Liverpool 2020-21

Powderfinger

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I think the big trap going forward is convincing themselves that this was all about injuries and that they can be title contenders again with the same team just by staying healthy.

The injuries have been awful but the squad is aging and I just don’t think it can maintain the same intensity, either physically or mentally. If Salah and/or Mane start to drop off, it could get even uglier. And the track record of similar players (mobile wide forwards dependent on dribbling, acceleration, and the ability to create an extra yard at will) in the Premier league after age 29 is pretty awful.

A squad refresh and some new tactical ideas is really necessary. I think the biggest thing they could do is sign an influential 9 or 10 player who could really give them a different dynamic in central spaces.
 

Teja

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I think the big trap going forward is convincing themselves that this was all about injuries and that they can be title contenders again with the same team just by staying healthy.

The injuries have been awful but the squad is aging and I just don’t think it can maintain the same intensity, either physically or mentally. If Salah and/or Mane start to drop off, it could get even uglier. And the track record of similar players (mobile wide forwards dependent on dribbling, acceleration, and the ability to create an extra yard at will) in the Premier league after age 29 is pretty awful.

A squad refresh and some new tactical ideas is really necessary. I think the biggest thing they could do is sign an influential 9 or 10 player who could really give them a different dynamic in central spaces.
This.

Most key players (everyone except TAA, Robertson, Gomez) are 30 next year. VVD has to come back from an ACL tear with the same physicality at 30 which is not a given.

I'm guessing they'll be ok next season, but the year after next is the big test.
 

Giggs' right foot

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I think the big trap going forward is convincing themselves that this was all about injuries and that they can be title contenders again with the same team just by staying healthy.

The injuries have been awful but the squad is aging and I just don’t think it can maintain the same intensity, either physically or mentally. If Salah and/or Mane start to drop off, it could get even uglier. And the track record of similar players (mobile wide forwards dependent on dribbling, acceleration, and the ability to create an extra yard at will) in the Premier league after age 29 is pretty awful.

A squad refresh and some new tactical ideas is really necessary. I think the biggest thing they could do is sign an influential 9 or 10 player who could really give them a different dynamic in central spaces.
I think they're facing a minor squad overhaul not too long down the road. Looking at their attack it's not even that unlikely that in a year or two from now it will only feature Jota - Salah probably will go all out for his last big contract (maybe at PSG who can give him the wages he wants - I struggle to believe Liverpool wants to give him a mad new contract with two years left and being 29 for the next season) - Mané and Firmino are 28 and 29 and have been performing like crap all season (with Firmino never having been on the level of his two wingers) - maybe it's time to cash in and get some new blood in?

You also have van Dijk who's a massive question mark. He will be 30 for the 21/22 season. Such an awful injury at any age - especially when nearing your 30s - can be devastating.

Also to my knowledge, Wijnaldum is free in June this year? - so they might get nothing for him and will have to replace him as well somehow.

Of course, having a fit Fabinho, van Dijk, Gomez (though I don't rate him particularly highly) and Jota is gonna do wonders for them next season, but as you point out, a need for new ideas + a few new additions will be necessary for them to compete with a City-team that looks just as unbeatable as Liverpool did last season, if not more.
 
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acnumber9

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or Mane start to drop off, it could get even uglier.
There are signs that has already begun. Mane has been fairly shit all season. Could be still recovering from Covid though so time will tell.
 

Fluctuation0161

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Liverpool have crumbled! Feel sorry for Klopp and suspect that losing his Mum to covid has messed with his head. The injury stuff is just excuses, all clubs have lost key players over various seasons.

I wonder if he will go back to manage in Germany at the next opportunity to be closer to family.
 

GledTheRed

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I think they're facing a minor squad overhaul not too long down the road. Looking at their attack it's not even that unlikely that in a year or two from now it will only feature Jota - Salah probably will go all out for his last big contract (maybe at PSG who can give him the wages he wants - I struggle to believe Liverpool wants to give him a mad new contract with two years left and being 29 for the next season) - Mané and Firmino are 28 and 29 and have been performing like crap all season (with Firmino never having been on the level of his two wingers) - maybe it's time to cash in and get some new blood in?

You also have van Dijk who's a massive question mark. He will be 30 for the 21/22 season. Such an awful injury at any age - especially when nearing your 30s - can be devastating.

Also to my knowledge, Wijnaldum is free in June this year? - so they might get nothing for him and will have to replace him as well somehow.

Of course, having a fit Fabinho, van Dijk, Gomez (though I don't rate him particularly highly) and Jota is gonna do wonders for them next season, but as you point out, a need for new ideas + a few new additions will be necessary for them to compete with a City-team that looks just as unbeatable as Liverpool did last season, if not more.
Nobody will buy Mane and Salah at their age and for the money Liverpool will seek.

Liverpool will have to suffer their obvious decline due to the absolute hammering they have given them.

In this moment for sure.
 

GledTheRed

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I was worried they'd do another Coutinho, but thanks to rona not even the worst run clubs would give a thought to spending 100m+ on 30yos :drool:

They'll go to Italy for peanuts after running down their contracts!
Aye they aint going anywhere and will be stuck there whinging about how badly they are paid for a good while yet.

The cnuts!
 

lex talionis

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I didn’t know Klopp lost his mom to Covid. My heart goes out to him. I’ve lost relatives in Mexico City and it’s hard to put into words thr loss of family due to this virus.

I’ll have to go to RAWK for a full diagnosis but my sense is that the loss of their colossus, their Alexander the Great, devastated the players’ belief in themselves. But even then, wasn’t VVD on the pitch when Villa thrashed them 7-2? I think so, so I can’t put my finger on the roots of their collapse.
 

ZolaWasMagic

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The sheer desperation in the media to sympathise with them is embarrassing. Every club has injuries, its Liverpool's fault for having poor squad depth
 

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The one thing I don't understand is why when they were/are clearly struggling didn't he just bite the bullet and take his medicine and play Phillips or Williams at the back with Fabinho or together and put Henderson, Fabinho and Thiago in midfield, especially against Burnley, Brighton and WBA I am not sure they needed to sacrifice at least one of the midfielders if not both at centre half against those teams.
Fabinho makes sense, but I don't understand why he keeps playing Henderson in the defence. They'd lost one league game all season before they started playing him in defence (the 7-2 against Villa when he didn't even play). Since starting to play him there they have 5 losses, 1 draw and 2 wins in the 8 games. Now obviously it's not a perfect comparison as the reason he's playing in defence is it's even weaker than it was earlier in the season, but I still feel they'd be better off with him in midfield.
 

Klopper76

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The sheer desperation in the media to sympathise with them is embarrassing. Every club has injuries, its Liverpool's fault for having poor squad depth
Losing three CB’s to ACL injuries is unprecedented tbf. I think the CB injuries have had a domino effect in the rest of the side. Henderson & Fabinho having to play in defence hurts the midfield, which can’t perform the same high energy role it was for the previous two seasons, which hurts the ability of the team to squeeze the opposition. We’re creating less as a result.

We’re constantly having to change CB pairings after having Van Dijk start every league game for two consecutive seasons, and the midfield changes every week as well (I have no idea what our best midfield three is currently).

That being said, we should be beating the likes of Brighton and Burnley at home. That’s where the other issue comes into play for me.

I’m thinking that two consecutive seasons of high energy football and no pre season has led to an eventual burn out physically and mentally. We were fine up until almost halfway then started to crash. That combined with consistent injuries has led to where we’re at now. That’s on Klopp for failing to adapt to the circumstances. Circumstances that other managers have dealt with.

If we don’t end up in the top four this summer will be huge for the club in terms of where we go under Klopp.
 

Carl

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What's the lowest position Premier League champions have ever finished?

Leicester finished 12th and Blackburn finished 7th. Anyone aware of any lower?
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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Was speaking to a Liverpool supporting colleague and he said they had four top CBs at the start of the season, hence why they didn't sign a CB.

After actually looking at who they had, they have ONE top CB in VVD.

His list; VVD, GOMEZ, MATIP, FABINHO.

But when you break that list down you start to see just how obvious it was they needed a CB but instead released one and bought a forward.

Van Dijk is world class and unfortunately got injured. Fair enough.

Matip is always injured and barely plays five games in a row, yet you're classing him as a "top CB". You can't rely on him. My mate agreed strangely.

Gomez. We strongly disagree on this as he believes Gomez is a young VVD. He played 70% of league games last year so appearances aren't bad but ideally higher. But he is young and learning his trade, will have dips in form and will need rotation.

Fabinho. He tried to confirm Fabinho is a fourth top CB. I explained he is actually cover in emergencies and much better in midfield. Same as how Carrick could occasionally play at CB during times of crisis.

So you go into a potential sixty game season with one WC CB, one kid, one crock and a midfielder who can play there from time to time. Your other actual career CB is sold and you take the £10m for him and buy another attacking midfielder.

It's borderline negligence, especially as how people like Henry Winter and such lord about how great the nutrition and data analysts are at Anfield.

They couldn't remember the previous crazy schedule, the next season compacted schedule or forsee the lack of rest?

I then looked at our CB roster in 12/13. We had Rio, Vidic, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Keane and Carrick as emergency cover.

Two world class. Two solid defenders. One crock. One youth product and a midfielder as cover. That's seven options.

Let's say we lost our WC CB in Vidic. Then we lost our crock (Jones) and our solid defender (Evans). We could still play Smalling and Rio or Rio and Keane etc.

TLDR; Liverpool fan claims they had four top CBs at the club at the start of the season, turns out they had three CBs, one WC, one kid, one crock and a midfielder who could cover.

I'm sure this has been discussed much more up the thread.
 

Cast5

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Was speaking to a Liverpool supporting colleague and he said they had four top CBs at the start of the season, hence why they didn't sign a CB.

After actually looking at who they had, they have ONE top CB in VVD.

His list; VVD, GOMEZ, MATIP, FABINHO.

But when you break that list down you start to see just how obvious it was they needed a CB but instead released one and bought a forward.

Van Dijk is world class and unfortunately got injured. Fair enough.

Matip is always injured and barely plays five games in a row, yet you're classing him as a "top CB". You can't rely on him. My mate agreed strangely.

Gomez. We strongly disagree on this as he believes Gomez is a young VVD. He played 70% of league games last year so appearances aren't bad but ideally higher. But he is young and learning his trade, will have dips in form and will need rotation.

Fabinho. He tried to confirm Fabinho is a fourth top CB. I explained he is actually cover in emergencies and much better in midfield. Same as how Carrick could occasionally play at CB during times of crisis.

So you go into a potential sixty game season with one WC CB, one kid, one crock and a midfielder who can play there from time to time. Your other actual career CB is sold and you take the £10m for him and buy another attacking midfielder.

It's borderline negligence, especially as how people like Henry Winter and such lord about how great the nutrition and data analysts are at Anfield.

They couldn't remember the previous crazy schedule, the next season compacted schedule or forsee the lack of rest?

I then looked at our CB roster in 12/13. We had Rio, Vidic, Jones, Smalling, Evans, Keane and Carrick as emergency cover.

Two world class. Two solid defenders. One crock. One youth product and a midfielder as cover. That's seven options.

Let's say we lost our WC CB in Vidic. Then we lost our crock (Jones) and our solid defender (Evans). We could still play Smalling and Rio or Rio and Keane etc.

TLDR; Liverpool fan claims they had four top CBs at the club at the start of the season, turns out they had three CBs, one WC, one kid, one crock and a midfielder who could cover.

I'm sure this has been discussed much more up the thread.
I agree with your post mate but Jones was not a bad player in 12/13. He was a promising player and had some very good games for us, which makes your point more valid actually.
 

cyberman

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The sheer desperation in the media to sympathise with them is embarrassing. Every club has injuries, its Liverpool's fault for having poor squad depth
100 percent this. Its not the worlds fault that they choose fecking Matip as their 3rd choice defender.
Right now it should be 3rd choice plus a reserve CB with Henderson etc in midfield around them, protecting them. Like Bailly and Tuanzebe for us. That bad bit of business has cost them dearly.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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100 percent this. Its not the worlds fault that they choose fecking Matip as their 3rd choice defender.
Right now it should be 3rd choice plus a reserve CB with Henderson etc in midfield around them, protecting them. Like Bailly and Tuanzebe for us. That bad bit of business has cost them dearly.
Absolutely. Ridiculous they let Lovren go.
 

Raredaredevil

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I posted this in the Salah thread in the Newbies. I was saying that everytime Liverpool is in a crisis, they come full on crashing down and get from bad to worse. I never thought they would lose to Everton of all teams at home. They are in serious danger of missing out on even the CL places. How did it all go so badly for them when they still have their main front 3. I know Van Dijk is so important to them but no excuse on why they cannot score goals. Klopp needs to find a way to turn this around fast or their last title win would feel such an anti-climax. I can't believe I am actually feeling sorry for them but them despite being our greatest rival, a part of me as a true football fan feel that they have been a proper team and did it the right way unlike City and PSG.
 
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Dumbstar

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I posted this in the Salah thread in the Newbies. I was saying that everytime Liverpool is in a crisis, they come full on crashing down and get from bad to worse. I never thought they would lose to Everton of all teams at home. They are in serious danger of missing out on even the CL places. How did it all go so badly for them when they still have their main front 3. I know Van Dijk is so important to them but no excuse on why they cannot score goals. Klopp needs to find a way to turn this around fast or their last title win would feel such an anti-climax. I can't believe I am actually feeling sorry for them but them despite being our greatest rival, a part of me as a true football fan feel that they have been a proper team and did it the right way unlike City and PSG.
If you offered me any permutation of selling my soul and my ass to the devil I would have taken it just to lift that league title one more time in my lifetime.

If you offer me league title number 20 followed by relegation the following season I will snap your hand off.

Our league title can never be considered anti climatic! The joy of winning that is indescribable regardless of celebrations or lack thereof.
 

Adisa

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Confidence has been totally drained from this team. There is no excuse why they are this bad. Their press has gone from been by far the best in the league to one of the worst. For a side that depends on the press, that's suicidal. Their midfield is a bigger problem than their defense. They can't close spaces effectively. It was incredible how Brighton and now Everton bypassed their first and second pressing lines. Four passes from you box and you are already facing Alisson.
I think for the rest of the season, Klopp has to bite the bullet and go for a lower block or they will have further to fall.
 
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Shark

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Liverpool are absolutely shite at the moment and I'm loving it but at the time we're not exactly tearing down any trees lately so won't get too ahead of myself in slagging them off. Everyone bar City can potentially be in a dog fight for top four.
 

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Henderson is key to them, and seems quite injury prone doesn't he? Same with most their CBs. The squad needs an overhaul, the timing of the pandemic and the age of so many key players, it's looking like a massive summer for them, and it's going to be a very difficult one. They're not getting big fees for Salah and Mane anymore. Mane looks like a shadow of his former self, Salah is still scoring, but it seems he's wanting out.

I don't see next season being a "return to form" for them without big changes.
 

Counterfactual

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What's the lowest position Premier League champions have ever finished?

Leicester finished 12th and Blackburn finished 7th. Anyone aware of any lower?
Leeds finished the first premier league season in 17th, having started as champions. They were the last Division 1 title holders though, so I guess it doesn't count.

In which case it's Leicester finishing 12th.
 

royboy16

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Losing three CB’s to ACL injuries is unprecedented tbf. I think the CB injuries have had a domino effect in the rest of the side. Henderson & Fabinho having to play in defence hurts the midfield, which can’t perform the same high energy role it was for the previous two seasons, which hurts the ability of the team to squeeze the opposition. We’re creating less as a result.

We’re constantly having to change CB pairings after having Van Dijk start every league game for two consecutive seasons, and the midfield changes every week as well (I have no idea what our best midfield three is currently).

That being said, we should be beating the likes of Brighton and Burnley at home. That’s where the other issue comes into play for me.

I’m thinking that two consecutive seasons of high energy football and no pre season has led to an eventual burn out physically and mentally. We were fine up until almost halfway then started to crash. That combined with consistent injuries has led to where we’re at now. That’s on Klopp for failing to adapt to the circumstances. Circumstances that other managers have dealt with.

If we don’t end up in the top four this summer will be huge for the club in terms of where we go under Klopp.
Maybe ye are on pre season mode now ;)
 

Denis' cuff

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Nobody will buy Mane and Salah at their age and for the money Liverpool will seek.

Liverpool will have to suffer their obvious decline due to the absolute hammering they have given them.

In this moment for sure.
vare good :D
 

Traub

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I think the big trap going forward is convincing themselves that this was all about injuries and that they can be title contenders again with the same team just by staying healthy.

The injuries have been awful but the squad is aging and I just don’t think it can maintain the same intensity, either physically or mentally. If Salah and/or Mane start to drop off, it could get even uglier. And the track record of similar players (mobile wide forwards dependent on dribbling, acceleration, and the ability to create an extra yard at will) in the Premier league after age 29 is pretty awful.

A squad refresh and some new tactical ideas is really necessary. I think the biggest thing they could do is sign an influential 9 or 10 player who could really give them a different dynamic in central spaces.
Haaland would be the perfect signing for them.
 

Chairman Steve

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It feels like they’ve expended everything they had in the tank in the past two seasons and the burnout is now showing. Injuries left and right, teams figuring them out etc.

I had a feeling the shine would start to fade from them this season and by the end of it the stagnation would be clear to see then they’d need to rebuild this summer, but not at this fast rate and this soon.

They need to sell one or maybe two of that front three and promote Jota to a starter... but who has the money at the moment to even meet their valuation of someone like Salah? (let alone want him in their team).
 

Robaldo

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Regarding the 'Worst Premier League Title Defences' post: Liverpool are by far my least favourite team but I find these statistics a bit unfair. There's still a reasonable chance that they can make top four, where Leicester on the other hand were seriously looking like relegation candidates...
 

Zlatan 7

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Regarding the 'Worst Premier League Title Defences' post: Liverpool are by far my least favourite team but I find these statistics a bit unfair. There's still a reasonable chance that they can make top four, where Leicester on the other hand were seriously looking like relegation candidates...
There’s nothing unfair about it, it’s showing it after 25 games and how shit they’re doing at trying to retain it.
 

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An above average team who had two fantastic seasons is what it looks like to me. Of course they could still prove me wrong and win their remaining games and the CL.
Football? Bloody hell!
As some guy once said.
 

Raredaredevil

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5 points off 4th. If Everton and Aston Villa win their games in hand, Liverpool will be overtaken by them and drop to 8th. Initially I thought they were just in a blip and would still challenge for the title earlier. Shows the seriousness of their situation now. Every game for them now is a must win.They are away to Sheffield in the league next and if they don't win that, I think they won't make it for CL next season.
 

Klopper76

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There’s nothing unfair about it, it’s showing it after 25 games and how shit they’re doing at trying to retain it.
But we ended last season on 99 points. Our fall is measured against a freakishly high points tally that has only been bettered once.

Leicester’s points tally was low 80’s in the year they won it. Their drop off was worse. Chelsea’s performance as champions in 15/16 was also atrocious. They were in the bottom five by December iirc.
 

Zlatan 7

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But we ended last season on 99 points. Our fall is measured against a freakishly high points tally that has only been bettered once.

Leicester’s points tally was low 80’s in the year they won it. Their drop off was worse. Chelsea’s performance as champions in 15/16 was also atrocious. They were in the bottom five by December iirc.
Fair point about your high points, I suppose it’s just showing the biggest drop off in performance