Liverpool - Premier League champions 19/20 Season*

redman5

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What do you base this argument on? Your gut feeling?

Anyone with any experience with running would tell you that the match program for a premier league footballer is very much sustainable if they are relatively fit. Of course you have lazier players who won't cope, but they don't represent everyone.
That's a very valid point, & I think @Treble is working on the assumption that all footballers are equal with respects to workrate, commitment, & desire to win. You see some highly paid players walk off the pitch after 90 minutes without an ounce of sweat on them, & then you get others who are soaked to the skin in sweat because of the amount of effort they put in. Klopp has now got a bunch of players who fit into the 2nd category. Lads who'll run & run, & then run through brick walls if need be. I bet if stats were available for distance covered by United players under Ferguson's glory years then we'd see them pretty near to the top of that particular table. It never did them any harm in respect to winning major honours.
 

Treble

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What do you base this argument on? Your gut feeling?

Anyone with any experience with running would tell you that the match program for a premier league footballer is very much sustainable if they are relatively fit. Of course you have lazier players who won't cope, but they don't represent everyone.
You are talking nonsense. Much depends on how often and in how difficult games the players take part. Fatigue wouldn't be a thing if most PL footballers were fit to play with high intensity every 4-5 days.
 

redman5

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City have been the better team in more games, including this season. According to xG you should have been 4 pts off City this season. You are 6 pts above them. Do you think you deserve to be 6 pts ahead on the basis of the performances? Yes or no?
City have only played one team (Spurs at home) from last season's top 6. Liverpool have played 4. So yeah, all things considered, we do deserve to be 6 points clear.
 

Josh 76

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City have only played one team (Spurs at home) from last season's top 6. Liverpool have played 4. So yeah, all things considered, we do deserve to be 6 points clear.
Last season's top 6 means feck all.
 

PickledRed

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City have been the better team in more games, including this season. According to xG you should have been 4 pts off City this season. You are 6 pts above them. Do you think you deserve to be 6 pts ahead on the basis of the performances? Yes or no?
Yes because City have conceded twice or more on three occasions whereas Liverpool haven't at all. That's what's cost City. You can be better but if your standard dips in one-off matches then you will suffer a disproportionately negative impact on your league standing.

Liverpool not 'being as good as City' doesn't matter if they're not playing City. They just have to be better than the side they played, which they consistently are. Furthermore, this season over the first 11 games Liverpool have had a tougher run of games. So to compare equivalent performances between the two teams is a muddled comparison - it's not strong science.
 

Treble

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City have only played one team (Spurs at home) from last season's top 6. Liverpool have played 4. So yeah, all things considered, we do deserve to be 6 points clear.
Terrible logic. The points you deserve from a certain number of games and the difficulty of the games are two quite different things. Think a little bit more before replying.

You could/should have said that the difference between both sides in terms of xG is down to the difficulty of the games and it will change when City play those games. That Liverpool played more difficult fixtures on paper does not justify them having 6 pts more. It's a brain fart to think otherwise.
 
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Treble

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Yes because City have conceded twice or more on three occasions whereas Liverpool haven't at all. That's what's cost City. You can be better but if your standard dips in one-off matches then you will suffer a disproportionately negative impact on your league standing.

Liverpool not 'being as good as City' doesn't matter if they're not playing City. They just have to be better than the side they played, which they consistently are. Furthermore, this season over the first 11 games Liverpool have had a tougher run of games. So to compare equivalent performances between the two teams is a muddled comparison - it's not strong science.
Liverpool haven't conceded more goals partly because of luck, especialy against Chelsea who missed at least 3-4 great chances. Soton missed at least two great chances, one when it was 0:0, one when it was 1:2. Sheffiled U missed a great chance when the result was 0:0, etc.
 
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Klopper76

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Liverpool haven't conceded more goals partly because of luck, especialy against Chelsea who missed at least 3-4 great chances. Soton missed at least two great chances, one when it was 0:0, one when it was 1:2. Sheffiled U missed a great chance when the result was 0:0, etc.
Can’t you also say that those sides didn’t concede more against us because of luck as well? We missed several great chances against Sheffield United and Southampton.

Also those sides taking those chances doesn’t guarantee dropped points for this Liverpool team. The numbers are there to show Liverpool have strong powers of recovery in games.
 

SeeMe

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What a ridiculous comment!

You cannot justify Salah and Mane by citing the 'supposedly' divers in other teams - what is WRONG has to be admitted as WRONG !
Against you have to understand they don't called it wrong but clever play nowadays , every team do so.
 

VeevaVee

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Bloody hell, a Liverpool player actually got booked for diving. Have any of their fans admitted it was a dive or has it been the usual pretence?
 

Swarlos

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Bloody hell, a Liverpool player actually got booked for diving. Have any of their fans admitted it was a dive or has it been the usual pretence?
Considering that every replay shows it wasn’t a dive, why would anyone admit it?
 

Swarlos

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You are talking nonsense. Much depends on how often and in how difficult games the players take part. Fatigue wouldn't be a thing if most PL footballers were fit to play with high intensity every 4-5 days.
I ask again, do you have any experience in any relevant sport that allows you to say that I’m talking nonsense?
 

Swarlos

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Unfortunately the only video on Youtube.


Not a dive baaaaahaha :lol:
If you actually watch the video he clearly gets stamped on his right foot. You can argue that he makes a meal out of it, but it’s clearly not a dive. Any amount of laughing smileys won’t change that.
 

VeevaVee

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If you actually watch the video he clearly gets stamped on his right foot. You can argue that he makes a meal out of it, but it’s clearly not a dive. Any amount of laughing smileys won’t change that.
He made a bigger deal of it than Gomes
 

Treble

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I ask again, do you have any experience in any relevant sport that allows you to say that I’m talking nonsense?
And I'm telling you again: you are talking nonsense, because what you say contradicts common sense. Everybody related to football in some capacity knows that there are such things as running a team/player in the ground, experiencing fatigue, physical and/or mental, not being able to play with high intensity many games in a row. Even Klopp complained about the congested fixture list and Guardiola agreed with him recently, saying that it kills the players. There is also a reason why the PL has introduced a winter break. There is also a reason why both Fergie and Guardiola and most managers of top teams rotate players heavily. You need simple facts like that to reason and not fly in the face of common sense.
 

Treble

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Can’t you also say that those sides didn’t concede more against us because of luck as well? We missed several great chances against Sheffield United and Southampton.

Also those sides taking those chances doesn’t guarantee dropped points for this Liverpool team. The numbers are there to show Liverpool have strong powers of recovery in games.
Chelsea had at least 2 great chances in the dying minutes of the game. If you think that Liverpool will score every time they concede even with seconds remaining, then I can't help you. Sometimes it will be you who will concede late goals or not being able to come back in the game.
 

B20

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Things var didn't catch besides Atkinson manipulating an onside into offside to back up the original call.




 

amolbhatia50k

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I think they will, for all intents and purposes wrap up the title this coming weekend. I dont think a team with this sort of momentum (CL and then the league run) falls away. Their injury record is also usually fantastic.
 

Dave Smith

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So are you saying that if Chelsea weren't naive, if they defended better, if they had a better keeper, if Abraham had squared to Mount, if Mount had scored on his chance, and if Giroud had played instead of Batshuayi, then we would have lost that game, and therefore we should have lost it..?
Well yes. The chance reffered to were all clear cut chances that very poor decision making were to blame for the outcome not to be different. Also, owing to the number of Chelsea's chances and the number of chances Liverpool had in that match it is clear that Liverpool did not deserve to win that game and did so because Chelsea shot themselves in the foot, which imo is partly to do with them having an average age of about 12 atm.

lots of "IFS" in there.....get back to playing FM.
Not really. Chelsea created a number of great oppotunities thaf were not taken partly due to their inexperience. Not really a case of playing FM.

Considering that every replay shows it wasn’t a dive, why would anyone admit it?
Not all contact is a dive. Mane is very good at making minimal contact look like he has been poleaxed. That for most people means he is a diver as football is meant to be a contact sport. That incident at the weekend and the one against Leicester, which was even worse as his leg that gave way was the opposite to the one that got hit, are not really worth debating. If you feel contact like that constitutes a penalty then we will be getting a lot more penalties and may as well make the sport non contact.
 

Raw

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They remind me of City's 100 point season early on where they weren't playing at their very best but Sterling kept popping up with very late winners. At least I think it was that season.

They're gonna win it unfortunately, and that's not me being tongue in cheek and hoping to jinx it.
 

Gio

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If you actually watch the video he clearly gets stamped on his right foot. You can argue that he makes a meal out of it, but it’s clearly not a dive. Any amount of laughing smileys won’t change that.
Mane engineers the contact. He deliberately cuts across the defender, stops dead, drags his left leg around to hit the defender’s leg. Then tops it off with the theatrical fall. It’s a classic of the genre frankly.
 

christinaa

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Against you have to understand they don't called it wrong but clever play nowadays , every team do so.
I really don't care if they call it 'clever' play.
Just admit that it's cheating and dishonest.

........and also :
  • Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola has accused Liverpool's star forward Sadio Mane of diving.
 

LFCKop

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Things var didn't catch besides Atkinson manipulating an onside into offside to back up the original call.
Though I think it was a penalty (soft), I can understand why it was not given. Mane did make meal of it and considering his last penalties(soft), he was never going to get it unless someone chopped his legs. I am pretty sure if it was opposite i.e Villa player being fouled in similar fashion, Villa would have got the penalty.

Anyways the magnified image looks quite dodgy, like someone photoshoped it because villa player's boot and leg looks like morphed on Mane's leg. (blue smudge on Mane's socks)
 

Liver_bird

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I really don't care if they call it 'clever' play.
Just admit that it's cheating and dishonest.

........and also :
  • Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola has accused Liverpool's star forward Sadio Mane of diving.
Ironic considering how easy sterling goes down and Gundogan was booked for diving just the other week. But yeah manes a diver even though he was trod on . :lol:
 

PickledRed

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Interesting quote from John McGinn:

“They don’t give up, they keep going and they probably tired us out too much right at the end,” continued McGinn. “Chances were coming and we were trying to keep them at bay but the ball just keeps coming back at you. It was two sloppy goals from our point of view but teams like Liverpool do that to you, like Manchester City did [to Villa the previous week]. They just drain you mentally.”

While I am an advocate of stats-based analysis such as xG, it's very difficult to quantify what McGinn is alluding to here. There's no obvious metric to measure this stuff. It's telling that McGinn doesn't go near the well-trodden "lucky" nonsense that so many rival fans jump on. Liverpool win late regularly because opponents are worn down. It's that simple.
 

PickledRed

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I really don't care if they call it 'clever' play.
Just admit that it's cheating and dishonest.

........and also :
  • Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola has accused Liverpool's star forward Sadio Mane of diving.
Hold on a minute, Pep says Liverpool players dive?

This is final proof...

...he'd have no ulterior motivation to say such a thing other than to promote the purity of the sport.
 

PickledRed

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Mane engineers the contact. He deliberately cuts across the defender, stops dead, drags his left leg around to hit the defender’s leg. Then tops it off with the theatrical fall. It’s a classic of the genre frankly.
Not sure you can engineer a stamp.

It was mild, Mane was theatrical, but it wasn't a dive.
 

Gio

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Not sure you can engineer a stamp.

It was mild, Mane was theatrical, but it wasn't a dive.
Easy enough to engineer contact and a tangle of legs when you cut across a defender, come to a halt and wrap your other leg into the mix.
 

Josh 76

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Manchester United players ammonia attack at Anfield 1986
What's in store this time for the City bus.
 

christinaa

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Ironic considering how easy sterling goes down and Gundogan was booked for diving just the other week. But yeah manes a diver even though he was trod on . :lol:
Two wrongs don't make a right and it's not a laughing matter - it's dishonest cheating. :nono:
 

christinaa

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Hold on a minute, Pep says Liverpool players dive?

This is final proof...

...he'd have no ulterior motivation to say such a thing other than to promote the purity of the sport.
Don't over-react in all your purity. :lol:
 

PickledRed

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And why shouldn't we think of the children ?!
Of course, we should think of the children. However, you're being hysterical about Liverpool footballers because you don't like Liverpool. Diving isn't a Liverpool problem. Cheating isn't a Liverpool problem. The 'dark arts' aren't Liverpool's problem. These are pandemic issues across the whole spectrum of the sport yet you're steering your ire towards players who play for a rival. It's irrational, one-eyed and over the top.
 

Treble

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I think they will, for all intents and purposes wrap up the title this coming weekend. I dont think a team with this sort of momentum (CL and then the league run) falls away. Their injury record is also usually fantastic.
As United fans we should know that a title isn't won until it's won, both in positive terms (beating Newcastle to the title after being 12 pts behind) and negative terms (losing the title to City after being 8 pts clear with just 5-6 games to play). Liverpool are much stronger than Newcastle and also than United 2012. But City also are stronger than City 2012. I expect dramatic turns and twists, with Liverpool coming up short again. Their fantastic record with injuries won't last forever. There are situations, like with Gomes yesterday, when bad luck kicks in no matter how fit you are. Time will tell though. If they win the title they'll be worthy champions.
 

christinaa

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Of course, we should think of the children. However, you're being hysterical about Liverpool footballers because you don't like Liverpool. Diving isn't a Liverpool problem. Cheating isn't a Liverpool problem. The 'dark arts' aren't Liverpool's problem. These are pandemic issues across the whole spectrum of the sport yet you're steering your ire towards players who play for a rival. It's irrational, one-eyed and over the top.
Now you really have over-reacted and gone over the top!
And you've also become VERY boring.
So sorry for you and your ilk.
 

Canagel

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Ironic considering how easy sterling goes down and Gundogan was booked for diving just the other week. But yeah manes a diver even though he was trod on . :lol:
Starting the mind games early. He's afraid about Mane and wants to get inside his head before the match. But I don't think his defence can hold him out.