[Jippy]

He was terrible against Newcastle. And he’s had some real stinkers. However, today he played like he had something to prove. Looked sharper, quicker and most importantly more decisive. He also contributed more in attack. Not much agility left in him though. I wonder if he was at all well for the Newcastle game?

Probably more because he'd had a proper rest between games. With the injuries he's had, Shaw's not really built for two games a week.

That's just a blatant lie, he's basically non existent in attack.

Now I assume a fair few of them games are from centre half but even on the eye test judging his games from LB he hardly ever overlaps anymore and his crossing that used to be one of his stronger assets has gone missing. In defence he's typically solid enough but going forward he offers nothing.

Often this season yes, but I feel like he spent at least half the game in the Villa half and got forward more yesterday than I'd seen in ages. Strange timing to say he's 'non-existent in attack'. Also agree with the poster a couple up saying his understanding with Cunha seems to be improving, maybe in part because Cunha is actually staying out wide left now too.

 

[Godfather]

Had a really good game yesterday

 

[Rossa]

Probably more because he'd had a proper rest between games. With the injuries he's had, Shaw's not really built for two games a week.

There was some talk of him being ill, so there may be that, but he was absolutely terrible against Newcastle. Impressively, when we substituted him with Malacia it became much worse.

He was very good against Aston Villa - more intensity to his game. His time is, however, up at United. He's not good enough as an attacking option, and his legs are leaving him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

There was some talk of him being ill, so there may be that, but he was absolutely terrible against Newcastle. Impressively, when we substituted him with Malacia it became much worse.

He was very good against Aston Villa - more intensity to his game. His time is, however, up at United. He's not good enough as an attacking option, and his legs are leaving him.

He’s going nowhere in the summer. He’s immovable until his contract expire, as there’s not a club on the planet who would entertain paying him anything like we do.

He’s a player you literally couldn’t giveaway for free.

That said, when he’s on it - he’s still a good player. We need serious competition for him, not Buttner or Malacia types, a first team left back.

Shaw has generally done well this season, but he’s incapable of playing the number of games we will play next season, overplaying him will cause him to get injured.

I would bet now he misses more than half of next seasons games. United have had the lowest no. of games in a season for more than 100 years - that’s seriously helped Shaw.

 

[Rossa]

He’s going nowhere in the summer. He’s immovable until his contract expire, as there’s not a club on the planet who would entertain paying him anything like we do.

He’s a player you literally couldn’t giveaway for free.

That said, when he’s on it - he’s still a good player. We need serious competition for him, not Buttner or Malacia types, a first team left back.

Shaw has generally done well this season, but he’s incapable of playing the number of games we will play next season, overplaying him will cause him to get injured.

I would bet now he misses more than half of next seasons games. United have had the lowest no. of games in a season for more than 100 years - that’s seriously helped Shaw.

I dunno - there may be an English club with too much money - Newcastle - or Tottenham being silly who may take him off our hands, or a Saudi Club. His lack of legs is hurting us. Yes, he does get forward from time to time, but the number of times Cunha is left on his own to do stuff is infuriating. His supporting cast on the left is mostly Bruno, who is everywhere on that pitch. I think it was against Newcastle where they were breaking into the box, and Bruno, flogged as slow on here - which is rubbish btw - sprinted past a jogging Shaw and intercepted the ball. For me, that highlights the difference between them, and between Bruno and many; Shaw's intensity levels vary far too much. When he's on it, like against Villa, he can be very good, but even then, his lack of acceleration, agility (he's starting to turn like Maguire) and stamina are hurting us. And I think it's about time the discussion of him being a good crosser of the ball ends - he's not.

 

[Jippy]

There was some talk of him being ill, so there may be that, but he was absolutely terrible against Newcastle. Impressively, when we substituted him with Malacia it became much worse.

He was very good against Aston Villa - more intensity to his game. His time is, however, up at United. He's not good enough as an attacking option, and his legs are leaving him.

I didn't see the Newcastle game, but yep we definitely need to add full-back options.

 

[Frank White]

We are not in 80s anymore where full back's "attacking phase" is to overlap and cross.
Shaw is basically wide midfielder in attacking phase and his ball retention means a lot for our general play.

What are you on about? What does the 80's have to do with anything. You said he's a good option in attack, he's not. He rarely helps in attack, compare him to any top full back in the world and I'd assume the difference between their attacking output would be night and day. Hell even compare him to some average ones and the difference will be pretty big.

Yesterday he was alright, he's normally decent enough in defence but going forward he offers nothing.

 

[Frank White]

Probably more because he'd had a proper rest between games. With the injuries he's had, Shaw's not really built for two games a week.


Often this season yes, but I feel like he spent at least half the game in the Villa half and got forward more yesterday than I'd seen in ages. Strange timing to say he's 'non-existent in attack'. Also agree with the poster a couple up saying his understanding with Cunha seems to be improving, maybe in part because Cunha is actually staying out wide left now too.

Well yeah he said he said his whole season is going under the radar, excellent in defence and a solid option in attack. I agree he's decent enough in defence but going forward he's pretty poor. Against Villa he was fine and i think that was one of his better outings going forward, maybe it's just me expecting too much from a full back but if people are happy with his game then fair enough, different strokes and all that.

 

[Ali Dia]

He was a lot better going forward and playing on the overlap a few years ago. You'd expect your wing backs to get a few goals and assists in this day and age but mostly Shaw tucks in and lets Dalot overload the other side

 

[Andycoleno9]

What are you on about? What does the 80's have to do with anything. You said he's a good option in attack, he's not. He rarely helps in attack, compare him to any top full back in the world and I'd assume the difference between their attacking output would be night and day. Hell even compare him to some average ones and the difference will be pretty big.

Yesterday he was alright, he's normally decent enough in defence but going forward he offers nothing.

Shaw does a lot in build up phase. He is like another midfielder out there thanks to his good technique and passing ability. And, while attacking phase is important, defending is primary job of full back. And Shaw does that job excellent.

Would i take Mendes or Gvardiol over him? Of course i would. But the fact is that there are not many full backs better than Shaw overall.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He played the most minutes this season.

And he's been very good all season.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Shaw does a lot in build up phase. He is like another midfielder out there thanks to his good technique and passing ability. And, while attacking phase is important, defending is primary job of full back. And Shaw does that job excellent.

Would i take Mendes or Gvardiol over him? Of course i would. But the fact is that there are not many full backs better than Shaw overall.

In the last game, it was very obvious that during buildup Shaw sat deep as LCB, Maguire was CCB and Yoro as RCB and Dalot either tucked into midfield or went wide, that's why Shaw was going up too much but when there was a chance, he'll make the run, but it was clear he focused on buildup play and possession retention while the front 4 were tasked with attacking work

 

[lex talionis]

He played the most minutes this season.

And he's been very good all season.

This. Yet another very solid performance yesterday from Luke.

That said, our summer transfer squad evaluation has to include a successor to Shaw. Maybe Amass, but if not Amass then a new LB is required.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

This. Yet another very solid performance yesterday from Luke.

That said, our summer transfer squad evaluation has to include a successor to Shaw. Maybe Amass, but if not Amass then a new LB is required.

I really think Dorgu is an excellent successor, I don't see him as LW long term.

 

[lex talionis]

I really think Dorgu is an excellent successor, I don't see him as LW long term.

I like Dorgu, I really do, but he looks much more of an attacking asset (and high presser) than a defensive asset. He can do a job at LB but I’d have to see more from there to commit to the belief that he’s Shaw’s successor.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I like Dorgu, I really do, but he looks much more of an attacking asset (and high presser) than a defensive asset. He can do a job at LB but I’d have to see more from there to commit to the belief that he’s Shaw’s successor.

Agree with your assessment of Dorgu, and that's why an excellent head coach will bring out the strengths of a FB to benefit the team, and we all know that there are no 2 identical FBs, you will find a defensive beast who is very meh in going forward (AWB), or an attacking /assist machine who is very suspect defensively (TAA), the best FBs are the ones who are balanced both ways, and those are very rare, so Dorgu can be developed and his strentghs that you mention should be maximized, and I see next season both him and Shaw sharing the spot will be the best way to go as we know Shaw can't hack 2 games a week despite his excellent availability this season.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Shaw does a lot in build up phase. He is like another midfielder out there thanks to his good technique and passing ability. And, while attacking phase is important, defending is primary job of full back. And Shaw does that job excellent.

Shaw's 'build up' play this year has been mostly rudimentary and quite often poor. You make it sound like he's Lahm out there when in reality he's none of what you've said. As a defensive fullback in and around his box he has been surprisingly solid and fairly consistent all season. In possession when he has to play near the halfway line or go into the opposition half, whilst he still has one or two moments of quality, he has become bit of a non existent quality. Let's not talk about when the opposition doesn't give him time on the ball i.e any half hearted press in his direction because he rarely takes a touch to open his body and quite often recycles backwards or plays the ball into awkward angles for his team mates.

His experience, lack of moving/contributing expansively is his biggest attribute this year because he's limiting his own mistakes and whilst that's a 'safe' base to have in our volatile season, we shouldn't glaze his impact too much.

 

[lex talionis]

Agree with your assessment of Dorgu, and that's why an excellent head coach will bring out the strengths of a FB to benefit the team, and we all know that there are no 2 identical FBs, you will find a defensive beast who is very meh in going forward (AWB), or an attacking /assist machine who is very suspect defensively (TAA), the best FBs are the ones who are balanced both ways, and those are very rare, so Dorgu can be developed and his strentghs that you mention should be maximized, and I see next season both him and Shaw sharing the spot will be the best way to go as we know Shaw can't hack 2 games a week despite his excellent availability this season.

Dorgu has a great head on his shoulders and if he's told he's going to be our LB and not our backup LW I'm he'll embrace the challenge. He looked poor as a wingback under Amorim (but everyone looked poor to meh at best under Amorim), but as a winger under Carrick he was (out with a hamstring just as he hit fifth gear) ridiculous, borderline world beater on quality and athleticism. The way he beat the man, maybe it was against City, to hit the inside of the right post was nothing like I've ever seen from a fullback not named Roberto Carlos. And the insane screamer against Arsenal...these are the skills of a front line footballer, not a back line footballer. Let's put it another way -- if a player can beat a man on the dribble, beat a man to the penalty spot and can score like what we saw him score again City and Arsenal I want him in the box and not away from the box.

Who knows if this is true, but I have unearthed this hard-to-believe claim on the internet:

• Impact: Within a short period, Dorgu provided five goals/assists in his first seven matches under this new setup.

He's still only 21 so he's got a long career ahead of him and perhaps his future is that of a fullback -- a marauding fullback to be sure -- but if so we might be losing out on the best aspects of his game playing him that far away from the final third. But I could be wrong.

 

[morree]

Ain't a fan of Shaw but gotta say he was good defensively tonight, made some important blocks.

 

[TRUE NUMBER 9]

Improved lately, had another decent game tonight.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Good in and around his own penalty box defensively. Absolutely shocking on the ball with his efforts, lack of physicality, reading of the play and in any area outside his own defensive third.

 

[Frank White]

Got skinned in the 1st half and they nearly scored off of it and offered the square root of feck all going forward. The one time he did over lap smashed it straight at the 1st man. Wasn't all bad did do some good blocks and got out of a few tricky situations towards the end where they put the press on on us, still should be looking to improve this summer.

 

[Bojan11]

Still needs replacing in the summer. Good defensively, but offering nothing going forward. That would be fine, if we didn’t have Dalot on the other side. Both of our fullbacks offering nothing going forward cannot happen.

 

[Red in STL]

Still needs replacing in the summer. Good defensively, but offering nothing going forward. That would be fine, if we didn’t have Dalot on the other side. Both of our fullbacks offering nothing going forward cannot happen.

Of course Dalot provided the overlap and crossed to the back post for that Bruno chance the keeper saved, Dalot was fine tonight

 

[Bojan11]

Of course Dalot provided the overlap and crossed to the back post for that Bruno chance the keeper saved, Dalot was fine tonight

Apart from nearly giving them a goal with his brain fart passing, which he does every game.

 

[RedStarUnited]

He offers nothing absolutely nothing going forward

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

That moment at the end when he won the ball back and then Bruno got him in a great crossing position only for him to hit it straight into the defender was so so annoying

 

[Roboc7]

It’s hard to be too critical as he is clearly a shadow of the player he was at his best. We shouldn’t be so reliant on him, it’s a big problem that our starting fullbacks are Shaw and Dalot.

 

[Dominos]

First half he didn't seem focused at all, so lackadaisical.

Second half he was much more aggressive and shut down their winger, played pretty well.

 

[Fortitude]

The stick he gets is so disproportionate. He's a LCB and a defensive LB in his advanced years; anything else and it's on people to adjust their expectations because they are berating a luxury vehicle for not being a 4*4 off road beast and that's silly.

Shaw is solid in his roles for the most part and if not at LB has a solid shout for CB and that's it.

We're not using that flank intelligently and factoring in what having a defensive fullback can actually mean for the players ahead of him, who should be teaming up more in lieu of an outside flanker, but also with the knowledge they have cover more often than not.

 

[criticalanalysis]

We're not using that flank intelligently and factoring in what having a defensive fullback can actually mean for the players ahead of him, who should be teaming up more in lieu of an outside flanker, but also with the knowledge they have cover more often than not.

I can 'forgive' a lot of his lack of athleticism outside of his own penalty box e.g overlaps, support runs, dribbling penetration, even his woeful crossing nowadays but the majority of his issues are down to his use of the ball. He's essentially become a LB version of Maguire now and it's awful for our game. He's always on his heels, receives the ball in awkward angles, plays the ball in awkward places and gives his team mates awkward passes; a lot of toe pokes, push balls with little momentum and/or a straight hoof up the line with little aim, all whilst moving like a snail when he's asked to give a passing option. It's honestly hard to count on one hand in a game where I see a simple pass from Shaw to Cunha where I think 'at least the latter got it in somewhat a good place with decent pace and accuracy on it'.

Defensively he has been pretty good this season and that is somewhat an underrated aspect seeing our troubles down that left side over the years but a lot of the frustration/expectation is that he's taking the most minimalist approach to the game in terms of actually being progressive. I'm not expecting him to be Martinez from LB but he's not even 20% of that.

Of course it's a wider team issue as our build up play is still based on instinct and little direction but again even taking that into account, Shaw's own efforts in these aspects are so lacking for a player of his technical qualities.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Defensively good. Put in a few great blocks. Unfortunately he barely goes beyond the halfway line.

 

[Fortitude]

I can 'forgive' a lot of his lack of athleticism outside of his own penalty box e.g overlaps, support runs, dribbling penetration, even his woeful crossing nowadays but the majority of his issues are down to his use of the ball. He's essentially become a LB version of Maguire now and it's awful for our game. He's always on his heels, receives the ball in awkward angles, plays the ball in awkward places and gives his team mates awkward passes; a lot of toe pokes, push balls with little momentum and/or a straight hoof up the line with little aim, all whilst moving like a snail when he's asked to give a passing option. It's honestly hard to count on one hand in a game where I see a simple pass from Shaw to Cunha where I think 'at least the latter got it in somewhat a good place with decent pace and accuracy on it'.

Defensively he has been pretty good this season and that is somewhat an underrated aspect seeing our troubles down that left side over the years but a lot of the frustration/expectation is that he's taking the most minimalist approach to the game in terms of actually being progressive. I'm not expecting him to be Martinez from LB but he's not even 20% of that.

Of course it's a wider team issue as our build up play is still based on instinct and little direction but again even taking that into account, Shaw's own efforts in these aspects are so lacking for a player of his technical qualities.

Yeah, his offensive use of the ball has declined and he’s more mindful when being expansive, mostly, I reckon, because he has to consider how much that action might cost him if he has to try and retrieve the ball or get into a foot race with some young whippet.

Personally, I expect very little from him beyond the half way line now, and my first thought is don’t overextend and injure yourself; I don’t think that makes him a write off for this season, or even another, I just think we have tactically adapt and modify how we play down that flank, like teams do when they have defensive minded fullbacks. We should be smarter down that flank than we are.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Yeah, his offensive use of the ball has declined and he’s more mindful when being expansive, mostly, I reckon, because he has to consider how much that action might cost him if he has to try and retrieve the ball or get into a foot race with some young whippet.

Personally, I expect very little from him beyond the half way line now, and my first thought is don’t overextend and injure yourself; I don’t think that makes him a write off for this season, or even another, I just think we have tactically adapt and modify how we play down that flank, like teams do when they have defensive minded fullbacks. We should be smarter down that flank than we are.

The thing is I'm not even talking about his use of the ball beyond the half way line, in an 'offensive' sense or when needing to be more athletic. Even in his own half or just outside his own box, his movement, approach to receive and willingness to pass in a progressive manner is so bad. Too often he will box himself in because he takes a touch on his heels, allow an opposition to press near him and instantly he's on the backfoot positionally as he has no desire to work (i.e take a forward touch, shield, use his right foot etc) an angle to move it to another teammate. These are in mostly little to no pressure situations i.e when we are trying to build up with the ball across the backline.

It's not even a physical thing, he simply refuses to be involved in a positive/progressive manner on the ball whilst also putting his teammate in many disadvantageous situations because he's almost a net negative on the ball. I know you have to be careful for what you wish for but you can't gamble on having a Maguire at LB if you actually want some semblance of control in a game in those areas. Every player and their issues can be mitigated if you wanted to but specifically at LB I think his days as a starter should be long gone after this season; his defence and experience is not worth the black hole of ball playing on that flank and I'd much rather we bet big on Dorgu there.

 

[Borys]

Fair play to him, he's doing what he can to keep up with players and game that is sadly too fast for him.

Clearly teams are giving him a lot of space on the left because he's just so easy to catch / block.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Did two lovely lofted through-balls to Sesko and Cunha in the second half. He's compensating for his lack of legs with some nice long-range passing. I'd play him CB in Martinez's absence.

 

[Oranges038]

Absolutely rubbish for both goals, offers the bare minimum on the ball.

He's done.

 

[Superunknown]

Time to put him in a home.

 

[Rossa]

Arguably our best player tonight. Doesn’t say much, however, I’ve criticised him for not taking the lead, but tonight I think he did. Unfortunately, he’s physically not the same player - the break where he had to take a yellow, a couple of years ago he would have won that foot race easily.

 

[CM]

He was really good in the second half. Some great tackles and passes