Looking back at the summer of 09. Did it signal the end of us being a top club?

[ron86]

Everyone knows Fergie papered over the cracks. If he had left in 09 I don't think we wouldve won a league since then. Every year up until van persie our signings were ok but no players who ever really got to the top of the game. We signed players we hoped would kick and while some did quite well, none of them became world class and the world class players in our squad had gotten old.

 

[Rood]

Just focusing on the Ronaldo summer ignores the big picture that Fergie had spent a lot in the previous years and been planning for his departure for a while

Berbatov (another British transfer record) came in the year before as Fergie hoped to integrate him before Ronaldo left - plus there was hefty fees paid for the likes of Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani the year before that

And yes Real Madrid spent big to try and compete with Barca but what good did it do them?
We went on to feature in 2 of the next 3 CL Finals without Ronaldo while Real were nowhere to be seen so it's pretty clear we were far stronger and it simply vindicated Fergie's stance on 'no value'

So it's a firm 'No' to the OP

 

[ron86]

No. United will always be a 'top club', we still won PL and reached CL finals without Ronaldo.

We may be a top club but we haven't been a top team for a long-time. There's professional footballers playing now who can't even remember the last time we won the league and weren't even born the last time we won the CL. They will see the likes of city and Chelsea as the big successful sides

 

[Highfather_24]

We could have bought creative players like Sneijder, D.Silva, A.Sanchez, Ribery etc. We could have bought strikers like D.Villa, Aguero, Benzema etc.

We didnt. There were definitely links to many young promising players, we just didnt get them. And it left us behind.

This was our midfield/attack at the time btw :

----Carrick/Fletch--Scholes/Giggs
Valencia----------------------------Nani/Park
-----------Rooney-----Berbatov

 

[BorisManUtd]

2009 we were best or 2nd best club in the world. But from that point until 2013 we were stagnating, players like Rio, Vidić, Evra, Carrick, Rooney getting older while we did not spend enough and won titles or were just behind champions (like 2010 and 2012) thanks to Fergie and few players. 2013/14 was logical as shocking as it was to us at the time and it wasn't bad only because of Moyes of course, that's clear by now.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I don't think so, United were still a very good side from 2009 to 2013, if Rooney hadn't have got injured in 2010, who knows what would have happened. In 2011, only lost to one of the best teams ever (who may have beaten every United side under Ferguson anyway). 2012 was disappointing but 2013 was good again and we were robbed against Real Madrid.

I think the big miss was Hazard in 2012, who was very close to signing for us but Fergie didn't fancy paying the agent fees I believe and went to Chelsea. If we sign Hazard then there is a star forward for the next 5 or 6 years. Kagawa was a good player but he didn't have that best talent of a generation level.

Van Persie's decline was also pretty sudden, Rooney's too but more expected (Ferguson expected as much and was willing to sell him).

 

[RedSky]

Id argue that the main issue we've had is recruitment. In both Managers and Players. We struggled for at least 15 years in recruitment.

The only player we got in from Sir Alex retiring to INEOS taking over that was true United quality has been Bruno. We've had some semi decent squad player signings but nobody who was truly elite other than Bruno.

Feel like with INEOS we've turned that around a little bit.

 

[Irwin99]

Another factor when you look into it was the defence going from conceding 22-29 goals each league season between 06-10 to 30+ and even 40+ in sir Alex’s last season. I attribute that to midfield issues as well. Jose first two seasons were the only time we’ve managed to concede less than 30 goals per season since.

It’s weird looking back at that period. We weren’t even playing great football for the most part but we were scoring 80+ goals a season and winning lots of comebacks or games where we’d just grind a win out. Elite mentality but the quality dipped from 08 onwards in my opinion.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

We got to the CL final 2 years later…

Valencia was excellent.

Yeah that’s not really what the OP is getting at though. We were still one of the biggest clubs in the world and one of the most successful (the latter due to Sir Alex) but selling the best player in the world and not replacing him properly really did show just how poorly we were being ran as a club.

Valencia was excellent but he wasn’t Ronaldo and Owen had good moments here but to allow the best player in the world leave, get a truck load of cash for him and only spend a fraction of it really was unforgivable, we were winning loads back then though so that meant the reaction wasn’t what it could have been.

 

[bringbackbebe]

I don't buy that. We had more than a year to plan for this given Ronnie wanted out the summer before. Could have secured targets well in advance to his eventual sale to Madrid. Obviously the landmark moment dates back to 2005 when the scum took over, but the "no value in the market" began in '09.

We couldn't spend it, the Glazers had us buckled. Fergie loved a record transfer in his time

There's a fair amount of retro fitting going on to what happened but I remember this distinctly. Below is an article from that period where SAF explicitly says that:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/sp...ex-happy-keeping-money-in-the-bank-76882.html

It wasn't that complicated back then. We had a good squad and we won plenty after Ronaldo left.

Spending Ronaldo money wasn't the issue - SAF leaving was. We spunked plenty on junk in the years to come.

 

[dinostar77]

We could have signed Robben and Sneijder that summer when Ronaldo went to Madrid, as they were being shown the door. I think it was a mistake not to. Obviously no one could replace Ronaldo, but prime Robben and prime Sneijder were great players.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Id argue that the main issue we've had is recruitment. In both Managers and Players. We struggled for at least 15 years in recruitment.

The only player we got in from Sir Alex retiring to INEOS taking over that was true United quality has been Bruno. We've had some semi decent squad player signings but nobody who was truly elite other than Bruno.

Feel like with INEOS we've turned that around a little bit.

I’ll only say INEOS have “turned it around” after we win a Premier League or a Champions League. Until then, I’ll list everything as another false dawn to avoid my own disappointment later (Far too many of them regarding us in the last decade).

 

[2 man midfield]

Just focusing on the Ronaldo summer ignores the big picture that Fergie had spent a lot in the previous years and been planning for his departure for a while

Berbatov (another British transfer record) came in the year before as Fergie hoped to integrate him before Ronaldo left - plus there was hefty fees paid for the likes of Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani the year before that

And yes Real Madrid spent big to try and compete with Barca but what good did it do them?
We went on to feature in 2 of the next 3 CL Finals without Ronaldo while Real were nowhere to be seen so it's pretty clear we were far stronger and it simply vindicated Fergie's stance on 'no value'

So it's a firm 'No' to the OP

I'd argue that the dominance Real had in the next few years was founded on that very window. Xabi Alonso, Ronaldo, Benzema, Arbeloa, that put them back at the top table. After that it started falling into place for them, ultimately culminating in 3 CL wins in a row under zidane.

 

[michelleOntaRio-Rio]

There's a fair amount of retro fitting going on to what happened but I remember this distinctly. Below is an article from that period where SAF explicitly says that:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/sp...ex-happy-keeping-money-in-the-bank-76882.html

It wasn't that complicated back then. We had a good squad and we won plenty after Ronaldo left.

Spending Ronaldo money wasn't the issue - SAF leaving was. We spunked plenty on junk in the years to come.

Seriously dude!! We’ve still won less league titles and CL’s since Ronnie left than we won while he was here.

 

[adexkola]

I maintain that the angst around the 2009 transfer period is mostly transfer muppet driven. Yes I know, "haha Valencia", but he was an excellent player for us for a few years.

The damage was done in 2012/2013.

RVN was a great signing who won us the league however it was a lazy fix that covered a lot of deficiencies in the squad. Moyes was not the right pick, however the 7th place finish was not all due to him.

Also, more thought should have been put into decentralizing control in Fergie's final years.

Mostly hindsight, but it goes without saying that no matter the manager it would have been a temporary drop-off at least from the great man. How did we compensate for that? Not at all.

 

[Hound Dog]

There's a fair amount of retro fitting going on to what happened but I remember this distinctly. Below is an article from that period where SAF explicitly says that:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/sp...ex-happy-keeping-money-in-the-bank-76882.html

It wasn't that complicated back then. We had a good squad and we won plenty after Ronaldo left.

Spending Ronaldo money wasn't the issue - SAF leaving was. We spunked plenty on junk in the years to come.

No, there is no retro fitting, we thought he was lying back then and we still think that now.

Normal clubs, when winning a buckload of things, tend to strengthen, not weaken. If the roles were reversed in 2009, and it was Man United buying Ronaldo from Real Madrid, Real would have not only spent the received fre but 50+ million (2009 million, not 2026) on top of that.

Yet again, they werent taken over through a leveraged buyout...

 

[matherto]

There's a fair amount of retro fitting going on to what happened but I remember this distinctly. Below is an article from that period where SAF explicitly says that:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/sp...ex-happy-keeping-money-in-the-bank-76882.html

It wasn't that complicated back then. We had a good squad and we won plenty after Ronaldo left.

Spending Ronaldo money wasn't the issue - SAF leaving was. We spunked plenty on junk in the years to come.

We spunked far less before SAF left.

SAF sadly did the Glazers bidding and kept shtum about not being able to spend as much.

It's pretty clear they knew there'd be mutiny from the fans if they kept the shackles on spending and we also didn't have SAF to perform miracles so they opened up the checkbook, and that was only after 2013 summer was an absolute shambles.

If you can't objectively look at the quality of the 2008 team and then look at the quality of incomings and outgoings to see where we were in 2013 when SAF left and not notice the massive drop off then I dunno what to say.

 

[lex talionis]

I'm pretty sure we did not stop winning PL trophies after 09. As for not winning the other two CL trophies after 09 the opponent has to be considered -- Barcelona. And not just Barcelona, but "prime Barcelona", generally lauded as the greatest club football side of all time.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

Looking back yes an absolute disaster of a window that we let slide because of our absolute faith in Sir Alex. Valencia went on to be a very good player for us of course, but as a replacement for Ronaldo was just laughable.

The summer of 2010 was probably worse? Smalling, Chicharito, Bebe and Lindegaard, good grief. That type of window today would have us marching in the streets.

Aside from Bebe they were actually all good players and all played a role in us winning trophies. Not moves that made us titans, but actually really shrewd signings. It's just that we didn't also bolster our squad with proper quality at the same time

I can't remember exactly when Fergie made his "no value in the market" comment, but whenever it was it was too early. There were great players available when we were mostly looking for punts that might work out. His genius meant that sometimes they did, but the squad did suffer overall in terms of quality

 

[Rood]

I'd argue that the dominance Real had in the next few years was founded on that very window. Xabi Alonso, Ronaldo, Benzema, Arbeloa, that put them back at the top table. After that it started falling into place for them, ultimately culminating in 3 CL wins in a row under zidane.

Well it took them 5 years to reach a CL final after that window

Meanwhile we were in 2 of the next 3 so it just doesn't compute with me that a team that's winning titles and reaching CL finals is apparently on the decline

 

[ROFLUTION]

I think we definitely missed out on a few attackers that if we'd been able to secure, or if the Glazers weren't hindering us, would have meant for a smoother transition. Benzema, hazard, Ribery, Sneijder, aguero, Silva, Lewandowski, they were all on the move at this time. Instead we went into 2011/12 with Rooney, Hernandez and welbeck, before opportunistically signing a 29 year van persie the following season for one last title push.

The Fergie of old loved adding firepower from a position of strength. But now we were shunning the next generation of world class players because there was no "value" in the market. £32m for eden Hazard would've been a steal looking back. Instead we preferred to spend £18m on Ashley young, because that was better value? You can't tell me the Glazers didn't have a hand in that, despite what Fergie says.

It's not as if we even spent money elsewhere. We neglected midfield even more so, as Sir Alex got a bit too sentimental in trusting Scholes and Giggs until they were 40, when really they should've been bit part players by then. Scholes coming out of retirement rather than spend some money on a midfielder was a glaring sign. He also trusted fletcher, Hargreaves and Anderson far too much when they all had issues.

Basically, feck the Glazers for making the greatest boss of all time spend the last few years of his tenure managing us with his hands tied behind his back. If they'd never darkened our door, I've got no doubt that we'd have a couple more champions league to our name.

It’s a bit interesting to think what would have become of Fergie, had they strengthened us and used a bigger transferbudget.

No doubt Fergie retired while he could still be on top, but had he had a stronger new generation of world class players, maybe he would’ve stayed a couple of more years, as it would be easier to keep away competition from City.

He retired at the right time for his legacy, and I think he looked a lot at Cantona’s way of retiring on top.

 

[Tyrion]

We sold Ronaldo for €94 million and replaced him with Antonio Valencia for €18 million. Our other reinforcements included a finished Michael Owen on a free transfer and Gabriel Obertan for €4million and Mame Diouf for €5 million meaning none of the Ronaldo money was invested back into a squad that badly needed refreshing to compete with the likes of Peps Barcelona.

Meanwhile Madrid not only took our balon dor winner they also brought in Brazilian superstar Kaka for €67million, hot prospect Benzema for €35million and one of the Premier leagues elite midfielders Xabi Alonso taking their total spend to over €200 million.

Feels quite insane looking back that Fergie was ok with this. He watched us go from breaking records for the likes of Rio and Rooney to penny pinching and signing players from Wigan (no offense to Valencia) while the European giants closed this gap significantly on us and we no longer had one of the strongest teams in Europe.

What was the mood like on here at the time? We were still the best team in England and CL finalists but did you all see the writing on the wall for our demise during this time?

The mood here was likely apocalyptic. That was the start of the green and gold campaign as far as I recall.

 

[2 man midfield]

Well it took them 5 years to reach a CL final after that window

Meanwhile we were in 2 of the next 3 so it just doesn't compute with me that a team that's winning titles and reaching CL finals is apparently on the decline

1 of the next 2. Ronaldo was still here when we made the final in 09.

We were absolutely on the decline, the reason we got to the final in 2011 was because of a pretty easy route. It was only really Chelsea that gave me any worries until the final. We had Schalke in the semi and won 6-1 with Darron Gibson in midfield. To me that says more about sir Alex and his ability to perform miracles than it does our team.

 

[golden_blunder]

We replaced the best player in the world with the best player in Wigan.

So much disrespect here for Valencia, he was a very solid signing and absolutely brilliant before injury. Considering his longevity, and importance to the team, I thought he was a brilliant buy. The team looked unbalanced when he didn’t play.

Re the others that Madrid signed mentioned in the OP, United did sound out Benzema too but he was bound for Madrid.

 

[Irwin99]

I'm pretty sure we did not stop winning PL trophies after 09. As for not winning the other two CL trophies after 09 the opponent has to be considered -- Barcelona. And not just Barcelona, but "prime Barcelona", generally lauded as the greatest club football side of all time.

I think that’s because the side was so good that it could deteriorate and still compete. Things did start to decline though. There were a lot of warning signs that simply weren’t there in 06-08/09.

 

[lex talionis]

I think that’s because the side was so good that it could deteriorate and still compete. Things did start to decline though. There were a lot of warning signs that simply weren’t there in 06-08/09.

There's no doubt of course that United were in decline after 2013, but I'm not sure it's fair to describe us as in decline between 09 and 13. I can see why it's tempting to do so as had last won a CL title in 08 but steepness of our decline between 09 and 13 was fairly gentle, almost negligible, compared to our steep decline after 13.

 

[Rood]

1 of the next 2. Ronaldo was still here when we made the final in 09.

We were absolutely on the decline, the reason we got to the final in 2011 was because of a pretty easy route. It was only really Chelsea that gave me any worries until the final. We had Schalke in the semi and won 6-1 with Darron Gibson in midfield. To me that says more about sir Alex and his ability to perform miracles than it does our team.

Ah ye - my mistake

But for me it's an insult to a brilliant United team that won 2 PL and reached a CL final to call it a team on decline

The decline only started the day Fergie (and Gill) left as far as I'm concerned

 

[Godfather]

We got to the CL final 2 years later…

Valencia was excellent.

He wasn't "excellent" and of course no proper replacement for Ronaldo. He was a brilliant athlete and had a decent right foot. Had a few good seasons for us too but that summer was a huge issue and started a trend of replacing players with worse ones

 

[Reds Under The Bed]

Valencia was a decent player who proved a solid servant but him being the stand out signing from our rebuild after selling Ronaldo says it all really in terms of diminishing expectations

 

[2 man midfield]

Ah ye - my mistake

But for me it's an insult to a brilliant United team that won 2 PL and reached a CL final to call it a team on decline

The decline only started the day Fergie (and Gill) left as far as I'm concerned

Only in decline in the sense that our best players were still the same spine of players as in 08, just five years older and not as good. Rooney wasn't anywhere near the player he was in 08 in 2013 for instance. Rio was having his games managed due to his back problems and age, Vidic wasn't the same after his injury, evra didn't have the legs to get back anymore.

Like I said, I blame the glazers for this. Our new signings hadn't taken the baton like they should've done, meaning we still had to rely on these same players. Perhaps if we'd spent on genuine quality up and comers like Hazard and aguero instead of cheap options, this wouldn't have been the case.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

He wasn't "excellent" and of course no proper replacement for Ronaldo. He was a brilliant athlete and had a decent right foot. Had a few good seasons for us too but that summer was a huge issue and started a trend of replacing players with worse ones

I don’t know why people focus on Valencia and not Obertan and Owen though. Valencia was a great signing for the price that was paid and the sort of smart signing that was key to United’s success under Ferguson, emerging player from a smaller team ready to make the step up. Owen was the stingy signing for free really when they could have bought a quality midfielder or another forward.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Valencia always takes a critical battering from certain supporters when the 09 summer transfer window is brought up but what about signing fecking injury prone scouse brochure boy Owen and giving him the number 7 shirt in the process.

 

[2 man midfield]

Valencia always takes a critical battering from certain supporters when the 09 summer transfer window is brought up but what about signing fecking injury prone scouse brochure boy Owen and giving him the number 7 shirt in the process.

Valencia was a great signing, and a top class winger for 3 years until he got a bad injury, bulked up too much and was never the same again. Taught himself how to defend though and became a solid right back instead, so credit to him there.

I think he's just seen as a bit of a poster boy for what that summer represented - a shift from the flair and dominance of before, to hard graft and value for money taking priority.

 

[Offside]

The midfield situation at the club was bizarre.

In 2008 the midfield was: Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson, Hargreaves, Carrick. That’s a great mix of youth (including the golden boy) experience, depth and variety of quality.

In 2011 the midfield was: aged Scholes, illness ridden Fletcher, overweight Anderson who clearly wasn’t going to fulfil his potential, injury ridden Hargreaves and Carrick. By 2013 the only change to the above was an incredibly average Cleverley in for Hargreaves. No central midfield signing from 2007 until Fellaini in 2013.

When you consider the fact we got beaten by Barca twice where they completely mugged us off in midfield, it’s completely ridiculous how badly neglected it was back then and everybody was saying it at the time and was obsessed with a midfield signing that never came. City had a better midfield than us within a year or two of the takeover when they got Barry, Milner and Toure.

 

[Tyrion]

I think that’s because the side was so good that it could deteriorate and still compete. Things did start to decline though. There were a lot of warning signs that simply weren’t there in 06-08/09.

Yep. We went from the best team in Europe to one of the best in England. That was a decline. It was inevitable as no-one is the best for long but I dont think the club tried particularly hard to fight that decline.

 

[manutddjw]

I think we had to make a choice, either have a squad with depth that was capable of winning the league or have a thin squad that had top players. The Glazer debt made it that we had a limited budget that meant we either bought one top player or 2-3 decent ones or at least ones with potential.

I also don’t think Sir Alex appreciated how good he was. He could win with the squad he had, but I don’t think even if we got Mourinho or Pep to replace him, they would’ve won with the squad. In Sir Alex’s mind he rebuilt the squad when he left. He had De Gea in his early 20’s, got jones, smalling and Evans to replace vidic and Rio, had the twins (Rafael was a very good player for us), bought Kagawa who was young, welbeck and then bought Zaha and Powell who if you read Sir Alex’s book he seemed absolutely certain was going to be a top player.

 

[Kelly15]

No. Our downfall was losing SAf and David Gill in 2013. Replacing them with Moyes and Woodward. Two people so out of their depth. It it was shocking to hear them speak. We are Disney land from Woodward. And we are shit from moyes the soul crusher. We did need to bring in some new players but it was all set up for that by SAF. Rooney was set to be sold. We could of did a normal SAF transfer window and brough in 3 players and kept going. If Moyes has the possibility of bringing in Kroos then SAF could of done the same and brought in whoever he wanted and more.

 

[Godfather]

I don’t know why people focus on Valencia and not Obertan and Owen though. Valencia was a great signing for the price that was paid and the sort of smart signing that was key to United’s success under Ferguson, emerging player from a smaller team ready to make the step up. Owen was the stingy signing for free really when they could have bought a quality midfielder or another forward.

Don't get me wrong. Obertan and Owen were complete disaster signings. Valencia was a good one (not excellent). The window wasn't close to good enough overall though.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Seriously dude!! We’ve still won less league titles and CL’s since Ronnie left than we won while he was here.

Did you actually watch football back then or are you just summarizing history stats from AI? Let me help you:
- We won 10-11 and 12-13 PL
- We almost won 11-12, which we lost due to Aguero's last min goal AND almost won 09-10 which went literally till the last day
- We scored more goals in 3 of those 4 years than anytime when Ronaldo was with us.
- We were clearly the best team in the league during that period. The only team I'd say equal to/stronger than us from 2005-2013 was Mourinho's Chelsea team in the 2005-06 season which was like a machine.

The difference was NOT Ronaldo. It was SAF.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I remember being gutted but excited in a way. I was thinking we would sign Villa to make up for the goals and Ribery to make up for the creativity.

Obertan and Owen didn't quite scratch that itch for me.

I thought Valencia was outstanding for a few seasons mind.