social media rather than on the pitch. No wonder we are a team full of prima donna pussies who are collecting huge paychecks for very little output.

 

[Fobal]

Nope, he ranges from erratic, reckless to world class. He is inconsistent. He needs to improve on this. To win the PL, consistency is a must. Take the criticism from Scholes and move on to improve.

Let's agree to disagree, he faced lost of injuries and was rushed back due to be one of the few that showed face, right now he falls in another one that can seriously end his carreer and Scholes more than making a critic, made an statement that went way over the top given the timing of it, his stature as a legend and the lack of taste and empathy, it was trully bad.
I've said before Martinez should have not respond, like he did it tons of times in the past, even being overly critic with himself and the team in hsi declarations priot to this, he just lost the plot and stopped being political correct, sadly, he has feed a silly controversy. Yet this does not excuse Scholes for acting quite like a twat being a former footballer and knowing how overblown this current period it's to help to create a trend in social media and hoiw that sticks to any player.

We have collected some really thin skinned players over the last decade. All of them prefer them do the talking on social media rather than on the pitch. No wonder we are a team full of prima donna pussies who are collecting huge paychecks for very little output.

Licha it's not precisly a player with a thin skin, yet he is quite fesity and he hold himself tons of times, this time he lost it and Scholes more than that silly Licha's answer, if not a shout mouth, deserved a more sarcastic/ironic one...I guess his injury situation got the best of him.

 

[Brophs]

Fair play to him for writing it in the style of a LinkedIn twat.

 

[V.O.]

Fair play to him for writing it in the style of a LinkedIn twat.

Harsh on @simonhch

Great news that the surgery went well. Here's hoping we do get to see him back to his best again. Feels like he's vital to getting this system working if Amorim's done enough to still be around by the time he's back. Losing both him and Amad for the season couldn't have been two better placed kicks in the bollocks.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Fair play to him for writing it in the style of a LinkedIn twat.

Needs more formatting though.



Woke at 3am
Wow that is late for me


Here comes the grind
But that is what I live for, never give up on yourself.




You are sleeping when I am hustling. Hustlers make things happen.




5am read and digest the news, mediate, shower.

6am are you still sleeping? I’m already winning. Winners win.

 

[Sanchez7]

I'm with Paul on this one. Licha is good on the ball but doesn't have the physical attributes for this league.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Once fit we must sell Martin ez. Trust me he's crocked the poor guy, same as Phil no bones Jones and Luke hammy Shaw. Let's not make this mistake again.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Once fit we must sell Martin ez. Trust me he's crocked the poor guy, same as Phil no bones Jones and Luke hammy Shaw. Let's not make this mistake again.

Boone will buy him this summer, so we have him for another year. Hopefully by then he’s firmly just a squad option.

Even when fit, he’s never got back to that good form of his first season.