Lvg was probably the only manager since fergie where we were able to take on the top sides without having to rely on camping in our own half and hoping to get something on a rare counter break.
LVG's United is not better than Ole's
- Thread starter meamth
- Start date
LvGs first season is better than anything Ole has served up. That infamous 6 game run is imo the best football we've played in the last 7 years. When Ole ruins Liverpool at Anfield and destroys City at home, we'll talk.
Ole had a run of 20 to 25 games where we were showing relegation form. Those epic losses to Cardiff and Huddersfield and that horrid start to last season.
Ole had a run of 20 to 25 games where we were showing relegation form. Those epic losses to Cardiff and Huddersfield and that horrid start to last season.
We spanked City so many times dude.
To be fair Liverpool in that period isn't all that good, if that United vs Liverpool now, he will got raped, sideways, all holes.
Perfectly described it.
Mou taught me to get irritated with football and Ole taught me to accept low standard of football.
City away last season was great actually. That said, both are just bad as each other.
Did you watch tiki taka under Pep?
I am sure Ole is proud.
;
Who cares? Both tenures have been awful to watch; Ole's slightly less so. Nevertheless, just this season we've had to endure humiliations again Palace, Spurs and Istanbul; snorefests against Chelsea, Arsenal, and West Brom; and a lucky escape against Brighton. It's been pure shite, and there is no point arguing otherwise.
I really dont think De Maria was his signing. Regards Memphis to I think LVG stopped playing him as a left winger when he bought Martial as he is not suited there for the EPL. I think if LVG was still managing us he would had played Martial Memphis Rashford as the strike force.
Darmain was highly touted and i remember he destroyed Baines, I dont know what happened to him when joined us. Shaw had o restart his training when he joined as he was unfit but when he started playing he looked like potentially the best full back in the world pre leg breaker.
It was obvious that LVG would had the full backs bombing forward and with midfilders providing the protections. The issue was he did not have the quality of players. It was said by LVG - Ed Woodward was clueless and didnt know anything which is why he screwed him over in the transfer market.
I think we dont currently have a style besides counterattacking, we don't seem to be properly coached specially when we are required to break low blocks. We have no attacking pattern and almost all of our goals come from individual brilliance rather than collective plays. With LVG you could see that we played under a very specific system, keep posession and recycle recycle recycle, pass from side to side until the clock runs out.
I don't know if we are better or worse right now than what we were under Val Gaal, but one thing's for sure we are not as boring to watch as we were back then. LVG style put me literally to sleep more than once, of course the fact that games are broadcasted at 5-6 a.m. here doesnt help, but feck me that was boring as hell.
Now the fact that we are making this comparison tells everything about our current state, we are awful to watch. We need to change managers ASAP, we are wasting another season with no progress at all.
I don't know if we are better or worse right now than what we were under Val Gaal, but one thing's for sure we are not as boring to watch as we were back then. LVG style put me literally to sleep more than once, of course the fact that games are broadcasted at 5-6 a.m. here doesnt help, but feck me that was boring as hell.
Now the fact that we are making this comparison tells everything about our current state, we are awful to watch. We need to change managers ASAP, we are wasting another season with no progress at all.
They got more points...
LvG football made me fall asleep. That’s actually true. I kind of loved the guy, but we played so damn boring under him.
Yeah, LVG was genuinely worse than watching us under Moyes, style wise.
That's not what he quoted. It was called possession based offensive football.
No but he also had worse players, partly because of the ones he attracted. And even if you hated it, he had a way of playing that did result in some amazing performances against the top teams (Juanfield). We were just too bad at breaking down the bad teams and LvG was rightfully sacked. If anything, the rumours of Poch coming in reminds me of the rumours that Mourinho had been signed in LvG's second winter when he should have been sacked.
However, Ole's team is getting closer in terms of utilisation of the team's ability to achieve results i.e we have much better players than the results we're showing.
One example I can think of which is almost 1:1 is that Donny VdB is Ole's Herrera. Everyone can see he should play but unless we have injuries he won't even considered. This is even if he's proven time and again he's better than the dross Ole plays like McT.
However, Ole's team is getting closer in terms of utilisation of the team's ability to achieve results i.e we have much better players than the results we're showing.
One example I can think of which is almost 1:1 is that Donny VdB is Ole's Herrera. Everyone can see he should play but unless we have injuries he won't even considered. This is even if he's proven time and again he's better than the dross Ole plays like McT.
Last edited:
Personally I don’t think we are in a better position which is sad. Overall LVG is a better manager but Jesus was he torturous when here. I don’t miss the 70+ possession with only 3-4 shots a game it was like a nightmare I couldn’t wake up from. Overall while I think we are woeful against low block under Ole it’s still better than LVG
Football under LVG was the worst I have ever seen in my life - by some distance.
We went game after game with barely a shot on target at Old Trafford.
When I think of the LVG football I think of the cup game against Sheff Utd.... then of league 1. We scrambled a late winner at OT - first shot on target was about the 70th minute.
Never again please
We went game after game with barely a shot on target at Old Trafford.
When I think of the LVG football I think of the cup game against Sheff Utd.... then of league 1. We scrambled a late winner at OT - first shot on target was about the 70th minute.
Never again please
I went to Old Trafford loads in the Van Gaal era. Can't tell you the amount of times I used to think 'we're playing alright here!' and then I'd look at the clock, see that we were in the 37th minute, and realise that we hadn't been in their penalty area yet.
Those who have followed their development in the last 12 or 13 years usually do. There's a fundamental difference in playing identity before and after 2009, and this change was crucial for everything that came afterwards.
Anyway, this is about LvG's United spell, which seems to have been one of his trademark disasters.
Both have been awful at United. Despite being a strong Ole out person, i think he has delivered more at United than LVG did. LVG signings were never United signings, Ole has some great players at his disposal and has largely taken out the trash. The common ground they have is boring football, no plan despite saying a million times they have one and more importantly, an inept board that strategically, couldn't even organise a piss up in a brewery. It does not matter who we get next, we could get Klopp. The results will be the same, good start that fades and a bunch lf nonesense after. Ed needs to hand over the strings to someone who has mlre knowledge and then we wouldn't be here anymore clasping onto stupid comparisons because life as a United fan is dull and not really going anywhere. When Jose was sacked, we was promised. Director of football and a careful hire of a manager. We got neither, and 2 years on, we are still 10th with no direction or ambition. The club is rotten, damp takes a long time to fix. We are possibly 10 plus years away from being title challengers.
LVGs horrible transfers set us further back than any other manager. Martial his undisputed Best Buy still hasn’t nailed down a spot, Herrera and Shaw were club signings and all the rest were terrible.Jose’s work in the market was a pretty marked improvement. The football we played under LVG made me stop paying attention to our games. They’d be on but I would only be half watching and I’d rarely watch the highlights again after. Under Ole It’s still bad but at least we are trying to score these days. If it wasn’t for Bruno I feel like ole would definitely be gone by the end of last season though. It’s looking more and more like we need better coaching and to stop constantly relying on moments of magic to lift us. I want Ole to succeed but I think he may have peaked.
Last edited:
People just have short memory
LVG was clearer in what he wanted and it showed on the pitch. But it was kinda boring and the main reason in my opinion is that he didn’t have the right players. Di Maria and Depay were the signings which should give the offense some brilliance , but they didn’t work out. For LVGs style of football you need that individual quality on the wings like he had in Robben and Ribéry at Bayern. Also Hererra wasn’t good enough as a playmaker. LVG also failed to creat a constant moving fluid attack with the player material he had.
LVG's playing style was better in the big matches. In that he wanted us to dominate the ball and possession and chances and the scoreline. Which is a respectable aim even if it didn't work out for the most part. But we actually did have some totally dominant performances in big games under him. Spurs and Liverpool games come to mind where we played them off the park.
Whereas with Ole we will only ever win by sitting deep and countering. We will only ever win these sorts of games by conceding the position as the lesser side on the pitch from the off, and playing to counter punch. Effective but not wholly respectable.
Against weaker teams they're both as bad as each other.
Whereas with Ole we will only ever win by sitting deep and countering. We will only ever win these sorts of games by conceding the position as the lesser side on the pitch from the off, and playing to counter punch. Effective but not wholly respectable.
Against weaker teams they're both as bad as each other.
Why is that a problem? Sir Alex had his fair share of counter attacking big teams, particularly in Europe. It's always been that way, putting Park Ji Sung in midfield to put chaos in midfield, Fletcher, Anderson, it's always been that way.
The agenda that we're always sit deep is a convenient narrative to say how incompetent Ole approach big games. In reality, we did played them off the park with work rate, determination and ruthless counter attack.
Ole has produced the best football at our club since Fergie.
Part of being a Utd fan is being entertained and if someone supports the club and thinks only about the result then they are better off following another club.
Part of being a Utd fan is being entertained and if someone supports the club and thinks only about the result then they are better off following another club.
SAF approached some big games like that. By no means all of them. Barcelona in the CL semi final is quite different from a home league game against Tottenham or Chelsea or Arsenal or fecking Wolves, is it not? Certainly in the last couple of seasons SAF started playing very negative set ups against City, which never sat right with me, and almost never worked either. Think they really got in his head.
And you've obviously completely misunderstood the narrative if you think the criticism of Ole is that he's incompetent because he tries to play counter attacking football in every single game against a half-decent side. Beating the likes of City and PSG by sitting deep and counter attacking is absolutely fine, given where we are right now as a team. The criticism stems from that style being all Ole knows how to play, which as a manager at this level is obviously not good enough. We can't convincingly beat any team unless they obligingly fall into the trap, end of story.
Obviously didn't see us under Wilf McGuinness or Frank O'Farrell. Dave Sexton wasn't that good, either.
We've had a lot of bad/terrible managers in my lifetime, only Sir Matt and SAF being the exceptions really.
What is it you don't understand here? You were the only person talking about tiki-taka: the original quote posted by @do.ob did not mention that in any way or form.
Possession and dominance on the ball - these are absolute hallmarks of the modern Bayern.
People keep on saying 'LvG had a plan.' Well yes he did but that plan was to bore us all to death. I won't be surprised if his play was to make the opposition fall asleep with how boring it was.
LvG's record vs Liverpool was excellent but apart from that he was dire. The FA Cup win was nice though.
Schneiderlin-Schweinsteiger in midfield
LvG's record vs Liverpool was excellent but apart from that he was dire. The FA Cup win was nice though.
Schneiderlin-Schweinsteiger in midfield
Agreed. I just love the LVG had a plan stuff too. Yeah he had a plan of keeping posession for the sake of it and play sideways and back not to lose the ball. I remember when it was celebrated when we had a shot on goal, never mind a goal. It was extremely tiresome and boring.
Thing with LVG is that first we played some good stuff until we got spanked in that Leicester game. After that he was started to be extremely cautious, we played too defensively. Somehow though he stumbled upon that team which had a nice winning run when we beat Tottenham, Liverpool (Juanfield) and City (there were 2, 3 more games I think). It all fell down after we got beaten at Everton. Instead of just building on that formation (3-5-2 with Mata and Young on the wings, Herrera and Carrick midfield, Rooney silent domination upfront) he just scrapped everything in the next season, going with 4-2-3-1, bought BFS and Schneiderlin and it all fell dramatically apart. We were even more tiresome, boring and defensive than the year before. His managing of ADM or buying him in the 1st place sure didnt help, buying Rojo cause he's left footed, throwing younguns in the mix just for the sake of it and other stuff.
Things with Ole arent working out sadly but if anything some games were really great (PSG twice, Leipzig, beating City away). Thing is games are slowly becoming more and more like during peak LVG reign.
Thing with LVG is that first we played some good stuff until we got spanked in that Leicester game. After that he was started to be extremely cautious, we played too defensively. Somehow though he stumbled upon that team which had a nice winning run when we beat Tottenham, Liverpool (Juanfield) and City (there were 2, 3 more games I think). It all fell down after we got beaten at Everton. Instead of just building on that formation (3-5-2 with Mata and Young on the wings, Herrera and Carrick midfield, Rooney silent domination upfront) he just scrapped everything in the next season, going with 4-2-3-1, bought BFS and Schneiderlin and it all fell dramatically apart. We were even more tiresome, boring and defensive than the year before. His managing of ADM or buying him in the 1st place sure didnt help, buying Rojo cause he's left footed, throwing younguns in the mix just for the sake of it and other stuff.
Things with Ole arent working out sadly but if anything some games were really great (PSG twice, Leipzig, beating City away). Thing is games are slowly becoming more and more like during peak LVG reign.
Take heart. Sleep inducing, nightmarish, torture like football, not better than Ole's football!
For me there has been an issue with our possession play since Fergie's last few years in charge. LvG, I felt is the manager that was most determined to force the team to develop in that area, unfortunately it didn't work and slowed the team down too much, results suffered and he was too stubborn to adjust the method to get us wins regardless of his principles of possession play.
Ole is trying too to improve us in that regard, as you can see how we struggle against low-block teams, but he is at least pragmatic enough to realize that if it doesn't work against "poorer" opposition, he will go to a counter-attacking setup against good opposition.
For me, the lack of a quality defensive midfielder is what's holding us back from progressing in terms of possession play.
Ole is trying too to improve us in that regard, as you can see how we struggle against low-block teams, but he is at least pragmatic enough to realize that if it doesn't work against "poorer" opposition, he will go to a counter-attacking setup against good opposition.
For me, the lack of a quality defensive midfielder is what's holding us back from progressing in terms of possession play.
Are we talking players or play styles? I'm not bothered enough to read.
In terms of players, despite all the money spent, LVG's team was arguably our most dire team in the last years in terms of players.
In terms of players, despite all the money spent, LVG's team was arguably our most dire team in the last years in terms of players.
Caf's favorite word "Well oiled machine".
Ole's football is trash. That's when we have to draw the line between being fair or being a cnut.