Lord of the Rings

DatIrishFella

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Is there? I thought in general LOTR book readers tend to enjoy the films? Maybe not the hardcore ones I suppose... but I think its weird - I don't see why people just don't treat them as two completely seperate works of art (obviously there's a limit to this, but they are completely different art forms).

Personally - I've read all 3 books and I love them in a completely seperate way to my love for the films - which are 3 of my favourite films of all time.
Well, I can't paint everyone with the same brush but it seems to be the majority consensus, from my perspective anyway.
 

Kristjan

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I've read the books in 3 different languages, read them again every other year or so as well.
I love the films as well.
 

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The divide between avid book readers and fans of the films is crazy. I absolutely adore the trilogy yet ask any ardent fan of the books and they'll tell you the films a terrible.

That's why I tend to avoid them folk. When an adaptation hits the big screen, or little, avoid them like the plague.
Agreed, I've come across a lot of those sorts too. The comparison of a film to a book is always flawed. Comparing two utterly completely different mediums, using different methods of storytelling and plot movements simply doesn't make sense. It's like saying a radio program is better than a TV show.
 

Revan

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The divide between avid book readers and fans of the films is crazy. I absolutely adore the trilogy yet ask any ardent fan of the books and they'll tell you the films a terrible.

That's why I tend to avoid them folk. When an adaptation hits the big screen, or little, avoid them like the plague.
The funny thing is that Lord of The Rings adaptation is undoubdetly the best adaptation of any fantasy or sci-fi books (the genre is quite similar IMO). As good as Game of Thrones for example is, The Lord of The Rings movies are just better.

I also don't think that the majority of LOTR book readers say that the movies were shit. It's more the hard core say so for whatever stupid reasons they might have (like Tom Bombadil who is a terciary character at best in the books didn't show in the movies or any other nonsense reason). The majority enjoys both movies and the books.
 

DatIrishFella

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The funny thing is that Lord of The Rings adaptation is undoubdetly the best adaptation of any fantasy or sci-fi books (the genre is quite similar IMO). As good as Game of Thrones for example is, The Lord of The Rings movies are just better.

I also don't think that the majority of LOTR book readers say that the movies were shit. It's more the hard core say so for whatever stupid reasons they might have (like Tom Bombadil who is a terciary character at best in the books didn't show in the movies or any other nonsense reason). The majority enjoys both movies and the books.
Well, I haven't read the either the LOTR or ASOIAF, so I can't argue what's the truer adaptation, but in terms of sheer quality from someone who obviously went in blind to both GoT & LoTR, Thrones is much better, to me, anyway.

Guess it depends on what kind of fantasy you prefer.
 

One Night Only

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I read this title as "Lord of the Rigs" thinking it was going to be about some new TV show about hauling stuff.
 

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The divide between avid book readers and fans of the films is crazy. I absolutely adore the trilogy yet ask any ardent fan of the books and they'll tell you the films a terrible.

That's why I tend to avoid them folk. When an adaptation hits the big screen, or little, avoid them like the plague.
I've read the books numerous times, loved them and loved the movies as well. One of best examples of adapting a novel for film I can think of.
 

Globule

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I think the problem is that if you genuinely love the books of something, the movie adaptation is never going to live up to your expectations. You're going into the movie with the mindset of 'this better be good' rather than just watching from a clean slate. I read the books after watching the movies and I think that's the best way. The books add more depth to the story you already know, whereas movies can only ever trim the 'fat' - the problem with that is that hardcore fans won't agree with what that 'fat' is.
 

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I'm a big fan of the books and so is my Dad, we both love the films.

I really can't imagine why any fan of the book could reasonably say the films are terrible.
 

duffer

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Damn. :lol:

Why the heck does the Tolkien estate absolutely detest the films then?
Money.

They are currently trying to sue Warner Bros as they say they are owed money from licensing deals and whatnot. If Warner Bros coughed up, I'd imagine their view on more films would be very different.

It's easier and a nice dig at Warner Bros to say the films were shit though.
 

Lu Tze

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He is of the order Maia, but he is a Wizard and their order is called Istari. Melian is an example of Maia, they are the direct helpers for Valar who aided in the creation of Arda. Balrogs are the order of Maia and they aided Melkor/Morgoth to destroy and plunder. Tolkien makes a distinction between Maia and Istari because the wizards do not make an appearance in the story until Sauron the wicked, who is also a Maia has to be defeated. I think the distinction is made because of the difference in timelines.
To be fair, Gandalf is of the Maiar and a member of the Istari at the same time, they're not exclusive. It's certainly accurate to call him a Maia. And a Wizard. And a member of the Istari! I was under the impression the distinction was made because the Istari were a semi-independent order of Maia dispatched by the Valar/Eru to indirectly oppose Sauron's power in ME.

And the Eagles are smart birds. They are servants of Manwe, but are not Maia.
 
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fishfingers15

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To be fair, Gandalf is of the Maiar and a member of the Istari at the same time, they're not exclusive. It's certainly accurate to call him a Maia. And a Wizard. And a member of the Istari! I was under the impression the distinction was made because the Istari were a semi-independent order of Maia dispatched by the Valar/Eru to indirectly oppose Sauron's power in ME.

And the Eagles are smart birds. They are servants of Manwe, but are not Maia.
I agree on all points. In my first post, I should have said, he is Istari, but also Maia. The second point is also right, Istari are Maia, but specifically dispatched to oppose Sauron in the Middle earth.
 

2cents

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The only way Silmarillion is on a screen of any sort is if HBO acquires the right and makes it into a serial of epic proportions.
That would be unreal. So much material to work with, especially if they could extend it into the Second Age to include the story of Numenor, the rise of Sauron, and the Last Alliance.

One major problem would be character development - the characters in The Silmarillion are even more one-dimensional than in LOTR, they would require a lot of work. There's no comedy relief at all in The Silmarillion in the way the Hobbits and to a lesser extent the Dwarves provided it in LOTR.
 

fishfingers15

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That would be unreal. So much material to work with, especially if they could extend it into the Second Age to include the story of Numenor, the rise of Sauron, and the Last Alliance.

One major problem would be character development - the characters in The Silmarillion are even more one-dimensional than in LOTR, they would require a lot of work. There's no comedy relief at all in The Silmarillion in the way the Hobbits and to a lesser extent the Dwarves provided it in LOTR.
Of course, that's a great point. Silmarillion has always been a condensed summary of about 15 different books. Directors and play writers will have to work a lot of additional stuff to put that content as a serial/movie.
 

RedSky

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That would be unreal. So much material to work with, especially if they could extend it into the Second Age to include the story of Numenor, the rise of Sauron, and the Last Alliance.

One major problem would be character development - the characters in The Silmarillion are even more one-dimensional than in LOTR, they would require a lot of work. There's no comedy relief at all in The Silmarillion in the way the Hobbits and to a lesser extent the Dwarves provided it in LOTR.
You don't need comedy relief though. Game of Thrones works so well because there isn't any of that childish Jackson bullshit, it's just pure adult drama and the comedy comes from witty lines and moments rather than anything silly.

I think the lack of content would surely make things much easier from a story telling perspective as they can develop the characters however they like knowing how the story develops in the long run.
 

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The Lay of Leithian and the Children of Hurin could make for very good films, I'm not so sure about the rest of it.

However, a big TV adaptation is definitely the way to go if you want to film the whole thing.
 

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I will literally cry tears of happiness if a television series/ HBO Series comes out about other Tolkien fantasies. I've read the majority of Silmarillian, and the Hobbit and LOTR many times. Now I think I'll probably reread the Silmarillian after reading all this. I even studied a course on Tolkien and it really all is truly fascinating.
 

fishfingers15

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:lol: Where'd you get that?

(Edit): anything comparable for Ungoliant/Shelob?
Mostly fan art from Deviantart. Ungoliant is one of her kind, there's no comparison unfortunately. There are pictures with Melkor but at that time, Melkor was still a shape shifter, so it wouldn't be true enough.
 

2cents

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This thread is making me want to read them all again, but I've a load of stuff to do right now :nervous:
 

BD

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Watched these films for pretty much the first time this week. I've seen them in parts over the years, and knew the story generally and the cool scenes, but there was a lot I didn't really know.

Anyway, I watched the 3 of them over 5 sittings, and I was very impressed. I'm not sure what fans of the books think of the films, but I really enjoyed them. The only real issue I had was Gimli's 'humour' took away from quite a lot of the scenes.

I used to think people who watched the extended editions were mental (The Return of the King is already over 3 hours, how could you want another hour on top of that), but I'm quite tempted to watch them the next time I feel up for going through these. Do they add much, or is it all just filler that's not too interesting?
 

AaronRedDevil

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I didn't know this thread existed. My Friend and I watch this once or twice a year. Just a rare trilogy of masterpiece.
 

esmufc07

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I’ve only ever watched through them all once but the Ghost people just coming to save the day in the last film really pissed me off. Just a cop out so I’ve never had any interest in going back to them. Tried reading the books but it’s so slow.
 

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The only real issue I had was Gimli's 'humour' took away from quite a lot of the scenes.
Turning Gimli into a wacky comic relief character is one of the worst things about the films. In the books he is a much more serious and dignified person.

The extended editions are worth it if you are a LotR fan. They add some clarity, explain certain things - like what happened to Saruman - but they do require a tremendous stamina.
 

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I’ve only ever watched through them all once but the Ghost people just coming to save the day in the last film really pissed me off. Just a cop out so I’ve never had any interest in going back to them. Tried reading the books but it’s so slow.
Spoiler: in the books the ghost people only help taking back the ports south of Minas Tirith so Aragorn and co. then can lead the people living there to help out with the siege.
 

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The 4k versions are out in a couple of weeks, but The Two Towers is available now in 4k on iTunes. I don't think the others have dropped yet. It's a big improvement, but some of the effects look bad and there's a couple of issues with HDR (especially where Saruman/Gandalf presents himself in the forest).
 

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Watched in the first lockdown over 8 sittings. Loved it as I always do. But it’s the first time I’ve split each movie rather than doing a 3 hour slog. Highly recommend.
 

altodevil

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I’ve only ever watched through them all once but the Ghost people just coming to save the day in the last film really pissed me off. Just a cop out so I’ve never had any interest in going back to them. Tried reading the books but it’s so slow.
Always knew you were an odd one
 

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Watched these films for pretty much the first time this week. I've seen them in parts over the years, and knew the story generally and the cool scenes, but there was a lot I didn't really know.

Anyway, I watched the 3 of them over 5 sittings, and I was very impressed. I'm not sure what fans of the books think of the films, but I really enjoyed them. The only real issue I had was Gimli's 'humour' took away from quite a lot of the scenes.

I used to think people who watched the extended editions were mental (The Return of the King is already over 3 hours, how could you want another hour on top of that), but I'm quite tempted to watch them the next time I feel up for going through these. Do they add much, or is it all just filler that's not too interesting?
Here's the abridged version of the summary of the additional material. According to ultra-LOTR fans, all of the extra material is 'stuff from the books', per posts like the below (note the qualifier: '...if you are a LotR fan.'

Turning Gimli into a wacky comic relief character is one of the worst things about the films. In the books he is a much more serious and dignified person.

The extended editions are worth it if you are a LotR fan. They add some clarity, explain certain things - like what happened to Saruman - but they do require a tremendous stamina.
Spoiler: in the books the ghost people only help taking back the ports south of Minas Tirith so Aragorn and co. then can lead the people living there to help out with the siege.
That's pretty well-indicated in the movie, as well, no? It's immediately made clear they won't be used any further.
 

BD

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Turning Gimli into a wacky comic relief character is one of the worst things about the films. In the books he is a much more serious and dignified person.

The extended editions are worth it if you are a LotR fan. They add some clarity, explain certain things - like what happened to Saruman - but they do require a tremendous stamina.
Here's the abridged version of the summary of the additional material. According to ultra-LOTR fans, all of the extra material is 'stuff from the books', per posts like the below (note the qualifier: '...if you are a LotR fan.'





That's pretty well-indicated in the movie, as well, no? It's immediately made clear they won't be used any further.
Not sure I'd call myself a fan just yet, but they were very good and I'm thinking of reading the books in a few months, when the story isn't so fresh in my mind. Stamina shouldn't be an issue since I watched the 'normal' 3 over 5 sittings, so I'd just do the extended ones over 6 or 7 sittings I suppose.
 

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Not sure I'd call myself a fan just yet, but they were very good and I'm thinking of reading the books in a few months, when the story isn't so fresh in my mind. Stamina shouldn't be an issue since I watched the 'normal' 3 over 5 sittings, so I'd just do the extended ones over 6 or 7 sittings I suppose.
Yeah, essentially like Siorac explained, according to SUUUPER-LotR fans*, the additional material is 'stuff from the books.'

Movie-wise, 'the additional stuff' flows very naturally and doesn't make the whole thing long and weird like some 'directors-cuts' do. It's very well done.

*I'm talking people who have all the books plus The Silmarillion memorized and who've named their pets after obscure characters.
 

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That's pretty well-indicated in the movie, as well, no? It's immediately made clear they won't be used any further.
I have never read the books, but one of the criticisms I have heard from book fans about the movies is that, in the book, the ghost army never was able to fight, it only frightened the army in the ships enough so that they fled and never reached Minas Tirith.

However, the ghost army was then released and also never fought at Minas Tirith, unlike in the movie where they basically saved everyone from destruction. Instead, again, not sure of the details as I have never read the books, the ghost army forcing the army in the ships to flee actually ending up allowing Aragon to bring an army from Gondor to fight at Minas Tirith by way of the ships that were abandoned.
 

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Here's the abridged version of the summary of the additional material. According to ultra-LOTR fans, all of the extra material is 'stuff from the books', per posts like the below (note the qualifier: '...if you are a LotR fan.'





That's pretty well-indicated in the movie, as well, no? It's immediately made clear they won't be used any further.
In the books the dead men are pitch black shadows and the journey through the mountains to summon them terrifies Aragorn's companions. His fearlessness alone drives them on. When they emerge from the southern side they pass by a huge stone that "fell from the sky". It's never referred to again but that little detail always fascinated me.
 

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I have never read the books, but one of the criticisms I have heard from book fans about the movies is that, in the book, the ghost army never was able to fight, it only frightened the army in the ships enough so that they fled and never reached Minas Tirith.

However, the ghost army was then released and also never fought at Minas Tirith, unlike in the movie where they basically saved everyone from destruction. Instead, again, not sure of the details as I have never read the books, the ghost army forcing the army in the ships to flee actually ending up allowing Aragon to bring an army from Gondor to fight at Minas Tirith by way of the ships that were abandoned.
From what I remember that’s pretty accurate. The Dead army help Aragorn intercept the corsairs coming up in river from Harad, then it’s job done for them. Aragorn then sails up the river to the battle with some of the southern lords of Gondor and surprises the feck out of everyone.

(edit) also, as above, the chapter where Gimli, Legolas and Aragorn recount their journey through the mountains is really fecking great.
 

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I have never read the books, but one of the criticisms I have heard from book fans about the movies is that, in the book, the ghost army never was able to fight, it only frightened the army in the ships enough so that they fled and never reached Minas Tirith.

However, the ghost army was then released and also never fought at Minas Tirith, unlike in the movie where they basically saved everyone from destruction. Instead, again, not sure of the details as I have never read the books, the ghost army forcing the army in the ships to flee actually ending up allowing Aragon to bring an army from Gondor to fight at Minas Tirith by way of the ships that were abandoned.
That's exactly how it is in the books, yes. It's a lot more impactful that Sauron's main army is defeated by men, ordinary men for the most part.