"Lower quality foreign players" transfers will be blocked

rcoobc

Not as crap as eferyone thinks
Joined
Jul 28, 2010
Messages
40,637
Location
C-137
Why would that be the case? Evra had seemingly played at least 5 times for France before his move, Vidic in double figures. Ronaldo would have been the one of those 3 that hadn't made a senior international appearance yet but, as always, I'm sure there would be exceptions.

For instance, we bought Foyth 3 years ago after he had a grand total of 9 senior appearances in Argentina and 0 with the senior national team.

I personally don't see a need to change the current system but I think people need to move a little beyond the hyperbole and Brexit rhetoric and actually read the article in question, where he mentions the ability (in theory) to get more African and South American players for instance.
i think you’re wrong on all counts here. consider wage and transfer fee inflation and they all qualify wouldn’t they?

vidic would qualify 100% i think because he was a full international when we signed him. ronaldo would be at least a £40m transfer today.
Well it depends how you look at it

Would Ronaldo have qualified automatically? No. Would Evra or Vidic.. maybe, I'm not sure what percentage of games they played before joining us. Maybe enough. Not sure.

Would they get though on appeal. Probably. Like the foyth example the big clubs are able to sign these players without too much issue


the applicant must be joining a club in the premier league or football league;
the applicant must have participated in a minimum set percentage of their home country’s senior competitive international matches during the two years (or one year if under 21) preceding the date of application. the percentage is based upon the following:
international team ranked 1-10, must have appeared in 30% of matches;
international team ranked 11-20, must have appeared in 45% of matches;
international team ranked 21-30, must have appeared in 60% of matches; and
international team tanked 31-50, must have appeared in 75% of matches.
the rankings above are based on the official fifa world rankings.

if a player fails to meet the above fa requirements for automatic endorsement, the football club can appeal under the fa appeals process to the exceptions panel. the criteria for the exceptions panel is split into ‘objective criteria’ and ‘subjective criteria
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
98,608
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Well it depends how you look at it

Would Ronaldo have qualified automatically? No. Would Evra or Vidic.. maybe, I'm not sure what percentage of games they played before joining us. Maybe enough. Not sure.

Would they get though on appeal. Probably. Like the foyth example the big clubs are able to sign these players without too much issue


the applicant must be joining a club in the premier league or football league;
the applicant must have participated in a minimum set percentage of their home country’s senior competitive international matches during the two years (or one year if under 21) preceding the date of application. the percentage is based upon the following:
international team ranked 1-10, must have appeared in 30% of matches;
international team ranked 11-20, must have appeared in 45% of matches;
international team ranked 21-30, must have appeared in 60% of matches; and
international team tanked 31-50, must have appeared in 75% of matches.
the rankings above are based on the official fifa world rankings.

if a player fails to meet the above fa requirements for automatic endorsement, the football club can appeal under the fa appeals process to the exceptions panel. the criteria for the exceptions panel is split into ‘objective criteria’ and ‘subjective criteria
Foyth joined on a Polish passport
 

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
7,223
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
:lol: They were on Portuguese passports, they have dual passports
FFS, is there no corner of the planet the Europeans didn't get their grubby little hands on!

Junior Hoilett is a good example. About 30 appearances in the German second division was grounds for him to appeal and get a work permit.

Deandre Yedlin another example of a successful appeal.

Joao Pedro too. Basically the list goes on and on.
Here we go, somebody with clearly more knowledge than me on this issue. :D
 

africanspur

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
7,223
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
My understanding is that the rules have to change because of Brexit. The current system cannot continue.

It's already difficult for PL to get a work permits etc for young talented SA players, for example. This will extend that difficult to all EU players.

I can only see this as a bad thing. If the PL clubs can only sign established international players it will hurt the league imo.
I know they have to change, I was just saying that personally I didn't necessarily mind the old system.

I think Clarke's point in the article (whether he's telling the truth or not is another matter) is it would become easier to sign players from SA/Africa than it currently is. From a selfish point of view, I'd say the majority of the world's best players at the moment come from European countries so I'd rather be able to sign young Europeans (or has been made exceedingly clear to be by @golden_blunder, young SAs with European passports :D) than I would players from Africa.

Having read the article and through this thread, the mismatch seems quite drastic, I wonder if people have actually read through it?
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
2,311
Supports
Chelsea
Well it depends how you look at it

Would Ronaldo have qualified automatically? No. Would Evra or Vidic.. maybe, I'm not sure what percentage of games they played before joining us. Maybe enough. Not sure.

Would they get though on appeal. Probably. Like the foyth example the big clubs are able to sign these players without too much issue


the applicant must be joining a club in the premier league or football league;
the applicant must have participated in a minimum set percentage of their home country’s senior competitive international matches during the two years (or one year if under 21) preceding the date of application. the percentage is based upon the following:
international team ranked 1-10, must have appeared in 30% of matches;
international team ranked 11-20, must have appeared in 45% of matches;
international team ranked 21-30, must have appeared in 60% of matches; and
international team tanked 31-50, must have appeared in 75% of matches.
the rankings above are based on the official fifa world rankings.

if a player fails to meet the above fa requirements for automatic endorsement, the football club can appeal under the fa appeals process to the exceptions panel. the criteria for the exceptions panel is split into ‘objective criteria’ and ‘subjective criteria
This is the current rules, they haven't established new ones yet which is the point of the article.

From the look of it the premier league want to be able to pretty much buy whoever they want and I expect they'll mainly win this battle ultimately, or they'll be a compromise deal so they can buy whoever they want from anywhere in the world but squads and or teams will have some home developed quota.

I expect we'll see a lot more South American and African players coming to the premier league ultimately.

https://www.skysports.com/transfer/...er-league-clubs-over-january-foreign-signings
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
11,092
So irish players would struggle to get a work permit to play in England ? I doubt they can make special arrangements for them ?
 

limerickcitykid

There once was a kid from Toronto...
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
13,364
Location
East end / Oot and aboot
So irish players would struggle to get a work permit to play in England ? I doubt they can make special arrangements for them ?
As classical mechanic says, there already are special arrangement for us which predates the EU and will continue after Brexit. Irish don’t need work permits to work in the UK and vice versa.

The only change is if they’ll be allowed to go over at 16 still or if it’ll now be 18. But with the right the work in the UK being automatic I assume FIFA really have no say in a 16 year old going to work in England.
 

pratyush_utd

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2017
Messages
2,544
Not sure why countries think skilled immigrants should be regulated. This will take English football back.
 

Snow

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
32,094
Location
Lousy Smarch weather
Hahahaha right wing politics has taken over the PL? Come on no one will have the money to sign a Longstaff brother for 50m.
If you read the article the FA chairman speaks about the law changes happening because of Brexit.

Government requirements are that players coming to play here should be internationally established at the highest level; making a significant contribution to football; and not taking the place of already settled talent. All of these need to be reflected in the new system.

As with every other sector in the UK, Brexit means it will be more difficult to recruit internationally. The Government has been clear that they expect all sectors to follow these principles and football will not be afforded an exemption.
 

Damien

Self-Aware RedCafe Database (and Admin)
Staff
Joined
Mar 4, 2010
Messages
89,104
Is this part of the reason why we bought lots of young talent in the summer I wonder? Is it restricted to just the January window or all windows going forward?
Will be going forward. This is basically them trying to ease in the 12 homegrown thing as standard which was their original plan for Brexit.
 

Amerifan

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
971
Well it depends how you look at it

Would Ronaldo have qualified automatically? No. Would Evra or Vidic.. maybe, I'm not sure what percentage of games they played before joining us. Maybe enough. Not sure.

Would they get though on appeal. Probably. Like the foyth example the big clubs are able to sign these players without too much issue


the applicant must be joining a club in the premier league or football league;
the applicant must have participated in a minimum set percentage of their home country’s senior competitive international matches during the two years (or one year if under 21) preceding the date of application. the percentage is based upon the following:
international team ranked 1-10, must have appeared in 30% of matches;
international team ranked 11-20, must have appeared in 45% of matches;
international team ranked 21-30, must have appeared in 60% of matches; and
international team tanked 31-50, must have appeared in 75% of matches.
the rankings above are based on the official fifa world rankings.

if a player fails to meet the above fa requirements for automatic endorsement, the football club can appeal under the fa appeals process to the exceptions panel. the criteria for the exceptions panel is split into ‘objective criteria’ and ‘subjective criteria
Lots of rules but to what end. Surely the PL benefits by putting the best product on the pitch. Whether that is a player who develops here or there is irrelevant to that end.
 

forevrared

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2009
Messages
5,167
Location
Los Angeles
It's such a backwards way of thinking. Why would you deliberately sabotage the quality and therefore the commercial appeal of the league? In an effort for what -- to ensure that a bunch of average English players get a participation trophy and get to sit on the bench? Aren't the populist right-wingers of the world always whinging about that? Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.
 

Shiva87

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,248
Location
Mumbai, India
Kind of explains why we stock piled young talent over the summer.

Could this block the Adama Diallo transfer?
 

Devil may care

Full Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
33,323
Make the PL great again!......

No surprise. They did say that in line with brexit they’d be tightening laws and the summer just passed would be the last chance to sign young EU talent without questions.
Probably why we got the Diallo deal done in the summer window, we knew this nonsense was on the horizon.
 

limerickcitykid

There once was a kid from Toronto...
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
13,364
Location
East end / Oot and aboot
Make the PL great again!......



Probably why we got the Diallo deal done in the summer window, we knew this nonsense was on the horizon.
The Diallo deal isn’t actually done yet and any player costing that much will get a work permit anyway, so most certainly not the reason. He also doesn’t have Italian citizenship currently so wouldn’t benefit from the current rules for EU players anyway.
 

Sayros

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Messages
3,884
Just when you think you've read the dumbest tweet, here comes this gem.
 

markhughes

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
343
Location
Sheffield, England

If they are lower talented players then surely they are not exactly stopping our world beaters from getting a game. I don’t see it doing anything but lowering standards overall.
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
8,049
This is no biggie. Its just similar rules as now but being applied to EU players equally as the rest of the world.
Did it really make sense before?
A south American gets a Spanish passport and then exempted from the “ability” rules here?
All foreign nationals will be treated equally now and the debate is how low the bar should be - anyone who has played at international level for example
So we can actually sign Celio Silva now? :p
 

Tomuś

Nani is crap, I tell you!
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
5,217
Location
Świdnik
Came straight to the last page but I bet somebody has already blamed Trump for all these bollocks. If not yet then it will sure happen soon.

Up to the point, it's really dumb. How do you determine who's 'lower quality'?
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
98,608
Location
Dublin, Ireland
According to the DM today, the PL will bypass the FA and go straight to the home office in a bid to get a suitable deal for football
 

pascell

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
8,399
Location
Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
The FA need to be careful here, the PL in one of the biggest incomes I'm guessing for our economy. By degrading the talent and lowering the quality of teams (which will inevitably happen) by pushing an agenda, will subsequently end up lowering the income as there would be less interest in the league. If we stop allowing foreign talents coming here to make a name for themselves, other leagues will pick them up and prosper as a result.

If the FA push say a British only scheme in the younger age groups, you'll just see the bigger teams hoarding more and more talent, hoping some good.
 

limerickcitykid

There once was a kid from Toronto...
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
13,364
Location
East end / Oot and aboot
If the FA push say a British only scheme in the younger age groups, you'll just see the bigger teams hoarding more and more talent, hoping some good.
U18s and below will pretty much be British only as per FIFA rules, FA don’t need to push for anything. It’s illegal to transfer foreign players u18.
 

Classical Mechanic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
30,224
Location
xG Zombie Nation
The FA need to be careful here, the PL in one of the biggest incomes I'm guessing for our economy. By degrading the talent and lowering the quality of teams (which will inevitably happen) by pushing an agenda, will subsequently end up lowering the income as there would be less interest in the league. If we stop allowing foreign talents coming here to make a name for themselves, other leagues will pick them up and prosper as a result.

If the FA push say a British only scheme in the younger age groups, you'll just see the bigger teams hoarding more and more talent, hoping some good.
I'm sceptical this is true. The PL grew into the most popular league in the world whilst it wasn't close to being the best. It fell off in quality after 2010 and for a few years wasn't great in Europe but still the oversea TV contracts continued to grow and grow. Spain would be the most popular league in the world if it was simply the biggest players and best teams that drew in audiences. Even in the Messi and Ronaldo era they haven't been able to catch the PL.

Even if the rules came to fruition as the PL are threatening at the moment I don't think it would affect the top sides in the league because very few of the players that play in their first teams wouldn't qualify for a work permit, or that have come through their academies after being nabbed from European sides under the age of 18.

It may affect the smaller sides more but they'd sign more African and South American players instead.
 
Last edited:

Mark Pawelek

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
2,254
Location
Kent, near London
It's probably not possible to have this discussion because you don't understand British politics tbf. Put it this way, if we really do get "increased access" to non-EU youngsters, I will be 100% shocked if it doesn't somehow end in a child trafficking scandal related to somebody FA and/or government affiliated.
You're projecting your bias onto me with "you don't understand British politics". I understand British politics very well. Lived here all my life. Listened to politicians and their lies. Read countless books and articles on politics. I have a very hard time imagining there's something you know which I don't. The notion that the FA, or our politicians, want more child trafficking is just crazy.

You think you know what I think. How? You never met me; have no idea what I think. But because I dared disagree with you - you give yourself to right to mind-read and speak for me by telling me what I think. This level of miscommunication and idiocy borders on pathological. Please go to school to learn how to think. Come back at me when you can control your fantasies and speak without telling other people what we think.
 

pascell

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
8,399
Location
Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
U18s and below will pretty much be British only as per FIFA rules, FA don’t need to push for anything. It’s illegal to transfer foreign players u18.
Is this post brexit?

I'm sceptical this is true. The PL grew into the most popular league in the world whilst it wasn't close to being the best. It fell off in quality after 2010 and for a few years wasn't great in Europe but still the oversea TV contracts continued to grow and grow. Spain would be the most popular league in the world if it was simply the biggest players and best teams that drew in audiences. Even in the Messi and Ronaldo era they haven't been able to catch the PL.

Even if the rules came to fruition as the PL are threatening at the moment I don't think it would affect the top sides in the league because very few of the players that play in their first teams wouldn't qualify for a work permit, or that have come through their academies after being nabbed from European sides under the age of 18.

It may affect the smaller sides more but they'd sign more African and South American players instead.
Spain will never be the best or biggest league, the individual TV deals sees an end to that, smaller clubs can't compete with Real and Barca because of the low amount of income.

It wouldn't for the next 3-4 years but after that there'll be a big drop off in quality, as it'll be British only players coming through. I'd comfortably say that 90% of the best PL players have been foreign, with barely any of them coming with a big reputation. So for the FA to turn them away if they got their way is ridiculous, the foreign players of the past have all brought different styles, skillsets, fanbases and character with them, those along with foreign coaches have helped mould the PL into the competition it is today.
 

HowYouDoin

New Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
1,020
Im not english so I dont wanna get into the whole Brexit thing although I do somewhat understand it, I have a Charles De Gaulle view of it but this is not a sensible way to do Brexit at all even if you wanna pull it off.
 

limerickcitykid

There once was a kid from Toronto...
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
13,364
Location
East end / Oot and aboot
Is this post brexit?


Spain will never be the best or biggest league, the individual TV deals sees an end to that, smaller clubs can't compete with Real and Barca because of the low amount of income.

It wouldn't for the next 3-4 years but after that there'll be a big drop off in quality, as it'll be British only players coming through. I'd comfortably say that 90% of the best PL players have been foreign, with barely any of them coming with a big reputation. So for the FA to turn them away if they got their way is ridiculous, the foreign players of the past have all brought different styles, skillsets, fanbases and character with them, those along with foreign coaches have helped mould the PL into the competition it is today.
Yes, post Brexit the UK won’t benefit from the EU free movement and will have to follow FIFA rules like the rest of the world which makes signing players u18s from abroad illegal. It’ll be British players only in academies, and I think Irish players should technically be good to sign too.




Saying 90% of the best PL players would be turned away is just sensationalism though. The PL’s proposition states it would have virtually zero impact on first team signings, while also opening up the chance to sign 500% more South Americans and Africans. Really the biggest change will be not being able to sign youth players, but that is a consequence of leaving the EU and zero to do with the FA. League One and League two clubs will also be unlikely to get to sign Europeans from abroad, but that isn’t going to decrease the quality of the PL. The details in the OP would have minimal effect on the quality of the PL.