[harms]

To say that he's a horrible defender would be very reactionary — he has been absolutely instrumental for us just a few months ago and can play exceptionally well in this league, he has proven that. This time he hasn't returned from his injury in any resemblance of a good form though and was very poor even before the sending off. And when he's having an off day, he's usually terrible.

Legendary clearance to be fair to him, it's a shame that we haven't came back to win it and it was ultimately pointless.

 

[Champ]

Can you think of any clearances off the line for a sure goal from Lindelof?

I'm sure there is one or two given he was here so long, but I doubt you remember one. That save was nothing like Lindelof

I can think of one from DCL...does that make him a good defender too??

 

[Ekeke]

I can think of one from DCL...does that make him a good defender too??

Yes. It was very good defending. However it wasnt racing across to save a goal, it was just standing still and clearing it from a set piece

 

[Adz_99]

I think he'll come good again but it's a very hard pill to swallow when he misses so many games through injury and then turns in a performance like that. He needed to be a leader today in the absense of Maguire and De Ligt.

 

[flameinthesun]

To say that he's a horrible defender would be very reactionary — he has been absolutely instrumental for us just a few months ago and can play exceptionally well in this league, he has proven that. This time he hasn't returned from his injury in any resemblance of a good form though and was very poor even before the sending off. And when he's having an off day, he's usually terrible.

Legendary clearance to be fair to him, it's a shame that we haven't came back to win it and it was ultimately pointless.

Do you think he's a CB to build a defence around or do you think he'd be a good squad player to have? If we were gearing up for a title challenge.

 

[Ekeke]

Not enough speed and mobility in that pair.

The game moving back to more of a long ball, set piece game changes the discussion significantly though.

Well that nullifies the point then. We have bigger CBs, we dont pick them together and just any old bigger CB isnt going to make us look better. It would have to be one that isnt much worse than Martinez in the areas hes good at as well

 

[Ekeke]

Where is de Ligt? The answer is not at the club.

I have no idea what you just said

de Ligt has been here 2 seasons. Maguire has also been here for more than 2 seasons

They dont play together despite being bigger than Martinez. So no, not any bigger CB is going to make us look better else they'd be picked together instead of him.

 

[Ekeke]

Do you think he's a CB to build a defence around or do you think he'd be a good squad player to have? If we were gearing up for a title challenge.

Who is a good enough CB to build the defence around? The way you say it makes it sound like we're signing 1 CB to partner a player and 2 fullbacks that also suit him. We have never done that for any one CB. They come in and fit in with whats around them or they fail.

 

[arthurka]

Needs to be sold, just a non entity. Always injured and when needed he shows up like this.

 

[flameinthesun]

Who is a good enough CB to build the defence around? The way you say it makes it sound like we're signing 1 CB to partner a player and 2 fullbacks that also suit him. We have never done that for any one CB. They come in and fit in with whats around them or they fail.

Do you think for a title challenging team Martinez is good enough to be 1 of the 2 CBs?

 

[harms]

Do you think he's a CB to build a defence around or do you think he'd be a good squad player to have? If we were gearing up for a title challenge.

The biggest if is his injury record. The second if is his partner — he's a player with clear limitations (even though when he's in a good form, those aren't as drastic as you'd think by reading this thread tonight) and he needs to have complimentary players around him more than your usual all-rounded defender. But he's absolutely capable of being a starter in a title challenging team (if he keeps himself fit) — put him in a City's team and he'd be thriving; his ball-playing skills are that good (again, not really for show tonight — but we've seen more than enough to say that).

If he keeps getting injured (and, following that, has periods of poor form trying to find his footing), it doesn't really matter what he can do on his best days.

 

[Walrus]

People are overreacting. He had a poor game tonight, but was likely rushed back from injury in a match that didn’t really suit him. The red card was a farce and he made a great goal saving tackle/clearance.

 

[Bobski]

I have no idea what you just said

de Ligt has been here 2 seasons. Maguire has also been here for more than 2 seasons

They dont play together despite being bigger than Martinez. So no, not any bigger CB is going to make us look better else they'd be picked together instead of him.

Martinez is slow as well as small. He can't really compete for most aerial balls and struggles badly when pulled into wide areas. When sharp he can be quite agile and proactive about winning balls as they go into strikers feet, but it also puts a lot of pressure on his partner to dominate in those other areas.

Wonderful ball player, there is no denying that but a more balanced pair would probably give Utd a stronger base.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

I have his shirt and like him in general, but he's not dependable, throughout his performances and availability. We dont need a leader like that. Definitely prefer Harry Mag to start over him, much more dependable and more quality player.

Maybe time for Heaven to be given some chances? Yoro is not all that either. De light injury prone. Interesting situation regarding the CBs anyway

 

[Roboc7]

Do you think he's a CB to build a defence around or do you think he'd be a good squad player to have? If we were gearing up for a title challenge.

The answer is clearly No and this is the problem we have. The two centre backs we have who should be in their prime are probably already passed their peak physically and can’t stay fit anyway.

The clock is ticking for Maguire and Heaven and Yoro are young players who at best will take time to develop. Who do you build the defence around when we also need a RB and LB, every single defender we have is a squad player at best.

 

[El Jefe]

Get Senesi on a free, sell Ugarte and make Licha his replacement in midfield or stand in for CBs. Fill two positions for nothing leaving us enough to buy two proper midfielders.

 

[Ekeke]

Martinez is slow as well as small. He can't really compete for most aerial balls and struggles badly when pulled into wide areas. When sharp he can be quite agile and proactive about winning balls as they go into strikers feet, but it also puts a lot of pressure on his partner to dominate in those other areas.

Wonderful ball player, there is no denying that but a more balanced pair would probably give Utd a stronger base.

I disagree that hes slow, but yes balance is the key in duos such as midfield and CB. Lisandro needs the typical type of CB next to him - big and good in the air. Thats all he needs. Yoro is young and may not ever be that type of CB, but Maguire who is that type got himself suspended so we were forced to make do werent we.

 

[flameinthesun]

The biggest if is his injury record. The second if is his partner — he's a player with clear limitations (even though when he's in a good form, those aren't as drastic as you'd think by reading this thread tonight) and he needs to have complimentary players around him more than your usual all-rounded defender. But he's absolutely capable of being a starter in a title challenging team (if he keeps himself fit) — put him in a City's team and he'd be thriving; his ball-playing skills are that good (again, not really for show tonight — but we've seen more than enough to say that).

If he keeps getting injured (and, following that, has periods of poor form trying to find his footing), it doesn't really matter what he can do on his best days.

I don't think he starts for a City under Pep. One of the key reasons City can dominate and Pool was also able to was their defenders were able to deal well with the oppositions out ball being lobbed up to them. Martinez does alright for his size but lets not kid ourselves that we aren't handicapping ourselves physically there, and whilst his passing through the lines is good, it isn't enough to make up for wjat we give up.

This isn't a case of me thinking Martinez is a poor defender but more that I think we can do better than him and if we are building a team to challenge then at some point we should look to replace him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I have no idea what you just said

de Ligt has been here 2 seasons. Maguire has also been here for more than 2 seasons

They dont play together despite being bigger than Martinez. So no, not any bigger CB is going to make us look better else they'd be picked together instead of him.

They don’t play together, because they aren’t fit together. For how many games has there ever been a choice of a centre back pairing and Maguire, de Ligt and Martinez all being fit at the same time?

This is not a 90s strike partnership where you have a big un and little un as a partnership. A physical CB with pace next to either de Ligt or Maguire would be a huge upgrade.

 

[Fracture90]

I disagree that hes slow, but yes balance is the key in duos such as midfield and CB. Lisandro needs the typical type of CB next to him - big and good in the air. Thats all he needs. Yoro is young and may not ever be that type of CB, but Maguire who is that type got himself suspended so we were forced to make do werent we.

You might disagree with the notion that he is slow, but that won't make him any faster nor quicker.

 

[stu_1992]

Pissed me off tonight with a poor game, and then that hair pull which looked like a frustration move to me.

I've defended him a lot before, especially when people called him injury prone. But tonight was just stupid. We've waiting for him to come back from an injury again, and we desperately needed him with other experienced options not available and he let us down badly tonight with a stupid red card.

 

[RonaldoVII]

Needs to be shipped out in the summer

 

[Roboc7]

I disagree that hes slow, but yes balance is the key in duos such as midfield and CB. Lisandro needs the typical type of CB next to him - big and good in the air. Thats all he needs. Yoro is young and may not ever be that type of CB, but Maguire who is that type got himself suspended so we were forced to make do werent we.

I think we make this excuse too often for our players, we need a bigger, faster and stronger CB than Martinez. Just like we need a much more mobile CM than Casemiro. We need to stop trying to accommodate these players because they are exceptional in small aspects of their roles. Or trying to make excuses becise of who they have to play with, we just need better and more well rounded players.

 

[Ekeke]

You might disagree with the notion that he is slow, but that won't make him any faster nor quicker.

And he doesnt need to be so thats good

 

[Ekeke]

They don’t play together, because they aren’t fit together. For how many games has there ever been a choice of a centre back pairing and Maguire, de Ligt and Martinez all being fit at the same time?

This is not a 90s strike partnership where you have a big un and little un as a partnership. A physical CB with pace next to either de Ligt or Maguire would be a huge upgrade.

They've been fit together plenty last season. They didnt play together because they both fulfil the same role and we want to play out from the back

 

[Fracture90]

And he doesnt need to be so thats good

He doesn't need to be faster/quicker than he is in order to be a better defender? What are you on buddy?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Pissed me off tonight with a poor game, and then that hair pull which looked like a frustration move to me.

I've defended him a lot before, especially when people called him injury prone. But tonight was just stupid. We've waiting for him to come back from an injury again, and we desperately needed him with other experienced options not available and he let us down badly tonight with a stupid red card.

Got hit in the neck by DCL (like Yoro did) and grabbed out, caught bobble and released in half a second.

Only VAR (and Tierney obviously) arsed about it.

Wider performance? Mixed

 

[Dominos]

We have Maguire and de Ligt. Why havent they been the first choice partnership if thats the case?

Firstly, they've barely been fit at the same time together. Secondly, they're both suited to play on the right. Thirdly, they're both slow. Fourthly, neither are elite defenders either.

Though a fit De Ligt is probably the closest we have to a suitable CB if we could find a partner for him who's better than him and has pace. But he's never fit anyway so irrelevant.

Brutal that we've left ourselves with so many holes in the squad.

 

[Dominos]

I'm surprised there isn't more excuses being made for him regarding the red card. I've never seen a United player get a red card in all my years that the fans thought was the players fault. Every time the fans blame the referee.

I felt it's VAR official being a jobsworth, he could have let it go and no one would have batted an eyelid. But ultimately our players need to stop giving the officials opportunities to send them off. Everyone on the pitch managed not to pull someone's hair today except Martinez, it's really not that difficult to avoid doing.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

I'm surprised there isn't more excuses being made for him regarding the red card. I've never seen a United player get a red card in all my years that the fans thought was the players fault. Every time the fans blame the referee.

I felt it's VAR official being a jobsworth, he could have let it go and no one would have batted an eyelid. But ultimately our players need to stop giving the officials opportunities to send them off. Everyone on the pitch managed not to pull someone's hair today except Martinez, it's really not that difficult to avoid doing.

I agree. Our players do stupid things a lot

 

[Dominos]

I agree. Our players do stupid things a lot

My favourite was Maguire's a couple of weeks ago where fans were actually saying "Maguire saw Amad get fouled at the other end without it being given so he thought fouls were acceptable with this ref so can't really blame him".

It's no wonder our players make such dumb decisions when they've got an army of fans ready to absolve them of responsibility every time.

 

[harms]

I'm surprised there isn't more excuses being made for him regarding the red card. I've never seen a United player get a red card in all my years that the fans thought was the players fault. Every time the fans blame the referee.

I felt it's VAR official being a jobsworth, he could have let it go and no one would have batted an eyelid. But ultimately our players need to stop giving the officials opportunities to send them off. Everyone on the pitch managed not to pull someone's hair today except Martinez, it's really not that difficult to avoid doing.

I think that’s on you and not on the fans, really. Because that happens (fans admitting the fault of a player) the majority of the time when someone gets sent off.

Even with the Maguire example that you’re using people mostly weren’t mad about the red & the pen, they were frustrated by the inconsistency when the similar foul on Amad wasn’t called out.

 

[ExoduS]

Amazing hair pulling technique.

 

[Heinzesight]

Three match ban including Liverpool at home. If ever a punishment didn’t fit the crime.

 

[crackers0seven]

Can we appeal the 3 match ban??

 

[shabin_d_great]

Love his tenacity and grit. Good defender who reads the game well. But his lack of height has always been a disadvantage.

DCL would have targeted Shaw or maz it licha was able to beat DCL in air. This means they start their attack in the wings. But with licha we lose the ball in the middle and that opens so many options for others to attack.

Plus headed clearances are poor.

We need to move on. Sell him

 

[Dominos]

Can we appeal the 3 match ban??

Because it was such a non-incident I hadn't even registered that it was 3 games, yikes.

Huge pressure on Maguire to stay fit now because we're screwed otherwise.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

That ban should be overruled.

 

[Fortitude]

DCL is not a good game for someone like him to return to the fold facing. He’d have been told to get right in on Martinez and not only test his fitness, but his ability to handle the rough and tumble.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Hairpulling is such a btch move

Think he did it in the Dutch league as well