Lukaku: We have been working on quick passing in last couple of weeks

[EyeInTheSky]

Jeez people, just because they've mentioned us working on these things doesn't mean we never did before. We've probably just focused on it above all else in pre-season to try and fix perceived issues.

Finally the voice of reason. At first, I was going to give the benefit of the doubt to all those "why weren't we doing that" blah, blah proponents thinking they were joking. Then I remembered where I was.

Specifically concentrating on something more so than usual is a normal process in any team under any manager depending on the given situation and players available. This does not mean that they don't do it normally or have never done it before.

You would think the caf einsteins would understand that but...

I would love it if Martial was used in the "get in behind" strategy because I don't know from what I have seen how good he is in the quick passing scenario since he likes to carry the ball and try and beat people. He has the pace for it in terms of both the getting in behind and giving and going but I don't remember him showing any great movement or making a consistent or effective effort to run into space and give options.

 

[Pscholes18]

Post match Lukaku said "The people will now see a different side of us. Everything we have been working on the last couple of weeks is coming now. Quick passing, runs in behind, lot of actions and lot of chances"


Which was very good to see. Even against Spurs we played well before they scored first goal and the 5 mins of madness. Today it was very obvious that we moved the ball very quickly and played with high intensity.

Think if we play with same intensity then most teams in the league just can't handle it. Hopefully we will stick to this, instead of just short term experiment.

They just started working on that stuff a couple of weeks ago?

 

[deafepl]

Amounts of players in the box or near the box are so unreal, I haven't seen like that in while, swap Martial for Lingard if Martial can improve off the movement so we could use Salah's role for Martial on the right wing with Dalot's overlapping and make himself available for a pass on the right flank while Martial going inside the box, Martial by is better finishers than all of our attacking.

 

[ash_86]

Yeah was thinking the same. Hopefully their influence will become apparent over the next few weeks. Mourinho's tactics (defend deep and hit on the break) can only succeed if the players have quick, sharp skills to execute them.

Quite true that.

 

[VeevaVee]

Amounts of players in the box or near the box are so unreal, I haven't seen like that in while, swap Martial for Lingard if Martial can improve off the movement so we could use Salah's role for Martial on the right wing with Dalot's overlapping and make himself available for a pass on the right flank while Martial going inside the box, Martial by is better finishers than all of our attacking.

Martial doesn't have as good movement as Lingard. If he can do it, then I'm all for it. Big if though

 

[deafepl]

Martial doesn't have as good movement as Lingard. If he can do it, then I'm all for it. Big if though

If we can work on improving our style of play in the last couple of weeks, then hopefully we can improve Martial too, if you combine Martial + Lingard into single players, they would be very dangerous. Martial is by better than Lingard with balls at feet, better dribble, finisher and physically stronger, only Martial lacking is off the movement. Lingard can improve too as he proved last season.

 

[VeevaVee]

If we can work on improving our style of play in the last couple of weeks, then hopefully we can improve Martial too, if you combine Martial + Lingard into single players, they would be very dangerous. Martial is by better than Lingard with balls at feet, better dribble, finisher and physically stronger, only Martial lacking is off the movement. Lingard can improve too as he proved last season.

Yeah deffo. I'm all for Martial coming good.

 

[RedDevil@84]

We need more contribution on scoring goals though. Sanchez, Rashford, Martial all need to step up their finishing. Even the likes of Mata, Pogba, Lingard when they play.

 

[ash_86]

If we can work on improving our style of play in the last couple of weeks, then hopefully we can improve Martial too, if you combine Martial + Lingard into single players, they would be very dangerous. Martial is by better than Lingard with balls at feet, better dribble, finisher and physically stronger, only Martial lacking is off the movement. Lingard can improve too as he proved last season.

This was what i was thinking too. Pick the 11 that will play the system right. Once the system is perfected and players know what to do, bring in other players into the same system and see if the system works better. Martial will definately be used once the system ingrains and hopefully he could outdo Lingard.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Even as a fan (I know it's only 2 bloody games) but I'm enjoying watching United again. Maybe Jose can turn it around and might actually be here for his final year of his contract. I honestly don't think I'd care if we 'parked the bus' and got the class Jose 1 or 3 points away to the big guns once we go at them at home like we did vs Spurs. As for the change in style itself, it will help us beat the lower deep defending teams that we have struggled against for the past 5 years.

Time will tell..

Oh man I feel the same way. Just a couple games but it's been so so promising ! And like you say, I'm fine with the defensive side for certain games - we managed to beat all of the top 6 like that last season! And that fa cup semi win was brilliant. So it's not the worst. But I want most of our games to be more fun than they have of late .

It's exciting to hope. And I rather that and be proven wrong than be a grouch

 

[Sterling Archer]

They just started working on that stuff a couple of weeks ago?

Jose was complaining thru pre season that he wanted to focus on changing the tactics some but it was hard with the WC. It makes sense, McKenna and Carrick are new...so this was only ever happening this summer and onward...just a shame the WC, USA tour and short transfer window really ruffled plans

 

[Greck]

Great to hear. More combination play and hopefully sharper finishing, too.

Lukaku shouldn't be the only one to score. If others will chip in there's a chance to save this season.

Agree on this. He's quality but not elite. We can produce more for our other wide players or maybe shift them closer to goal so they are more wide forward than winger. Having the attack working to put chances on a plate primarily for Lukaku imo won't see our attacking potential realised

 

[breakout67]

I strongly believe this is the McKenna influence; he is a very good coach when it comes to attacking movements. Mourinho has also been very vocal with Carrick and McKenna during games which is an obvious sign that they are working on something together.

I think chances are we'll have a new manager next season, but the most likely way for him to stay is to adapt his tactics for the games against weaker opposition where we can create more chances. His big game preparation is second to none, but he seems to take a relaxed approach to smaller games where he expects the players to show their quality.

 

[Mr PG]

There's definitely been an uptick in the quality of movement, both of the ball and of our forward players, in the past couple of weeks. It's very welcome, but we should ask why it's taken over two years of Jose being here for us to start working on moving the ball quickly. The 14 players we used yesterday were all available last year. Lukaku, Matic, Lindelof and Sanchez were new last season and McKenna and Carrick were not on the coaching staff but why that precluded us from at least beginning to develop the culture of our play is a mystery.

Jose has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know so why it's only now he seems to have realised that moving the ball quickly and with purpose is preferable to slow sideways bullshit, and that the former was entirely possible to work on without adding two new ball playing CBs, new FBs and a new midfield to the squad, is odd to say the least. I don't want to be ungrateful as I'm pleased with our new direction but I'm frustrated we didn't try this 12 or 18 months ago.

I think JM tried to win first to buy more time and trust but after we got played off the park by Sevilla he realized he needs to change now.... United will regret if they don’t give him time as another manager will take a whole season to bed in.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Martial doesn't have as good movement as Lingard. If he can do it, then I'm all for it. Big if though

Martial's lack of movement boggles m mind. Seems to move less than any player on the pitch over his last few games.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I think JM tried to win first to buy more time and trust but after we got played off the park by Sevilla he realized he needs to change now.... United will regret if they don’t give him time as another manager will take a whole season to bed in.

There's no doubt we could be in for a torrid few years yet if we keep chopping and changing. Fortunately we look like we're up for giving our managers a fair go; I would argue Jose, LVG and Moyes have all had the time they deserved.

 

[FromTheBench]

We need to work on our set pieces. Both defensively and attacking wise.

For a big team we really suck at them. It was key in meulensteens time here iirc.

 

[FromTheBench]

There's no doubt we could be in for a torrid few years yet if we keep chopping and changing. Fortunately we look like we're up for giving our managers a fair go; I would argue Jose, LVG and Moyes have all had the time they deserved.

Well Lvg and Jose were supposed to be readymade choices who would deliver success instantly and have spent huge money. By that logic Moyes having spent the least and having directly had to face the fallout of saf Leaving got the least time. And he was supposed to be the long term choice and someone who was to grow in the job.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Well Lvg and Jose were supposed to be readymade choices who would deliver success instantly and have spent huge money. By that logic Moyes having spent the least and having directly had to face the fallout of saf Leaving got the least time. And he was supposed to be the long term choice and someone who was to grow in the job.

That's pretty much what they were hired to do but I don't regret losing both Moyes and LVG when we did. Neither were going to turn it around in my opinion, we got shut of Moyes after less than a year and LVG went out on a high with a cup final win. Jose looks as if he'll be given at least this year to see what he can do, which in the current climate isn't too bad.

 

[Sandikan]

I love footballers at times. Lukaku saying we've been working on moving the ball quickly is gold!
What next? We've been working on trying to get more shots in? Or stop opponents shots?

Still, if we can cruise easy wins like that every week i'll be delighted!

 

[Bobski]

Looking like a well coached team who actually understand what they are trying to do for an extended period would encourage me more than results. Sustainability. Better signs in the last 2 games, Shaw getting the freedom to bomb on alleviates a lot of the passing issues from CB and generally lifts the tempo of the play, gives penetration with Sanchez always coming inside.

 

[Flanders Devil]

@Adisa @girish @AgentP Training process changes over time. Last year, the team focused on structural and tactical work - to make sure the team shape was good and we don't concede. This took a bit away from the attack. Now that the players have a good sense of the tactical system, the focus is on the passing lanes/ movements and systems. It's natural to do this in a team building process.

Also, I'm sure McKenna and Carrick are more attack minded coaches than Rui Faria. They will probably coach the midfielders to use space differently when we have the ball. For example, a bunch of times yesterday, Pogba was sticking to the right wing byline like a right winger! That's not something he did at all last season. I remember Carrick used to move over to that side a lot during the 2008-2012 period to put crosses in.

The down side of this fluidity was seen over the last 2 games - where our CBs were exposed in a few situations and we conceded 6 goals. (Unlikely that this would have happened with Faria in charge - when both our CMs were first responsible for protecting the CBs, before getting involved in the attack)

Interesting points... picking up on the CBs comment in a different light, I’d be interested to know what type of players people think we do need here? I noticed that whenever DDG got the ball he seemed to want to play it long to Lukaku. Is this part of the ‘new style’ to essentially get the ball upfield and win it high or more of a by product of not having confidence in the CBs to play out?

If the tactic is just about bypassing the CBs, then is the ball playing CB everyone wants really a priority or is it more about having a pairing that are well coordinated and can defend opposition counters in 1-1 type situations?

 

[Bobski]

Interesting points... picking up on the CBs comment in a different light, I’d be interested to know what type of players people think we do need here? I noticed that whenever DDG got the ball he seemed to want to play it long to Lukaku. Is this part of the ‘new style’ to essentially get the ball upfield and win it high or more of a by product of not having confidence in the CBs to play out?

If the tactic is just about bypassing the CBs, then is the ball playing CB everyone wants really a priority or is it more about having a pairing that are well coordinated and can defend opposition counters in 1-1 type situations?

Far less than people think I would suggest. Don't need a Baresi/Beckenbauer type, just need consistent competence of passing and a little composure under pressure. Even the best CB's in the world will play 90+% of their passes between each other, the full backs, keeper and deepest midfielder. Even in our best attacking teams under Fergie the CB's rarely did more that that, get the ball efficiently to Scholes/Carrick/Keane etc and play mainly begins from there.

 

[Trizy]

Oh man I feel the same way. Just a couple games but it's been so so promising ! And like you say, I'm fine with the defensive side for certain games - we managed to beat all of the top 6 like that last season! And that fa cup semi win was brilliant. So it's not the worst. But I want most of our games to be more fun than they have of late .

It's exciting to hope. And I rather that and be proven wrong than be a grouch

Like even if you compare it to last years start to the league we were winning 4-0's but still didn't look great overall, if that makes sense. There was even a thread titled something like ''have we turned a corner or are we flattering to deceive'' which nailed on exactly what was going on.

Promising signs indeed but again, time will tell.

 

[Ian Reus]

So have we levelled up?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Far less than people think I would suggest. Don't need a Baresi/Beckenbauer type, just need consistent competence of passing and a little composure under pressure. Even the best CB's in the world will play 90+% of their passes between each other, the full backs, keeper and deepest midfielder. Even in our best attacking teams under Fergie the CB's rarely did more that that, get the ball efficiently to Scholes/Carrick/Keane etc and play mainly begins from there.

I think when you look at great ball playing CBs they are almost always look to play it forward rarely just passing it to the FB or their CB partner. Their passes are generally going to the midfield. CBs who are not great on the ball are more likely to make passed to the FB or the other CB.

 

[RedCoffee]

Wow. It’s taken Mourinho 2 years to wake up and smell the new style required to make progress. That’s a long learning curve.

 

[Bobski]

I think when you look at great ball playing CBs they are almost always look to play it forward rarely just passing it to the FB or their CB partner. Their passes are generally going to the midfield. CBs who are not great on the ball are more likely to make passed to the FB or the other CB.

Is it necessary to have great ball playing CB's to play great attacking football, or for them to be key to the attacking plan? Looking at some of the best attacking teams in the history of the PL I would suggest not. Stam/Johnsen were competent but hardly eyecatching, Bruce/Pallister the same. Rio probably could have done more but didn't need to. The game has changed a little to be fair with more organized high presses

I would much rather have a great attacking full back than a ball playing CB if forced to choose, think they offer more value in the attacking game.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Is it necessary to have great ball playing CB's to play great attacking football, or for them to be key to the attacking plan? Looking at some of the best attacking teams in the history of the PL I would suggest not. Stam/Johnsen were competent but hardly eyecatching, Bruce/Pallister the same. Rio probably could have done more but didn't need to. The game has changed a little to be fair with more organized high presses

I would much rather have a great attacking full back than a ball playing CB if forced to choose, think they offer more value in the attacking game.

But, the great attacking sides right now generally have CBs who are good on the ball.

 

[Flanders Devil]

Far less than people think I would suggest. Don't need a Baresi/Beckenbauer type, just need consistent competence of passing and a little composure under pressure. Even the best CB's in the world will play 90+% of their passes between each other, the full backs, keeper and deepest midfielder. Even in our best attacking teams under Fergie the CB's rarely did more that that, get the ball efficiently to Scholes/Carrick/Keane etc and play mainly begins from there.

This is actually something I observed, more when watching the game live than on TV - watching live, it was quite clear that whenever Smalling receives the ball he only contemplates those four options. And I think whilst some can argue it means he is limited, it also gives him more clarity and hopefully in turn less room for error. And in the majority of cases one of those 4 options are more than adequate.

In contrast I remember Lindeloff (not having a pop at him, more showing the contrast) trying to play a long diagonal which went straight out of play. Now perhaps that’s the role/directive each CB was given by Jose, but it seemed that he was more often trying to pick a pass than Smalling was.

I’m no management expert, and perhaps you need one of each type for balance, just an observation of mine that backs up what you said there.

 

[Bobski]

But, the great attacking sides right now generally have CBs who are good on the ball.

Good yes, but generally their game is just quick and efficient rotation of the ball, beauty of simplicity. You have guys like David Luiz and Maguire to an extent who almost feel like gimmick players with how they look to force the game from the back.

 

[adexkola]

Far less than people think I would suggest. Don't need a Baresi/Beckenbauer type, just need consistent competence of passing and a little composure under pressure. Even the best CB's in the world will play 90+% of their passes between each other, the full backs, keeper and deepest midfielder. Even in our best attacking teams under Fergie the CB's rarely did more that that, get the ball efficiently to Scholes/Carrick/Keane etc and play mainly begins from there.

Having CBs who have the ability to split lines and get the balls to playmakers in the middle of the pitch unlocks a new dimension to your attacking game, moreso than having attacking fullbacks who can be nullified to some extent with the winger, full back and touch line. De Bruyne's goal against Chelsea comes to mind, that move was started by Otamendi making a ground pass to De Bruyne in the right half space between the lines, bypassing both Fernandinho and Chelsea's first line of defense.

If the opposition is actively shadowing/marking your DM, there will be some mismatch on the field that can be solved by having your CB push up into space, or the CB finding the open playmaker or winger.

Your percentages are spot on I think, but the extra 10% can be a difference maker in a tight game.

 

[WR10]

Wtf were we training if it wasn’t that anyway?

 

[ivaldo]

I love footballers at times. Lukaku saying we've been working on moving the ball quickly is gold!
What next? We've been working on trying to get more shots in? Or stop opponents shots?

Still, if we can cruise easy wins like that every week i'll be delighted!

It's almost like English isn't his first language. Try changing it to "focussing on."

 

[R'hllor]

He made it sound like they doing it for the first time ever

 

[Lennon7]

I love footballers at times. Lukaku saying we've been working on moving the ball quickly is gold!
What next? We've been working on trying to get more shots in? Or stop opponents shots?

Still, if we can cruise easy wins like that every week i'll be delighted!

What are you on about you?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Like even if you compare it to last years start to the league we were winning 4-0's but still didn't look great overall, if that makes sense. There was even a thread titled something like ''have we turned a corner or are we flattering to deceive'' which nailed on exactly what was going on.

Promising signs indeed but again, time will tell.

Absolutely. I remember us being pedestrian for 80 minutes then scoring two or three in the final minutes once Martial or Rashford came on. Certainly flattered us.

Now, we have to make the most of the chances early on. That will be the next challenge once we get the consistent attacking mindset back. I'm most worried about that as we've seen how poor we can be, not just last two games but last two seasons...loads of missed chances that should have gone in the net

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Wtf were we training if it wasn’t that anyway?

Handshakes.

 

[Drifter]

So have we levelled up?

Seems like we have a lot of grinding to do before we're on to the next level.

 

[sherrinford]

What are you on about you?

Isn’t it obvious? It goes without saying that we will have been working on moving the ball quickly as it is fundamental to attacking.