[Bondi77]

It seems to me that his best asset is passing when he is not under pressure.
As an actual central defender he is really not that good.

 

[NLunited]

It seems to me that his best asset is passing when he is not under pressure.
As an actual central defender he is really not that good.

He is also press resistant.

He looked pants against Egypt, but Argentina are a bit shit. For us, he‘s been a good defender and his passing is the best among cb‘s.

 

[Fobal]

He has been great so far till this game where he struggled more. He'll recover, it's always risky playing with such a high line and constantly anticipating

 

[Ekeke]

What's going on, can someone tell me why we hate him now so I can jump on that particular bandwagon? Got bored of hating on Ederson.

His last 4 games against the best striker in the world, said striker has scored 0 goals. His team has scored 0 goals in those games also. 5 out of 7 matches that striker hasnt scored playing against him, the best record of any player in the world

But he's shit somehow because an Egypt player beat him to a header

 

[In Rainbows]

It seems to me that his best asset is passing when he is not under pressure.
As an actual central defender he is really not that good.

I know he was tried in the past as a DM, but if Lindelof can do that role, I don't see why Lisandro can't. Assuming he stays healthy.

 

[genuineMan]

I know he was tried in the past as a DM, but if Lindelof can do that role, I don't see why Lisandro can't. Assuming he stays healthy.

he is slow.

 

[Marwood]

He's being judged a bit harshly on the goals. He gets beaten to a header by a bigger guy. He sprints back the full length of the pitch then one and one has to stick with an attacker about to latch onto a cutback/cross. Not easy, the goalscorer has the advantage in both situations.

But sometimes you have to accept the limitations of a smaller guy at CB. A big part of that role is simply getting in the way. In the way of shots, headers, blocking out a cut back. Obviously being bigger helps with that. It's something he'll always be limited in doing.

But this is why I'd try him as a 6. You negate that weakness he has at CB.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He's being judged a bit harshly on the goals. He gets beaten to a header by a bigger guy. He sprints back the full length of the pitch then one and one has to stick with an attacker about to latch onto a cutback/cross. Not easy, the goalscorer has the advantage in both situations.

But sometimes you have to accept the limitations of a smaller guy at CB. A big part of that role is simply getting in the way. In the way of shots, headers, blocking out a cut back. Obviously being bigger helps with that. It's something he'll always be limited in doing.

But this is why I'd try him as a 6. You negate that weakness he has at CB.

I assume the people saying he should be tried as a midfielder are different to those who think he’s a great CB? Anyone who thinks he should be playing in midfield, can only be doing so because they think he’s not the right defender for us.

We are buying at least another midfielder, so I genuinely don’t get this idea of playing him in midfield.

 

[Marwood]

I assume the people saying he should be tried as a midfielder are different to those who think he’s a great CB? Anyone who thinks he should be playing in midfield, can only be doing so because they think he’s not the right defender for us.

We are buying at least another midfielder, so I genuinely don’t get this idea of playing him in midfield.

Yeah i think he has limitations as a CB. What happened yesterday we've seen plenty for us. A CB being held back by his stature.

As a squad we have too many CB's and not enough CM's. We also don't have that much money to spend.

So to me it makes a lot of sense to take the CB who is excellent on the ball, not so excellent at defending, and push him into CM.

The idea/hope we're getting another CM via a transfer doesn't negate our need for a proper ball player in there.

 

[Xeque_279]

I assume the people saying he should be tried as a midfielder are different to those who think he’s a great CB? Anyone who thinks he should be playing in midfield, can only be doing so because they think he’s not the right defender for us.

We are buying at least another midfielder, so I genuinely don’t get this idea of playing him in midfield.

Not necessarily. I think he has all the traits to really excel in the midfield quarterback role. Very press resistant, great passing range and always looks to break the lines. Has a bit of a shot in him too. He's not the fastest, but not a slouch either.
Don't think he's a bad CB, but all these traits would make him excel in midfield too imo.

 

[Mike Smalling]

When I rise to power on this forum, it will be in instant permanent ban to suggest Martinez can play in midfield. It's so unfathomably dumb. FM logic.

 

[Marwood]

When I rise to power on this forum, it will be in instant permanent ban to suggest Martinez can play in midfield. It's so unfathomably dumb. FM logic.

How did you think he played vs Aston Villa last season as a CM?

 

[Mike Smalling]

How did you think he played vs Aston Villa last season as a CM?

I don't care. I know he doesn't have the qualities needed to play CM in the Premier League. It's obvious.

 

[JJ12]

How did you think he played vs Aston Villa last season as a CM?

He's got the tools for the odd cameo in the right game but a full time CM in the premier league is definitely not in his future.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Think he was really quick, agressive and had more emphasis on our game when he played with Varane. But since his first injury against Sevilla, and last year knee injury, think he got slower.

To me we should think about selling if we have an opportunity and upgrade.

We shouldn't give him a pay rise.

Like his behavior, but there are ten better defender in the league than him

 

[Marwood]

I don't care. I know he doesn't have the qualities needed to play CM in the Premier League. It's obvious.

It's a straightforward question. How did he play in that game? You're on a United forum being asked how a United player performed. Don't understand the reluctance to answer.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's a straightforward question. How did he play in that game? You're on a United forum being asked how a United player performed. Don't understand the reluctance to answer.

I don't recall every performance from every player in every game.

But let's assume he played well, which I think you are implying. 45 minutes is not enough to say that he can play a position. He doesn't have the mobility, the physicality, the experience or the ball-playing ability to play in CM consistently. He's good on the ball when everything is in front of him as a CB - that's not the case at CM. You don't convert a 28 year old player to a midfielder in the most difficult and intense league in the world.

It just won't happen.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

It's a straightforward question. How did he play in that game? You're on a United forum being asked how a United player performed. Don't understand the reluctance to answer.

I doubt there and many people who can recall a specific player in a random specific game.

It’s an unreasonable question, irrespective of whether it’s on a United forum or not.

How did Mbeumo play when we beat Chelsea?

 

[Marwood]

I don't recall every performance from every player in every game.

But let's assume he played well, which I think you are implying. 45 minutes is not enough to say that he can play a position. He doesn't have the mobility, the physicality, the experience or the ball-playing ability to play in CM consistently. He's good on the ball when everything is in front of him as a CB - that's not the case at CM. You don't convert a 28 year old player to a midfielder in the most difficult and intense league in the world.

It just won't happen.

It's odd you're so emphatic about his ability to play in CM but have no recollection at all of his one game there last season. Especially when everyone praised said performance.

He was excellent that game and he absolutely has the ball playing ability to do the role. I doubt any of the CM signings we make this summer will match him on that score.

 

[Ekeke]

It seems to me that his best asset is passing when he is not under pressure.
As an actual central defender he is really not that good.

He's the best at evading a press often dribbling past someone putting him under pressure. So then he gets his time on the ball anyway and you've lost a man behind the ball

Its still the best thing you can do to have players press him because hopefully he doesnt see or time a pass to a run as well as when he would have had time on the ball originally, or a 2nd man might be able to come across and take the ball. But hes also the best at playing against being pressed and reducing its effectiveness,while still starting moves off from the back

Because he plays so deep (CB) its almost impossible to have an effective way to stop him starting moves, unlike a deep CM like a Carrick as its easier to commit bodies forward that far. If they get played around they arent 70 yards from defending their own goal. You could even have a player man mark Carrick, or as we did against Pirlo. Who is going to man mark a CB?

 

[Marwood]

I doubt there and many people who can recall a specific player in a random specific game.

It’s an unreasonable question, irrespective of whether it’s on a United forum or not.

How did Mbeumo play when we beat Chelsea?

If Mbeumo had played out of position in CM I'd have remembered it. What do you think? Would you have remembered it?

 

[Ekeke]

It's a straightforward question. How did he play in that game? You're on a United forum being asked how a United player performed. Don't understand the reluctance to answer.

He was good for iirc 39 mins or something before we made more subs and he went back to play in defence, it doesnt mean it'll work every week and if he was doing so well in training in midfield we'd have picked him there when we've had injury issues. We also lost 2-1

He's particularly effective because he plays like a midfielder in defence where opposition tactics cant help control him

 

[Berbasbullet]

If Mbeumo had played out of position in CM I'd have remembered it. What do you think? Would you have remembered it?

Just to interject in this conversation.

Martinez was great in midfield that game, I remember it being a big surprise that he got brought on in that position but he was actually really good.

No idea if that could translate long term or not but those 45 minutes he played well.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's odd you're so emphatic about his ability to play in CM but have no recollection at all of his one game there last season. Especially when everyone praised said performance.

He was excellent that game and he absolutely has the ball playing ability to do the role. I doubt any of the CM signings we make this summer will match him on that score.

Maybe I didn't even watch the game. I have no idea.

If he was so excellent, you have to wonder why he wasn't used there again though. Especially considering it's a position we have been short of options in, and Ugarte has been so bad whenever he has gotten the chance. Maybe the professional coaches and managers with decades of experience also see some potential issues.

Anyway, I'm 100% convinced that he doesn't have the qualities to play CM in the Premier League, and I will be extremely surprised if it happens with any kind of sustained success. We are constantly crying out for more dynamic, mobile and physical midfielders, and Martinez certainly won't be that.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

If Mbeumo had played out of position in CM I'd have remembered it. What do you think? Would you have remembered it?

No. I don’t remember such minor things like that.

I don’t remember the Martinez game you highlighted either.

 

[Ekeke]

Made 1 mistake losing out to a player in the air for a headed goal. Other than that played well. Also won the freekick down the leftwing that people moan about denying Egypt a goal... Nobody seems to appreciate the left CB goes past a player down the left wing and wins a freekick correctly for a foul for both holding the shirt and stepping on his foot

 

[Oranges038]

Maybe I didn't even watch the game. I have no idea.

If he was so excellent, you have to wonder why he wasn't used there again though. Especially considering it's a position we have been short of options in, and Ugarte has been so bad whenever he has gotten the chance. Maybe the professional coaches and managers with decades of experience also see some potential issues.

Anyway, I'm 100% convinced that he doesn't have the qualities to play CM in the Premier League, and I will be extremely surprised if it happens with any kind of sustained success. We are constantly crying out for more dynamic, mobile and physical midfielders, and Martinez certainly won't be that.

He just doesn't have the mobility, it's never going to happen.

 

[Marwood]

Maybe I didn't even watch the game. I have no idea.

If he was so excellent, you have to wonder why he wasn't used there again though. Especially considering it's a position we have been short of options in, and Ugarte has been so bad whenever he has gotten the chance. Maybe the professional coaches and managers with decades of experience also see some potential issues.

Anyway, I'm 100% convinced that he doesn't have the qualities to play CM in the Premier League, and I will be extremely surprised if it happens with any kind of sustained success. We are constantly crying out for more dynamic, mobile and physical midfielders, and Martinez certainly won't be that.

Personally I'm not going to judge a guy based on Amorim's CM choices. You could flip it and say after a really good performance at CM why wouldn't you ever try it again. Makes no sense. But that was Amorim and his CM choices summed up.

 

[Marwood]

He was good for iirc 39 mins or something before we made more subs and he went back to play in defence, it doesnt mean it'll work every week and if he was doing so well in training in midfield we'd have picked him there when we've had injury issues. We also lost 2-1

He's particularly effective because he plays like a midfielder in defence where opposition tactics cant help control him

No of course it doesn't. I was only asking a poster who is emphatically against Martinez as a CM what he thought of the one game he actually played there. It's a fair enough question.

As I've said to that other poster, no way am I dismissing him as an option there based on Amorim's decision making.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I think he's invaluable to us but that's because we've lacked a progressive passer in the center of the park for years, probably since Carrick.

To progress the ball you either pass or dribble, we have a few who can dribble in Cunha, Amad, Mainoo etc but nobody has that long range vision & passing, if we get that in the midfield and he's good I do think losing Martinez would be less of a blow but after buying Ederson and being linked with Tchouameni etc it would appear that isn't the profile we are after so I would not want to sell him.

 

[Dannn411]

I do not understand why people keep repeating this same tired notion that he cannot play in a PL midfield because he doesn't have the physique. So you're saying all PL midfielders are physical specimens? Come on. He has the most important tools needed to excel in any midfield in any league. A footballing brain, excellent passing range and physicality. He absolutely can excel in midfield in the Premier League.

 

[Ekeke]

No of course it doesn't. I was only asking a poster who is emphatically against Martinez as a CM what he thought of the one game he actually played there. It's a fair enough question.

As I've said to that other poster, no way am I dismissing him as an option there based on Amorim's decision making.

Me either

I can see it being useful in some games.

However I also think Lisandro has developed a way to play as an on the ball DM making more progressions than most DMs from the CB position. So I think it benefits us to continue to use that specialised skill as like I said previously in this thread, a manager might man mark a midfielder but they arent going to man mark a CB. Bruno and the left sided DM will both benefit from Lisandro finding them with forward passes into space that other CBs wont. And I think thats better than a DM needing to come to the backline and receive a safe pass from them essentially in line with the CBs like Matic used to do and lots of posters used to complain about. Thats what deep midfielders do. But Lisandro steps forward out of the defence and starts moves from the DM position instead. Its more positive with more players ahead of the ball to continue the passing moves Lisandro has started. I dont think we the fans appreciate it enough partly because as a deep midfielder or in this case a CB stepping into midfield its only going to be your direct assist a couple of times a season. But Lisandro is the guy who starts the moves like a Carrick etc used to be.

 

[Marwood]

Me either

I can see it being useful in some games.

However I also think Lisandro has developed a way to play as an on the ball DM making more progressions than most DMs from the CB position. So I think it benefits us to continue to use that specialised skill as like I said previously in this thread, a manager might man mark a midfielder but they arent going to man mark a CB. Bruno and the left sided DM will both benefit from Lisandro finding them with forward passes into space that other CBs wont. And I think thats better than a DM needing to come to the backline and receive a safe pass from them essentially in line with the CBs like Matic used to do and lots of posters used to complain about. Thats what deep midfielders do. But Lisandro steps forward out of the defence and starts moves from the DM position instead. Its more positive with more players ahead of the ball to continue the passing moves Lisandro has started. I dont think we the fans appreciate it enough partly because as a deep midfielder or in this case a CB stepping into midfield its only going to be your direct assist a couple of times a season. But Lisandro is the guy who starts the moves like a Carrick etc used to be.

Personally I think he can do more damage with his passing a bit further up the field. A good striker of the ball as well, I think he's chip in with a few goald.

And if we had a bunch of quality CM's I wouldn't suggest this at all but we don't. This to me whilst not perfect, seems a pretty straightforward way of helping the CM situation.

But that's a problem in football now with fans and I think coaches. Too much emphasis on what a player can't do. A safety first approach. This is why nobody can agree on a CM transfer target, it's just a bunch of people pointing out the drawback of a player.

I'd switch the focus a little bit more towards what a player can do.

 

[Semigoodlookin]

Playing him in midfield is a strange hill to die on. It screams of trying to shoehorn in a likeable player because he is not good enough in his actual position.

 

[MadDogg]

Rojo was an awful player. Who cost us an absolute fortune when you factor in Nani.

Rojo was actually quite good at CB up until he did his cruciate. It's just that LVG mostly played him at LB where he was terrible. When Mourinho came in and played him in the centre Rojo was actually our best defender in 16/17. Unfortunately he did his cruciate at the end of that season and he never recovered from that, and he was then terrible no matter what position he played from that point on.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Can’t believe people are open to the idea of him leaving. There’s no better CB at bringing the ball out of decency in the world football. One mistake and you all lose it. Argentina were porous yesterday and one poor mistake is not the end of the world. If he can stay fit, it’s a no brained - brilliant footballer.

 

[Eckers99]

Can’t believe people are open to the idea of him leaving. There’s no better CB at bringing the ball out of decency in the world football. One mistake and you all lose it. Argentina were porous yesterday and one poor mistake is not the end of the world. If he can stay fit, it’s a no brained - brilliant footballer.

People, myself included, are open to him leaving for this one reason. If he'd been available more over the last few years, there wouldn't be much to debate.

He hasn't, so there is.

 

[Reds Under The Bed]

He’s clearly a decent player but his fitness record is shockingly bad.

We can’t rely on him long term.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Available for less than 50% of games during his several years at United. And now, people want to move him to midfield...

The best path that the club can go down is to begin the defensive rebuild alongside the midfield, should the right targets become available. Over the next couple of summer windows, United need to replace Casemiro, Ugarte, de Ligt, Martinez, Shaw & Maguire. Casemiro has already left, without a transfer fee but freeing up a huge chunk in wages. Ugarte & de Ligt are out for lengthy periods of time and Maguire is not getting any younger. Martinez just cannot be relied upon. Heaven & Yoro need a real proven quality CB alongside them to progress and you simply will not develop a good partnership if they are looking to see who is next to them from one week to the next.

I've already said how much I like Martinez for his drive and ball playing ability but he just can't be relied upon due to a horrendous fitness record. Sell, get what you can whilst their is some value.

 

[Trigestis]

I doubt there and many people who can recall a specific player in a random specific game.

It’s an unreasonable question, irrespective of whether it’s on a United forum or not.

How did Mbeumo play when we beat Chelsea?

It's not an unreasonable question when he stood out and was praised for the game after it. I think United fans tend to remember and notice players playing out of position and do really well.

If he was so excellent, you have to wonder why he wasn't used there again though. Especially considering it's a position we have been short of options in, and Ugarte has been so bad whenever he has gotten the chance. Maybe the professional coaches and managers with decades of experience also see some potential issues.

Anyway, I'm 100% convinced that he doesn't have the qualities to play CM in the Premier League, and I will be extremely surprised if it happens with any kind of sustained success. We are constantly crying out for more dynamic, mobile and physical midfielders, and Martinez certainly won't be that.

He was injured and he isn't a better CM than Mainoo or Casemiro. Just a wild guess.