List of GOATs

Himannv

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The Tyson point was more to do with whether bowlers have become faster over the years, if Tyson was comparable in the 50's i'm sure bowlers 10/20 years before were fast too.
Well, Larwood was probably fast and Bradman has a good record against him. Bradman averaged 50+ even during the Bodyline series and I don't think playing pace was ever his problem. I understand leg spin was more of a challenge all things considered.

If there's been a thread where all of this has been covered before I'd be grateful for the link, anyway!
Maybe the cricket thread? I don't know if the history of cricket is discussed as much here. There are cricket forums out there that have discussed this at length.
 

Adam-Utd

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An early death does wonders for a reputation.
As does not knowing what you're talking about.

Senna did things in the car that not many other drivers could do. Especially in the wet when it becomes more about driver control and less about raw grip and power he excelled.

The famous race at Donnington in 93 where he blew away the Williams of Hill and Prost who were clearly the fastest cars is something you rarely see anymore.

While others like Hamilton and Schumacher have come close and obviously eclipsed him in terms of records, many just dont feel the raw talent he had on his day could be surpassed.
 

pacifictheme

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As does not knowing what you're talking about.

Senna did things in the car that not many other drivers could do. Especially in the wet when it becomes more about driver control and less about raw grip and power he excelled.

The famous race at Donnington in 93 where he blew away the Williams of Hill and Prost who were clearly the fastest cars is something you rarely see anymore.

While others like Hamilton and Schumacher have come close and obviously eclipsed him in terms of records, many just dont feel the raw talent he had on his day could be surpassed.
:lol: crowbar.

I think arguments can be made for any of those 3 personally.
 

Cascarino

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Thanks for the replies, all. It's just that with Bradman, I have almost no frame of reference, so his feats leave me with more questions than answers.

Another couple of branch questions I have revolve around whether bowlers (of whatever the modern era is) bowl better (technical) and faster (measurable) than those of Bradman's era?

If there's been a thread where all of this has been covered before I'd be grateful for the link, anyway!

Cheers.
I’d say the bowlers on average would be slower. The physical standard was a lot lower in those days. There’s no accurate recordings of the speed of the bowers he would have faced, but he himself mentioned having faced speeds of 80-85mph. The footage I have seen of him playing certainly looks that on average he’d be facing weaker bowlers than those of today. Though the spinners of his era had wickets that were very much in the bowlers favour.

There’s pros and cons to his era, he played with less protective gear, worse wickets, worse bats, but played against less tactical fielding formations and didn’t have to play a wide variety of teams (Which is a double edged sword, as the batsmen of today will face a fair few weak teams, whereas Bradman predominantly played England). He also played a smaller amount of games compared to the players of today and his career was interrupted by WW2. If he played today (and in this hypothetical scenario had grown up and adapted to the current cricketing world) I imagine his average would be significantly less, but still impressive. It’s a frivolous estimation solely based on my meagre knowledge of Bradman, but I’d say he could average 70-75. I’m basing that on the fact that during his playing career, he posted averages that were basically double that of his peers, no one came close.
 

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I’d say the bowlers on average would be slower. The physical standard was a lot lower in those days. There’s no accurate recordings of the speed of the bowers he would have faced, but he himself mentioned having faced speeds of 80-85mph. The footage I have seen of him playing certainly looks that on average he’d be facing weaker bowlers than those of today. Though the spinners of his era had wickets that were very much in the bowlers favour.

There’s pros and cons to his era, he played with less protective gear, worse wickets, worse bats, but played against less tactical fielding formations and didn’t have to play a wide variety of teams (Which is a double edged sword, as the batsmen of today will face a fair few weak teams, whereas Bradman predominantly played England). He also played a smaller amount of games compared to the players of today and his career was interrupted by WW2. If he played today (and in this hypothetical scenario had grown up and adapted to the current cricketing world) I imagine his average would be significantly less, but still impressive. It’s a frivolous estimation solely based on my meagre knowledge of Bradman, but I’d say he could average 70-75. I’m basing that on the fact that during his playing career, he posted averages that were basically double that of his peers, no one came close.
Cheers for this. Gaining insight is always beneficial! At least I can try and frame his achievements after the posts in here as opposed to reading a generic page of stats that don't mean much to me!
 

Cascarino

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Cheers for this. Gaining insight is always beneficial! At least I can try and frame his achievements after the posts in here as opposed to reading a generic page of stats that don't mean much to me!
No problem, my reasoning is pretty reductive and I’m no expert so take it with a pinch of salt haha.
 

Luke1995

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Football: Messi although I do believe by career end Cristiano Ronaldo will have better numbers.

MMA: GSP right now but by career end, Jon Jones if he handles the weight jump fearlessy and keeps winning.

Boxing: It's between Sugar Ray Robinson and Floyd Mayweather for me. Sugar went undefeated for much longer than Floyd but also was beaten by another men 19 times. If I have to pick, Mayweather has the sexier record but what Robinson did was more impressive and he did it for longer. So, Sugar.

F1: Although I still believe Ayrton Senna to be the most talented driver ever, Lewis Hamilton is almost as talented as him, IMO. He will beat Schumacher's title record soon, so, Lewis.
 

Luke1995

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On athletics: If you take away the drugs from the conversation, 1988 Ben Johnson would have been a match for prime Bolt. If I don't care about drug use in MMA, not sure if I should care about it with running... but still, Bolt.
 

Red Star One

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I guess there's two categories for GOATs of GOATs: team sports and individual sports.
I know nothing about hockey and consider it a bit of a niche sport, but in my eyes numbers Gretzky has seem better than ones of Jordan and Messi. So perhaps him as the GOAT of team sports.
Tennis probably has to be Federer. F1 still stays with Schumacher, but there's every chance Hamilton surpasses him and in my eyes Lewis is already quite on the same level. For me GOAT of individual sports would be either Phelps for longevity, being the most decorated Olympian in history, incredible record or Bolt for his dominance and aura of extraterrestrial ability. Both absolute giants.
 

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Suedesi

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Football: Diego Maradona
Basketball: Michael Jordan
Tennis: Roger Federer / Serena Williams
MMA: Have no clue
Boxing: Muhammad Ali
Handball: Probably me during the lockdown
Hockey: Wayne Gretzky
Am. football : Joe Montana
F1: Niki Lauda or Senna
Athletics: can't lump it all in one, but the most dominant athlete in his field was probably Sergey Bubka
Cycling: Eddie Merckx
Weightlighting: Naim Süleymanoğlu
 

evil_geko

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Football: Diego Maradona
Basketball: Michael Jordan
Tennis: Novak Djokovic

Rest I dunno.
 

okLaptop1

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It's not possible to have an NFL goat, because American Football is just too specialized. If you look at basketball greats, you can clearly see the difference between someone like Tim Duncan and Steph Curry, but those two are still far more comparable than a pairing like Ed Reed and Tom Brady. Like seriously, imagine trying to explain exactly why Aaron Donald is better than Michael Thomas. Their sport is basically made up of 5 sub-sports.

Football: feck it, Cristiano Ronaldo
Rugby: Dan Carter
League: Joey Johns
Basketball: Wilt Chamberlain
 

jem

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Football : Messi
Basketball: Abdul-Jabbar , due to not being overrated due to being the poster boy of Nike and most recently Netflix
Tennis: Nadal . Federer only has style of playing going for him.
Boxing: Ali
Athletics overall Bubka
F1: Lewis Hamilton

GOAT overall extremely difficult to judge. Probably Ali
How can you possibly say Jordan was overrated? I mean, how can you even begin to claim that?