Modric is proving to be exactly that in this generation.
Luka Modric / Signs for Real Madrid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Scholes is one of the top 3-5 midfielders of the last 20 years, you're saying Modric is at that level? The level of a Pirlo or Xavi? You're totally off your looper if you think Modric is the same level as Scholes or players like that.
We had Modric in our back pockets till the Nani sending off in the away leg and he didn't do much in the first leg either. I know those are just two games but I have never ever seen Scholse having a quiet game. Scholes was always dictating the play for us for the better part of 2 decades. He was our lynchpin. Everything went through him.
Big Pete once said this about Scholes and I think that it is absolutely spot on and why he is considered one of the best midfielders of his generation along with the likes of Xavi/Pirlo:
"People say he is a great player, but you have to define what a great player is, For me, it is a player who has a bottom level that means his worst performance is not noticed. If he is having a bad game, a team-mate might feel Paul Scholes is not quite on his game, but a spectator wouldn't notice.
Scholes, of all the players I have played with, has the highest bottom level. His reading of the game is unsurpassed. He has an eye for a pass, for what the play or the game needs at that precise moment, that I have never seen anyone else have. He controls and distributes the play and the game better than anyone I have ever seen."
Are you blind or in denial? Modric has come of a season where he was firmly in the Eufa team of the tournament with close to man of the match performances vs the likes of bayern yet you find a statement like this as ridiculous? The next 3-4 years will cement his place in the pantheon of midfield greats. He sadly wasted s much time in a spurs team that wasn't competing at this level so was always underrated but seems as though even after last season he's suffering the same fate.
Is there an "I've seen Scholes play football" option?
He's the best midfielder in the world for my money (though I think Iniesta could overtake him if he gets back to his best). Brilliant player and a joy to watch, makes it look easy.
Modric will never be talked about in the same manner as Scholes, he's an amazing player but he just isn't at that level
Modric is probably the best midfielder in the world at the moment, arguably for a year now. He's simply a world class, brilliant player.
But, he just isn't on Scholes' level. Or Pirlo's or Xavi's for that matter. To be in that category, you have to be something more than world class; unique and one of the most revered and best of a generation. Modric won't make that bracket, but he'll be in the group behind.
But, he just isn't on Scholes' level. Or Pirlo's or Xavi's for that matter. To be in that category, you have to be something more than world class; unique and one of the most revered and best of a generation. Modric won't make that bracket, but he'll be in the group behind.
He came off the bench after nani was sent off. And did he even play in the first leg? Wasn't it Khedira and Alonso?
nowhere near Scholes and this is coming from Croatian. still an excellent player, though, it doesn't change anything.
That's just silly. Alonso was clearly the standout midfielder on the pitch in both games against Bayern and di Maria stole the show in the CL final. Modric played an excellent season, but his run-in in the CL last season wasn't really special and he was quite often outshone by his teammates in midfield.
Could well be. Not good enough to start such a huge game? No matter who the manager is, he won't let his best midfielder rot on the bench while we are leading in a knockout match.
...
Look at it this way :
Midfielders (defensive and playmakers) who were arguably better than Scholes or at his level in the last 20 seasons :
Xavi Hernandez, Andrea Pirlo, Andres Iniesta.
Midfielders (defensive and playmakers) who were/ are definitely better than Modric in the last 20 seasons :
Clarence Seedorf, Roy Keane, Edgar Davids, Bastian Schweinsteiger, Claude Makelele, Frank Lampard, Patrick Vieria, Fernando Redondo, Steven Gerrard, Francesc Fabregas, Xabi Alonso, Deco, Ruben Baraja etc.
We all know that he still hadn't found his feet in madrid in that season. That was during the time when he was still in the worst signing of the year polls. Wont find him anywhere close to that nowadays.
Even Sir Alex thinks its a fair comparison.
Nope, Modric was easily the best player on the pitch in the first leg against bayern and was behind di maria in the final and there's no shame in that.
I can understand your point but it was not until last season when he actually stood out as an outstanding midfielder. One season of brilliance and people are comparing him to Scholes. Even then Alonso was more important to Madrid than Modric and it is already showing up this season.
He was brilliant at Spurs too and I think his 'terrible' first season was more like he a terrible 6 months. In the 2nd half he was very good, especially when not played out of position by Mourinho.
Don't agree that Alonso was more important either, Modrić had a way better season than him. They miss the defensive balance that Alonso added but that doesn't mean he's more important - if they'd sold Modrić and kept Alonso this summer it would have been just as problematic.
Though I think comparing him to Scholes is too much.
Why does he have to be as good as Scholes? He's a world class player and currently the best in the world, that's good enough for me.
Modric clearly was Real's best midfielder overall last season, even though I really believe that his performance level dropped a bit in the last few months while both di Maria and Alonso played their best football during that time.
However the comparison to the great CMs of the past 20 years really is silly. His last season was easily the best season of his career (he wasn't even a regular starter the season before) and he still wasn't the standout midfielder in the league, Rakitic or Koke were at least on a similar level. I also don't think he really dominated against top midfields. Real often chose to sit deep and soak up pressure in the big games and happily accepted that other teams controled the midfield as long as they couldn't make it count. The likes of Xavi, Scholes or Pirlo really owned the best midfields in the world in open games, in systems with a clearly pro-active approach no matter what the opponent was. That's a completely different level of quality. He's excellent and one of the best in the world at the moment, but that's it.
However the comparison to the great CMs of the past 20 years really is silly. His last season was easily the best season of his career (he wasn't even a regular starter the season before) and he still wasn't the standout midfielder in the league, Rakitic or Koke were at least on a similar level. I also don't think he really dominated against top midfields. Real often chose to sit deep and soak up pressure in the big games and happily accepted that other teams controled the midfield as long as they couldn't make it count. The likes of Xavi, Scholes or Pirlo really owned the best midfields in the world in open games, in systems with a clearly pro-active approach no matter what the opponent was. That's a completely different level of quality. He's excellent and one of the best in the world at the moment, but that's it.
He was on the bench until Nani got sent off.....
Just one season of brilliance?
And alonso and Luka worked well in a pair, not that Alonso or Luka are more or less important for Madrid.
That's not really true.
Why don't you add 20 more players while you're at it.
-He isnt good as Scholes was of course nor Pirlo or Xavi in their prime but right now he's one of the best mids in world. Call me biased but that's my opinion.
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Nope, he was fantastic in his last two seasons at spurs which essentially earned him the move to the biggest club in the world. Sir Alex has been comparing the two for some time now and rates modric as one of the best 5 small men in the prem era. Modric was well and far ahead of Alonso last season that isn't even up for debate. This is just the typical case of a player being underrated cause he wasn't at a big club and now that hes there and playing some amazing football some still find it hard to accept the level he's at.
Modric is more complete midfielder then Scholes was, but I agree, one season of brilliance is not enough if he wants his name in history of the game. If Modric can keep this level for few more seasons and win couple of titles on the way, we can make this a discussion, otherwise, it's not even a comparison.
The way I see it, to be a great you need to last. Ronaldinho is the only one who get's a free pass on that requirement, at least in my book...and that's only because he way just too good.
What's showing is that James is being shoehorned into the starting 11 at the cost of a defensive midfielder. The biggest discussion between Madrid fans is around the frustration with this whole setup in which we play without natural DM. To think that Alonso was more important the Modric last season is just ridiculous.
I am sorry but that is not true. The only thing I would give Modric over Scholes is his ability to dribble while running. Scholes was not the sort to run with the ball. Apart from that, Scholes shooting, passing and his ability to read the game and control the tempo is something Modric is close to.
He was very good at Spurs but no way was he as good as his last season at Madrid. That is the reason the Scholes comparison has come up. Up until last season he was a very good midfielder but not in the same breath as Scholes/Xavi/Pirlo. One season of wonder won't suddenly enable him to reach those heights.
Yeah that's fair, as good as he was for Spurs you're right that he definitely took it up a level last season.
Obviously agree with him not being at their level too, maybe my last post made it look like I thought he was though.
SAF also said Charlie Adam's set pieces are worth 10 million pounds. You cannot take everything which rival managers say about players on face value. In the same vein, we have had so many present and former greats of the game talking about Scholes being one of the best midfielders of this generation. I am yet to hear anything similar for Modric. Though I don't pay too much attention to these things as footballers always hype up their compatriots but just to point it our since you spoke about SAF talking highly of Modric.
Again, I doubt you will find anyone claiming he is not one of the best in his positions currently but to be compared to the likes of the true greats you need more than just one season of great football.
He get's 7/10 most categories, I see Scholes as 9/10 in important ones and 1/10 in a few such as tackling, height (
), I think you see my point though..I think he's underrated by some not just because he was at Spurs or sthing but because he comes from a small country.
If he were German, English, Spanish he would be praised a lot more I think.
If he were German, English, Spanish he would be praised a lot more I think.
That's just nonsense and you know it. Most on here agree he is one of the best midfielders around on current form. But that current form has only lasted for a year so far. Thus the comparison to Scholes is a bit of a joke.
Im not talking about people here but in general.
And I havent mentioned comparisons with Scholes too.
I'd agree with you on shooting, long pass also, short pass they're on par but Modric has best outside of the foot pass in the history of the game.
I think overall Modric is a better defender then Scholes was, he also reads the game well. I don't think Scholes was better at it.
At the end of the day it's all very subjective. Scholes was awesome in his time, Modric is now and I'm really sorry to see what happened to Gundogan. I thought he will be the next standout Scholes / Modric type of CM.
He may not be the most marketable player and playing for a smallish team like Spurs obviously won't get you noticed too much in countries which do not have a strong league of their own and thus follow the big leagues across Europe. But people who watch him regularly will definitely appreciate how good he is. And that has got nothing to do with his nationality. More likely to do with the fact he played for a smallish team up until last season.
By reading the game I meant more in terms of the best option to choose and having the ability to know how the flow is going to develop with a certain pass. I regularly saw Scholes ready with where to pass before he received the ball.
Maybe I said the wrong thing, people who know and watch football aknowledge but him not being so popular wordlwide as some other players is because he played for Spurs until recently as well as him being from Croatia.
No way was Scholes one of our top 3 players from the moment he made his debut all the way to the end of his career when he was clearly off the pace. He wasn't one of our most influential players in 07/08 and he definitely wasn't one of them when we won the treble in 99. His best seasons were from the early 00s to 07 when Keane started to decline and left gradually, and then a mini revival from 09-11.
Scholes best season for us was arguably 06/07 and then 02/03 when he played behind Ruud. If you ask me Modric 13/14 was probably as good as Scholes 06/07.
Obviously, Modric was never going to match Scholes long and illustrious career, but we are talking about them from a pure footballing ability viewpoint. I don't think it is ridiculous to think that Modric's as good as Schools, even if he's not. They are quite close in that aspect.
Modric was easily the best midfielder. Koke and Rakitic are not better, c'mon now.
You don't really watch a lot of us don't you? After the twatting we received in Milan in 2007, where we got utterly dominated by them, Fergie took on a very pragmatic approach in Europe. The European matches from 07-10 were us playing typically on counter-attack and concentrating more on defense. Our quality of our midfield play was shite even with a double-pivot of Scholes and Carrick and it remained the same until this season. Scholes (who was already past his peak) played quieter and less expansive role compared to the box-to-box one in 06/07. If you watch him against Barcelona in 2008, you'd see that he played deeper and always look to launch us into counter-attacking - very similar to Modric's perfomances for us against Bayern and Atheltico where he was clearly their best midfielder.
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Exactly. Modric is superior to those two in almost every aspect of the game requried to play CM, and last season he was just in the zone (pardon my tennis vocabulary). Rakitic will never play on that level. The comparison is pointless because Rakitic was playing free role behind the striker for most of the season and Koke way playing wide in 4-4-2 (more like a wide AM in 4-2-2-2). It makes no sense to compare the 3 when each had completely different role in his team.
I wouldn't reduce Scholes' career to those few years though.
In the league last season? Nope, Modric clearly wasn't easily the best midfielder.
Wut ? Funny you say that.
When almost every great opposition manager stated that Scholes was one of if not the most dangerous player in United's team. And not just from the early 00s to 07.
That includes the manager of our biggest rival in the late 90s Arsene Wenger. And our biggest European rival in the 90s - Juventus whose manager Marcelo Lippi even went as far as saying :
And their best central midfielder who said this :
And Juventus' best player who said this :
Scholes was the ultimate players' player. I dunno why you're insisting on putting Modric on the same pedestal TBF. I can guarantee you Modric will never even come close to Paul's greatness. This is what one of the most astute tactical minds in modern football said of him :
Not his successor Xavi, not his pupil Iniesta but Scholes.
And this is what arguably the greatest central midfielder of the last 20 years said himself :
Does any professional player or manager speak of Modric in those terms ? These are people far more knowledgeable than us and they rate him so highly. Meanwhile Fergie reckoned Alonso was Madrid's most dangerous midfielder and put Welbeck on to curtail his influence at the Bernabeu in 2012/ 2013 . Modric wasn't even the best midfielder on the team in. Just like in 2013/ 2014 when Di Maria was Madrid's most influential midfielder.
Look man, Modric is great. I wish we had him. But given the choice I'd choose Ballack, Seedorf, Gerrard, Fabregas, Schweinsteiger, Baraja, Deco, Redondo, Toure, Alonso, late Lyon/ early Chelsea Essien etc over him from the last 20 odd years.
Scholes ? Even from a neutral POV I'd only choose Xavi and Pirlo. Maybe Iniesta too but that's about it.
I think you could argue that Modric's season last year was as good as or better than any single season in Scholes' career. He'll not be able to match Scholes' consistency but if he's able to be the best midfielder in the world and one of the two or three most important players in a CL winning team in a couple more seasons, he will catapult himself into that discussion. He is pne of the best midfielders of his generation for me, even though he's frequently dismissed.
Honestly, using appraisals about him to support your claims isn't the most convincing of arguments because they were just speaking generally, I believe they would have good things to say about Modric if asked because Modric is hugely talented as well.
I don't deny that he's our best midfielder but saying that he's consistently a top 3 player for us in every season he's played in is a little ridiculous and doing the players who have performed better a major discredit. Beckham, Keane, Stam, Yorke were all definitely better and more influential than him our treble winning season. Between 07-09 when we had our most successful run in Europe ever, Rio, Ronaldo, Carrick, Vidic and Evra were all by far the standout performers. Even Carrick and Fletcher outshone him in the same period. The only period when he really stake his claim as one of our most influential player and a "dangerman" was probably from the turn of the century to the mid 00s. The same period when we were going a decline and transition, which was a bit of a shame for him. He came back from his career threatening eye-injury in 2006 and was probably the best midfielder in the world that season. After 07/08 he already had one foot in retirement and used sparingly by Fergie. The 06/07 season was the last time he would hit 40+ appearances for us. I believe if we answered our midfield issues then, Scholes would have retired earlier. The fact that he went on for another 4-5 years was a testament to how bad our midfield woes were.