Lisandro Martinez

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
21,077
Location
Polska
We could try someone else, however Martinez could be closest thing we could get to DM this summer as from the looks of it, United steering off from any idea of defensive minded destroyer.

The price could be easily below £40m for a current Ajax player of the year and in still good age to make step further. I'd seriously think about getting him instead of chasing impossible targets (Tchouameni, Camavinga etc).
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
14,908
We could try someone else, however Martinez could be closest thing we could get to DM this summer as from the looks of it, United steering off from any idea of defensive minded destroyer.

The price could be easily below £40m for a current Ajax player of the year and in still good age to make step further. I'd seriously think about getting him instead of chasing impossible targets (Tchouameni, Camavinga etc).
What's he like as a DM, can anyone shed some light on that at all
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
21,077
Location
Polska
What's he like as a DM, can anyone shed some light on that at all
Not so long ago he was superb vs Chelsea as defensive midfielder and ETH proved himself he can play there with success.

Technical abilities easily comparable to any high level DM, same thing when he plays as defender. For that price makes it more realistic deal than Rice or even Ruben Neves.
 

Terranova

Full Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
660
Supports
United/Ajax
Not so long ago he was superb vs Chelsea as defensive midfielder and ETH proved himself he can play there with success.

Technical abilities easily comparable to any high level DM, same thing when he plays as defender. For that price makes it more realistic deal than Rice or even Ruben Neves.
Problem is that the season after that Ten Hag publicly stated that Martinez wasn't good enough for DM(and Tadic wasn't good enough to be a striker:confused:) and proceeded to bench him. So i'm not sure Ten Hag will use him as a DM, unless we can't get anyone else and Martinez comes to United.
 

Van Piorsing

Lost his light sabre
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
21,077
Location
Polska
Problem is that the season after that Ten Hag publicly stated that Martinez wasn't good enough for DM(and Tadic wasn't good enough to be a striker:confused:) and proceeded to bench him. So i'm not sure Ten Hag will use him as a DM, unless we can't get anyone else and Martinez comes to United.
That's exactly my point. We can get someone else specialized in this exact role, but from the looks of it United can't get a DM or is not willing on strengthening there, plus Timber could be delayed till next year.

Martinez covers both positions (CB & DM) straight away while offering quality for not overly insane price that could easily go higher in future. Some sources claim price oscilating near £30m and If there's ounce of truth in this, this could be sensitive deal, leaving financial space to attack market for other targets.
 

Tallis

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2020
Messages
822
Not sure why we’re doing this slowly bit by bit. We should just swap teams with Ajax. I think Martial, AWB, Maguire etc may actually do well over there.
 

Andrew7582

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
588
This would be a weird one if we target Martinez instead of Pau Torres, they will both cost about the same. Torres is proven in a top league and won't have the height issues that Martinez will have. We need a DOF for things like this, to overrule the manager when he's fixated on a personal choice despite there being more logical options available.
 

therealtboy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
455
Location
Dubai
Supports
Feyenoord
This would be a weird one if we target Martinez instead of Pau Torres, they will both cost about the same. Torres is proven in a top league and won't have the height issues that Martinez will have. We need a DOF for things like this, to overrule the manager when he's fixated on a personal choice despite there being more logical options available.
Martinez is more bang for the buck. He can play DM(where I see him playing a lot this season) play as a CB and as a left back. He can play in a 2 and a 3 and can play as a DM as a single pivot and in a double pivot. No brainer here.
 

Andrew7582

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
588
Martinez is more bang for the buck. He can play DM(where I see him playing a lot this season) play as a CB and as a left back. He can play in a 2 and a 3 and can play as a DM as a single pivot and in a double pivot. No brainer here.
This talk of his versatility is just obfuscating the issue, either he is good enough to fill a position of weakness in the first 11 or he isn't. Being able to play multiple positions to a bang average standard isn't what you pay £40+ million for. Why would ETH sign someone to play DM that has played CB the last 2 years under him, that makes no sense and is pure cope from fans to try to justify the signing. He'll be signed to play CB, that's where ETH has used him for the last 2 years.
 

therealtboy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
455
Location
Dubai
Supports
Feyenoord
This talk of his versatility is just obfuscating the issue, either he is good enough to fill a position of weakness in the first 11 or he isn't. Being able to play multiple positions to a bang average standard isn't what you pay £40+ million for. Why would ETH sign someone to play DM that has played CB the last 2 years under him, that makes no sense and is pure cope from fans to try to justify the signing. He'll be signed to play CB, that's where ETH has used him for the last 2 years.
He played a whole season at DM before playing CB and as a CB he is a top one. I have watched with envy as he dominates forwards game after game, his height doesn’t even come into question. Now EPL is no joke and he will be targeted but he will “rise” to the occasion. Man has incredible timing with his leap and I’m 100% sure he’ll fit in alongside any of our CBs.
 

Kxng Ander

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 27, 2022
Messages
13
Look I was all for Timber but this guy is even shorter, we'd really be pushing it. I understand he is very talented but there is a limit to how low we should go in height for a CB and that's 5'10". Hoping this is just noise because if ETH wants a shorter CB because he couldn't get a short one then I am a bit worried about the window.
 

Still ill

Fantasy Football Champ 2018
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
7,348
Location
Ireland
Is the height thing not a bit of a moot point these days, lads? There's hardly a number 9 left in the division, let alone an old fashioned one. Keepers who launch it or wingers who get to the byline before swinging one in to the back post are gone the way of the dodo.
 

Andrew7582

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
588
He played a whole season at DM before playing CB and as a CB he is a top one. I have watched with envy as he dominates forwards game after game, his height doesn’t even come into question. Now EPL is no joke and he will be targeted but he will “rise” to the occasion. Man has incredible timing with his leap and I’m 100% sure he’ll fit in alongside any of our CBs.
Yes and that was already addressed by another poster:

Problem is that the season after that Ten Hag publicly stated that Martinez wasn't good enough for DM(and Tadic wasn't good enough to be a striker:confused:) and proceeded to bench him. So i'm not sure Ten Hag will use him as a DM, unless we can't get anyone else and Martinez comes to United.
I have watched with envy as he dominates forwards game after game, his height doesn’t even come into question. Now EPL is no joke and he will be targeted but he will “rise” to the occasion. Man has incredible timing with his leap and I’m 100% sure he’ll fit in alongside any of our CBs.
It definitely will come into question in the premier league, it's an obvious weakness that will be targeted.
 

Andrew7582

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 29, 2021
Messages
588
Is the height thing not a bit of a moot point these days, lads? There's hardly a number 9 left in the division, let alone an old fashioned one. Keepers who launch it or wingers who get to the byline before swinging one in to the back post are gone the way of the dodo.
No, it's not a moot point, centre backs are tall for a reason, and the reason is height matters. Old school number 9's aren't the only aerial threat.
 

GledTheRed

Full Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
12,800
Location
Twitter thread
Is the height thing not a bit of a moot point these days, lads? There's hardly a number 9 left in the division, let alone an old fashioned one. Keepers who launch it or wingers who get to the byline before swinging one in to the back post are gone the way of the dodo.
The big tall ones are usually donkeys who the little forwards eat for breakfast.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
7,175
Similar to Timber, I could see Ten Hag doing this because we need a left-footed defender who can help us actually keep the ball in,, and he can play either LCB, dead center in a 3 man backline with Maguire/Varane to his right and Shaw to his left, at LCB in a 3 man backline with Maguire and Varane (or Lindelof) to his right, or if Shaw isn't fit, at LB and Dalot just goes forward a lot more on the other side and Sancho has a solid defender behind him.

Basically, Ten Hag is probably looking at the team and thinking he has Cristiano as a 9, Sancho as an LW, Bruno, VDB and Fred as useful #8/10s, Shaw as a left-back, Maguire, Lindelof and Varane as right-sided center halves, Dalot as an attacking RB, De Gea as a keeper and that's about it. Add De Jong, and the next logical gaps are RW (Antony) and a left-sided defender (Lisandro) and that would give him 4 players who've played for him at Ajax and are ready to play his football day 1. That's 13 outfield players for 10 spots forming the core of the team, along with Rashford and then whoever impresses in pre-season.
 

dutchred

Full Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
1,352
This would be a weird one if we target Martinez instead of Pau Torres, they will both cost about the same. Torres is proven in a top league and won't have the height issues that Martinez will have. We need a DOF for things like this, to overrule the manager when he's fixated on a personal choice despite there being more logical options available.
Martinez is more aggressive than Torres and is quite brilliant in the air. Hus distribution is excellent and Ajax have often used him as a DM and he is also quick enough to cover left back. I would love to get him
 

AdNani

Full Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
852
I have a feeling he'll play quite a lot as a DM in his first year if we get him. I dont think he'd be signed to play there long term but with us not really being linked to anyone this year as a holding midfielder, i think he'll play there until we can get someone like Rice next year. With him then being moved back once Maguire. is (possibly) moved on.

ive watched enough highlights to see he's a very capable passer, he's played there for Ten Hag before and him being a good defender would help, looks mobile enough to play there.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
14,908
I have a feeling he'll play quite a lot as a DM in his first year if we get him. I dont think he'd be signed to play there long term but with us not really being linked to anyone this year as a holding midfielder, i think he'll play there until we can get someone like Rice next year. With him then being moved back once Maguire. is (possibly) moved on.

ive watched enough highlights to see he's a very capable passer, he's played there for Ten Hag before and him being a good defender would help, looks mobile enough to play there.
Yeah and nothing wrong with that, like you say it's another year off Rice's contract or scout someone else over next 12 months.
 
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
16,704
Location
Behind the right goal post as "Whiteside shoots!"
This talk of his versatility is just obfuscating the issue, either he is good enough to fill a position of weakness in the first 11 or he isn't. Being able to play multiple positions to a bang average standard isn't what you pay £40+ million for. Why would ETH sign someone to play DM that has played CB the last 2 years under him, that makes no sense and is pure cope from fans to try to justify the signing. He'll be signed to play CB, that's where ETH has used him for the last 2 years.
Who said he’s bang average in defence or as a Def Mid?
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
14,908
So what is the general consensus in here about shorter defenders with technique, can it work in the Premier League?
 

Bojan Djordjic

Full Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
540
This talk of his versatility is just obfuscating the issue, either he is good enough to fill a position of weakness in the first 11 or he isn't. Being able to play multiple positions to a bang average standard isn't what you pay £40+ million for. Why would ETH sign someone to play DM that has played CB the last 2 years under him, that makes no sense and is pure cope from fans to try to justify the signing. He'll be signed to play CB, that's where ETH has used him for the last 2 years.
I'm usually the first one to ask about aerial duel successes won when a defender is under 6ft but Martinez is just such a sensational passer from defence that I'd nearly feel the gamble is worth it, particularly as we've wanted a left footed cb for quite some time. There was a video on here and if it wasn't for some of the worst finishing and control I've ever seen, he could have got ten assists from his passing from deep.

He seemed to handle Haaland pretty well in the Dortmund-Ajax game and looks really combative despite his size. Also, hope I'm reading the statistics correctly but whoscored seems to suggest that Ajax only conceded two set piece goals last season in the league despite Timber, Martinez and Blind all being undersized.
 

BrilliantOrange

Full Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
969
Supports
Ajax Amsterdam
Im reading up on the threads here every day (mulitple times to be honest), but Im getting a bit tired and bored of the discussions which keep repeating itself all over again.. Timber is too small, Martinez is too small, If Frenkie is so good why do Barca let him go, Frenkie is Di Maria, dont go near, Antony has too little production in the Dutch league...

We're at a point where it has no use having these discussions anymore as its a repeating circle now.. We just have to wait and see what happens when they come..