I don't want to claim to be ITK or anything but I've heard today they're working on running.
Lukaku: We have been working on quick passing in last couple of weeks
- Thread starter roonster09
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This is great but my question would be why the hell haven’t they been working on this since last season when it was obvious with the people in the team this would have benefited us greatly. I think there have actually been signs of this since the first game of the season it’s just in that game our passing quality was terrible. Hope to see more of it and hope it’s not just another empty promise.
What will it be tomorrow? Will we, no I shudder to think of it, will we train standards? 
There's definitely been an uptick in the quality of movement, both of the ball and of our forward players, in the past couple of weeks. It's very welcome, but we should ask why it's taken over two years of Jose being here for us to start working on moving the ball quickly. The 14 players we used yesterday were all available last year. Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof and Sanchez were new last season and McKenna and Carrick were not on the coaching staff but why that precluded us from at least beginning to develop the culture of our play is a mystery.
Jose has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know so why it's only now he seems to have realised that moving the ball quickly and with purpose is preferable to slow sideways bullshit, and that the former was entirely possible to work on without adding two new ball playing CBs, new FBs and a new midfield to the squad, is odd to say the least. I don't want to be ungrateful as I'm pleased with our new direction but I'm frustrated we didn't try this 12 or 18 months ago.
@Adisa @girish @AgentP Training process changes over time. Last year, the team focused on structural and tactical work - to make sure the team shape was good and we don't concede. This took a bit away from the attack. Now that the players have a good sense of the tactical system, the focus is on the passing lanes/ movements and systems. It's natural to do this in a team building process.
Also, I'm sure McKenna and Carrick are more attack minded coaches than Rui Faria. They will probably coach the midfielders to use space differently when we have the ball. For example, a bunch of times yesterday, Pogba was sticking to the right wing byline like a right winger! That's not something he did at all last season. I remember Carrick used to move over to that side a lot during the 2008-2012 period to put crosses in.
The down side of this fluidity was seen over the last 2 games - where our CBs were exposed in a few situations and we conceded 6 goals. (Unlikely that this would have happened with Faria in charge - when both our CMs were first responsible for protecting the CBs, before getting involved in the attack)
Also, I'm sure McKenna and Carrick are more attack minded coaches than Rui Faria. They will probably coach the midfielders to use space differently when we have the ball. For example, a bunch of times yesterday, Pogba was sticking to the right wing byline like a right winger! That's not something he did at all last season. I remember Carrick used to move over to that side a lot during the 2008-2012 period to put crosses in.
The down side of this fluidity was seen over the last 2 games - where our CBs were exposed in a few situations and we conceded 6 goals. (Unlikely that this would have happened with Faria in charge - when both our CMs were first responsible for protecting the CBs, before getting involved in the attack)
Jeez people, just because they've mentioned us working on these things doesn't mean we never did before. We've probably just focused on it above all else in pre-season to try and fix perceived issues.
I love the approach we've taken in the last couple of games.
More attacking means less defending. Win win for us.
More attacking means less defending. Win win for us.
Amazing. Next week's revelation will be we've started working on taking corners
They were generally exposed even with an overly defensive strategy last season, every stat indicate that, only difference is the conceded goals
We can get better at things if we work on it. Since Jose became our manager, I never saw us trying quick passing, playing with intensity and pressing. This season we are going all that, which means Jose and his team is working on few things and we are finally moving in right direction when it comes to performance.
Which is why Pogba was benched in the middle of last season. Because he wasn't doing his protecting job well enough. But, there were many games where we didn't get as exposed. You don't have the defensive record we did when you are constantly getting exposed.
Also, the chances that were created by Brighton (especially) were because Perierra and Fred were nowhere close to the CBs. Yesterday, Fellaini and Matic were much closer to Smalling and Lindelof in most instances.
Mourinho made it pretty clear that the reason he was so annoyed about missing most of the team for pre season is because they couldn't work on this. Hopefully it will start to show through. My guess is we have a decent first few months with some issues then sign Toby for 35m at Christmas and kick on massively.
Who would have guessed reading and writing working on passing would pay off?
You jest, but its clear that we dont have any clue what to do. Its either hitting the first man or booted out for a throw-in. Or if it is put in a danger area, we hardly have any movement. I dont remember us scoring many corner / set piece goals since Fergies last season when we had RVP and Nani taking set pieces.
Anyway. I think people underestimate that we didn't have the squad together over the world cup. This has seriously hampered getting the new coaching staff settled and the players in line with new direction.
We suffered more than any other big team with the above so it's no wonder we have started off a bit disjointed in my opinion.
Wow, we are learning how to play football.
The biggest thing separating us and teams like Liverpool and City from an attacking point of view, IMO, is the will and ability to commit more bodies in attack. That of course ties into other stuff like pressing, winning the ball back high on the pitch instead of starting deep etc., but the last few years I just feel other teams have attacked with more men than we have. The last couple of games have been positive from that point of view.
The difference in quality between our left and right wings is so huge it's sad. We really need Dalot to step up. A quality leader like Alderweireld would also have helped us tremendously this season. Woodward needs to make this right in Jan.
Sanchez and Lukaku showed glimpses of chemistry yesterday which they were lacking last season. We’ll be relying on those two for goals so it’s time they started to click. His wastfeulness is infuriating but Alexis has the quality to open teams up. I think we missed him in the first half vs Spurs when we were on top.
There are some very good points here, Pogba being free to drift out onto the right was something I noticed yesterday as a clear change from what has come before. I accept big positive changes can take time to implement and that Jose's plan to work first on our structure and shape was not unreasonable. I would have liked to have had us working on moving the ball more purposefully sooner but I'm happy to see progress.
Smalling also said in his interview about Mourinho coaching patterns of play. He wasn’t really too specific though
Is it just me who thinks there's been a bit of an exagerration about how much our performances have changed?
In 2016-17 we played like we currently have been a lot. The difference was we drew a lot. I remember us having several games where we had 20, 25, 30 shots in 2016-17 and bemoaning the amout of big chances we were missing.
People talk about pressing but its not alien to us. Look how we beat Arsenal at the Emirates last season? Pressing high, getting 2-0 up early and then playing on the counter to ultimately win 3-1.
What happened last season was that there was a massive loss of confidence around Christmas. The defeat at home to City seemed to convince the squad that the title was gone and they played with their heads down for much of the next six months. Hence Mourinho's talk about islands of personality. Luke Shaw even said after the Leicester game that one of the things Jose was irritated at him for what not going forward more.
In 2016-17 we played like we currently have been a lot. The difference was we drew a lot. I remember us having several games where we had 20, 25, 30 shots in 2016-17 and bemoaning the amout of big chances we were missing.
People talk about pressing but its not alien to us. Look how we beat Arsenal at the Emirates last season? Pressing high, getting 2-0 up early and then playing on the counter to ultimately win 3-1.
What happened last season was that there was a massive loss of confidence around Christmas. The defeat at home to City seemed to convince the squad that the title was gone and they played with their heads down for much of the next six months. Hence Mourinho's talk about islands of personality. Luke Shaw even said after the Leicester game that one of the things Jose was irritated at him for what not going forward more.
Nice to hear.
Hopefully it's a case that we can still work solid defensively, and not leak goals from all angles like we did vs Brighton and Spurs. It's easy to say things are working and on the up after one win.
Let's re-assess this a few weeks after the international break.
Hopefully it's a case that we can still work solid defensively, and not leak goals from all angles like we did vs Brighton and Spurs. It's easy to say things are working and on the up after one win.
Let's re-assess this a few weeks after the international break.
Exactly!!!
The very basics in football should be that a player must be able to shield the ball from the opponent and make short/quick/accurate passes to team-mates.
Assuming that previously, our players were not focusing on quick passing and quick transitions, what the hell were they doing in training?
No. The issue is and has always been consistency in the way we approach games and like you said confidence. We have used all sorts of tactics in the last two years, we succeeded and failed with all of them at some point.
Don’t tell him your name Manwairing!
What have you been doing in the last two years, Rom?
Slow zombie passing and overanalysing our opponents in video sessions, to set up to their strengths
I actually agree with you on all points.
However, the issue of slow passing/attacks/transitions have been with us for around 10 months.
I do remember Jose explicitly mentioning dawdling on the ball, too many tricks/flicks and slow transitions being an issue, just after the Sevilla loss, last season. However, nothing actually changed and we continued to be slow and struggled to string more than a few short passes together. That style continued into pre-season and into this season.
Our players need to learn to play with speed. It is not an issue if they misplace a pass, while playing at speed, but when they play so slowly, the opponent is able to prepare for the incoming attack.
And let's not forget, Jose loves quick counter attacks. His ideal style of play is to sit back and when we get the ball in our defence, we attack and within 15 seconds put the ball into the back of the net of the opponent. Our players seem terrified of running fast with the ball and going straight for goal. I remember last season at OT, Lingard was 1v1 with Spurs' GK. I think it was Eriksen who chase Lingard (who had a 15m head start) and caught him. I know Lingard is slow, but he isn't that slow.
Our players need to be told to run at the opponent and not be scared to do so.
too late. who are we signing in january
Expected goals against, shots from inside the box, clear cut chances, paints a picture thats not very pretty when it comes to our defending.
'All we want is to see us play better were not just glory hunters, return to quick attacking united we love'
*players states thats whats being worked on and we see some early evidence of it on the pitch *
'Duh why weren't you do that sooner. Congratulations on learning how to play.'
I swear some of you would moan about how heavy your wallet is if you won the lotto
*players states thats whats being worked on and we see some early evidence of it on the pitch *
'Duh why weren't you do that sooner. Congratulations on learning how to play.'
I swear some of you would moan about how heavy your wallet is if you won the lotto
It does feel like we've suddenly realised we "might" need to actually coach the attacking play.
I have no idea what we've been doing for the last 2 years but I do feel we've been poorly coached under Mourinho.
Let's hope this is the start of something good.
I have no idea what we've been doing for the last 2 years but I do feel we've been poorly coached under Mourinho.
Let's hope this is the start of something good.
Glad we've been working on that quick passing. Wasn't really a fan of that slow passing.
In all seriousness, the lack of one touch football we play is criminal. It was one of the defining United features under Fergie.
In all seriousness, the lack of one touch football we play is criminal. It was one of the defining United features under Fergie.
Did it take Jose over 2 years to think maybe we should practice quick passing at training to improve???