Lisandro Martinez

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Is Ajax just selling all of their players?
Nah, just the press linking us to everyone on their books. Half expecting Stekelenburg to be named as the past it third choice keeper we're in for this year.
 

GledTheRed

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Him and the other one do my head in, absolute no marks who just say whatever they like for clicks.
They talk really slow to try and create drama, cringe worthy Sky puppets.

They know nothing, dickehads break off to answer their phones on deadline day from their 'sources' aka reddit / twitter.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

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They talk really slow to try and create drama, cringe worthy Sky puppets.

They know nothing, dickehads break off to answer their phones on deadline day from their 'sources' aka reddit / twitter.
That Kavesh or whatever he’s called is worse for slow talking, pronunciating his words so much. Absolute muppet.
 

VP89

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In this case I don't think Spain has a monopoly on big tall fellas that are good at heading. Netherlands is the tallest nation in the world.
Thats true to be fair
 

sullydnl

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Per fbref it looks like Lindelof contests pretty much the same amount of aerial duels (3.63) p90 and won 66.3% of them.
Actually think Lindelof's supposed aerial weakness and its impact on us is overplayed. Especially when you consider someone like Ruben Dias for example only won 59.6% of his aerial duels this season yet was still part of the best defence in the league.

Lindelof's issue is that he can be generally indecisive or overly passive in key moments. But that happens far more on the ground as that's where most of the game is played. It isn't a weakness specific to his ability to deal with aerial threats.
 

golden_blunder

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Actually think Lindelof's supposed aerial weakness and its impact on us is overplayed. Especially when you consider someone like Ruben Dias for example only won 59.6% of his aerial duels this season yet was still part of the best defence in the league.

Lindelof's issue is that he can be generally indecisive or overly passive in key moments. But that happens far more on the ground as that's where most of the game is played. It isn't a weakness specific to his ability to deal with aerial threats.
Partly. He’s also prone to the ball in the air that he watches sail over his head
 

sullydnl

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This is an interesting point of comparison between Martinez and Pau Torres.
It's definitely true that height and aerial ability aren't the same thing.

However what I would say is that if you're projecting ahead in terms of development that innate height advantage perhaps offers more scope for improvement. Looking at Torres for example, an interesting point in terms of his aerial stats is how much they improved over just three seasons. From 47.4% > 60.6% > 64.1%. And I think the potential for quick improvement was probably fairly predictable based on his size.
 

Abraxas

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So what is the general consensus in here about shorter defenders with technique, can it work in the Premier League?
My feeling is it can work if the overall setup supports the fact that we won't be on the back foot receiving balls into the box too often AND the player is a) bloody good and b) has a good leap on him.

It's clearly not ideal though, let's be honest. You wouldn't pick for a centre half to be short given the choice and there are obvious reasons for that. It's not the old days where you face Alan Shearer etc but you still have to defend areas, clear balls, defend set pieces and it all amounts to a targetable potential weakness.
 

sullydnl

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My feeling is it can work if the overall setup supports the fact that we won't be on the back foot receiving balls into the box too often AND the player is a) bloody good and b) has a good leap on him.

It's clearly not ideal though, let's be honest. You wouldn't pick for a centre half to be short given the choice and there are obvious reasons for that. It's not the old days where you face Alan Shearer etc but you still have to defend areas, clear balls, defend set pieces and it all amounts to a targetable potential weakness.
One point it does raise is the importance of sticking with a given style of play.

If we invest in less aerially dominant but more ball-playing CBs like Martinez, Timber or Torres and ETH doesn't work out, we really need the next manager to also be someone who views the CB role with a similar emphasis on ball-playing ability. Otherwise you'll immediately be going back into the CB market once again.

I'm thinking of when Mourinho inherited a team that had been using Daley Blind as a CB, for example. It didn't take a genius to realise that wasn't going to continue for long.
 

dannyrhinos89

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is he abit of a mad cnut like Rojo was?

Argentinians always seem to have that sort of mentality Well he defenders anyway.
 

Abraxas

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One point it does raise is the importance of sticking with a given style of play.

If we invest in less aerially dominant but more ball-playing CBs like Martinez or Torres and ETH doesn't work out, we really need the next manager to also be someone who views the CB role with a similar emphasis on ball-playing ability. Otherwise you'll immediately be going back into the CB market once again.

I'm thinking of when Mourinho inherited a team that had been using Daley Blind as a CB, for example. It didn't take a genius to realise that wasn't going to continue for long.
Agreed. You would think that most modern, progressive coaches would like at least a few ball playing centre halves so it probably wouldn't be a big issue. I guess some might prefer the traditional balance of having a slightly more robust defender balanced with a ballplayer, but I think we're likely to have the likes of Maguire and Varane around for a while (not that they're particularly hard men)

I think the problem with Blind wasn't just one of style. I don't think he had the athleticism to play centre half for us Mourinho or not. He seemed to lack in every area except passing. I don't think you'd ever see ETH going back for Blind no matter how cheap! The report on this guy don't seem to suggest he'll fare too badly.
 

croadyman

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Im reading up on the threads here every day (mulitple times to be honest), but Im getting a bit tired and bored of the discussions which keep repeating itself all over again.. Timber is too small, Martinez is too small, If Frenkie is so good why do Barca let him go, Frenkie is Di Maria, dont go near, Antony has too little production in the Dutch league...

We're at a point where it has no use having these discussions anymore as its a repeating circle now.. We just have to wait and see what happens when they come..
Yeah at least there is a connection between De Jong and Ten Hag whereas that didn't exist between LVG and Di Maria.

I get the concerns about Martinez & Timbers height but wouldn't write them off just because of that.

Don't have any worries about Antony because ok he may not have the input of some RW but at least he's actually left footed.
 

Utuhu

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We emphasis a lot on center back's height and aerial duel abilities because we are not yet a ball playing possession based side. We don't control games thats why some of us see the concept of CBs winning aerial duels in games as a luxury.

Ball playing center backs is the way to go, the Argentine is press resistant and extremely good with the ball. Alas without the ball, he tackles and intercept better than all our CBs.
 
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AdNani

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Yeah and nothing wrong with that, like you say it's another year off Rice's contract or scout someone else over next 12 months.
Yeah my thinking, also pretty sure we'll be a more attractive option next summer, so if there is a new DM been scouted or we go back in for Rice we'll have an easier time convincing them.
 

Herschel Krustofsky

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Could we resolve the ’height issue’ with some orthopaedic football boots? Or would the bigger sole slow him down?
 

Daslogisch

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is he abit of a mad cnut like Rojo was?

Argentinians always seem to have that sort of mentality Well he defenders anyway.
He is at times. Definitely wont be bullied. Sometimes takes stupid yellow cards with reckless challeges. Thats a bit of his weak point. But on the other hand I never saw a player get more stupid yellow cards than Sergio Ramos and he was pretty decent. In that respect Martinez is indeed a typical South American defender.
 

florisW

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I wouldn't take him if I were Man Utd. Leave him at Ajax.. he is to sorely needed there. please? :D
 

Van Piorsing

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I wouldn't take him if I were Man Utd. Leave him at Ajax.. he is to sorely needed there. please? :D
If we leave him in Ajax, Arsenal could come for him. :(

I do hope one of Timber / Lisandro will stay to keep Ajax fresh for a while.
 

Coops73

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Maybe we could kit him out in kangaroo jump shoes
Years ago when I was a young whipper snapper I had a pair of Diadora Zico’s, softest leather ever, and I had been told they were made from Kangaroo leather, which I clearly believed, but I couldn’t jump any higher and I was still shit at football….loved boxing in them though, which was weird.
 

Floyd

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Years ago when I was a young whipper snapper I had a pair of Diadora Zico’s, softest leather ever, and I had been told they were made from Kangaroo leather, which I clearly believed, but I couldn’t jump any higher and I was still shit at football….loved boxing in them though, which was weird.
Not weird at all, kangaroos love boxing. :D
 

wolvored

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Im reading up on the threads here every day (mulitple times to be honest), but Im getting a bit tired and bored of the discussions which keep repeating itself all over again.. Timber is too small, Martinez is too small, If Frenkie is so good why do Barca let him go, Frenkie is Di Maria, dont go near, Antony has too little production in the Dutch league...

We're at a point where it has no use having these discussions anymore as its a repeating circle now.. We just have to wait and see what happens when they come..
Yes we might as well just stick with what we got when you read some of the opinions on here. No player is perfect and if we had signed 18 year old Messi you would have heard too small too lightweight etc
 

Sultan

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I don't remember seeing either Martinez or Timber play. However, if Timber is our number one option and is not willing to move due to World Cup squad fears it would be probably worth waiting and doing a deal in the January transfer window. The WC could also be a good opportunity for scouting some unknown gems.
 

florisW

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If we leave him in Ajax, Arsenal could come for him. :(

I do hope one of Timber / Lisandro will stay to keep Ajax fr
is he abit of a mad cnut like Rojo was?

Argentinians always seem to have that sort of mentality Well he defenders anyway.
He does definitely have that over my dead body quality. It is now confirmed by trusted dutch journo’s that Arsenal has contacted ajax to start bidding
 

Nish115

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He does definitely have that over my dead body quality. It is now confirmed by trusted dutch journo’s that Arsenal has contacted ajax to start bidding
We've already bid it seems which got rejected.
 

Ikon

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However, if Timber is our number one option and is not willing to move due to World Cup squad fears it would be probably worth waiting and doing a deal in the January transfer window. The WC could also be a good opportunity for scouting some unknown gems.
Of course the risk of following that plan, is that Timber has an outstanding WC, and is then wanted by all of the big dogs across Europe.
His asking price soars, and he has offers from teams actually winning their domestic league and in with a shot of the CL... :rolleyes:
 

ElCuddlos

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I really like the look of this guy. Him and De Jong in a double pivot could be great. Plus the versatility to play CB. Great balance and technique. If we only get one player from Ajax this year I would take him over Antony.
 

ElCuddlos

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Is he even a DM? He's primarily a CB right?
He is but his but I honestly think he looks better suited to DM. He had a good game in that position against Chelsea. But yeah, he's also a left footed centre back which is something we don't have.
 

RedRonaldo

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Given our budget, should we sign FDJ (for 70m+), we would be only left with around 40-50m to make another signing. Would Martinez take that remaing slot?