Liverpool might pull out of Carabao cup

El Zoido

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This is they entire problem summed up in one post.

You are normalising playing two games in less than a day because it is done in other sports. Put it into perspective, whats your thoughts on Man United's fixture against Villa getting moved from the Sunday to the Friday night after playing away to Astana on the Thursday.

it's mental
I wouldn’t care honestly. It’s not normalising it at all, I’m not proposing changing all fixtures to be back to back. Professional sportsmen can’t play two games in a day, cry me a river. My god I cannot believe people actually think Klopp is right here. Though football has spent years conditioning fans in to believing they’re incapable of playing more than twice in a week without collapsing and dying on the pitch so it’s no surprising people eat this kind of bullshit up.
 

Number4.

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I wouldn’t care honestly. It’s not normalising it at all, I’m not proposing changing all fixtures to be back to back. Professional sportsmen can’t play two games in a day, cry me a river. My god I cannot believe people actually think Klopp is right here. Though football has spent years conditioning fans in to believing they’re incapable of playing more than twice in a week without collapsing and dying on the pitch so it’s no surprising people eat this kind of bullshit up.
Klopp is not arguing that people are going to die by playing two games in 21 hours, what he is arguing is that this should have been adressed months ago when it was clear it was a problem - I suspect he is going use it as a nice excuse to thin the squad going to Qatar & will look on it as a positive, but in the long terms, it's a pandora's box.

Suddenly, Champions league matches start getting moved to a friday & teams expected to play PL on saturday and everyone just sucks it up?????

That's what you are advocating
 

MackRobinson

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They can do it, they have the squad to do it, and travel is luxury for the wealthy. It’s really no big deal at all. Just a game of football, professional cyclists ride up the fecking Alps day after day in the Tour de France, in six-hour long stages, which is 10x the exertion and difficulty of playing two soft 90 minutes games of football back to back. Other sports such as NHL has games night after night. I’m sick of managers complaining about it. It won’t kill them to play two games in consecutive days. Maybe Klopp should take up a different sport that’s a bit easier on him, poor baby.
Are you serious? Liverpool have the softest Christmas fixture list every single year, they have the biggest breaks between games compared to every other team. This is the first year they’ve ever had any kind of adversity, they’re given every advantage all the time.
RAWKish
 

elánius

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Are you serious? Liverpool have the softest Christmas fixture list every single year, they have the biggest breaks between games compared to every other team. This is the first year they’ve ever had any kind of adversity, they’re given every advantage all the time.
Please dont be like Liverpool fans when they called SAF a head of FA. Do you think it is normal to play two games in two days, one in England and second in Qatar? Its that simple.
 

Imran Mamdani

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Being a fecking douchebag here, you have a squad of 50 including youngsters. Just play the kids, why would you need to pull out? Twat.
accumulating some sympathy for when they dropped the ball and fail to win the EPL, or any other fall in form or silverware. Such a Twatlopp.
 

ariveded

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It should be prepone to this upcoming international break. That is the best option obviously both sides agree given. So anytime between 12-21 Nov....
 

fergies coat

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Only fans of a team like United would say something like this.
Teams outside of the top six in the Premier League do actually exist.
Teams like Colchester United exist, teams like Burton Albion exist and the league cup gives those clubs the opportunity to go on a money spinning cup run that makes the world of difference to them financially. It also gives their fans the opportunity to go away and face teams like United. You try telling Swansea, Colchester, Bradford, Burton or Bristol City fans the league cup is shit and needs to be scrapped because poor old Champions of Europe Liverpool have to play two games in 48 hours that one time in 2019....
If the big clubs don’t like the league cup because they have to play too many games. Play 11 of the 200 under 18’s they have on their books, half of whom they took from football league clubs.
It’s seriously cringe and embarrassing anytime a manage of one of the big clubs in England whinges about cup completions causing “too many games”.
We already have something similar to that it’s called the FA cup. If we only ever had one cup competition, and somebody from the FA said let’s create a second domestic cup competition what do you think people would say? What’s the point we have one. Why would we need another? It doesn’t make sense.
 

lsd

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Its a good solution just a shame we were not allowed the same option when it happened us
 

Alex99

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When United won the PL, the League Cup, Community Shield and the Club World Cup, while also reaching the CL final and FA semi in 2008/09, they played 20 matches between 22nd November and 31st January.

Should Liverpool progress to the League Cup semi and FA Cup 4th round, they'll play 21 matches between 23rd November and 1st February.

The only difference is the admittedly ridiculous turnaround between the League Cup quarter and their first CWC game, so I'm not really sure why Klopp is moaning about fixture congestion as a problem throughout winter when the only actually daft bit is the Birmingham to Doha turnaround.

Even then, it's not a league game, and they can't be expected to play the same line-up in both, so just play the kids in the league cup and let whoever the u23s coach is take charge, while Klopp and the seniors head to Qatar. Not ideal but hardly like it's going to drastically change the line ups we would have seen if there was more of a gap.
 

noodlehair

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Klopp is not arguing that people are going to die by playing two games in 21 hours, what he is arguing is that this should have been adressed months ago when it was clear it was a problem - I suspect he is going use it as a nice excuse to thin the squad going to Qatar & will look on it as a positive, but in the long terms, it's a pandora's box.

Suddenly, Champions league matches start getting moved to a friday & teams expected to play PL on saturday and everyone just sucks it up?????

That's what you are advocating
The problem is that the first we heard of this from Klopp was after they reached the quarter final and already knocked two teams out...and not only that but instead of saying it was an issue they'd need to look at, he decided to threaten to withdraw from the competition unless everything was changed last minute to accommodate his team.

If he considered it such an outrage he should have addressed it when the fixtures were announced and said at that stage they might have to withdraw. I think that would have been fair enough. Waiting until there's only 8 teams left then making out your so important the competition should change to accommodate you or else you'll refuse to participate is a complete dick move
 
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The problem is that the first we heard of this from Klopp was after they reached the quarter final and already knocked two teams out...and not only that but instead of saying it was an issue they'd need to look at, he decided to threaten to withdraw from the competition unless everything was changed last minute to accommodate his team.

If he considered it such an outrage he should have addressed it when the fixtures were announced and said at that stage they might have to withdraw. I think that would have been fair enough. Waiting until there's only 8 teams left then making out your so important the competition should change to accommodate you or else you'll refuse to participate is a complete dick move
Perhaps he didn’t want to be accused of arrogance. It’s a bit ripe talking about future rounds when you haven’t even got past the 3rd or 4th round first.

Those sorts of quotes would have come back to bite him in the arse if they got knocked out beforehand.
 

tomaldinho1

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It's such a pointless cup anyway, I actually support the idea of teams not prioritising it. Just play a reserve/youth team.

I think I'm right in saying other big leagues don't have an equivalent? There's the FA cup, Copa, Coppa, DFB-Pokal, Coupe de France etc. Do any other countries have the extra domestic cup?
 

christy87

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It's such a pointless cup anyway, I actually support the idea of teams not prioritising it. Just play a reserve/youth team.

I think I'm right in saying other big leagues don't have an equivalent? There's the FA cup, Copa, Coppa, DFB-Pokal, Coupe de France etc. Do any other countries have the extra domestic cup?
The French do I think
 

Leroy The Red

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We already have something similar to that it’s called the FA cup. If we only ever had one cup competition, and somebody from the FA said let’s create a second domestic cup competition what do you think people would say? What’s the point we have one. Why would we need another? It doesn’t make sense.
Erm they did that and clubs wanted another competition. One of the reasons the league cup was introduced was because it gave smaller clubs more of a chance. Same way we have the efl trophy. Why should the smaller clubs not get two bites at the cherry? The winner of the league cup also gets a place in Europe, Birmingham and Swansea fans actually got to see their teams playing in Europe. I know for elite clubs like United one year in Europe might not seem like a big deal but for those clubs it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.
It’s all just very elitist bullshit, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it yet again. Most of the big clubs have an avalanche of players on their books, if it’s such a massive inconvenience to play an extra five games a season, give your youngsters an opportunity in these five games.
Coventry brought 12,000 fans to old Trafford in 2007 for a league cup tie against basically a united reserve team, think they gave a shit? Absolutely not.
 

JPRouve

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It's such a pointless cup anyway, I actually support the idea of teams not prioritising it. Just play a reserve/youth team.

I think I'm right in saying other big leagues don't have an equivalent? There's the FA cup, Copa, Coppa, DFB-Pokal, Coupe de France etc. Do any other countries have the extra domestic cup?
France have the League Cup too but it will be defunct next season.
 

Hughie77

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Does it matter, Klopp has never since he's been in prem put a strong or decent 11 for League cup or F.A cup, it competitions he deems not important.
The only issue is he will have to leave some of the players he would take to Quatar behind surely. Pulling out staying in makes no difference. Villa away would be a tough one no matter who he puts in that was evident last weekend.

Waying up now what kind of fine they would get to forfeit, can't see the F.A not doing anything, they haven't moved fixture so why would they just leave it if they forfeit .
 

Hughie77

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We did a similar thing before didn't we, after 99'?
Yes had to withdraw from F.A cup as holders, to go to the first world club tournament, basically were told we had to go, it was in January then . Moved it later to December . If memory serves me Utd offered to put out then called reserve side out in the F.A cup for the round , but we're told no they couldn't.

Caused a right stir in 2000, not happened since, it's just unlucky this time round a club is in another cup in December.
 

giorno

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The problem is that the first we heard of this from Klopp was after they reached the quarter final and already knocked two teams out...and not only that but instead of saying it was an issue they'd need to look at, he decided to threaten to withdraw from the competition unless everything was changed last minute to accommodate his team.

If he considered it such an outrage he should have addressed it when the fixtures were announced and said at that stage they might have to withdraw. I think that would have been fair enough. Waiting until there's only 8 teams left then making out your so important the competition should change to accommodate you or else you'll refuse to participate is a complete dick move
In light of Liverpool's decision to go ahead with the original date and pretty obviously sending the U23, it wasn't moaning, it was a PR move to get ahead of the story of "Liverpool decide to throw their league cup game"
 

Snow

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In light of Liverpool's decision to go ahead with the original date and pretty obviously sending the U23, it wasn't moaning, it was a PR move to get ahead of the story of "Liverpool decide to throw their league cup game"
They did tried to throw the last league cup game but unfortunately for them they were playing Emery at home.
 

einstein

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Now, I am not a liverpool supporter, but I really don't get how people are rationalizing it to be OK for liverpool to play two teams accross two competitions.

How can your hatred for liverpool make you so daft that you can't see when things are not fair and equal?

And I am not talking about liverpool's decision to play their first team or second team or even U16 players. That should be there prerogative. But taking that decision away from them is wrong. Caraboa cup, or any trophy for that matter, should be a fair and equal competition with all the participating teams having equal opportunity to win. Whether they decide to compete or not, or commit to full squad or U23 or u16 should be left as a choice. What has happened here has taken that choice away from liverpool. If a teams wins the carabao cup or CWC tomorrow, there is no asterisk under the win, that they won it against U23 teams. It's a professional trophy (albeit not the most important one, but it still is supposed to be). Then why is one team being forced to play their U23 team while other teams have the freedom to play full strength.

This also sets a dangerous precedence and opens doors for corruption. If some officials tomorrow are biased towards or against some teams, they could now make them play in impossible situations as this, and use this incident as an example to justify it.
 
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giorno

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And I am not talking about liverpool's decision to play their first team or second team or even U16 players. That should be there prerogative. But taking that decision away from them is wrong.
Going by Joyce's tweet, they in fact *did not* take the decision away from liverpool. Liverpool decided to go with it
 

fergies coat

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Erm they did that and clubs wanted another competition. One of the reasons the league cup was introduced was because it gave smaller clubs more of a chance. Same way we have the efl trophy. Why should the smaller clubs not get two bites at the cherry? The winner of the league cup also gets a place in Europe, Birmingham and Swansea fans actually got to see their teams playing in Europe. I know for elite clubs like United one year in Europe might not seem like a big deal but for those clubs it was a once in a lifetime opportunity.
It’s all just very elitist bullshit, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it yet again. Most of the big clubs have an avalanche of players on their books, if it’s such a massive inconvenience to play an extra five games a season, give your youngsters an opportunity in these five games.
Coventry brought 12,000 fans to old Trafford in 2007 for a league cup tie against basically a united reserve team, think they gave a shit? Absolutely not.
Yes they brought it in nearly 60 years ago when there was a handful of European games. You have mid table PL teams resting players for the league cup. You even have championship teams that don’t care about it and they rest players. It’s a pointless competition for everybody involved. The smaller teams have the Fa cup.
 

einstein

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Going by Joyce's tweet, they in fact *did not* take the decision away from liverpool. Liverpool decided to go with it
If your two options are not to play the competition or play reserves, that is not exactly deciding to go with it now, is it?

United in 2000 did not play, Liverpool is playing the reserves, but ultimately football is the real looser here.
 

riis

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If the big clubs don’t like the league cup because they have to play too many games. Play 11 of the 200 under 18’s they have on their books, half of whom they took from football league clubs.
They made rules so that you aren't allowed to do that though, you are supposed to play your strongest eligible XI.

Also, LFC U23s and LFC U18s both have games on either the 17th or 18th of December. LFC have a total of 69 players registered from U18 and up that aren't loaned to other clubs, 10 of which are GKs and 7 of which are currently injured. To send full squads (starting 11 + full bench) to both senior games and both youth games scheduled for 17th and 18th would require 73 players in total (CWC squad of 23, 19 for the league cup game, and 16 each for the youth games).
 

giorno

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If your two options are not to play the competition or play reserves, that is not exactly deciding to go with it now, is it?
Do we know what the choices were?

I think it highly unlikely they couldn't reschedule
 

einstein

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Do we know what the choices were?

I think it highly unlikely they couldn't reschedule
Wasn't that the first option liverpool wanted? That was what klopp was saying at beginning of this whole debate if you go a few pages back.
 

berbasloth4

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any other club we be saying its a joke etc.

English fa are an embarrasment other fas doctor their fixture lists to help there teams get success in europe. i remember we were going for treble and there was request for the end of season to be lengthened and they wouldnt.

german dutch spanish all accomodate their sides
 

Robertd0803

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It wont matter, they could put out the under 16 side coached by Carraghers uncle or whoever and knowing Liverpool they will win with a 91st minute dodgy penalty.
 

Red_toad

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No club should be expected to play 2 games in 2 days and play a completely different team in each match.
? Clubs do it all the time, under 18’s, 23’s etc. City have 2 sides that’d both finish in the top half of the table within their squad. The answer is pretty obvious for Klopp, leave behind the players who won’t feature and call up some youngsters. Playing 2 games in 2 days isn’t the norm, but when it happens they gotta deal with it, as they’ve got a big enough squad of players to choose from...
 

giorno

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Wasn't that the first option liverpool wanted? That was what klopp was saying at beginning of this whole debate if you go a few pages back.
That's what it looked like. Now? It sounds more like an excuse to go through with the reserves team and avoid punishment