[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Contract expiring next year. Do wonder what happens with him, maybe not this summer but afterwards. We all love him but can't have him injured all the time.

The club would be mad to offer him a new contract. Unless it’s a Michael Owen style appearance based contract - which I’m sure the player wouldn’t want anyway.

So the decision is sell or let his contract expire?

 

[TheReligion]

The club would be mad to offer him a new contract. Unless it’s a Michael Owen style appearance based contract - which I’m sure the player wouldn’t want anyway.

So the decision is sell or let his contract expire?

Mad is a bit strong. Depends on the terms. He’s our best centre half and proved so again this season.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Mad is a bit strong. Depends on the terms. He’s our best centre half and proved so again this season.

That’s debatable, but even if true, he’s available for less than 50% of our games. Thats not someone who you offer a new contract to, is it?

 

[TheReligion]

That’s debatable, but even if true, he’s available for less than 50% of our games. Thats not someone who you offer a new contract to, is it?

Is it debatable really? I think a fully fit collection of CBs and he’s the first you slot in. His quality has shone through since his return in both attack and defence.

The club and medical staff will know much more about his body and if they consider he’s broken down too much then it would be fair to move him on. If not though I don’t think it’s mad to offer him a new deal though on appropriate terms.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Is it debatable really? I think a fully fit collection of CBs and he’s the first you slot in. His quality has shone through since his return in both attack and defence.

The club and medical staff will know much more about his body and if they consider he’s broken down too much then it would be fair to move him on. If not though I don’t think it’s mad to offer him a new deal though on appropriate terms.

I don’t think he’s our best CB - so yes, debatable. But that’s not even the point, you cannot have a player that plays less than 50% of our games as a first team player.

 

[TheReligion]

I don’t think he’s our best CB - so yes, debatable. But that’s not even the point, you cannot have a player that plays less than 50% of our games as a first team player.

Who is the best CB at the club then when everyone is fit?

As I said. I don’t think it’s ‘mad’ as you suggest. Depends on the prognosis of his fitness and what terms a new deal would be on. All variables neither of us know.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Who is the best CB at the club then when everyone is fit?

As I said. I don’t think it’s ‘mad’ as you suggest. Depends on the prognosis of his fitness and what terms a new deal would be on. All variables neither of us know.

It really doesn’t matter. You are focusing on the wrong things. I would rate both Maguire and De Ligt as better, but I’d also be looking to move on from both of those as well. I have zero interest in debating who is our best defender.

Unfortunately I don’t think we can sell De Ligt, and he has a longer contract. Maguire should only stay on a reduced contract, as he will play less and less games.

So sure, we can offer Martinez a contract in 50% of his current pay. But that’s not realistic. We might be able to get a fee for him this summer, if so I would sell him.

There are many things we don’t know, if we could only discuss things everyone outside of the club knows for fact - there would be about a dozen posts per day on this forum. That’s just a way of you trying to shut down a debate.

 

[TheReligion]

It really doesn’t matter. You are focusing on the wrong things. I would rate both Maguire and De Ligt as better, but I’d also be looking to move on from both of those as well. I have zero interest in debating who is our best defender.

Unfortunately I don’t think we can sell De Ligt, and he has a longer contract. Maguire should only stay on a reduced contract, as he will play less and less games.

So sure, we can offer Martinez a contract in 50% of his current pay. But that’s not realistic. We might be able to get a fee for him this summer, if so I would sell him.

There are many things we don’t know, if we could only discuss things everyone outside of the club knows for fact - there would be about a dozen posts per day on this forum. That’s just a way of you trying to shut down a debate.

I didn’t realise you were encouraging a debate by telling everyone it would be mad to offer Martinez a new deal and then starting you have no interest in discussing the quality of the player in question against other centre halves at the club.

It seems more like you are just stating you want to get rid of the player as you don’t like his fitness record.

Martinez is the best ball playing centre half at the club. He’s also the best front foot positional defender in my opinion. Maguire and de Ligt are both classic stoppers. You tend to pair one with the other for a balanced partnership. Whilst Yoro and Heaven look extremely talented they don’t offer what Martinez does yet.

It’s not realistic for the club to restructure the centre back area anytime soon given the priority areas are midfield and full back.

The sensible decision would be to agree a reasonable extension to Martinez.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I love him but I totally agree that it's not sustainable anymore.

I feel bad for him but we need players that we can rely on.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I didn’t realise you were encouraging a debate by telling everyone it would be mad to offer Martinez a new deal and then starting you have no interest in discussing the quality of the player in question against other centre halves at the club.

It seems more like you are just stating you want to get rid of the player as you don’t like his fitness record.

Martinez is the best ball playing centre half at the club. He’s also the best front foot positional defender in my opinion. Maguire and de Ligt are both classic stoppers. You tend to pair one with the other for a balanced partnership. Whilst Yoro and Heaven look extremely talented they don’t offer what Martinez does yet.

It’s not realistic for the club to restructure the centre back area anytime soon given the priority areas are midfield and full back.

The sensible decision would be to agree a reasonable extension to Martinez.

I’m not debating the quality of the player. He’s a good player when fit, but no I don’t think he’s our best player. That’s really straight forward.

But as I’ve explained multiple times. Irrelevant.

On his fitness record alone - yes I would get rid of him.

Furthermore, it is a realistic play to move him on and replace with someone who can stay fit.

You are right, It’s not realistic to move on three injury prone players at the same time - and Martinez is the most obvious to sell, as I explained previously.

 

[Bastian]

The club would be mad to offer him a new contract. Unless it’s a Michael Owen style appearance based contract - which I’m sure the player wouldn’t want anyway.

So the decision is sell or let his contract expire?

100% sell. He's not earning a huge amount apparently. Hopefully he's back fit before the end of the season and has a good run of games and performs (and is a first XI player for Argentina) so we can get a decent amount for him. We're obviously not in any position to sell De Ligt with a mystery back problem.

And then we get a new centre back who can also play football like Martinez, but different in that he's available all the time.

 

[Rossa]

100% sell. He's not earning a huge amount apparently. Hopefully he's back fit before the end of the season and has a good run of games and performs (and is a first XI player for Argentina) so we can get a decent amount for him. We're obviously not in any position to sell De Ligt with a mystery back problem.

And then we get a new centre back who can also play football like Martinez, but different in that he's available all the time.

Unfortunately, this is probably what the club should do. I think Martinez is a brilliant footballer and much better defensively than many argue. His physical limitations are way overblown. How many foot races has he actually lost this season, or how many goals have we conceded from him losing aerial duels?

A ball playing centre back like Martinez is rare - he is exceptionally gifted with the ball, and his passing range is sublime.

However, all that simply comes in second when he is barely fit to play. We play better football with him in the team, but considering how often he is injured, a slightly less brilliant player with the ball but much more consistently available would be very welcomed.

 

[TheReligion]

I’m not debating the quality of the player. He’s a good player when fit, but no I don’t think he’s our best player. That’s really straight forward.

But as I’ve explained multiple times. Irrelevant.

On his fitness record alone - yes I would get rid of him.

Furthermore, it is a realistic play to move him on and replace with someone who can stay fit.

You are right, It’s not realistic to move on three injury prone players at the same time - and Martinez is the most obvious to sell, as I explained previously.

I find it odd that the quality of a player and their skill set is irrelevant in terms of a decision regarding their future.

To replace Martinez, that’s if you can, you’ll need to drop a huge amount of money. Well over £50-60m.

I don’t think its such an easy decision for the club to make and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him renewed.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I find it odd that the quality of a player and their skill set is irrelevant in terms of a decision regarding their future.

To replace Martinez, that’s if you can, you’ll need to drop a huge amount of money. Well over £50-60m.

I don’t think it’s such an easy decision for the club to make and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him renewed.

I find it strange you ignore his injury issues. He’s been available for less than half the games whilst at the club.

So yes, whether he’s rated best, second best or third best CB is irrelevant.

No point in having a player with a ‘particular skill set’, if they are completely unreliable - that’s unfortunately the reality.

When he’s needed, he’s more likely to be in the treatment room than in the pitch.

We already have had to replace half his availability - so he’s hardly irreplaceable!!

 

[TheReligion]

I find it strange you ignore his injury issues. He’s been available for less than half the games whilst at the club.

So yes, whether he’s rated best, second best or third best CB is irrelevant.

No point in having a player with a ‘particular skill set’, if they are completely unreliable - that’s unfortunately the reality.

When he’s needed, he’s more likely to be in the treatment room than in the pitch.

We already have had to replace half his availability - so he’s hardly irreplaceable!!

You only seem to deal in extremes. I’ve not once suggested the club disregard his injury issues. I’ve actually acknowledged them.

I just challenge the notion it would be mad to renew him as when you look at it logically it’s actually the best option providing a new deal reflects the injury challenges and unavailability in playing time.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You only seem to deal in extremes. I’ve not once suggested the club disregard his injury issues. I’ve actually acknowledged them.

I just challenge the notion it would be mad to renew him as when you look at it logically it’s actually the best option providing a new deal reflects the injury challenges and unavailability in playing time.

We disagree on almost everything.

I don’t think n he’s our best CB, and I think it would be a ridiculous risk to offer him a new contract at when it’s fitness is so poor - hence, yes I think it would be mad for the club to offer him a new contract.

Would be more than happy to offer him a ‘pay as you play’ deal with a really low base salary - but we both know that the player would refuse. So realistically such an offer that takes into account the reality that he misses most games is a non-starter.

 

[Red in STL]

I'd be inclined to offer him another year on his existing contract, whether he'd accept is a different matter of course, but this depends on whether the club thinks Heaven will be ready to be a full-time starter in a couple of years, if Licha leaves then we need a replacement, that replacement will be blocking Heaven's path

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's averaged around 18 PL games a season in his time here.

I think he's a good defender but he's not good enough to make up for how often he's injured and unavailable. If he was as good as prime Rio Ferdinand or Jaap Stam then maybe you'd be ok to just have him available for only 18 PL games a season but obviously he's not at that level.

It's a real shame but I wouldn't be offering him a new contract. If there's an option to trigger an extra year on his current deal then maybe we could do that, just because with midfield the urgent priority this summer I don't know if we'll be able to sign a new centre back as well. But I'd definitely be saying no to a new multi year contract for him.

 

[Ekeke]

I'd wait till the end of the season to decide. If he doesnt play again this season and ends up wiith 9 league starts then we obviously need to be prepared to have a different starting LCB going into the future.

However I'd rather have Lisandro for 9 starts than De Ligt for 13, or Maguire for 14. I think they'd be very simple to replace. Most teams have CBs of their type and finding a player who is 85% of their level but available almost every week is a walk in the park and some of them are better.

 

[Olecurls99]

Let's see how he goes next year. If he stays fit until Christmas, trigger his extra year and work on a new deal. If he gets another injury offer him a pay as you play and if refused, just let him go. We're not gonna get a big fee anyway given his injury record.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

If he magically plays 50 matches next season then talk about it. Until he shows that then the assumption has to be that unfortunately he can't be trusted and we need to move on, no matter how good he is.

He's cost us about a million pounds per league match so far.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Let's see how he goes next year. If he stays fit until Christmas, trigger his extra year and work on a new deal. If he gets another injury offer him a pay as you play and if refused, just let him go. We're not gonna get a big fee anyway given his injury record.

Or we could sell him this summer and get a fee for him, and use his wages elsewhere.

We have been so poor at moving on players that just don’t work. Either because there is hope that injuries will go away, or a player has a month of good performances. We need to look at the lifetime of the player at United - he’s played less than 50% of games over a period of 3-4 years. That’s simply not good enough.

 

[Scotty Doesn't Know]

We still have 2 years to decide whether we want to renew his contract, but right now I am leaning towards extending his contract in 2028, unless he misses over half of the games between now and then.

I doubt Chelsea regret renewing Reece James' contract despite him having lengthy spells out with injuries. When you are blessed with having one of the best ball playing defenders in the world, it is worth having them in your squad despite their injury issues.

Reminds me of the Ledley King situation with Spurs. Selling him or losing him on a free does not feel right when he is usually very good when fit.

 

[NLunited]

A decision to keep him or not should be based on an analysis of his injury woes. Basically: are they systemic or has he just been unlucky?

His quality is not in question at this point, but it is right to look hard at his availability.

 

[devilish]

He's 28 and his injuries are piling on. It won't improve at the latter stages of his career. Actually its probably going to get worse. I'd say cash in now. Our obsession in ignoring the writing of the wall is ridiculous

 

[Stickz]

He's 28 and his injuries are piling on. It won't improve at the latter stages of his career. Actually its probably going to get worse. I'd say cash in now. Our obsession in ignoring the writing of the wall is ridiculous

100%

If someones silly enough to hand over cold hard cash, cut him loose and buy someone with a reliable injury history.

Its' different to an attacking player, you need your first choice CB playing every week and building stability through the spine of the team. If they're continually out for long periods then you can't build with them.

 

[devilish]

100%

If someones silly enough to hand over cold hard cash, cut him loose and buy someone with a reliable injury history.

Its' different to an attacking player, you need your first choice CB playing every week and building stability through the spine of the team. If they're continually out for long periods then you can't build with them.

I don't necessarily think its a silly move. The EPL is brutal. GKs get almost no protection which means that 6ft3 players will go all in when there's a cross or a set piece. That put defenders and GKs at risk of injury and unless you've got the frame of a frigging Steve Bruce then you risk getting injured. Martinez can easily resurrect his career and do extremely well in less physical leagues such as La Liga and the Serie A. It's a move that benefits him and us. What's the point of keeping a CB who can't survive the physical punishment this league bring?

 

[Fracture90]

He's 28 and his injuries are piling on. It won't improve at the latter stages of his career. Actually its probably going to get worse. I'd say cash in now. Our obsession in ignoring the writing of the wall is ridiculous

Especially when you consider that our preferred CB pairing is him and MDL. Their on ball ability amounts to nothing if they're spending 50% of their time with us, sitting on the stands.

 

[Stickz]

I don't necessarily think its a silly move. The EPL is brutal. GKs get almost no protection which means that 6ft3 players will go all in when there's a cross or a set piece. That put defenders and GKs at risk of injury and unless you've got the frame of a frigging Steve Bruce then you risk getting injured. Martinez can easily resurrect his career and do extremely well in less physical leagues such as La Liga and the Serie A. It's a move that benefits him and us. What's the point of keeping a CB who can't survive the physical punishment this league bring?

His first significant injury was against Sevilla in Europe.

From memory, none of his injuries have been a result of in game 'contact'.

He would however surely benefit from a league where he doesn't need to exert himself. That may not be easy with his physical disadvantages though unless he wants to take a significant drop in quality. Maybe a Bundesliga club could work as I doubt he'd want to go and play in the Eredivisie at 28-29.

 

[Lyng]

That’s debatable, but even if true, he’s available for less than 50% of our games. Thats not someone who you offer a new contract to, is it?

Our play out from the back falls off a cliff when he isnt there.

 

[SubutaiScipio]

Our play out from the back falls off a cliff when he isnt there.

Get someone that can play out from the back but is also actually on the pitch most of the time. No one has ever played out from the back from the hospital bed before.

We seem to love stockpiling these quasi-doctors. People who spend more time in health facilities than on the pitch. As we get rid of a bunch another bunch arrives, and they spend several years here before we get them out.

Phil Jones, Eric Bailly, Martial, Mount, Shaw. now Martinez and maybe MDL.

 

[Bondi77]

No way we renew.
If as some have stated that he is our best defender I wonder what value as a transfer fee they would put on him?
If anyone thinks we could get upwards of 40mil for him then I would take it in a heartbeat as all we would have to do is find 15-20 mil to get a young top talent ro replace him.
His injury record is not going to get any better.

 

[VP89]

I'd keep. The current injury is different from the two legnthy ones he had, and he may make the next game. His wages aren't big, if he renews on a good contract for both sides I don't see the issue. Brings a lot to the team when fit, won't be expensive to have as a squad player and is a clear leader on and off the pitch.

 

[devilish]

His first significant injury was against Sevilla in Europe.

From memory, none of his injuries have been a result of in game 'contact'.

He would however surely benefit from a league where he doesn't need to exert himself. That may not be easy with his physical disadvantages though unless he wants to take a significant drop in quality. Maybe a Bundesliga club could work as I doubt he'd want to go and play in the Eredivisie at 28-29.

I used to play as a defender. I was nowhere near to Martinez level but I was a pretty aggressive player myself. Playing against much taller/stronger players is a nightmare. It means constantly pushing your body more by going harder then you should or being at the ball earlier then everyone. You might not pick a contact injury as a result of that but the toil on the body is tremendous and will lead to consequences. I talked about that with far better players then I was and they pretty much said the same thing. Hence why so many ex defenders whether they came from the United camp or not (ex Carragher) were against such deal. It's also the reason why SAF's top CBs were always 6ft2+ with the exception of Steve Bruce who was still 6ft but was built like a tank.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Our play out from the back falls off a cliff when he isnt there.

He’s not there most of the time. The solution therefore is to find a different way

 

[VP89]

He’s not there most of the time. The solution therefore is to find a different way

He's made 14 appearances this season from 31. He'd effectively need to come back vs Leeds and maintain a run of games again to show for a decent PL season outing.

 

[Ekeke]

He’s not there most of the time. The solution therefore is to find a different way

Need to find another ball playing CB for £50 million then. Will also take away from the budget for midfield

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

This is the first time where I’m going to say we should sell a player who 1) I think is class 2) I like him.

I think us losing Casemiro means we miss massive aerial threat for set pieces. We need to replace that.
The replacements earmarked for Casemiro doesn’t really sound like they’ll be as threatening as him in the box.

Meaning, it needs to come from elsewhere. I think we need another CB who can do that.

I feel fraudulent typing it and I’ll probably change my mind in 48 hours but I just think it’s worth selling when his stock is high. I think his Injury prone trait currently may be tainting my opinion too.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Need to find another ball playing CB for £50 million then. Will also take away from the budget for midfield

If a player is unavailable for more than 50% of matches - then he needs replacing.

No point in paying for players who can’t get on the pitch.

There are always sacrifices when it comes to transfers. That’s why I would try and offload him and get a few quid for him, to put towards someone who we ca actually put out on the pitch.

 

[Ekeke]

If a player is unavailable for more than 50% of matches - then he needs replacing.

No point in paying for players who can’t get on the pitch.

There are always sacrifices when it comes to transfers. That’s why I would try and offload him and get a few quid for him, to put towards someone who we ca actually put out on the pitch.

For sure. The problem is finding the replacement. Who is it for £50 million?