Just ask any CB from Baresi to Costacurta right to Rio and Vidic and the first thing they'll tell you is that the secret of a successful partnership is that they constantly play together. That will never happen with Martinez because his tiny body will break under the huge stress the EPL puts on him. He can't handle it. Which leads me to the same question I've been asking over and over again. How many top EPL CBs were 5ft9?
Lisandro Martínez | 2026/27 Performances
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Cause he's a good defender. I've already told you in the Serie A/La Liga he'd be one of the top 5 CBs there. Yet the EPL is different. It's very physical and athletic. Things are getting worse then in Rio/Carragher's time at the expense of technique. Which leads us back to the same question you keep avoiding. How many top EPL CBs are 5ft9?
I'm pretty sure Martinez - Maguire is our most used partnership out of all our CB options
What's your point exactly? De Ligt had vanished in the treatment room with one long injury and the rest are kids. I'd be very surprised if we won't revamp defense next season.I'm pretty sure Martinez - Maguire is our most used partnership out of all our CB options
There's one - Licha Martinez.
Charra said he was wrong about saying Licha would struggle in this league. Why would he say that? It sort of puts your whole "he only works in other leagues" narrative in the bin. Rio also speaks specifically about how good he's been in this league.
Why would top CBs from a tough era say he's class in this league? It's almost as though they have a pair of eyes.
Shouldn’t have been faffing about at the back for their 2nd. I’m putting it down to him being to cocky as we was 5 up. But the less we concede the better and more confidence the defence will get
Lisandro and Maguire :
48 games, 61 goals conceded by transfermarkt's count. Might be some missed off for community shields etc
1.27 goals on average conceded in those matches
My point is that they have the best partnership despite your theory. There has been a chance for other partnerships to become just as good in Lisandro's injury absences. They havent.
Oh so there's no one really because the 'one' had played less then 50% of the games he could have played because he keeps picking injuries.
And the EPL is getting more physical and athletic not less. There's barely any players left in the EPL with the talent of a Cantona, a Henry, a Paul Scholes, a Lampard, a Gerrard, a Giggs, a Zola or a Bergkamp. These days a slight upgrade on Nicky Butt is worth 116m
Dear lord you talk a lot of utter shite. Beginning to think you are wumming.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/pep-guardiola-manutd-facup-martinez-32895201
"Lisandro Martinez is top five centre-backs in the world," Guardiola said. "He made the difference on this game by playing passes through our defence."
It is not the first time Guardiola has hailed Martinez, having previously defended him back in 2022 when concerns were raised about the Argentine's height. When asked about the prospect of the 5ft 9in Martinez battling the 6ft 4in Erling Haaland, Guardiola quickly dismissed the argument.
"United paid this money, Erik [ten Hag] knows him. It's not the first time he's played against taller strikers, he handles it. [It's] important to be intelligent, brave. The crosses, Erling is taller, we see what happens."
I'm sure everyone believes you over Pep after all your arguments in this thread
He has missed 50% because of two bad injuries, one of which wasnt even in a PL game. We are going in circles and you've been pretty caught out here.
I asked you a question and you haven't answered. Why would Charrager say he was wrong about Licha not being strong enough for this league? Why would Rio actively endorse how good he is in the Premier League?
These CBs would know a thing or two about needing to flourish in the Premier League.
It is obvious, when Martinez plays we do better because of his passing ability and a better defensive shift, only issue is his fitness
It proves we need to sign someone similar to Martinez with little bit more pace and height.
A CB and LB, costs around 100M can make this team a lot better, hope management sees it too.
It proves we need to sign someone similar to Martinez with little bit more pace and height.
A CB and LB, costs around 100M can make this team a lot better, hope management sees it too.
How many of that was down to
a- playing 1 game a week which gave us so much time to recover as opposed to opposition
b- Carrick's defensive mindset
c- a certain Casemiro
d- our backup being mostly kids.
If Martinez was so amazing then why didn't he make it to the PFA XI of the year?
I don’t think Haaland would have had any issues scoring loads in the 90’s PL.
His pace with running in behind and size would present all sorts of problems to the old school PL CB’s that usually had to deal with strikers who were either fast or big, he’s both, on top of having incredible movement and finishing, forget it, he would have the likes of Adams on toast.
Put him in a United side with Scholes, Beckham and Giggs and he would’ve comfortably break all sorts of records, but that’s for another discussion.
Because he wasnt in the top 2 CBs in the league?
Who has argued that he was that last season?
But he was in our top 2 CBs last season. And if he cant play in the premier league that doesnt make sense. So clearly you dont make sense.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/lisandro-martinez/verletzungen/spieler/480762
That's his injury record.
I think Pep, SAF, Mourinho and co would know more the makings of a successful CBs all of whom agreed not to buy a 5ft9 CB.
Arteta, the current manager of the premier league winning team who beat Pep last season and Mourinho several times in league position did try to buy him
I assure you there were far better strikers then Haaland were at the time both in terms of purely goalscoring instinct (ex Shearer, Owen or even Fowler) and over all talent (Cantona, Henry, Zola and co). The EPL is shifting towards physicality and athleticism. Players who are moving at 100m+ would struggle at an old school top 4 team
Just as City tried to buy the likes of Sanchez and Cristiano Ronaldo. We always seem to win 'the right' type of transfer bids. Please go and check how tall is Arsenal's first team CBs pair. :Spoiler alert: they are taller then Martinez.
No shit. And have worse records against Haaland the most physical striker in the league. Explain it
I know his injury record. Its massively down to two bad injuries that have feck all to do with physicality. The first one stemmed from a non PL game in fact.
Answer my question please? You're dodging it and marking up theories instead.
It's a derby?
What question I am dodging? It's not like I am the one who can't name 1 top EPL CB whose 5ft9?
Look again at the list. They are all different injuries ranging from knee injury, back problems, hamstring injury, calf injury, Metatarsal fracture, cruciate ligament, muscle injury etc
I did - Licha.
I asked you the question 4 times:
Why would Charrager say he was wrong about Licha not being strong enough for this league? Why would Rio actively endorse how good he is in the Premier League?
These CBs would know a thing or two about needing to flourish in the Premier League.
So your argument about physicality being needed in the premier league goes out of the window... Because its a derby? Suddenly theres no need for speed or strength
It depends what you mean by top CB
I dont think Lisandro has been in the top 2 CBs in the league. But he's been in the top 5. If thats not a top CB to you I dont care. You dont need every position to be top 2 in the league
Guess we have a different ways at looking at things. But in my opinion we can't have two CBs that are 'slow' and the only way Heaven/Yoro get better is if they play.
But we did and went from 7th to 3rd. So how can you hold that opinion? We clearly can, did and it paid off because we did better with it than without it
If your opinion cannot be changed by evidence to the contrary, its worthless.
Just 1 CB whose been out for more then 50% of the available time. That's hardly a great record isn't it?
Regarding that question I've already answered it. Martinez is a top CB. If he was in La Liga or in the Serie A he'd be one of the top 5 CBs there. He might do a job in the EPL in a 3 men CB assuming he'd be partnered with the right people. However he's not suited for a 4 men defense in the EPL. The rules are different, it encourages physicality and height and Martinez lack both. Go and check Arsenal's CB pair. It's even taller then our treble CB pair. Van Dijk-Araujo-Jacquet are 6ft4, 6ft3 and 6ft2 respectively while Chelsea 3 men CB are all above the 6ft mark despite playing with 3 CBs. Height matters in the EPL and its becoming more important at every season that pass. It's all about stamina, physicality and athleticism these days
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You'd be amazed what a derby can do to a player especially one were club legends are poking jokes at the player prior to such derby. The incentive of doing well would be extremely high. That's why you don't focus on just 1 game. Martinez had lost more then half the games due to injury and he scores very low in terms of aerial duels. The writing is pretty much on the wall
You think we're going to play the same type of football we did last year? Sitting deep even against 'smaller' teams to accommodate Case (and the slower CBs)? If you think yes, then I have nothing further to add.But we did and went from 7th to 3rd. So how can you hold that opinion? We clearly can, did and it paid off because we did better with it than without it
If your opinion cannot be changed by evidence to the contrary, its worthless.
What?
Both players have loads on the line in a derby. According to your suggestions Haaland should be laughed off the face of the earth for having a hard time against Lisandro. But its only Lisandro who was motivated?
Yes. We're going to counter attack because thats what suits our attacking players. I dont believe we're going to try and dominate the ball at the expense of everything else like Pep's teams
Owen, Shearer or Fowler were not far better strikers than Haaland, he is literally a big old school number 9 with Owen’s pace, he would have absolutely ripped the PL apart in the 90’s.
I don’t know what this has to do with Martinez though.
In 2015-2016 we had the best defensive record in the league (tied with Spurs), it was mostly Chris Smalling and Daley Blind.
Daley Blind was about Martinez’s size and certainly less physical overall , but we played the most defensive form of possession football known to man under Van Gaal which contributed to said record, in many ways not that far from current Arsenal.
There’s more that goes to defending than height, otherwise it would be pretty simple to build a great defence.
We had teams with Maguire, Pogba, Matic, McTominay who were all massive and probably about the biggest players in the league in their position, don’t think we were that great defensively.
Why is he a player that some people call by his first name or a variant of?
Can’t we just call him Martinez.
Can’t we just call him Martinez.
Why would you want to call Lisandro that?
The only player I would call by their first name is Bruno, and that’s because we chant it. All feels Little like ‘Trent’ to me. Obviously not a hill I’m long to die on, but it’s annoys me!
The exact reason is habit from when talking about Lisandro in games when there have been multiple Martinez on the pitch, such as Argentina games or games against opponents with a Martinez. Things started to get confusing so I started to say Lisandro. But I'm going to call him whatever I want to and its funny someone is getting upset about it. After all the nonsense posted in this thread to slate him, now someone is mad that part of his name is being used. The arguments go from bad to insane. Anything to complain about, just anything, posters will put it in here.
Shearer and Owen were better then Haaland. Fowler wasn't but I was referring to eye for goal and Fowler was among the very best on that. I don't know why you mentioned the 2015-2016 season. I slept through most of it because it was painful to watch. What I do remember between one nap and another was that none of those defenders were remotely WC and Daley was weak as CB and did far worse then Martinez is doing.
I am not a big fan of tall players myself. Among my favorite players there are Scholes, Maradona, Baresi and Baggio who were hardly giants. Maradona is the best player I've ever seen playing and he made Martinez look tall. However this is the EPL and in the EPL CBs need height and physicality. That alone won't make them WC else Tosin would be the next Jaap Stam. But they are important asset for an EPL CB to have which becomes vital if the manager in question is playing with a 2 CB system. As I asked many times name me a top EPL CB who was 5ft9!
All this says is that you dont pay attention, which explains your stance on Lisandro
Martinez