Liverpool 2021/2022

Klopper76

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Apparently all 20 clubs have been told they have to play their FA Cup ties on the weekend. Different governing body to the Carabao Cup so different rules.
 

Liver_bird

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Apparently all 20 clubs have been told they have to play their FA Cup ties on the weekend. Different governing body to the Carabao Cup so different rules.
Don’t let facts get in the way of moral outrage
 

Zaphod2319

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Are you deliberately or accidentally ignoring all the arguments other than your one single point here? Just curious.
If they were able to play against us. Not able to play against Arsenal today, and then able to play in the FA a few days later, it sounds very much of a club using Covid to manipulate its schedule of games much more than an inability of being able to play. It does seem that some teams get a pass that other teams were denied when they asked for a postponement.
 

Klopper76

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If they were able to play against us. Not able to play against Arsenal today, and then able to play in the FA a few days later, it sounds very much of a club using Covid to manipulate its schedule of games much more than an inability of being able to play. It does seem that some teams get a pass that other teams were denied when they asked for a postponement.
It's really simple to understand.

- Against Chelsea we only had three COVID cases (Alisson, Firmino and Matip) plus a few injuries.
- After playing Chelsea (Tuesday of this week) we picked up more possible positives (a lot more, including Pep Ljinders who was in charge for the Chelsea game). We weren't able to train (and still can't) and the EFL (who oversee the Carabao Cup) offer clubs the opportunity (from round 5 onwards) to request postponement due to Covid for any club. Liverpool requested this and the EFL accepted, so the Arsenal game was postponed. Arsenal now have the home leg as the second one which is arguably a bigger advantage.
- The FA have told all 20 clubs that they have to play their FA Cup ties this weekend (the FA oversee the FA Cup, not the EFL) regardless of Covid situations. There are no options to postpone.

That's it. That's the situation. Very simple.
 

Scaring Europe to Death

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I think that we'll likely play our FA Cup game as well but I'm fairly certain that's to do with EFL restrictions around players you can use in the Carabao Cup vs who you can use in the FA Cup.

I was wondering how long it would take for City to have an outbreak. They'd done well to dodge it for now.
Plenty of City personnel suffered over the last year mate, and both Gundogen and De Bruyne actually got it quite bad. Also, don't forget that our game at Everton last season was originally postponed due to COVID.
 

Klopper76

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Plenty of City personnel suffered over the last year mate, and both Gundogen and De Bruyne actually got it quite bad. Also, don't forget that our game at Everton last season was originally postponed due to COVID.
That would possibly explain why you've been able to avoid it more this season then. Some immunity there? Thiago's had it twice whilst at Liverpool.
 
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njred

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So your team is able to play a match. Amazing.
You’re really obsessed over this. It’s obvious you want to prolong the thread to pick up brownie points. Give it a rest.
 

Zaphod2319

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You’re really obsessed over this. It’s obvious you want to prolong the thread to pick up brownie points. Give it a rest.
I am not obsessed, it is interesting that the club is not healthy enough to play today against Arsenal, but the club will field a team against Shrewsbury. I would say this Covid emergency was as bad as it has been made out to be if the Shrewsbury game was forfeited. It comes across as we are healthy enough to beat Shrewsbury, but it would be to our advantage to not play Arsenal right now.

Not really sure what brownie points I have to gain?
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
I am not obsessed, it is interesting that the club is not healthy enough to play today against Arsenal, but the club will field a team against Shrewsbury. I would say this Covid emergency was as bad as it has been made out to be if the Shrewsbury game was forfeited. It comes across as we are healthy enough to beat Shrewsbury, but it would be to our advantage to not play Arsenal right now.

Not really sure what brownie points I have to gain?
Different competitions so different rules? Or else it's a conspiracy for the convenience of Liverpool?
 

Zaphod2319

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Different competitions so different rules? Or else it's a conspiracy for the convenience of Liverpool?
I don’t want to go conspiracy, it is just very convenient for a large club that definitely could field a team to get a break in a really congested schedule. I think the rescheduled EFL game is at the end of January which should make it fair that they will not get back Salah and Mane who would have missed the game today.
 

Speedy30

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I don’t want to go conspiracy, it is just very convenient for a large club that definitely could field a team to get a break in a really congested schedule. I think the rescheduled EFL game is at the end of January which should make it fair that they will not get back Salah and Mane who would have missed the game today.
The Premier League and the Carabao Cup requests squad lists from the participating club. Clubs can only select players from that list. The FA Cup doesn't require squad lists, so any player registered with the club can play. Clearly we have enough players at the club to fulfill the FA Cup match (even if we have to field an under 19 team), whereas missing players from the named Premier League and Carabao Cup list as we are, means we can't field a team.
 

Powderfinger

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The Premier League and the Carabao Cup requests squad lists from the participating club. Clubs can only select players from that list. The FA Cup doesn't require squad lists, so any player registered with the club can play. Clearly we have enough players at the club to fulfill the FA Cup match (even if we have to field an under 19 team), whereas missing players from the named Premier League and Carabao Cup list as we are, means we can't field a team.
Not quite true.

The PL requests two squad lists, one the 25 man A list that people are accustomed to seeing, and then also a list of U21 players that are also eligible. Between the two of them, I count no less than 80 Liverpool players. The Carabao Cup rule is that anybody eligible for the PL is also eligible for their competition.

The rules for cancellation are murkier but the main guideline for the League Cup seems to be having 14 players available, including a GK, and with some nod to the idea that those players will be considered as reasonable for selection if they have started one first team match this year or last in any competition (so it wouldn't be 14 from those 80, but rather 14 from the smaller pool of guys who have started a match for Liverpool in any competition this year or last). But then they also say they reserve the right to make decisions on a case-by-case basis, so who knows.
 

Powderfinger

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So the training center is fully open again after only two days and Liverpool still have not stated the number of first team players, if any, that actually tested positive this week.
 

RobinLFC

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So the training center is fully open again after only two days and Liverpool still have not stated the number of first team players, if any, that actually tested positive this week.
Seems standard procedure to me. Close after an outbreak, isolate players, test all high-risk contacts the next few days, open up again for those who are negative / recently recovered.

What exactly did you expect, that it would remain closed for a few weeks or?
 

Powderfinger

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Seems standard procedure to me. Close after an outbreak, isolate players, test all high-risk contacts the next few days, open up again for those who are negative / recently recovered.

What exactly did you expect, that it would remain closed for a few weeks or?
I don't have any kind of expectation. United's was closed for four days, Spurs I believe for three days, but two days seems reasonable.

The bigger issue for me is that Liverpool have been completely silent about the number of first team players that actually tested positive. If there was indeed a significant outbreak in the squad with lots of players with Covid, of course rescheduling a match is completely legitimate. But most clubs actually say the number of positive tests and even the identity of the players. Arsenal has always said who had Covid within a few days of a positive test. When Chelsea had an outbreak and sought a postponement, they announced that they had four first team players positive, gave their names, and subsequently announced that they had three more. When Spurs had the first outbreak of this wave, they quickly noted that they had eight players with Covid in the first team setup.

Maybe we will find out tomorrow that there were a lot of Liverpool first team players who did test positive this week. In that case, again, I have no problem at all with the postponement. But I don't like that we have to simply take the club's word for it, while other clubs are much more transparent.
 

RobinLFC

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I don't have any kind of expectation. United's was closed for four days, Spurs I believe for three days, but two days seems reasonable.

The bigger issue for me is that Liverpool have been completely silent about the number of first team players that actually tested positive. If there was indeed a significant outbreak in the squad with lots of players with Covid, of course rescheduling a match is completely legitimate. But most clubs actually say the number of positive tests and even the identity of the players. Arsenal has always said who had Covid within a few days of a positive test. When Chelsea had an outbreak and sought a postponement, they announced that they had four first team players positive, gave their names, and subsequently announced that they had three more. When Spurs had the first outbreak of this wave, they quickly noted that they had eight players with Covid in the first team setup.

Maybe we will find out tomorrow that there were a lot of Liverpool first team players who did test positive this week. In that case, again, I have no problem at all with the postponement. But I don't like that we have to simply take the club's word for it, while other clubs are much more transparent.
Fair enough, personally I don't feel like they're obliged to tell us fans anything about who did or didn't test positive (player's medical records are a privacy matter), but I'd assume they would have had to disclose their names and positive tests to the authorities in order for them to make a decision about the postponement. Latest I've read was that on Wednesday, additional to the positive tests on Monday and Tuesday (who were disclosed if I'm not mistaken) there were new positive tests. Maybe the Shrewsbury team sheet will give us an indication, not sure.
 

Powderfinger

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Fair enough, personally I don't feel like they're obliged to tell us fans anything about who did or didn't test positive (player's medical records are a privacy matter), but I'd assume they would have had to disclose their names and positive tests to the authorities in order for them to make a decision about the postponement. Latest I've read was that on Wednesday, additional to the positive tests on Monday and Tuesday (who were disclosed if I'm not mistaken) there were new positive tests. Maybe the Shrewsbury team sheet will give us an indication, not sure.
Yeah, I think its a tricky situation. They definitely shouldn't disclose the names of players without their consent. But most clubs have disclosed the number of positive tests and sometimes the names (one assumes with consent).

I'm perfectly willing to admit that there may be a ton of positives , it will come out eventually, and these complaints about transparency will look a little silly in a few days.

Ultimately, the root problem lies with the footballing authorities who didn't establish any kind of clear criteria for when postponements are actually granted, which creates the possibility of clubs manipulating these situations in their favor and leaves supporters never really knowing whether that is happening or not.
 

Nish115

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Klopp said they got multiple false positives and TAA is the only one with covid.

Right.. so a false positive is 1/1000 odds. And they got multiple?

Okay..
 

Zaphod2319

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Shutdown the training facilities we have Arsenal on a few days rest with three players off to AFCON!!
 

Hansi Fick

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Klopp said they got multiple false positives and TAA is the only one with covid.

Right.. so a false positive is 1/1000 odds. And they got multiple?

Okay..
Not sure which sort of tests we are refering to but I assume antibody tests and the chance of a false positive there certainly isn't 1/1000, more like 1/10 or 1/15
 

Hansi Fick

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Why would they be doing serology tests for an active outbreak?
The talk of "false positives" usually means they are doing antigen tests and then in case of a positive result a PCR test to confirm, if that is negative the antigen test was a "false positive". Or am I wrong there.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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The talk of "false positives" usually means they are doing antigen tests and then in case of a positive result a PCR test to confirm, if that is negative the antigen test was a "false positive". Or am I wrong there.
Ah I see what you mean - usually an "antibody test" would refer to a serology test, which is looking within the subject's blood for COVID antibodies - those are notoriously unreliable.

What I believe you're referring to are the lateral flow tests, which is an immunoassay. You are correct that the false positive rate for the rapid tests is higher than PCR, but it's actually far lower than you'd think. The problem with these rapid tests has been one of sensitivity (i.e. false negatives) rather than specificity (i.e. false positives). There is some variance with regard to brand, but the false positive rate is about 1 in 100 for rapid tests.
 

Hansi Fick

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Ah I see what you mean - usually an "antibody test" would refer to a serology test, which is looking within the subject's blood for COVID antibodies - those are notoriously unreliable.

What I believe you're referring to are the lateral flow tests, which is an immunoassay. You are correct that the false positive rate for the rapid tests is higher than PCR, but it's actually far lower than you'd think. The problem with these rapid tests has been one of sensitivity (i.e. false negatives) rather than specificity (i.e. false positives). There is some variance with regard to brand, but the false positive rate is about 1 in 100 for rapid tests.
Right, rapid tests. I guess there are different methods in use and I obviously am not an expert nor do I know which ones are in use in PL or at Liverpool.
But I thought I'd always read that most rapid tests err on the side of sensitivity rather than specificity but I might be wrong there. Anyway it's not 1/1000 as the poster claimed to which I anwered.
 

Zaphod2319

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Before postponing a match that is clearly helping Liverpool, shouldn’t a covid outbreak be confirmed?
 

ultratt5

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How does it help liverpool? They lost the home advantage and Salah etc still in African cup
 

Klopper76

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Before postponing a match that is clearly helping Liverpool, shouldn’t a covid outbreak be confirmed?
How is it helping us? The away leg is second now and we still won’t have Salah or Mane available for either game.

Do you apply the same logic to Leeds postponing their Boxing Day game with us? They had injuries as well as Covid so postponing was beneficial to them at the time.
 

Zaphod2319

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How is it helping us? The away leg is second now and we still won’t have Salah or Mane available for either game.

Do you apply the same logic to Leeds postponing their Boxing Day game with us? They had injuries as well as Covid so postponing was beneficial to them at the time.
You had three matches in a week. Once the magical outbreak happened you had quite a few days between matches.
 

Klopper76

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You had three matches in a week. Once the magical outbreak happened you had quite a few days between matches.
We’ve had that every week for ages. :lol:

We still have it when we play the rearranged tie.
 

njred

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You had three matches in a week. Once the magical outbreak happened you had quite a few days between matches.
He's back for more points. I've never seen a no united supporter so interested in Liverpool. Good job being the LFC covid monitor. It seems to be your calling.