Liverpool - Premier League champions 19/20 Season*

Boitol

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They are as lucky as anything. It seems the Gods have conspired to hand them the title this season.
Lucky Liverpool.
Meltdown :lol: I’ve accepted that they’re as good as champions. But they’re certainly riding their luck. A great front 3, a great CH and a great keeper. Rest is average mate. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the league really.
How about three full backs? Also Fabhino?

Get it Henderson and Wjanaldum aren’t world class but the team are pretty good otherwise.
 

Finn MacCool

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Meltdown :lol: I’ve accepted that they’re as good as champions. But they’re certainly riding their luck. A great front 3, a great CH and a great keeper. Rest is average mate. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the league really.
I wouldn’t class Trent, Robertson and Fabinho as average. But on a broader point it’s all about the collective. Something Utd fans should understand well as there were many “average” players in some of Fergie’s best teams but they all did their job brilliantly which allowed the world class players to flourish.
 

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Meltdown :lol: I’ve accepted that they’re as good as champions. But they’re certainly riding their luck. A great front 3, a great CH and a great keeper. Rest is average mate. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the league really.
Yeah, OK, apart from roads, sewerage, education, Alisson, TAA, VvD, Robertson, Fabinho, Salah, Mane and Firmino what is it that Klopp has done for Liverpool? :lol::lol::lol:
 

Josh 76

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9 points clear if they win next week against the poorest City team under Pep.
I'm not sure Liverpool fans will be able to handle it. The title will be good as won, they will have the T-shirts printed and the hotels in Liverpool will be putting their prices up for the title parade in May. Pep will be forgotten and Liverpool will be thinking of a CL and PL double.

Then one cold night in January, Liverpool concede a late goal and drop points to Brighton. SKY will report the gap has been cut down to 'only' 7 points and Liverpool still have to go to the Ethihad. Laporte and Sane are on the way back and a couple of January signings for City.......That forgotten man, starts to re- appear in the minds of everyone on the red half of Merseyside.

City have been there won it and worn the T-shirts. Liverpool have just worn the T-shirts.
 

Dumbstar

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9 points clear if they win next week against the poorest City team under Pep.
I'm not sure Liverpool fans will be able to handle it. The title will be good as won, they will have the T-shirts printed and the hotels in Liverpool will be putting their prices up for the title parade in May. Pep will be forgotten and Liverpool will be thinking of a CL and PL double.

Then one cold night in January, Liverpool concede a late goal and drop points to Brighton. SKY will report the gap has been cut down to 'only' 7 points and Liverpool still have to go to the Ethihad. Laporte and Sane are on the way back and a couple of January signings for City.......That forgotten man, starts to re- appear in the minds of everyone on the red half of Merseyside.

City have been there won it and worn the T-shirts. Liverpool have just worn the T-shirts.
Before we get to January City also have Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal, Wolves (their fave oppos), Leicester and of course Utd all in a row.
 

That_Bloke

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Meltdown :lol: I’ve accepted that they’re as good as champions. But they’re certainly riding their luck. A great front 3, a great CH and a great keeper. Rest is average mate. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the league really.
It really ain't though? I don't know how people are downplaying their incredible run to a lucky ride.

Their FBs are among, if not the best in the league and their biggest source of assists. Fabinho is a monster and would walk straight into any starting XI bar Man City and Chelsea.
 

PickledRed

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Meltdown :lol: I’ve accepted that they’re as good as champions. But they’re certainly riding their luck. A great front 3, a great CH and a great keeper. Rest is average mate. It doesn’t say much for the rest of the league really.
I do love this kind of analysis. Unfortunately no manager in the league will agree.

1 defeat in 50 league matches and most of the lads are average. Won more points than anyone in those 50 games and most of the lads are average. Fair play.
 

Klopper76

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That's just not true. You have been poor in a huge majority of games this season yet you're team have a great self belief which gets them results. Mane is a diver, and even finally got booked for doing so yesterday.
Which games have you watched us in where you thought we were poor this season?
 

PickledRed

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Which games have you watched us in where you thought we were poor this season?
Liverpool haven’t been poor. I think that perception is born out of the nature of victories. A good example is Leicester at home. Very close scoreline but Liverpool were excellent overall against a strong team. Leicester had one shot on target.
 

mwake

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Physical efforts and determination are not something unbounded, they have their cost which will come to bite you in the arse later into the season. You rely too much on being fitter than the opposition and out running it for this to be sustainable for 2 whole seasons, given you don't rotate your best players in the important competitions and they play also every game during the international breaks. If they still are out sprinting the opposition come March/April, I'd wonder whether FSG had hired some medical genius.
Worked last year, we looked the fittest team in Europe and accumulated a lot of points and a cup. This year could finally get that premiership with the same fitness strategy.
 

BlueHaze

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If they win next weekend against City I'd say thats the title wrapped up for them. Although I do think they've already won it regardless.
 

Treble

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I don't think Liverpool have been very lucky or something. They have been really good but probably not 31 from 33 pts good. When people say they are lucky, they don't mean that they are being dominated and somehow win, but that they were a bit lucky to win so many pts. In half of their away games they haven't been that great.

Another aspects of luck are absence of injuries in comparison to City and also the fact the latter lost pts in games they dominated.

Late goals are not down to luck. Liverpool are physically in a better shape than most teams and are able to dominate them in the last minutes when they are seriously tired. Whether and for how long this physical superiority is sustainable is interesting to debate. Also there is a question about mental resilience and fatigue. Competing with City knowing that any point might decide the title requires a lot of mental energy as well and mental tiredness will kick in at some point. Dortmund had a catastrophic season under Klopp, after which he left. I doubt he will stay for very long at Liverpool as most of the key players will be 29-30 y.o. in 2 years and all the physical and mental effort will wear them down.
 

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Which games have you watched us in where you thought we were poor this season?
Southampton, Leicester, Chelsea, United, Villa, Spurs could all have ended in a draw or defeat for you lot. That's just off the top of my head.

Quite how you are top of the table is anyone's guess.
 

friedeggden

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Southampton, Leicester, Chelsea, United, Villa, Spurs could all have ended in a draw or defeat for you lot. That's just off the top of my head.

Quite how you are top of the table is anyone's guess.
It's called winning.

If you actually watched the Spurs or Leicester game you would have seen that we dominated both of them. A tight scoreline doesn't mean we weren't on top for most of the match.

And the United game did end in a draw, do you not even watch your own teams matches?
 

Josh 76

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Before we get to January City also have Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal, Wolves (their fave oppos), Leicester and of course Utd all in a row.
Potentially 9 points clear this time next week and your still looking at City's fixtures. Pep is living in your head rent free :lol:
 

Liver_bird

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I don't think Liverpool have been very lucky or something. They have been really good but probably not 31 from 33 pts good. When people say they are lucky, they don't mean that they are being dominated and somehow win, but that they were a bit lucky to win so many pts. In half of their away games they haven't been that great.

Another aspects of luck are absence of injuries in comparison to City and also the fact the latter lost pts in games they dominated.

Late goals are not down to luck. Liverpool are physically in a better shape than most teams and are able to dominate them in the last minutes when they are seriously tired. Whether and for how long this physical superiority is sustainable is interesting to debate. Also there is a question about mental resilience and fatigue. Competing with City knowing that any point might decide the title requires a lot of mental energy as well and mental tiredness will kick in at some point. Dortmund had a catastrophic season under Klopp, after which he left. I doubt he will stay for very long at Liverpool as most of the key players will be 29-30 y.o. in 2 years and all the physical and mental effort will wear them down.
People said the same thing last season, that we’re good but not 97 points good and that VAR would crush us this season. Except we won the CL where VAR is an ever present, and we’re sat top now. There’s certainly ways for this team to improve and of course we’ll struggle once the front three reaches the end of its peak but that’s 2-3 years away and a problem for then not now. We have to trust the club to get that right because that’s all we can do we have no influence over it.

Interesting point about physical superiority, I know we hired the Bayern nutritionist and our back room team are all experts in their field. That may be something that’s providing us an advantage.
 

Klopper76

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Southampton, Leicester, Chelsea, United, Villa, Spurs could all have ended in a draw or defeat for you lot. That's just off the top of my head.

Quite how you are top of the table is anyone's guess.
We dominated Spurs and Leicester and should’ve been out of sight against both. We were comfortable against Southampton until Adrian’s howler and missed several chances to kill the game off and completely dominated Villa on shots, possession & XG. United hardly managed a shot on target against us regardless of how poor we were. We also finished that game on top and looking more likely to win it.

You’re either saying that we played well in those games and deserved to win, but circumstances meant that we were lucky because of the close score line.

Or

You’re saying that we didn’t deserve to win those games based on performance.

Which one is it?
 

djembatheking

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Long way to go, remember they were 7 points clear at the beginning of January last year, first team to not go on to win it with such a margin at the turn of the year. Record breakers.
 

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We dominated Spurs and Leicester and should’ve been out of sight against both. We were comfortable against Southampton until Adrian’s howler and missed several chances to kill the game off and completely dominated Villa on shots, possession & XG. United hardly managed a shot on target against us regardless of how poor we were. We also finished that game on top and looking more likely to win it.

You’re either saying that we played well in those games and deserved to win, but circumstances meant that we were lucky because of the close score line.

Or

You’re saying that we didn’t deserve to win those games based on performance.

Which one is it?
Your recollection of those games isn't even close to accurate. I suggest you remove the blinkers currently obscuring your view or be forever blind to the truth.

It's a pointless discussion in any case since pretty much all of it is subjective. Better we just agree that I am right and you are, well, not.

No?
 

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It's called winning.

If you actually watched the Spurs or Leicester game you would have seen that we dominated both of them. A tight scoreline doesn't mean we weren't on top for most of the match.

And the United game did end in a draw, do you not even watch your own teams matches?
No.

I'd prefer to have my anal beard plucked by rusty tweezers than watch United play football these days.
 

gibers

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Their team reminds me of us in the old days. Never give up and you can just 'feel' that they will score. Their football isn't great on the eye but they are a machine.
 

Klopper76

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Your recollection of those games isn't even close to accurate. I suggest you remove the blinkers currently obscuring your view or be forever blind to the truth.

It's a pointless discussion in any case since pretty much all of it is subjective. Better we just agree that I am right and you are, well, not.

No?
I would say we agree to disagree (I’m right) and go about our business (I’m so right).
 

njred

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Their team reminds me of us in the old days. Never give up and you can just 'feel' that they will score. Their football isn't great on the eye but they are a machine.
Except your old days lasted 20 years and 13 leagues with late goals and 7 min of extra time in every efn match where you needed a goal. We haven’t even won and you lot are moaning. Hence the reference to meltdown and hysterics.
 

Dave Smith

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Still early doors in the league to be talking about winners. Liverpool at the moment deserve to be top but they should not really be 6 points clear. A couple of games they really should not have won. Chelsea is one game that they should not have won and they only did because of their naivety. In that game, Firmino's header was joke defending and a reason why I do not rate Kepa as he does not control his 6 yard area and stays at home all the time because he is awful in the air, the Abraham should have squared to Mount, Mount should have scored his chance and if Lampard had put on Giroud instead of Batsh*t that headed chance would have been converted as that is his bread and butter. Spurs, they really should have gone 2-0 down to as Son should have scored his chance when he hit the bar and as for the Sheff Utd, Leicester and Villa games, they all committed suicidal mistakes (although to be fair that could be to do with pressure, although I still maintain that the penalty against Leicester was a dive and should have been reversed.)
 

Treble

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People said the same thing last season, that we’re good but not 97 points good and that VAR would crush us this season. Except we won the CL where VAR is an ever present, and we’re sat top now. There’s certainly ways for this team to improve and of course we’ll struggle once the front three reaches the end of its peak but that’s 2-3 years away and a problem for then not now. We have to trust the club to get that right because that’s all we can do we have no influence over it.

Interesting point about physical superiority, I know we hired the Bayern nutritionist and our back room team are all experts in their field. That may be something that’s providing us an advantage.
It's not only people, it's xG models too. You overachieve both in terms of the eye test and the stat models. That this has lasted at the start of this season won't guarantee that it will continue to be the same thing till the end of the season, let alone over the next seasons.

One of the reasons Mourinho used to run his teams in the ground was that he played his key players almost permanently and rotated the lesser players. Klopp is doing the same, but somehow gets away with it so far. To think that Bayern's nutritionist is the reason is a bit naive, imo. Let's see what happens later in the season. Right now Liverpool look in a better shape than City, who blow hot and cold, maybe the injuries have had their effect on their performances. They'll miss both Laporte and Rodri at Anfield. Given their absences, it's a must win for Liverpool.
 

Halds

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Chelsea is one game that they should not have won and they only did because of their naivety. In that game, Firmino's header was joke defending and a reason why I do not rate Kepa as he does not control his 6 yard area and stays at home all the time because he is awful in the air, the Abraham should have squared to Mount, Mount should have scored his chance and if Lampard had put on Giroud instead of Batsh*t that headed chance would have been converted as that is his bread and butter.
So are you saying that if Chelsea weren't naive, if they defended better, if they had a better keeper, if Abraham had squared to Mount, if Mount had scored on his chance, and if Giroud had played instead of Batshuayi, then we would have lost that game, and therefore we should have lost it..?
 

sharpstar69

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So are you saying that if Chelsea weren't naive, if they defended better, if they had a better keeper, if Abraham had squared to Mount, if Mount had scored on his chance, and if Giroud had played instead of Batshuayi, then we would have lost that game, and therefore we should have lost it..?

lots of "IFS" in there.....get back to playing FM.
 

PickledRed

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Potentially 9 points clear this time next week and your still looking at City's fixtures. Pep is living in your head rent free :lol:
Yep. City living in my head. No question. Main rival. Two excellent teams winning nearly every match. Of course they are.

Looking at their run of fixtures is kind of normal.

The glib unoriginal Twitter-speak that goes on is unbelievably dull. Adds nothing.

Right here there’s an extremely active thread on Liverpool on a United forum. Does this mean United fans have an unhealthy obsession with Liverpool? No, it means United fans are really interested in Liverpool - totally normal.
 

Josh 76

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Yep. City living in my head. No question. Main rival. Two excellent teams winning nearly every match. Of course they are.

Looking at their run of fixtures is kind of normal.

The glib unoriginal Twitter-speak that goes on is unbelievably dull. Adds nothing.

Right here there’s an extremely active thread on Liverpool on a United forum. Does this mean United fans have an unhealthy obsession with Liverpool? No, it means United fans are really interested in Liverpool - totally normal.
What I'm trying to say is being potentially 9 points clear, you shouldn't be worrying about Pep.
In our 25 years of dominance we didn't give a feck about anyone.
 

PickledRed

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It's not only people, it's xG models too. You overachieve both in terms of the eye test and the stat models.
xG...

2018/19 season:
Liverpool outperformed opponent 34/38 times

2019/20 season so far:
Liverpool outperformed opponent 9/11 times

That’s 43/49.
 

PickledRed

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What I'm trying to say is being potentially 9 points clear, you shouldn't be worrying about Pep.
In our 25 years of dominance we didn't give a feck about anyone.
That’s not true. Ferguson spent his time talking about rivals. A well-executed strategy that was based on undermining rivals.

Pizza-Gate was the height of this - Arsenal rightly preoccupied United’s thoughts. That’s just normal. Suggesting otherwise is just bravado nonsense.
 

Treble

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xG...

2018/19 season:
Liverpool outperformed opponent 34/38 times

2019/20 season so far:
Liverpool outperformed opponent 9/11 times

That’s 43/49.
According to the understated xG model you had to finish on 83 pts and over achieved with 14 pts last season. City over achieved with 7 pts. According to the same model, you should have been 3 pts off City this season. Basically, what I'm saying in the post you quoted.
 

PickledRed

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According to the understated xG model you had to finish on 83 pts and over achieved with 14 pts last season. City over achieved with 7 pts. According to the same model, you should have been 3 pts off City this season. Basically, what I'm saying in the post you quoted.
Ok. But according to xG Liverpool have been the better team in 88% of games over the past two seasons. That’s incredible - nothing is flattering this side. The preoccupation with overachieving and luck is a complete distraction. Lose 1/50 games - you deserve success.
 

christinaa

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Please don’t overreact.

Wasn’t even a dive.
So according to you the Mane dive wasn't a dive at all?!
Then why did he get booked for it ?
Try to be honest in your comments, especially this last one please.

We can see you're one of those Liverpool fans who come here for only one reason - and we all know what it is.
 

Treble

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Ok. But according to xG Liverpool have been the better team in 88% of games over the past two seasons. That’s incredible - nothing is flattering this side. The preoccupation with overachieving and luck is a complete distraction. Lose 1/50 games - you deserve success.
City have been the better team in more games, including this season. According to xG you should have been 4 pts off City this season. You are 6 pts above them. Do you think you deserve to be 6 pts ahead on the basis of the performances? Yes or no?
 

Chip Butty

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I'm going off piste here obviously and maybe taking myself, as well as others, out of their comfort zone - but maybe, just maybe, statistical prediction models mean diddly squat in the real world and humans can, on the odd occasion, upset and perform above and beyond(on a consistent basis) what is not expected of them from both a statistical level, as well as a manager plus what their mum and dad's think?

Call me mad. I know. But it's like we should watch football instead of an abacus.
 

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Daft comment, imo. It's not sustainable to consistently top the running tables, especially with regard to sprints, if you don't do much rotation and if you play also in several compets, especially in the final stages of the CL. If it was that easy to run and sprint as much as Liverpool do, then the other teams would do it as well and Liverpool wouldn't be able to out run them and over power them, and Barca would win the CL most seasons as they have the best players technique wise.

There is a reason why some players/teams get run in the ground and it is that it's very hard to out perform physically the other teams year in year out.
What do you base this argument on? Your gut feeling?

Anyone with any experience with running would tell you that the match program for a premier league footballer is very much sustainable if they are relatively fit. Of course you have lazier players who won't cope, but they don't represent everyone.
 

Josh 76

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That’s not true. Ferguson spent his time talking about rivals. A well-executed strategy that was based on undermining rivals.

Pizza-Gate was the height of this - Arsenal rightly preoccupied United’s thoughts. That’s just normal. Suggesting otherwise is just bravado nonsense.
:lol:
Good response.
I was just messing. Just enjoy your title charge. You have probably got a couple of years left to achieve this obsession, before klopp goes, and the rest of us get out acts together.