Liverpool are the worst defending champions in Premier League history

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I'm pretty sure we had a back four of
Fletcher-Carrick-Evra-buttner for a fair few games seem to remember Bobby zamora terrorising it in a 3-0 defeat to Fulham.

Liverpool have had V.V.D and Gomez out most of the season fair enough but how do you go into a season especially this season with only 3 senior centre backs 2 of which are made of glass anyway? Dreadful management.
It was De Laet. Buttner didn’t join til 2012. That mad injury crisis was in 2010.
 

DoubleDinhos

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One of the weirdest myths I've seen develop this season is that Ferguson had Carrick in defence for a whole chunk of the season. Carrick never played more than two league games in central defence in a season under Ferguson. By contrast Henderson has had to play ten and Fabinho even more than that. And they've also both missed two months combined.
 

calodo2003

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I couldn't remember what year that was now I do, Carrick I think played a few games at CB if memory serves me.
I also remember him filling in as such. Can’t remember another match when Fletcher did, though.
 

The Neville wears Prada

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The best part is that Liverpool fans never even got the chance to celebrate at all... Not in the stands, not even in pubs and not even really at home with all the restrictions. The fact they won it last year is almost a comedic moment for all other fans therefore.

I have always thought Liverpool were grossly overrated. Last year they were fairly compact and average looking. Yes they won a lot and were therefore efficient, but they were lucky so many times. Their form has been horrendous for almost a full year now, that is what people are forgetting. This slump is nothing to do with key players being out at all. They are a hugely fragile and overrated squad.

Honestly, which Liverpool players would United fans want in our team. I can't think of many at all in honesty...
 

Robertd0803

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Which we only lost because of a bullshit free kick at Stamford Bridge, never mind Drogba being 3 miles offside at Old Trafford.
I'd have loved to see the Caf's response to seeing that line-up :lol::lol:
I laughed out of horror and expected the worse. Owen then scored a hat trick if I remember. We then played either Newcastle or Fulham in the league at the weekend with the same line up at the back and got battered.
 

big rons sovereign

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They've had to stop overloading the caffeine and asthma medication and now they can't run around like blue arsed flies anymore.
 

mariachi-19

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The best part is that Liverpool fans never even got the chance to celebrate at all... Not in the stands, not even in pubs and not even really at home with all the restrictions. The fact they won it last year is almost a comedic moment for all other fans therefore.

I have always thought Liverpool were grossly overrated. Last year they were fairly compact and average looking. Yes they won a lot and were therefore efficient, but they were lucky so many times. Their form has been horrendous for almost a full year now, that is what people are forgetting. This slump is nothing to do with key players being out at all. They are a hugely fragile and overrated squad.

Honestly, which Liverpool players would United fans want in our team. I can't think of many at all in honesty...
Mate, Sane, VVD, Salah and Allison would walk into United’s team.
 

The Neville wears Prada

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Mate, Sane, VVD, Salah and Allison would walk into United’s team.
I disagree... out of those only VVD and maybe Mane (debateable), maybe Alisson (not convinced about him either). I think I would only take VVD from their current team....

Also Sane doesn't play for Liverpool? And never has.... Not sure I trust your judgement here!
 

Robbie Boy

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Quite a-few predicted their cycle would end last season, but they ended up running away with the league. To be fair, they didn't look the same free flowing side they looked in the 17/18 and 18/19 seasons. They were ridiculously good during those two seasons and their football was just crazy. They played with this high tempo for 90 minutes every single game and had opponents floored within 20 minutes a-lot of the time.

It all feels like the Dortmund scenario all over again in that Klopp ran his players into the ground for years and they eventually ran out of steam. Liverpool have some key players either entering or quite near their 30's so it'll be interesting to see what happens. It's realistically Salah's last summer to get a big move and Wijnaldum looks all but gone. Milner has also been a good servant and he'll be gone too. Thiago has been awful but may turn it around. Jones looks ok, but again he's not really top class, yet anyway. It's clear Klopp elevated a-lot of players to play well beyond their level but plenty of those have now fallen off a cliff, form wise. Firmino is also becoming a problem too, he's wasting so many good chances and his all-round game isn't what it was.

They have had some bad luck but it's been overstated and it's now well a truly a conspiracy theory mentality they have adopted.
 

Lay

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Weren't Blackburn very poor champions? Can anyone remember?
Think they finished 7th or 8th. Finished bottom of their UCL group too with their players fighting each other against Rosenberg.
 

Giggs86

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There are three kinds of champions in the PL era:
Blackburn, Leicester, Liverpool - one hit wonders. Couldn't defend their title.
Arsenal*, Chelsea, City - true champions can defend their title. Even though Arsenal never won it back to back they were our main rivals during the 97-04 period.
United - twice back to back winners, twice three in a row winners. No one else comes close, not Wenger's invincibles, not Mourinho's Chelsea and not Pep's City.
 

Precaution

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Pretty sure the Premier League era started before the 2000's (Football did start before 1992 n all) but Blackburn were truly the worst Champions of the Premier League, Dalglish left to go upstairs and Ray Harford oversaw a crap Champions League campaign that saw them go out in the first stage (bottom finish) that consisted of Spartak Moscow/Rosenberg/Legia Warsaw hardly big titans even in that era, Shearer proceeded to leave for Newcastle and they ended up crap till their eventual relegation with ol Brian Kidd.

Still Liverlol.
 

Salt Bailly

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Almost makes you wish the Scouse rabble were still around just to see the reaction to their pathetic fall from grace.
 

Green_Red

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Greatest Premier League side of all time I was told by deluded gobshites in the media and from Liverpool fans
Remember when Carragher tried to do a Liverpool 2020 vs Man Utd 1999 team selection? Some Liverpool players even managed to get into his team! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

amolbhatia50k

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There are three kinds of champions in the PL era:
Blackburn, Leicester, Liverpool - one hit wonders. Couldn't defend their title.
Arsenal*, Chelsea, City - true champions can defend their title. Even though Arsenal never won it back to back they were our main rivals during the 97-04 period.
United - twice back to back winners, twice three in a row winners. No one else comes close, not Wenger's invincibles, not Mourinho's Chelsea and not Pep's City.
Agree. But I think it's high time we stop City's dominance now. It'll be three titles in 4 years for them, and 5 in the last decade. While we all prefer them winning the league over Liverpool, their regularity of titles is getting annoying.
 

iHicksy

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The best part is that Liverpool fans never even got the chance to celebrate at all... Not in the stands, not even in pubs and not even really at home with all the restrictions. The fact they won it last year is almost a comedic moment for all other fans therefore.

I have always thought Liverpool were grossly overrated. Last year they were fairly compact and average looking. Yes they won a lot and were therefore efficient, but they were lucky so many times. Their form has been horrendous for almost a full year now, that is what people are forgetting. This slump is nothing to do with key players being out at all. They are a hugely fragile and overrated squad.

Honestly, which Liverpool players would United fans want in our team. I can't think of many at all in honesty...
Come on man I'm all for laughing at Liverpool but this kind of re-writing of history and blind false criticism for criticism's sake isn't warranted. They definitely didn't look great at the end of the season but for most of it and the season before they did play some great football through the front three and wing backs. Some of their attacking patterns and play were absolutely breathtaking. They won the CL and then the PL at a canter for a reason and it wasn't to do with luck. However, they didn't build upon it and I don't think Klopp has the ability to motivate a team that thinks they've done it all.

That last line is pretty laughable though my friend. VVD, Alison, Trent, Fabinho, Salah, Mane would all get into this United team.
 

GoldTrafford99

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One of the weirdest myths I've seen develop this season is that Ferguson had Carrick in defence for a whole chunk of the season. Carrick never played more than two league games in central defence in a season under Ferguson. By contrast Henderson has had to play ten and Fabinho even more than that. And they've also both missed two months combined.

There were three Premier League seasons under Ferguson where United had more defenders out injured - and for a longer time period - than Liverpool have had this season. They still contended for the league, finishing second in two of those seasons and winning it once.

Anyway, it's plain to see Liverpool's problems aren't just injuries; they suffered their worst defeats this season with Van Dijk still in the team. This Liverpool squad are shot... they've totally cycled off from being the hardest working team in the EPL over the past two years, to now the 8th hardest working team. They are shot. They are done for. This downturn and off-cycle has been going on a lot longer than since the day Van Dijk got injured. Liverpool's form has been poor for a full calendar year now... Just look at their record since last February... They are the 5th best team in the division in the past 12-months... And getting worse week on week. I think they're gonna finish 8th or 9th this season...
 

DoubleDinhos

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There were three Premier League seasons under Ferguson where United had more defenders out injured - and for a longer time period - than Liverpool have had this season. They still contended for the league, finishing second in two of those seasons and winning it once.

Anyway, it's plain to see Liverpool's problems aren't just injuries; they suffered their worst defeats this season with Van Dijk still in the team. This Liverpool squad are shot... they've totally cycled off from being the hardest working team in the EPL over the past two years, to now the 8th hardest working team. They are shot. They are done for. This downturn and off-cycle has been going on a lot longer than since the day Van Dijk got injured. Liverpool's form has been poor for a full calendar year now... Just look at their record since last February... They are the 5th best team in the division in the past 12-months... And getting worse week on week. I think they're gonna finish 8th or 9th this season...
VVD, Gomez, and Matip are going to play a combined 18 games this season. What seasons under Ferguson did your defenders play less than that?

I'm not going to doubt there's some serious problems elsewhere. And it might possibly be the start of a decline. But teams don't often lose that many players for that long and stay on title race pace. I do think this is an extraordinary circumstance.
 

Tom Cato

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If this was Manchester United I'd spent a lot of time coming up with a reasonable analysis, but since it's Liverpool I hope they long continue and end up getting relegated.
 

Tom Cato

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I'd have loved to see the Caf's response to seeing that line-up :lol::lol:
You absolutely can. The Caf archives go back to 2002!

Edit:

Found the threads for you:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/that-team-tonight.278278/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/well-done-michael-carrick.278282/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/motm-vs-wolfsburg-away.278256/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/player-ratings-v-wolfsburg.278259/

PIG - 8, Solid and growing in confidence
Fletch - 8, Did well against Dzeko and Graffite.
Carrick - 7, Good performance
Evra - 8, Fantastic leadership.
Anderson - 7, The usual audacious passes
Scholes - 8, Played like it was 1999.
Gibson - 6, Seemed largely anonymous in the 2nd half.
Park - 5, Ran around like a dog chasing a frisbee. No width on the right.
Nani - 7, Frustrating as usual, but occasionally brilliant. Fantastic cross.
Welbeck - 5, Too much dancing around and getting barged off the ball.
Owen - 8, Did what strikers are supposed to do. Well done.

Obertan - 8, Did what wingers are supposed to do. World Class on our 2nd.
Valencia - 6, Quiet spell.
 

George the Cat

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VVD, Gomez, and Matip are going to play a combined 18 games this season. What seasons under Ferguson did your defenders play less than that?

I'm not going to doubt there's some serious problems elsewhere. And it might possibly be the start of a decline. But teams don't often lose that many players for that long and stay on title race pace. I do think this is an extraordinary circumstance.
So the Dippers decline is all down to them losing their central defenders and nothing else, which is basically your argument?
A lot of people see it as his Dortmund mark 2, he’s run them into the ground and it’s all gone belly up.
 

The Brown Bull

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Think they finished 7th or 8th. Finished bottom of their UCL group too with their players fighting each other against Rosenberg.
Yeah I remember watching Rosenberg giving them a bit of a lash. Great stuff.
Boy did I hate them back then.
 

The Neville wears Prada

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Come on man I'm all for laughing at Liverpool but this kind of re-writing of history and blind false criticism for criticism's sake isn't warranted. They definitely didn't look great at the end of the season but for most of it and the season before they did play some great football through the front three and wing backs. Some of their attacking patterns and play were absolutely breathtaking. They won the CL and then the PL at a canter for a reason and it wasn't to do with luck. However, they didn't build upon it and I don't think Klopp has the ability to motivate a team that thinks they've done it all.

That last line is pretty laughable though my friend. VVD, Alison, Trent, Fabinho, Salah, Mane would all get into this United team.
I disagree. Yes Liverpool won a lot of games last season, but they were not 'breathtaking'. They were 'workmanlike'... They won it very similarly to how Mourinho has in the past.

VVD would get into our team and maybe Mane/Alisson. Salah is overrated and Trent is very average indeed. I am not your friend either.
 

ReallyUSA

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I disagree. Yes Liverpool won a lot of games last season, but they were not 'breathtaking'. They were 'workmanlike'... They won it very similarly to how Mourinho has in the past.

VVD would get into our team and maybe Mane/Alisson. Salah is overrated and Trent is very average indeed. I am not your friend either.
Maybe Mane and Alisson? Not Salah? You really think that?
 

mariachi-19

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I disagree... out of those only VVD and maybe Mane (debateable), maybe Alisson (not convinced about him either). I think I would only take VVD from their current team....

Also Sane doesn't play for Liverpool? And never has.... Not sure I trust your judgement here!
Mane/Sane, easy mistake. Irrespective, you are talking absolute bollocks. All four of those players are better than what we currently have in their respective positions.
 

The Neville wears Prada

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Mane/Sane, easy mistake. Irrespective, you are talking absolute bollocks. All four of those players are better than what we currently have in their respective positions.
I don't like your tone. I respect your opinion and it would be mature of you to respect that of others. That is what makes for great debate and why we are here! I wouldn't dream of replying to another poster in the manner you have there.
 

iHicksy

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I disagree. Yes Liverpool won a lot of games last season, but they were not 'breathtaking'. They were 'workmanlike'... They won it very similarly to how Mourinho has in the past.

VVD would get into our team and maybe Mane/Alisson. Salah is overrated and Trent is very average indeed. I am not your friend either.
Ok pal. Buddy, me ole' mucka. Maybe you should stay in the newbies eh.
 

eire-red

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From the 'Best PL team ever' to the 'Most injury ravaged team in history'. It's pathetic really, their defensive has only deteriorated since they lost Fabinho.

Have to remember that Liverpool shipped 7 goals against Aston Villa with VVD and Gomez playing. Even towards the back end of last season the 5-4 v Chelsea, and the 4-0 loss to City.

Seems to me like they've come off 5-10% after winning the league, which often happens, but no team has ever been hyped as much at this team in my opinion. So now when the wheels have come off, everyone is scrambling to explain it away.

If you want a prime example, look at Carragher and Keane picking the combined 11 from United's treble winning season and Liverpool's Pl winners from last year on Sky. Keane is bang on, they key to greatness is consistency, and the fact that United went on to win the League 00 and 01 after winning the treble just shows how idiotic the comparison was.
 

The Neville wears Prada

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From the 'Best PL team ever' to the 'Most injury ravaged team in history'. It's pathetic really, their defensive has only deteriorated since they lost Fabinho.

Have to remember that Liverpool shipped 7 goals against Aston Villa with VVD and Gomez playing. Even towards the back end of last season the 5-4 v Chelsea, and the 4-0 loss to City.

Seems to me like they've come off 5-10% after winning the league, which often happens, but no team has ever been hyped as much at this team in my opinion. So now when the wheels have come off, everyone is scrambling to explain it away.

If you want a prime example, look at Carragher and Keane picking the combined 11 from United's treble winning season and Liverpool's Pl winners from last year on Sky. Keane is bang on, they key to greatness is consistency, and the fact that United went on to win the League 00 and 01 after winning the treble just shows how idiotic the comparison was.
Exactly!! They have been awful and average at best for a full calendar year now (since the Athletico game). They are miles over-hyped and honestly I feel no current Liverpool players would get into our 99' team. Even now, the media are making excuses for them (weirdly as are some United fans on here!).

They are not even top 5-6 in terms of greatest Premier League teams ever. They would need to earn that status by maintaining last season's standards for 3-5 years in the league (and win it at least another couple of times).
 

The Neville wears Prada

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Mane ain’t getting in over Rashford, I’d take VVD and Salah obviously, but Allison has his headless chicken moments as well.
Completely agree! Seems that is a minority view amongst our fans weirdly! I definitely wouldn't take Allison. VVD for sure, not sure about anyone else honestly. They are SO overrated.
 

Counterfactual

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Exactly!! They have been awful and average at best for a full calendar year now (since the Athletico game). They are miles over-hyped and honestly I feel no current Liverpool players would get into our 99' team. Even now, the media are making excuses for them (weirdly as are some United fans on here!).

They are not even top 5-6 in terms of greatest Premier League teams ever. They would need to earn that status by maintaining last season's standards for 3-5 years in the league (and win it at least another couple of times).
Maintain a standard of 99 points per season for 3-5 years? Really?