It's on Google pages.
Liverpool 2020-21
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Sources listed right above your post kiddo.
Thanks. Is Ole paid more than Klopp?
I don't know tbf. You'd think Klopp is paid more but Ole just signed a new deal so who knows.
They are just speculating.
Till the official account come out nobody knows.
That said Liverpool have a lot more staff and scouts than us due to Glazer cuts over the years so even then it's hard to know if our players earn less or more.
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The funny thing is they all have different teams as 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th... so which one is reliable?
The one that makes United look best of course.
United love throwing money... depends which way you look at it.
The reason liverpool are struggling to tie some of the deals is they are reluctant to pay the wages for players who deserve it and United would compete with any club on wages.
As a fan, I want to see the best players at the club.. obviously not to an extent where we are paying them all 300k plus.
Liverpool's top earners are around the 200k mark from what I remember.
Certainly nowhere near 350k.
And any team that wins the league will always have a proportionally higher wage bill.
But that's obvious.
When it comes down to it if United are serious about a player Liverpool could not compete.
Certainly nowhere near 350k.
And any team that wins the league will always have a proportionally higher wage bill.
But that's obvious.
When it comes down to it if United are serious about a player Liverpool could not compete.
Cheers. Now that I see the list, I realize that I actually did read about most of that.
It's been pointed out to me very kindly by @RobinLFC that our loveable Scousers can't post in the United forums and I've tagged a few of you in a thread.
So what I was asking is what's the opinion on Ethan Ennis who we have just snapped up from your academy? Was interested to know.
So what I was asking is what's the opinion on Ethan Ennis who we have just snapped up from your academy? Was interested to know.
I have honestly never heard of him until now. I heard about Bobby Duncan thinking he was the next big shot and ended up in some shit hole now.
Kaide Gordon I've seen in preseason, looks ok. But Ennis, nope. I think people should really beware buying Liverpool youth.
They need some new players.. Not because their current ones arent good enough, but mainly because you sometimes need a breath of fresh air, people required to fight for their spot again, break the status quo..
A real talented competitive winger (like Antony, Kingsley, Doku, Chiesa, Barnes) or another deep striker, a midfielder with depth and/or creativity (type Donny (but not Donny) or type Maddison), another right back to compete with Trent and perhaps open the possibillity to move Trent up to midfield. Another ball playing Central defender who moves into midfiels which perhaps would allow them to play with a back 3..
Not sure what, but they need sómething to make them tick differently.. Both internally in terms of competition as in the way they play so they become less predictable for opponents..
A real talented competitive winger (like Antony, Kingsley, Doku, Chiesa, Barnes) or another deep striker, a midfielder with depth and/or creativity (type Donny (but not Donny) or type Maddison), another right back to compete with Trent and perhaps open the possibillity to move Trent up to midfield. Another ball playing Central defender who moves into midfiels which perhaps would allow them to play with a back 3..
Not sure what, but they need sómething to make them tick differently.. Both internally in terms of competition as in the way they play so they become less predictable for opponents..
I mean, it's early days, but this will probably win the post of the year award.
Congratulations.
Swiss Ramble are noticeably absent from a lot of these lists which is curious since they're by far the best regarded for football financials.
Liverpool's wages are obviously going to be higher for the next few seasons due to the performance related bonuses linked to them winning the PL and CL. We won't know the 2020/2021 figures until late next season so it's fairly pointless to debate who's paying more for the upcoming season. If we really want to point score, which doesn't feel as fun given their success, their wages to revenue turnover is always higher than ours.
Liverpool's wages are obviously going to be higher for the next few seasons due to the performance related bonuses linked to them winning the PL and CL. We won't know the 2020/2021 figures until late next season so it's fairly pointless to debate who's paying more for the upcoming season. If we really want to point score, which doesn't feel as fun given their success, their wages to revenue turnover is always higher than ours.
Know nothing about him other than he has a great name.
Easy start to the season for them and Kloop no doubt hammering them in training for more relentless pressing. salah and mane first summer off for years. All their players back.
They‘re gonna be really annoying again this season.
They‘re gonna be really annoying again this season.
Our wage structure is heavily incentivised. So when we're successful, we evidently pay more to get our players than you do. Wouldn't surprise me if it was a tad lower than yours for the previous season.
Klopp is on £15m a year and Ole (pre new contract) was on £10m so I'd assume they're reasonably close now, although he might not have got a pay increase in fairness and just extended. That's all from a quick Google so might be wrong!
They love the moral high ground. Even if they have to build it themselves before they can stand on it.
Some might look at tis and think that Klopp has done really well, but I don't think it's sustainable for him to keep us competitive against the financial power of the other clubs around us.
He's spent but there's a lot of pressure on big signings to work out for Klopp. If Pep gets a 50 million signing wrong there's always a bit more to spend a year later on another player in the same position.
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He's spent but there's a lot of pressure on big signings to work out for Klopp. If Pep gets a 50 million signing wrong there's always a bit more to spend a year later on another player in the same position.
This highlights my main issue with net spend that I don't believe I've seen addressed anywhere. Assets that are acquired outside of the period in question are considered free, and it gives credit to the manager for transfer negotiations he has no control over. This tweet and your post make it look like Klopp is working miracles with a substantially lower value squad, however he has spent over 500 million. Let's look at why his net spend is so low
These are some of the most high profile sales, Coutinho - 142, Sakho - 26, Benteke - 27, Allen - 13, Ings - 18. That's over 200 million, but none of them were signed by Klopp. A lot of United fans praise Ole for getting rid of deadwood, so Klopp should get the credit for moving them on too, but it means he already had that value in his squad.
This is without getting into youth sales like Solanke, Brewster, Ibe , Wilson .I'm not as aware of Liverpool activities, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Klopp can be credited with much of their development. Again, it gets credited to Klopp's net spend.
As an aside, it's crazy that the least amount Liverpool got for any of the players listed above is Wilson at 12m, yet we are struggling to get 2m from Southampton, and aren't even confident of getting 15m for Lingard. Crazy!
All my numbers are from here: Jurgen Klopp's LFC transfers - list of Liverpool players bought and sold by Klopp (anfield-online.co.uk)
What? Klopp is part of LFC just as Pep is part of Abu Dhabi FC. All values and assets are the club's. Why are you treating gross and net worth as part of manager's individual wealth?
So what if Coutinho was already at the club? We really didn't want to sell him but because we did we made a huge loss on a world class player (as determined by his 140m valuation at the time). Klopp had to individually bear the agony of that huge loss too but you neglect to mention that. Just because we got VvD etc doesn't change the huge loss we had to incur first.
What huge loss did Pep have to incur before signing a billion worth of players? Aguero? KdB? David Silva? Can't think of anyone. City is an engine where you keep pouring the oil in and get black clouds hanging over them.
What huge loss has Ole had to incur that forced him to drastically alter his style of play?
I don't care enough about net spend arguments to get involved in that aspect, but concluding that you "made a huge loss" on a player that you signed for £8.5 million and sold for over £100 million, at the time the second highest fee ever received player, after five seasons of service, is some phenomenal mental gymnastics.
The fact that he's not proven to be remotely worth that fee since makes it even more mental that you consider it making "a huge loss". You should have been laughing all the way to the bank after pulling that one off.
@babablue
Klopp doesn't move assets. He doesn't have the final say in transfer matters. He wanted Brandt, but was given Salah; he wanted to keep Gini, etc.
At Liverpool the old transfer committee still exists, with a modification (or rather a substantial improvement). Michael Edwards and his team identify targets, and Klopp is one of the people who may provide inputs about potential targets. But the final call is not taken by him.
I think Klopp has made peace with the setup. He sees himself as a coach. My only worry is that for how long he may be okay with that.
@Dumbstar
While I agree with most of your post, I doubt whether Klopp was bothered about losing Coutinho. If anything, it allowed him to implement his ideas more effectively.
Klopp doesn't move assets. He doesn't have the final say in transfer matters. He wanted Brandt, but was given Salah; he wanted to keep Gini, etc.
At Liverpool the old transfer committee still exists, with a modification (or rather a substantial improvement). Michael Edwards and his team identify targets, and Klopp is one of the people who may provide inputs about potential targets. But the final call is not taken by him.
I think Klopp has made peace with the setup. He sees himself as a coach. My only worry is that for how long he may be okay with that.
@Dumbstar
While I agree with most of your post, I doubt whether Klopp was bothered about losing Coutinho. If anything, it allowed him to implement his ideas more effectively.
I assume Dumbstar means a huge loss to the quality of the side. Which is true; it gets spoken about now as if Coutinho was always mediocre at best and we were somehow gifted £140million out of nowhere, but he was our consensus best player at the time we sold him. He was scoring 1 in 2 from midfield, having every bit the influence on our attack that Bruno has on United's, without taking penalties. Have a look at the thread on here, the overwhelming opinion is him leaving is a massive step backwards for the team.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/philippe-coutinho-confirmed.435055/
So in that sense, although I agree that Klopp's netspend isn't entirely accurate when you have to take into account Coutinho, he works on a different level entirely to United, City and, to a lesser extent, Chelsea. The only time we've had a big summer comparable to those clubs is when we lost what was considered to be a world class player to fund it. Which puts his achievements in perspective. I refuse to believe there's another manager in world football who could have made Liverpool as competitive as Klopp has with the level of backing he's had. We're not paupers, but Klopp doesn't have the budget of a team that expects to compete for league titles and European cups.
No he wasn't. Not even nearly. Or are you refering just to his last half season?
In reality, Coutinho's overall contribution wasn't that particularly great, he just scored a worldie from outside the box every 3 or 4 weeks. And Bruno has been far more influential for this Utd team than Coutinho was for Liverpool.
He was a good performer then, far better than he's been since, but he was severely overrated.
My fault, I meant to phrase it that Coutinho has a comparable influence outside of the penalty goals.
In his last half a season before we sold him, he'd scored 12 goals and provided 8 assists in 20 games. He had just turned 24 and had a solid year and a half of consistent form, including being our top scorer and assister in a season we reached the Champions League, the year prior. He was close to, if not, world class (the second best attacker on that Brazil team after Neymar, who he arguably outperformed in the 2018 world cup).
Just look at the opinion on the caf at the time: which was that we were losing a key player and we'd already wasted half of it on Van Djik.
Net spend is pointless, especially when you sold a shit player for an insane price. Let's look at what he's spent.
Net spend is only useful for the Director of the Finance department's Christmas speech.
'He' also bought loads of already very good players for next to nothing, which is great for the Scouting and Negotiation departments' speeches, but let's not pretend he hasn't bought an entire new team.
Misleading given how much Liverpool have sold players for. And the club not Klopp deserves credit for that one. The last bit about being able replace one 50 million signing with another, only City can do that
Hindsight is a marvelous thing. But when it wasn't hindsight Liverpool fans were seething with Coutinho's behaviour to force an exit because we didn't want to lose him. And Utd fans were writing volumes on here about how our style revolves around him and how we are basically fecked. The money we'd get would be pissed up the wall with more Balotelli and Benteke like signings.
100% guaranteed our gross spend would have been reduced by 100m at least if Coutinho had stayed (and gone on to prove he was vastly overrated after all). City and Utd's gross spend wouldn't have changed in the same time though.
I'm not on about perception at the time though, and even then, the general consensus since has been that his departure actually freed up Salah, Mane and Firmino to reach the heights they did as an attacking unit.
When you start talking about gross and net worth, then refer to a player being sold as making a huge loss, it seems pretty evident that he's talking money.
The reality of the situation is that you were very fortunate in being able to sell a relatively young player going through a purple patch for a massively inflated fee.
As I said, I don't care too much about net spend discussions, and firmly believe that after a point, fees don't really matter in terms of what you should realistically expect from a player. Liverpool have spent a lot on their squad. Not as much as other sides, but you can hardly claim poverty when you've got a defender and a goalkeeper that were both signed for record breaking fees, and a good couple of hundred million in investment elsewhere in the squad.
Shoudn't have injected myself here, sorry, as I don't mean to deny that a sale of a quality player like Coutinho has to taken into account in any spending discussion.
It's just, I firmly believe the Liverpool team had already outgrown any reliance on Coutinho at the moment he was sold, and you already then were a better team without him. The sale was actually a strategic plus, and I think Klopp knew it.
He is (or used to be then) a fantastic dribbler and scored great goals from outside the box at the end of some of those dribbles. But these are mainly individual actions and highlights.
It's great to have a player capable of individual actions, of course, but still as a team player, as one that is supposed to be a playmaker, he doesn't offer enough, especially his passing is actually horrendously bad. And his dribbling got into trouble the moment he played in leagues with more midfield pressure than the PL.
Do no over look the fact Klopp does not need to spend as much as the other clubs in and around him. He and the recruiting team have built the team very well with smart recruiting over the last 3 seasons. Thus the need for expensive recruiting continues to be less than that of the rivals
Yeah this is a fair perspective. The only thing I can add is that there's an argument that some of those players (Allen and Coutinho for example) might've been worth more due to Klopp improving them on the pitch somewhat.
Harsh on Coutinho. His final 6 months with us were his best football yet. He was a very good player when he left, then Barcelona turned him into a crap player.
I don't think Klopp would be able to go out and buy a replacement if signings like Van Dijk & Alisson had flopped. He'd have to stick with them and make them work. It's why we're still persisting with Naby Keita (he's already getting the pre-season hype before he breaks down with injuries again).
That is why good recruitment has been crucial. Save for last summer when not adding cb was a critical mistake + Naby Keita aside. Your recent signings haven't really been duds and last season was just a blip of form
Can we talk about normal stuff instead of descending into you pay more than us etc? It’s a bit childish
besides city are seemingly about to drop 200m on 2 players so who cares? We all have to find a way to stop them
besides city are seemingly about to drop 200m on 2 players so who cares? We all have to find a way to stop them
Klopp was the one who advocated for Edwards to be made sporting director. This is basically the setup he asked for.
They haven't? Who from the last 2 seasons has been a success? Jota, and...? Thiago, Tsimikas, Ben Davies and Minamino can't really be called successes
Fair enough.
Imho
Jota IS good. His injury robbed you big time
Tsimikas is good too. Just needed to settle, you'll see.
Don't be deceived by last year. Thiago was hurt the most by your cbs being out and your first choice midfielders having to move to defence to compensate. This season normal service should resume with him.
Davies was never used so he can't honestly be judged.
I'd agree minamino started off worryingly. But I'd not be surprised if he just need time to get used to the league. Which I imagine he has got at Southampton. So he will probably be better this season.
Of them all I believe Elliiot the kid is a true gem