[caid]

I'd say Martinez improved over the course of the season. As you'd probably expect from someone returning from long term injury.
Maybe you dont start him every week against every team and have to pick and choose his games to some extent because of his physicality but there aren't that many i'd be worried about. Theres a lot of good players i wouldn't be that worried about throwing him up against. There's probably a few parts of his game that are borderline and dropping a small amount would hurt him a lot so i get why theres some scepticism but it just seems excessive.

 

[damoley]

Interesting as to the different countries/surgeons suggest recoveries. Second surgery he said there was more done than the first time. Too much to write thoroughly but essentially had to do a couple of extra things on top of the ACL reconstruction for extra strength. Luckily I had very little bone damage which means it’s been quite straight forward. Ironically I ditched the crutches cos I felt it was encouraging bad form for walking as opposed to actually just walking properly, obviously not very much of it at this time.

First one they took some hamstring, second time they took quad tendon as I asked not to have a big scar on the front of my knee for kneeling. Said it’s fairly likely I’d be in for a replacement 20-30 years down the line…yay.

To keep the chat mildly on track, I’d presume someone as strong as Licha would be moving asap, far faster than either of us, hence why I thought 4-5 weeks was excessive. But since everyone recovers and receives advice differently I spose it makes sense from your end.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He had good and bad games throughout the season. Maybe he was on a better run of 3 or 4 games leading up to his injury, though I remember fans not being impressed with his performance against Southampton.

The principle problem is judging these players on their performances game to game which can vary, rather than asking if they actually have the attributes to be a consistently elite player in our starting 11 in their position. A centre back who is slow and beaten easily in the air is just not what we need, and that's exactly why his performances vary game to game - in some games his major weaknesses get exposed, and some games they don't. Trying to compensate for lack of fundamental physical attributes is not a viable long term strategy for bringing us success.

I'd be surprised if any top half PL side would sign Martinez to play CB for them at this point, being above average on the ball just isn't worth the trade offs that come with it.

Good post. His profile is all wrong for what we need.

 

[Bwuk]

2 years to run on his contract.

If we got an offer for him (doubt it) I'd sell this summer. Talent is there but the injuries are a massive concern.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

2 years to run on his contract.

If we got an offer for him (doubt it) I'd sell this summer. Talent is there but the injuries are a massive concern.

I would bet he sees out his contract and moves on a free. Close to zero possibility of anyone buying him this summer.

 

[Shark]

Yet another initially promising defender that misses 50% of games or more, that will be leaving on a fee in two years. It's quite unbelievable how incompetent this club is in the market.

 

[red.knight]

2 years to run on his contract.

If we got an offer for him (doubt it) I'd sell this summer. Talent is there but the injuries are a massive concern.

I agree with this. Licha is a talented player but his recurring injury issues with 2 lengthy absences already is a big concern. We must avoid repeating past mistakes like those we made with Phil Jones and Shaw by being overly patient with injury prone players. If a good offer comes, we should consider selling him. I value player availability just as highly as talent which is why Bruno is indispensable to Utd.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yet another initially promising defender that misses 50% of games or more, that will be leaving on a fee in two years. It's quite unbelievable how incompetent this club is in the market.

Think more the club's medical department, the guy was rarely injured before and then we brought him back too early from a foot injury didn't we? Then he was just unlucky when that oaf fell right onto his knee, then this bad acl injury.

For all the chat around ineos, Amorim etc. O'Driscoll leaving might well be the biggest change, will be super interesting to see Mount, Shaw, Martinez i.e. the guys who have had recurring/repeat injuries and if they now stay fit.

 

[justsomebloke]

He had good and bad games throughout the season. Maybe he was on a better run of 3 or 4 games leading up to his injury, though I remember fans not being impressed with his performance against Southampton.

The principle problem is judging these players on their performances game to game which can vary, rather than asking if they actually have the attributes to be a consistently elite player in our starting 11 in their position. A centre back who is slow and beaten easily in the air is just not what we need, and that's exactly why his performances vary game to game - in some games his major weaknesses get exposed, and some games they don't. Trying to compensate for lack of fundamental physical attributes is not a viable long term strategy for bringing us success.

I'd be surprised if any top half PL side would sign Martinez to play CB for them at this point, being above average on the ball just isn't worth the trade offs that come with it.

Very poor analysis, in my view. Firstly, when fully fit, it's not like he's a defensive liability - on the contrary he has great defensive awareness and rare one on one ability. Secondly, it's not like our system requires 3 CBs who are great in the air and very fast. It does require at least one CB with the sort of passing ability he has. Plus he's one of few players in the squad with the right mentality. If it wasn't for the injuries, he'd be a key player.

 

[Quagmaguire]

He's been a great player but one we can upgrade on whilst getting in a good fee.

He is a good CL level defender but not world class.

 

[simonhch]

I’ve vacillated on Martinez. He has a world class mentality, and for a CB he is world class on the ball. But he’s slow, and is too easily beaten when dribbled at with pace. He’s fundamentally a liability in aerial duels. He’s one of the best in the business when it comes to front foot aggressive defending, very few players step up and out of the line to intercept passes and pressure players better than he does, but he’s quite poor at reading the game behind him and taking up good defensive positions. He makes up for some of this with his never say die attitude and bravery and I believe he had a multiplying effect on those around him. If he could stay fit, I’d still say he was a natural high quality fit for the LCB role in a three, but the central of the three is always going to have to cover for him because he often gets caught out of position or beaten. The plus side is that he progresses the ball so well.

The biggest concern is obviously that he’s constantly injured, and it’s hard to rely on a player like that. At his best he’s a great player but he also lacks consistency, which is another major problem. For me he’s only really viable in a system that emphasises his strengths and covers for his weaknesses. Potentially as the left of a back three (although this exposes him to quick wide players), or as an inverted LB as we see players like Gvardiol or White deployed. You can see he loved to defend but he’s more of a testesterone defender than a cerebral one.

 

[Carl]

We're kidding ourselves if we say injuries are the only concern. Outside of a handful of games he's living off the reputation of his first season. Next year is a prove it year.

Whats mad is that I thought back 3 would really suit him, but actually when he had to go out wide 1v1 he was skinned more often than not.

Love the guy but he's got a lot to do to show he's capable of holding down that LCB spot.

 

[soapythecat]

He's been a great player but one we can upgrade on whilst getting in a good fee.

He is a good CL level defender but not world class.

I think Martinez gets hugely overrated on here. He's an extremely likeable warrior for the club, and we all relate to his commitment, but I think he gets found out a lot on the pitch. He was present in the big hammerings last season, and even this season he got caught out a lot. Whether this is the midfield in front of him or we don't have the best CBs to support him, I'm not sure, but I don't think he's good enough to build a squad around or CL level.
Would he walk back into the current team? Not sure he's better than Maguire, DeLigt, Yoro.

 

[Quagmaguire]

I think Martinez gets hugely overrated on here. He's an extremely likeable warrior for the club, and we all relate to his commitment, but I think he gets found out a lot on the pitch. He was present in the big hammerings last season, and even this season he got caught out a lot. Whether this is the midfield in front of him or we don't have the best CBs to support him, I'm not sure, but I don't think he's good enough to build a squad around or CL level.
Would he walk back into the current team? Not sure he's better than Maguire, DeLigt, Yoro.

Arguably him being left footed only really breaks him in to the first team.

 

[Utterly De Ligt'd]

We're kidding ourselves if we say injuries are the only concern. Outside of a handful of games he's living off the reputation of his first season. Next year is a prove it year.

Whats mad is that I thought back 3 would really suit him, but actually when he had to go out wide 1v1 he was skinned more often than not.

Love the guy but he's got a lot to do to show he's capable of holding down that LCB spot.

Licha is probably one of my favorite players on the team at the moment, but you're right, first year was incredible, most of this season he looked a yard of pace off it and seemed to try to compensate with a lot of rash challenges. The only games he actually looked good were 2 of the 3 right before he got injured. I hope we get the Licha of 22/23 back, but at this point that was a few years and a few injuries ago.

 

[Ace]

Yet another initially promising defender that misses 50% of games or more, that will be leaving on a fee in two years. It's quite unbelievable how incompetent this club is in the market.

Hopefully we can sell him and some of the others back to Ten Hag if/when he lands a new coaching job.

 

[Todd]

Love his tenacity and skill on the ball, but to be a top CB in the EPL he'd just have to be bigger, stronger, and faster.

Nobody will buy him given his injury record, so we just need to utilize him when possible until his contract runs out.

 

[Redstain]

I don't think he's good enough, he hasn't been missed from a defensive perspective. In fact if anything it's the opposite being that the team stopped conceding regular corners in his absence.

He does play a good pass between the lines but given that none of the midfield are particularly good on the half turn it's not like the team need that quality and De Ligt / Yoro are comfortable on the ball.

I would honestly replace him with another defender (though not a priority) and or given Heaven more mins to develop.

 

[Dominos]

Very poor analysis, in my view. Firstly, when fully fit, it's not like he's a defensive liability - on the contrary he has great defensive awareness and rare one on one ability. Secondly, it's not like our system requires 3 CBs who are great in the air and very fast. It does require at least one CB with the sort of passing ability he has. Plus he's one of few players in the squad with the right mentality. If it wasn't for the injuries, he'd be a key player.

Defensive liability would be harsh, it's not like he's dropping several clangers every game. But he has plenty of poor games where his weaknesses exposed. He's not anywhere near the actual good centre backs in the league - Gabriel, Saliba, Konate, VVD - these players just deal with situations with ease. Why? They have the physical attributes to deal with them. They have the height, physicality, pace to deal with the aerials, deal with the pacey attackers.

I'm not sure how we think Martinez has rare 1v1 ability, pacey players can have him on toast.

Did you actually disagree with my sentiment that there's barely a premier league side who would actual want to buy him and have them start for them at centre back?

Again we're constantly resorting to trying to compensate. We're constantly trying to "get away with" players who don't have the necessary physical attributes to consistently perform the way we need them to.

Have a midfielder who can't run? Well just have others do the running for him.
Have a striker who moves at snails pace? Just put some pace around him
Have a centre back who looks like he's running through treacle? That's ok, the other quicker centre back will have to bail him out
Have a centre back who gets bullied in the air? Don't worry, you have a taller centre back next to them so they'll pick up the slack

There is only so much space other players can cover and only so many players they can mark at once. You need your centre back to deal with a ball played into the channel and get to the ball first ahead of the pacey attacker. When the attacker pulls onto your centre back at the back post and the cross comes in, you need your centre back to go dominate that aerial ball. You cannot rely on others to do your job.

 

[GlazersHater]

I know he’s a fan favourite. He's passionate, aggressive, a true fighter but the reality is he’s become unreliable. Since joining, he’s been hit with a string of serious injuries: a foot fracture, knee ligament damage, and now an ACL. He’s missed over 50 games. At what point do we stop hoping he’ll magically stay fit?

His market value is still decent. If we can get £25–30M, we should take it. That money could go toward a younger, more robust, faster centre-back or help fund a proper striker which we desperately need.

Plus, we’re not short on options: Yoro, Shaw (when fit), Maguire, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Heaven. He struggles in open spaces due to his height and pace, and with his current injuries, it’s only going to get worse.

I get that he’s a warrior and we all love that quality. But availability is a skill, and right now he just doesn’t have it. If we’re serious about rebuilding this squad, we have to stop getting emotionally attached and start making smart, hard decisions.

 

[golden_blunder]

All arguments aside about whether he is or isn’t the right fit, he’s had 2 big injuries now and I can only see a future of niggling injuries one after the other

 

[Bondi77]

I’ve vacillated on Martinez. He has a world class mentality, and for a CB he is world class on the ball. But he’s slow, and is too easily beaten when dribbled at with pace. He’s fundamentally a liability in aerial duels. He’s one of the best in the business when it comes to front foot aggressive defending, very few players step up and out of the line to intercept passes and pressure players better than he does, but he’s quite poor at reading the game behind him and taking up good defensive positions. He makes up for some of this with his never say die attitude and bravery and I believe he had a multiplying effect on those around him. If he could stay fit, I’d still say he was a natural high quality fit for the LCB role in a three, but the central of the three is always going to have to cover for him because he often gets caught out of position or beaten. The plus side is that he progresses the ball so well.

The biggest concern is obviously that he’s constantly injured, and it’s hard to rely on a player like that. At his best he’s a great player but he also lacks consistency, which is another major problem. For me he’s only really viable in a system that emphasises his strengths and covers for his weaknesses. Potentially as the left of a back three (although this exposes him to quick wide players), or as an inverted LB as we see players like Gvardiol or White deployed. You can see he loved to defend but he’s more of a testesterone defender than a cerebral one.

That is a great summation of the player

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He's been such a let down overall. Shame as he would have done such a better job instead of Shaw.

 

[soapythecat]

Another player we seriously need to sell on. I think he’s attract a half decent fee (£25m) but he’s really not that good. Lacks height, pace and now a constant injury concern.

 

[Irwin99]

Terrific passer of the ball, easily one of the best Ive seen at OT, and a good mentality by all accounts but you need pace and power at the back and that’s always going to be a problem.

 

[Leftback99]

Just another dreadful Ten Hag signing that set us back

 

[Ghostrider318]

Some of you guys need to take a break. His injuries have been impact injuries after some pretty bad challenges. Thats just pure bad luck. He doesnt get injured training and then sits out the seasom unlike a certain so caleld best left back in the league

 

[MadDogg]

Very poor analysis, in my view. Firstly, when fully fit, it's not like he's a defensive liability - on the contrary he has great defensive awareness and rare one on one ability. Secondly, it's not like our system requires 3 CBs who are great in the air and very fast. It does require at least one CB with the sort of passing ability he has. Plus he's one of few players in the squad with the right mentality. If it wasn't for the injuries, he'd be a key player.

While I do think that many people go overboard with the 'this player suits a 4231 but doesn't suit a 3421' narrative, I think Martinez is one that it might actually be true of. Yes, it probably alleviates one of his weaknesses a bit (lack of aerial ability), but it shines a larger light on his other weakness (lack of pace). The LCB needs to be able to cover a good amount of ground and look after the wider areas when the wingback goes forward, and Martinez struggled quite a lot with that this season.

He did start playing a fair bit better in the few games directly before the injury, so perhaps he just needed to get used to the slightly different instructions and he will be suitable in the future. But my hopes aren't too high.

 

[sideshowbob]

With the CCB stepping into midfield in build up, do you think he could fit that position for us long term? I’m not a fan of Maguire or De ligt there long term.

With 2 quicker and tall players either side like yoro, de ligt, heaven and branthwaite (Wilcox seems to like him), maybe Licha could be suited there. Need his mentality and leadership

 

[NLunited]

With the CCB stepping into midfield in build up, do you think he could fit that position for us long term? I’m not a fan of Maguire or De ligt there long term.

With 2 quicker and tall players either side like yoro, de ligt, heaven and branthwaite (Wilcox seems to like him), maybe Licha could be suited there. Need his mentality and leadership

Were we actually playing well, these concerns would become less relevant.

The center cb can stay back and the left or right cb push up with the ball in build up
when the opportunity presents. It seems to be the side cb’s who have license to get forward more than the ccb. (Of course, with Maguire playing as an elite winger and shadow striker these days, who knows).

Licha is a bit like Blind: elite ball playing capability but with defensive vulnerabilities. We will have to see how things develop. My money is on Martinez if he stays fit, in the lcb spot.

 

[Pexbo]

He has been a quality player for us at times, his ability on the ball is fantastic but I fully expect him to get limited minutes next season and be moved on in January or next summer.

I just don’t see us persisting with him when we have Yoro and Heaven as options, both so comfortable on the ball, both have break neck recovery pace and both are assets at set pieces both ends. That’s the profile we want and Martinez is a bit of a luxury if we are honest.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

He has been a quality player for us at times, his ability on the ball is fantastic but I fully expect him to get limited minutes next season and be moved on in January or next summer.

I just don’t see us persisting with him when we have Yoro and Heaven as options, both so comfortable on the ball, both have break neck recovery pace and both are assets at set pieces both ends. That’s the profile we want and Martinez is a bit of a luxury if we are honest.

Ability to drive with the ball forward is one thing but I don't think their passing is at the level of Licha, especially Heaven which I'd say average at best but we didnt see enough of it. Then there is vision in which I think Martinez has edge as well. However agreed, we should move forward towards more mobile, athletic defenders as commit our backline further up.

Think we will find use of Martinez though thanks to his passing and aggression is still good, the more compact and dominant we overal become. Same way we found place for Harry Mag. We just need to wait for the budget to upgrade him.

 

[soapythecat]

I worry about Martinez in this back 3. His height is clearly a problem in the PL and he isn’t blessed with pace. His poor games far out numbered his good games this season.
I’d like to think the club would sell if a decent offer came in. His knee injury will keep reoccurring I reckon.

 

[Pexbo]

Ability to drive with the ball forward is one thing but I don't think their passing is at the level of Licha, especially Heaven which I'd say average at best but we didnt see enough of it. Then there is vision in which I think Martinez has edge as well. However agreed, we should move forward towards more mobile, athletic defenders as commit our backline further up.

Think we will find use of Martinez though thanks to his passing and aggression is still good, the more compact and dominant we overal become. Same way we found place for Harry Mag. We just need to wait for the budget to upgrade him.

We don’t need to upgrade him right now. Remove him from the squad and we’ve still got enough even with three at the back and Lindelof, Evans and Shaw on the way out.


RCB: Yoro, Mazraoui
CCB: De Ligt, Maguire
LCB: Heaven, (Yoro, De Ligt), Fredricson


There will be minutes for him next season in his road to rehab but we can get by without him just fine. The money needs to go somewhere other than centrebacks for the next year or so.

 

[Lu Tze]

Next year he should play in the league cup and that's about it. He's basically a liability against PL level athletes and no club, even the most dominant ones, can hide that in a CB.

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

The first player who improved and looked good under Amorim. He has deficiencies, but is one of the best on the ball defenders in the world. He will come back and prove his doubters wrong again.

 

[Brightonian]

I still think he's a top, top CB when fit. His reputation on this forum seems to suffer unfairly during (admittedly non-stop) injury absences but his ability on the ball really is special even in the modern game. And his aggression in the tackle and leadership are underrated qualities.

But those absences are obviously a huge problem. And he's a much worse fit for 3 at the back than for 2. Not tall enough to anchor, not fast enough for LCB. Shame he's not interested in Napoli because he'd be a sensible sale even at a modest price.

 

[sleepehead]

I wanna see him be tried at the CCB position, he's got good attributes for that position. The only thing is that he might be too short for it

 

[17Larsson]

It's a shame he'll miss pre-season