Lisandro Martínez | 2026/27 Performances

[VP89]

Most players play while not fully recovered. It's unfortunately a normal thing to do

Most players don't rush back from a huge injury like that, no.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

You never really know, we said that about Luke Shaw but he's now played in 46 of the last 47 league games (he was fit but rested before the Europa league final), it's pertly possible that Mount or Martinez could do the same.

Shaw plays at half speed now, he plays so within himself and some of that has to do with him trying not to get injured. The other clear thing about last season is that we played only one game a week and our lowest no. of games for 110 years.

I’m not a fan of Martinez, but if he goes down the same route as Shaw, and loses all aggression, proactively and aggression then he would be a nothing player for us.

 

[devilish]

Most players don't rush back from a huge injury like that, no.

you'd be surprised how many times they do. I am not suggesting that Martinez is a bad player. As said before if he was in the Spanish Liga or the Serie A he'd probably be one of the top 5 CBs there. He's just not suited for the EPL. I mean name me one top CB SAF's had who was 5ft9. FFS the guy is shorter then Gaz

 

[VP89]

you'd be surprised how many times they do. I am not suggesting that Martinez is a bad player. As said before if he was in the Spanish Liga or the Serie A he'd probably be one of the top 5 CBs there. He's just not suited for the EPL. I mean name me one top CB SAF's had who was 5ft9. FFS the guy is shorter then Gaz

No I wouldn't. The injury he got was pretty bad and players don't rush back all the time from serious injuries. They often rush back from niggles yes.

This concept that he's not physically suited to our league is just a myth.

 

[devilish]

No I wouldn't. The injury he got was pretty bad and players don't rush back all the time from serious injuries. They often rush back from niggles yes.

This concept that he's not physically suited to our league is just a myth.

Yes they do. Baggio was rushed a couple of time same with Rashford. If you think that players won't be rushed during a long campaign were teams are competing at multiple fronts then think again.

But please name me how many top EPL CBs were 5ft9!

 

[VP89]

As said before please name me how many top EPL CBs were 5ft9!

As said before, he doesn't let his height limit his materials limit input on the pitch.

now you're moving goalposts like the other poster.

 

[devilish]

As said before, he doesn't let his height limit his materials limit input on the pitch.

now you're moving goalposts like the other poster.

Come on man please put actual names to your argument. How many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? I can make you a list of top EPL CBs if you want. Stam, Pally, Johnsen, Rio, Van DIjk, Vidic, Campbell, Terry, Adams, Kompany. If size doesn't matter then surely there would be more EPL top CBs who are 5ft9!

 

[Buckfast in the Park]

It was a very silly pass but it really was pishing rain by that point so I’ll give him the benefit of doubt and hope that’s his brainfart of the season out of the way.

We are a much better side with him in the team and he’s arguably one of the best ball playing CB’s ever, and its largely due to his build.
Great mentality and an excellent defender, but I do worry if he got even slower because of his injuries, but there’s no doubt in my mind he should be playing whenever available.

 

[Buckfast in the Park]

Come on man please put actual names to your argument. How many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? I can make you a list of top EPL CBs if you want. Stam, Pally, Johnsen, Rio, Van DIjk, Vidic, Campbell, Terry, Adams, Kompany. If size doesn't matter then surely there would be more EPL top CBs who are 5ft9!

Most of the names you mentioned played in a different PL era.
If Martinez played in the 90’s or 00’s he wouldn’t have been able to cut in the PL because strikers like Les Ferdinand, Alan Shearer, Nial Quinn, Duncan Ferguson, Kevin Davis, John Carew, etc would have a field day against him with classic wingers whipping in crosses to them all day and night long.

But in the post Guardiola Premier League, pretty much all teams play with inverted wingers with a structured build up, its a different game as you know.
Like, if he was taller, he wouldn’t be able to be this agile on the ball, so the good comes with the bad and we need to work around it and make sure we make the most out of who is essentially a midfielder who really enjoys defending playing at CB, like a more technically gifted Mascherano, in a way.

 

[VP89]

Come on man please put actual names to your argument. How many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? I can make you a list of top EPL CBs if you want. Stam, Pally, Johnsen, Rio, Van DIjk, Vidic, Campbell, Terry, Adams, Kompany. If size doesn't matter then surely there would be more EPL top CBs who are 5ft9

Why does he NEED to be 6ft plus? So because he's 5ft 9 hes not suited? That's been proven nonsense. Even Jamie charrager has come out admitting he was wrong to peddle that narrative.

 

[Real Name]

Come on man please put actual names to your argument. How many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? I can make you a list of top EPL CBs if you want. Stam, Pally, Johnsen, Rio, Van DIjk, Vidic, Campbell, Terry, Adams, Kompany. If size doesn't matter then surely there would be more EPL top CBs who are 5ft9!

here is space between not being suited to PL and being a top, top CB.

 

[Xeque_279]

It was a very silly pass but it really was pishing rain by that point so I’ll give him the benefit of doubt and hope that’s his brainfart of the season out of the way.

We are a much better side with him in the team and he’s arguably one of the best ball playing CB’s ever, and its largely due to his build.
Great mentality and an excellent defender, but I do worry if he got even slower because of his injuries, but there’s no doubt in my mind he should be playing whenever available.

With the ball yes, but honestly feel Heaven if given time can reach to that level. Already really good on the ball and likes passing between the lines, needs to add more range to his passing though.

With Maguire AND Licha we looks so vulnerable on the counter. Add Shaw to that and it makes it even worse. I think one of Heaven or Yoro have to start.

 

[VP89]

With the ball yes, but honestly feel Heaven if given time can reach to that level. Already really good on the ball and likes passing between the lines, needs to add more range to his passing though.

With Maguire AND Licha we looks so vulnerable on the counter. Add Shaw to that and it makes it even worse. I think one of Heaven or Yoro have to start.

Without the ball I actually get worried when we play Heaven. He's positionally no way near as smart as Licha. And on the ball obviously Licha is better too.

 

[Xeque_279]

Without the ball I actually get worried when we play Heaven. He's positionally no way near as smart as Licha. And on the ball obviously Licha is better too.

Yeah, has to work better on positioning, especially during crosses. Has way more recovery pace though and has done really well with last ditch tackles. Licha however, if gone past it's over.

 

[VP89]

Yeah, has to work better on positioning, especially during crosses. Has way more recovery pace though and has done really well with last ditch tackles. Licha however, if gone past it's over.

The only thing Heaven has over Licha is pace. Because he's positionally poor and still raw with defending aerial crosses I actually am not so sure he's better in dealing with those situations too.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

With the ball yes, but honestly feel Heaven if given time can reach to that level. Already really good on the ball and likes passing between the lines, needs to add more range to his passing though.

With Maguire AND Licha we looks so vulnerable on the counter. Add Shaw to that and it makes it even worse. I think one of Heaven or Yoro have to start.

and you can’t have neither of those two with Martinez, we would get destroyed in the air without Maguire or MDL. I would put in Heaven instead of Martinez. Provides some athleticism down the left which we have none with Shaw and Martinez.

 

[Buckfast in the Park]

With the ball yes, but honestly feel Heaven if given time can reach to that level. Already really good on the ball and likes passing between the lines, needs to add more range to his passing though.

With Maguire AND Licha we looks so vulnerable on the counter. Add Shaw to that and it makes it even worse. I think one of Heaven or Yoro have to start.

Without the ball I actually get worried when we play Heaven. He's positionally no way near as smart as Licha. And on the ball obviously Licha is better too.

I think people understand that with patience and upwards development ideally Yoro and Heaven are the future CB partnership at United, they’re incredible talents.

Yoro is 20 and Heaven isn’t even 20 yet, Nesta and Terry looked practically the finished product at 20/21 but I genuinely can’t think of any other examples for CB’s to be that consistent and well developed in that position at that age, and Terry had Desailly to hold his hand during his early years.

 

[VP89]

I think people understand that with patience and upwards development ideally Yoro and Heaven are the future CB partnership at United, they’re incredible talents.

Yoro is 20 and Heaven isn’t even 20 yet, Nesta and Terry looked practically the finished product at 20/21 but I genuinely can’t think of any other examples for CB’s to be that consistent and well developed in that position at that age, and Terry had Desailly to hold his hand during his early years.

They're very talented. Unsure if they realize potential but we need to be careful with them.

 

[Xeque_279]

The only thing Heaven has over Licha is pace. Because he's positionally poor and still raw with defending aerial crosses I actually am not so sure he's better in dealing with those situations too.

And Pace is a huge asset to have, especially with the way we're trying to press, the CBs have to do a lot of pushing up to cover CMs/Fullbacks. His positioning will only improve by playing games, some teething issues but I think its worth it to progress for the future.

and you can’t have neither of those two with Martinez, we would get destroyed in the air without Maguire or MDL. I would put in Heaven instead of Martinez. Provides some athleticism down the left which we have none with Shaw and Martinez.

Yeah, I meant one of them should start instead of Licha and we need to think of ways to phase out Megs. I really want to see Yoro/Heaven playing more games together. I feel like they can be a good partnership. Yoro is pretty strong in the air, on both ends of the pitch, obv no where close to the level of Maguire, but he's super young right now.

I think people understand that with patience and upwards development ideally Yoro and Heaven are the future CB partnership at United, they’re incredible talents.

Yoro is 20 and Heaven isn’t even 20 yet, Nesta and Terry looked practically the finished product at 20/21 but I genuinely can’t think of any other examples for CB’s to be that consistent and well developed in that position at that age, and Terry had Desailly to hold his hand during his early years.

Yup, they have all the core traits to succeed, need to be patient with them and give them more game time. The stuff they need to learn comes with playing games.

 

[TwoSheds]

Come on man please put actual names to your argument. How many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? I can make you a list of top EPL CBs if you want. Stam, Pally, Johnsen, Rio, Van DIjk, Vidic, Campbell, Terry, Adams, Kompany. If size doesn't matter then surely there would be more EPL top CBs who are 5ft9!

Fabio Cannavaro (5ft9), Roberto Ayala (5ft10), Ivan Cordoba (5ft8), Javier Mascherano (5ft9) all would have been fine playing CB in the Prem because they were excellent defenders and tough players. Weird thing about Martinez is I don't see him as being as good a defender as those guys (he certainly lacks consistency in defence if nothing else), but we look at his ball playing as making up for that. I still think he's a DM but might be wrong.

By the way if you want to look at short players who've actually played CB in the Prem the two that spring to mind outside of Martinez would be Fernandinho at City, and that wee pitbull guy at Cardiff, Chilean I think. I believe he was 5ft7 but acquitted himself well because of his strength and aggression. It can definitely be done.

 

[devilish]

Fabio Cannavaro (5ft9), Roberto Ayala (5ft10), Ivan Cordoba (5ft8), Javier Mascherano (5ft9) all would have been fine playing CB in the Prem because they were excellent defenders and tough players. Weird thing about Martinez is I don't see him as being as good a defender as those guys (he certainly lacks consistency in defence if nothing else), but we look at his ball playing as making up for that. I still think he's a DM but might be wrong.

By the way if you want to look at short players who've actually played CB in the Prem the two that spring to mind outside of Martinez would be Fernandinho at City, and that wee pitbull guy at Cardiff, Chilean I think. I believe he was 5ft7 but acquitted himself well because of his strength and aggression. It can definitely be done.

You forgot the best of them all ie Franco Baresi. However Cannavaro, Ayala, Cordoba and co didn't do it in the EPL. As many foreign players throughout the ages had tried to explain (Cech, Taibi, Silenzi, Zola) the game is played very different in the EPL. In Italy for example when a player touches a goalkeeper then most of the time the referee will give a foul in favor of the GK. In the EPL it isn't the case. Thus it makes crosses more effective which in turn encourage taller and more physical type of forward which result to CBs having to be taller.

I wouldn't consider Fernardinho as CB at City (according to Chatgpt he played an amazing record of just 27 games there) or some CB at Cardiff you can't remember the name as among the top CBs in the EPL.

 

[devilish]

Why does he NEED to be 6ft plus? So because he's 5ft 9 hes not suited? That's been proven nonsense. Even Jamie charrager has come out admitting he was wrong to peddle that narrative.

Surely SAF, Wenger, Mourinho and co had a reason as of why they never had a successful 5ft9 CB right? But I responded as of why in the previous post.


Can you please tell me how many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? Comeon its the third post and you've yet to come with a single name

 

[TwoSheds]

You forgot the best of them all ie Franco Baresi. However Cannavaro, Ayala, Cordoba and co didn't do it in the EPL. As many foreign players throughout the ages had tried to explain (Cech, Taibi, Silenzi, Zola) the game is played very different in the EPL. In Italy for example when a player touches a goalkeeper then most of the time the referee will give a foul in favor of the GK. In the EPL it isn't the case. Thus it makes crosses more effective which in turn encourage taller and more physical type of forward which result to CBs having to be taller.

I wouldn't consider Fernardinho as CB at City (according to Chatgpt he played an amazing record of just 27 games there) or some CB at Cardiff you can't remember the name as among the top CBs in the EPL.

No but just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it couldn't. Are you honestly going to tell me that Cannavaro, Cordoba or Ayala would have struggled physically in the Prem? They all had the strength and aggression to be able to succeed for sure. Baresi I never watched but I assume being an all time great he'd have been fine too.

 

[devilish]

Most of the names you mentioned played in a different PL era.
If Martinez played in the 90’s or 00’s he wouldn’t have been able to cut in the PL because strikers like Les Ferdinand, Alan Shearer, Nial Quinn, Duncan Ferguson, Kevin Davis, John Carew, etc would have a field day against him with classic wingers whipping in crosses to them all day and night long.

But in the post Guardiola Premier League, pretty much all teams play with inverted wingers with a structured build up, its a different game as you know.
Like, if he was taller, he wouldn’t be able to be this agile on the ball, so the good comes with the bad and we need to work around it and make sure we make the most out of who is essentially a midfielder who really enjoys defending playing at CB, like a more technically gifted Mascherano, in a way.

That's quite ironic considering that last season's EPL top scorer is taller then Alan Shearer, Duncan Ferguson and co. Also Arsenal won with what I consider the tallest defense I've ever witnessed in years which would dwarf our treble defense or our 3rd CL win one. EPL is built more around athleticism, pace and physicality as ever before. Once Ronaldo and Messi retire there's barely any players with the elite technical ability of the likes of Zidane, Maradona, Baggio and co left!

 

[devilish]

No but just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it couldn't. Are you honestly going to tell me that Cannavaro, Cordoba or Ayala would have struggled physically in the Prem? They all had the strength and aggression to be able to succeed for sure. Baresi I never watched but I assume being an all time great he'd have been fine too.

I remember all those players and believe me Baresi was 10 times the player Cannavaro was. However he would struggle in the EPL, especially this EPL were height, athleticism and physicality is increasing. If you change the rules then the game changes.

 

[Ekeke]

I find it weird to attribute any success to just 1 player let alone one who was available for less than half of his games since joining the club and is quite frankly horrible in air. Maybe we can start adding mount as a reason to our success while at it.

Its not attributed to 1 player. But if 1 player plays 13 of 19 games where we go from 7th to 3rd, they're obviously suited to the league so your claim was silly

 

[Ekeke]

Yet I am not the one who attribute 3rd place to a guy who barely ever plays

13 of 19

 

[devilish]

Its not attributed to 1 player. But if 1 player plays 13 of 19 games where we go from 7th to 3rd, they're obviously suited to the league so your claim was silly

As said before what made United great last season was

a- 1 game a week. Which allowed injury prone players (ex Lisandro and Shaw) ample time to rest
b- Bruno
c- 1 game a week
d- a manager who played players according to their strengths as opposed to Amorim who kept playing them out of position
e- 1 game a week.

 

[devilish]

13 of 19

He played just 19 games and had 13 starts. Yet someone he was key to use ending up 3rd. I guess such heroic performances made him with the PFA player of the year or at least he made it to the PFA XI of the year right?

 

[VP89]

Surely SAF, Wenger, Mourinho and co had a reason as of why they never had a successful 5ft9 CB right? But I responded as of why in the previous post.


Can you please tell me how many top EPL CBs were 5ft9? Comeon its the third post and you've yet to come with a single name

The era was different. Multiple posters have explained this to you. Ball playing CBs were a lot less common and Lichas unique ability to defend well despite being shorter was not the case before.

There wasn't one, but with respect the question is just daft. A profile like Licha wasn't there then and the game was also played very differently.

To suggest Licha is not suited to the PL today is a level below even Charragers takes in punditry. It constantly gets disproven and here we are.

 

[Buckfast in the Park]

That's quite ironic considering that the EPL top scorer last season is taller then Alan Shearer, Duncan Ferguson and co. Also Arsenal won with what I consider the tallest defense I've ever witnessed in years which would dwarf our treble defense or our 3rd CL win one.

Ironically, Haaland would’ve probably scored even more goals in the 90’s with again, classic wingers whipping in crosses to him time and time again, as opposed to City’s wide players either hogging the ball or passing it backwards, and Haaland having to go through matches with barely getting the ball, week in week out.
Imagine Haaland playing with Beckham and Giggs, eh?

Arsenal found an edge with being the best defensive unit in Europe, and it starts with the front 6, I don’t think their strength is due to the height of their defence, as much as it is with how well they defend from the front and as a unit with and how much malfeasance they were allowed to get away with last season in offensive set pieces, whether they’re allowed to get away with it this season, remains to be seen.

I don’t entirely disagree with you by the way, in an ideal world we would have two tall and quick CB’s who are also good on the ball, but unfortunately we don’t live in a ideal environment.
What I do disagree with, is your argument about names from 20(?) years ago from an entirely different world.
The PL is still a physical league but there’s really not many huge classic number 9’s out there who wait in the box for crosses from a right footed winger from the right, or a left footed winger from the left, if at all.

How many times have we conceded goals due to Martinez’s lack of height? It happened, but how often?
I’m personally more worried about the pace of our defense than the height.

 

[VP89]

And Pace is a huge asset to have, especially with the way we're trying to press, the CBs have to do a lot of pushing up to cover CMs/Fullbacks. His positioning will only improve by playing games, some teething issues but I think its worth it to progress for the future.

I would MUCH rather a CB who wasn't as fast but knew where to station himself.

We don't know where Heaven will land, he might get better he might not. But from a snapshot today he shouldn't come near a fit Licha at LCB.

 

[devilish]

The era was different. Ball playing CBs were a lot less common and Lichas unique ability to defend well despite being shorter was not the case before.

There wasn't one, but with respect the question is just daft. A profile like Licha wasn't there then and the game was also played very differently.

To suggest Licha is not suited to the PL today is a level below even Charragers takes in punditry. It constantly gets disproven and here we are.

So you can't mention a single 5ft9 top CB in the EPL history? Not even 1?

 

[VP89]

So you can't mention a single 5ft9 top CB in the EPL history? Not even 1?

Ive answered your question, and also explained why it's a daft way to create a "gotcha moment".

There's a 5ft 9 CB CB who proves you wrong almost every time he plays in the Premier League. You've gone from trying to talk about big injuries to then pivoting on height, to then pivoting on CBs from a different era. It's pretty clear you don't really have a point to hang on to here for Licha and the supposed lack of physicality.

 

[Ekeke]

He played just 19 games and had 13 starts. Yet someone he was key to use ending up 3rd. I guess such heroic performances made him with the PFA player of the year or at least he made it to the PFA XI of the year right?

Yes. We were 7th. What arent you understanding? We played a series of games that took us up the league under Carrick and he played 13 of 19. Thats a lot of them.

 

[Ekeke]

As said before what made United great last season was

a- 1 game a week. Which allowed injury prone players (ex Lisandro and Shaw) ample time to rest
b- Bruno
c- 1 game a week
d- a manager who played players according to their strengths as opposed to Amorim who kept playing them out of position
e- 1 game a week.

Nothing to do with what you claimed. None of those factors would have taken us to 3rd if we had a player who cant play in the premier league playing. By definition they would have cost us all the points

 

[devilish]

Ironically, Haaland would’ve probably scored even more goals in the 90’s with again, classic winger whipping in crosses to him time and time again, as opposed to City’s wide players either hogging the ball or passing it backwards, and Haaland having to go through matches with barely getting the ball, week in week out.
Imagine Haaland playing with Beckham and Giggs, eh?

Arsenal found an edge with being the best defensive unit in Europe, and it starts with the front 6, I don’t think their strength defensively is due to the height of their defence, as much as it is with how well they defend from the front and how much malfeasance they were allowed to get away with last season in offensive set pieces, whether they’re allowed to get away with this season, remains to be seen.

I don’t entirely disagree with you by the way, in an ideal world we would have two tall and quick CB’s who are also good on the ball, but unfortunately we don’t live in a ideal environment.
What I do disagree with, is your argument about names from 20(?) years ago from an entirely different environment.
The PL is still a physical league but there’s really not many huge classic number 9’s out there who wait in the box for crosses from a right footed winger from the right, or a left footed winger from the left.

How many times have we conceded goals due to Martinez’s lack of height? It happened, but how often?
I’m personally more worried about the pace of our defense than the height.

Oh no definitely not! Back then there were the likes of Vidic, Rio, Stam, Campbell and co all way better defenders than today CBs. Even the attacking minded players were better. I mean were are the Scholes, Lampards and Gerrards in today's football? The likes of Eliot Anderson had been sold for almost 120m while Savinho had moved for 70m-80m. How much would prime Roy Keane or prime Ryan Giggs cost in today's football?

What did change is that EPL teams are resorting more to a more physical and athletic catenaccio type of football. Take Arsenal's defense which was key to their success last season as an example. It's feckin massive. In terms of inches it would dwarf our treble side defense.

 

[devilish]

Yes. We were 7th. What arent you understanding? We played a series of games that took us up the league under Carrick and he played 13 of 19. Thats a lot of them.

And that's all down to Lisandro?

 

[Ekeke]

And that's all down to Lisandro?

Nobody said that. But he was part of it, so it doesnt matter what you think of his athletic traits. If he doesnt have them they werent important

 

[VP89]

And that's all down to Lisandro?

He definitely played a positive part is the point.

Why do Rio and Charrager speak highly of him? Defenders from the time you compared to. Why did Charrager come out and say he proved him wrong? Can you explain that for me please?