LVG's United is not better than Ole's

[Bwuk]

LvG had a plan whether it was enjoyable to watch or not. We had a clear set up and style of play.

Ole doesn't. We are reliant on individual brilliance or someone winning us a penalty.

 

[snk123]

LvG had a plan whether it was enjoyable to watch or not. We had a clear set up and style of play.

Ole doesn't. We are reliant on individual brilliance or someone winning us a penalty.

Yes the plan was to suck the soul of supporters by playing the worst brand of football anyone has every seen in over 50 years.

Also, the plan was to have as much possession but ofcourse we shat our pants and had 7% possession when we needed it against Chelsea which was the highlight of LVG’s “philosophy”.

 

[Josep Dowling]

What’s the point of this argument exactly? LVG’s football in his last 6 months in charge was the worst I’ve ever seen. Do you not remember every game being 0-0 or 1-0 with one shot on goal?

As for Ole he’s way out of his depth. Negative, boring football.

The only similarities between the two is both have wasted millions in the transfer window which hasn’t exactly improved the team. And both shouldn’t have been considered for the job, let alone get it.

 

[RUCK4444]

LVG was the worst appointment the club made post-SAF, even worse that Moyes! Hear me out...

LVG is a better manager than Moyes of course however he was more damaging to the club/squad than Moyes because he had longer here and his style was totally different to the traditional United style and therefore the large amount of money he was afforded and multiple signings took us in totally the wrong direction, ultimately making our return to the top that much harder.

Starting from a shite position after sacking Moyes, we absolutely had to get the next manager right, we didn't, LVG then compounded that poor position we were in by taking us in totally the wrong direction style wise and ultimately making terrible signings on top of that.

The style of play was terrible, boring in the extreme, winning us a single cup but why which point the decision was made and rightly so.

Ole has the team playing better football, finishing higher in the league, beating better teams, longer runs of good form. There's still stacks of improvement to be made but there is absolutely no way LVG's united is better than Ole's.

 

[shaky]

I much prefer being great one week and awful the next, than be mind numbingly dull for years on end like we had with LVG.

 

[Cloud7]

The highs under LVG, like dominating Liverpool at Anfield, the game we put 4 past city etc are higher than any of the highs under Ole. These highs were few and far between. The lows under LVG were much lower than the lows under Ole. There were games where there would barely be any shots on target. These were more frequent than they are under Ole.

Sure, LVG had some sort of plan in his mind most likely, but he was well past his best and unable to really put it into effect on the field. Ironically this is a criticism also leveled at Ole. By the end of LVG’s time here we didn’t look much closer to becoming a possession based team that could beat anyone than we did at the start.

That doesn’t change the fact that I don’t think Ole is good enough, or will ever be good enough, will never win us any significant trophy and needs to be replaced. However, I’m not going to look back and say that I wish we had LVG now, because I don’t.

That being said, of all the people to compare our current manager to, our past managers really aren’t the ones to do it with. You don’t compare one person underperforming to another person who underperformed before. Where does that discussion get you? Asking to choose between being shot in the head, the heart or the balls doesn’t mean that any of those choices are desirable ones.

 

[dove]

It was the dullest football I have ever seen any team play. Remember when we struggled to have a shot on target against literally any team we played, including non league ones? It was just terrible. With LVG we were bad because of philosophy, with Ole we are bad because of complete lack of it. If LVG's team and Ole's played against each other, I can bet it would end 0-0. Neither is any better or worse than the other one. We are just bad in different ways.

 

[Stack]

LVG football was ridiculously boring. Didn't we have about ten 0-0 draws one season?

LVG was the most boring I had seen Utd play since Sextons days, in fact I think Sexton was a bit hard done by at times and I think LVGs was the worst in my lifetime.

 

[dal]

Can we not wait until he’s had a full second season to make comparisons. Next 3 games are really tricky, also think this game in hand is a poison chalice, mentally. Rather get it over with sooner rather than later.

 

[lsd]

I stopped watching us under Van Goal the football was that bad.

With Ole at his worst it is dire stuff but nowhere near the absolute boredom Van Gaal was serving up every week.

 

[100]

Ole's football is better but with Mourinho and LvG you had something historically to justify putting up with the shit football. With Ole, just like Moyes, it's increasingly looking like blind faith or faith in some romanticised version of the second coming of Fergie

 

[SuperiorXI]

feck me, short memories in here. LVG's united were a fecking disaster, towards the end it was hard to get through a game without falling asleep.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

LVG football was ridiculously boring. Didn't we have about ten 0-0 draws one season?

In the 2015-16 season, I was surprised to see it was only 5.

In 16 of the 38 league games that season though, we had five 0-0 draws, three 1-1 draws and eight 1-0 wins. On top of that we had 10 losses.

So as you can see in 26 of the 38 games that is dreadful. 8 draws only 3 goals were scored in them games, 8 wins only 8 goals were scored, 10 losses only 6 goals were scored.

26 games, 32 points out of 78 with only 17 goals scored. That is only stats as well, never mind the slow back and sideways passing for 70 minutes. Anyone that thinks we play worse football now probably can't remember this LVG season, most likely because they were asleep for most of it.

 

[Strelok]

For those who think it's a good idea to give LVG another season.

First, he sucks at transfers. Look, only Martial was left from all his transfers. And according to some he's trash as well.

Second, his philosophy. It's the tiki taka possession based football. The idea is to keep the ball as safe as you can so the opponent wouldn't have the ball to play. This would push your opponent into their own half and force them to deploy a low block most of the time. So, to score goals you'd need someone who is incredibly good with causing havocs within the opponent lines. Or Messi. I watched a few matches of the so called Barcelona under Pep where Messi didn't play and it's pretty much the same with us under LVG. I don't mean we can play like them but the boring part is basically the same. Lot of passes around the box but no penetration, just nothing. For that style of football, you'd also need a great midfield in order to win the midfield battle and dominate your opponent. Look at Pep at Bayern and City and you'd see. Even with all the talent and money there Pep couldn't reproduce his Barcelona tiki taka. We simply didn't have the players nor the money for LVG to try this.

Third, his eccentric and super rigid man management basically lost him the dressing room.

So, we're talking about a manager who was bad at transfers, not suitable tactic, boring af football, bad man management. If anyone would like him for another year then I'm just simply speechless.

 

[Paxi]

Both aren't good enough. At least LVG had an FA Cup to show for it.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Sure. But does that matter? When we struggle to break teams down that sit back (still) it doesn't mean anything that the football is better than under LVG. Sure, we should be judging him on his own merits and flaws, and at this point I can't see a case as to why he should remain in post based on what we are seeing.

 

[FootyGirl88]

For those who think it's a good idea to give LVG another season.

First, he sucks at transfers. Look, only Martial was left from all his transfers. And according to some he's trash as well.

Second, his philosophy. It's the tiki taka possession based football. The idea is to keep the ball as safe as you can so the opponent wouldn't have the ball to play. This would push your opponent into their own half and force them to deploy a low block most of the time. So, to score goals you'd need someone who is incredibly good with causing havocs within the opponent lines. Or Messi. I watched a few matches of the so called Barcelona under Pep where Messi didn't play and it's pretty much the same with us under LVG. I don't mean we can play like them but the boring part is basically the same. Lot of passes around the box but no penetration, just nothing. For that style of football, you'd also need a great midfield in order to win the midfield battle and dominate your opponent. Look at Pep at Bayern and City and you'd see. Even with all the talent and money there Pep couldn't reproduce his Barcelona tiki taka. We simply didn't have the players nor the money for LVG to try this.

Third, his eccentric and super rigid man management basically lost him the dressing room.

So, we're talking about a manager who was bad at transfers, not suitable tactic, boring af football, bad man management. If anyone would like him for another year then I'm just simply speechless.

Alot of the players including Giggs said it was coming together towards the end and the players were starting to understand what he was trying to do.

KDB said when Pep first came to City he bombarded them with alot of information. He said it was difficult to process what Pep wanted, both LVG and Pep have a similar philosophy.

 

[Strelok]

Alot of the players including Giggs said it was coming together towards the end and the players were starting to understand what he was trying to do.

KDB said when Pep first came to City he bombarded them with alot of information. He said it was difficult to process what Pep wanted, both LVG and Pep have a similar philosophy.

Imo Pep would never succeed with his philosophy in the CL. He always wants to reproduce his Barcelona tiki taka. He was successful against the smaller opponents because Bayern or City had a much better midfield than those smaller teams.

But on the CL level, it simply won't work because many teams there have an equivalent or even better midfield than Bayern or City. That Barcelona tiki taka simply died with Xavi, Iniesta. Pep's Barcelona tiki taka was able to dominate the whole world just because prime Xavi and Iniesta formed a midfield which was on another level compared to the rest. And he had prime Messi.

 

[OleBoiii]

Moyes:
Absolute train-wreck of a manager. Turned a team of champions into a midtable side.

LVG:
He was given a very tough task, but failing to get top 4 in his 2nd season was always going to lead to his sacking. Easily the most boring football I've seen. I kept falling asleep while watching us play. This had never happened before and it's not really happened since we sacked him.

Mourinho:
The most successful manager so far in the post Fergie era. I don't like him as a person, but I respect that he was able to break 80 points with a pretty mediocre team. His football wasn't very fun to watch(not nearly as bad as LVG's), though. His exit was pretty bad as well. The moment our club didn't back him in the transfer window he was visibly upset from that point and onwards. I completely understand why he was upset, but showing it in the media is suicide. He was unable to work under such circumstances, and the results quickly suffered and he clearly lost the dressing room. He was rightfully sacked.

Solskjær:
A roller-coaster of a manager. We've played some of the best and some of the worst football under him. What's funny is that you can split both his two seasons into two equally big parts, with both parts telling a completely different story. His first season was about 6 months long. In the first 3 months we were easily the best team in England. In the last 3 we were a disaster(possibly the worst so far in the Fergie era). In his second season we spent the first half playing midtable football. In the second half, we were arguably the best team in England again.

When we're in a good period, it's easily the most entertaining football post Fergie. Ole's biggest challenge is to get consistency, particularly against weaker teams. He will need to sort it out. Being excellent for half a season is not going to win trophies. Arsenal and Liverpool used to be like this, with no trophies to show for it.

 

[RUCK4444]

Moyes:
Absolute train-wreck of a manager. Turned a team of champions into a midtable side.

LVG:
He was given a very tough task, but failing to get top 4 in his 2nd season was always going to lead to his sacking. Easily the most boring football I've seen. I kept falling asleep while watching us play. This had never happened before and it's not really happened since we sacked him.

Mourinho:
The most successful manager so far in the post Fergie era. I don't like him as a person, but I respect that he was able to break 80 points with a pretty mediocre team. His football wasn't very fun to watch(not nearly as bad as LVG's), though. His exit was pretty bad as well. The moment our club didn't back him in the transfer window he was visibly upset from that point and onwards. I completely understand why he was upset, but showing it in the media is suicide. He was unable to work under such circumstances, and the results quickly suffered and he clearly lost the dressing room. He was rightfully sacked.

Solskjær:
A roller-coaster of a manager. We've played some of the best and some of the worst football under him. What's funny is that you can split both his two seasons into two equally big parts, with both parts telling a completely different story. His first season was about 6 months long. In the first 3 months we were easily the best team in England. In the last 3 we were a disaster(possibly the worst so far in the Fergie era). In his second season we spent the first half playing midtable football. In the second half, we were arguably the best team in England again.

When we're in a good period, it's easily the most entertaining football post Fergie. Ole's biggest challenge is to get consistency, particularly against weaker teams. He will need to sort it out. Being excellent for half a season is not going to win trophies. Arsenal and Liverpool used to be like this, with no trophies to show for it.

Good post. Still think LVG was the most damaging to us style & recruitment wise.

Agree on Ole as well, consistency is the key with Ole.

The good spells signal that he’s won half the battle, that he can make us click, the big question is whether he can maintain that over the course of a season.

When it’s good it’s great, but it doesn’t last.

Why I back him still though is that I believe that this is still a step better than the previous managers got themselves to (forget the Mourinho 2nd place finish, nobody thought that would last and it was still a tough watch.) If he fails to make it consistent then fine I agree he needs replacing.

 

[Dante]

Season	Manager	Shots on target per game
13/14	Moyes	4.8​
14/15	LvG	4.7​
15/16	LvG	3.8​
16/17	Mourinho	5.5​
17/18	Mourinho/Ole	4.7​
18/19	Ole	5.9​
19/20	Ole	5.7​
20/21	Ole	5.1​

LvG was terrible at United. Not just his style of play, but also his squad building.

Ole (for all his faults) has got United playing much better football, and made our squad younger and hungrier.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

LVG was putting down foundations though for future success. Ole is destroying them making it harder for the next manager.

 

[Nick7]

We’ve been shit on and off since 2013.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

LVG was putting down foundations though for future success. Ole is destroying them making it harder for the next manager.

WUM.

even the most ardent Ole Out posters will tell you OGS has build good foundations for success, ether it’s him or someone else.

 

[RkkMan]

LVG was putting down foundations though for future success. Ole is destroying them making it harder for the next manager.

Rashford, Martial and De Gea are the only bright sparks left from LVG`s era which says a lot about how shocking his squad building is, the rest of his key players are either gone or squad players at best. 90% of his signings were garbage and his football was garbage. If Ole was sacked today De Gea, Telles, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and possibly Martial/Wan Bissaka would all still remain key starters under the next manager and VDB is worth a shout plus the likes of Henderson, Fred, McTominay, Lindelof, Axel etc would be solid squad players.

 

[saivet]

LVG had the clearest plan of any manager we've had but unfortunately it was also incredibly boring. I'd rather watch this Ole team than LVG's but the standards for enjoyment are on the floor.

 

[Rossa]

The worst part of LVG was not only his tumescent football, but the way he changed the club. He transformed what most players characterized as a family where players and cleaners sat at the same table and ate lunch. LVG and his "philosophy" made it clear that players and other staff were to be separated during meals. I suppose that is why I smiled a little when Solskjær stated that he didn't like to use words like philosophy regarding football, to which I wholeheartedly agree.

LVG worked better as a valium substitute, but his football was terrible. He also came across as an arrogant pedantic character not in tune with the clubs values at all.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Years later it still makes me laugh how many people complain about LVG's tenure being so sleep inducing, because it sounds like such a huge exaggaration.

Except in this case it was literally the truth. I remember falling asleep countless of times during that time, it was actually torture. So many days I'd been looking forward to take some free time to watch United play, only to literally fall asleep before the first half ended and then wake up feeling weird and groggy an hour after the match was finished, without having missed a single worthwile thing.

Van Gaal did some good things at this club, sure. But when you make up the balance, his time here was such a massive failure and the decisions he made say an awful lot about his competence, managing ability and allround intelligence and understanding of the footballing world. And that's coming from a Dutch guy who actually wanted him to do well and had a newfound respect for the man after a very nice stint at the 2014 WC in Brazil.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Rashford, Martial and De Gea are the only bright sparks left from LVG`s era which says a lot about how shocking his squad building is, the rest of his key players are either gone or squad players at best. 90% of his signings were garbage and his football was garbage. If Ole was sacked today De Gea, Telles, Maguire, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and possibly Martial/Wan Bissaka would all still remain key starters under the next manager and VDB is worth a shout plus the likes of Henderson, Fred, McTominay, Lindelof, Axel etc would be solid squad players.

Yeah his supporters talked about his foundations though. I guess pure bullshit in terms of that boring style.

 

[R'hllor]

I have a feeling this thread is some kind of distraction

 

[OleTheGreat]

I've read so many posters here claiming LVG's United playing style is much better.

Come on now, I quite clearly remember during LVG's tenure I fell asleep so many times watching United. That was the most turd inducing playing style since I started supporting this club.

Ole United isn't all that boring, time and time again players are allowed to express themselves with flair, fast direct football and also fast break attacks.

What annoys me so much is whenever we grind the results, people are claiming LVG is way better and I'm starting to question what kind of match you guys were watching?

To those saying that LVG united is way more entertaining, tell me how is it better?

I think people have forgotten how awful it was under LvG. I was not only sleepy during the games but I often slept during his interviews as well. It was worst I have watched United play and I so wanted LvG out. Those days were the worst in the history of Manchester United. For those who think we had a plan and we focused on that, come on. We are Manchester freaking United and we were asked to sit back and hoof the ball forward. There was nothing entertaining about his football what so ever. Ole on the other hand has put together an exciting team. If only he were backed by the board like LvG was, we'd have a much better team right now. Ole and LvG, no comparison! Thank You!

 

[Idxomer]

LVG was putting down foundations though for future success. Ole is destroying them making it harder for the next manager.

He put the foundations for the fans to keep tolerating slightly less uninspiring football after him and deem it much better than before.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Louis Van Gaal had far less talent to work with - which was entirely his fault, though most of Oles signing outside of Bruno have been shockingly bad too.

I disagree most have been shockingly bad. Maguire has helped bring stability to our back line and was pretty good last season. AWB has been a defensive rock at RB ignoring his attacking threat (or lack of). James yea but I didn't expect much more from a championship player and that was a low investment. The ones bought this season haven't had enough chances yet to form an opinion but what little we have seen indicates promise (VDB/Telles/Cavani). LVGs transfers were woefully bad.

 

[united_99]

I like LvG and when we hired him I thought he would transform us.
But this “it was clear what he was trying to do, it was just not successful”, was it really clear? I am not sure. I would say based on his CV and his previous achievements it was clear what he would try to do here, but based on his time here I couldn’t tell. It was the same pointless possession game after game but he kept telling us that’s the philosophy. I do believe some players got what he was trying to do but he couldn’t translate it on the pitch for some reason.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

He put the foundations for the fans to keep tolerating slightly less uninspiring football after him and deem it much better than before.

So true. Fergie days seems so far away now.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

I sometimes switched off while watching LVG which hasn't happened in the 20 odd years of me watching United. It really was that boring. Even Jose's counterattacking is better than LVGs football.

 

[Champagne Football]

We had a shocker against West Brom because Rashford wasn't up to match rhythm and Greenwood was out meaning our best forward line was heavily blunted, but you can be certain when Greenwood and Rashford are firing on all cylinders soon that we will spank teams 4-0 again.

It's embarrassing that some whinging fans will try to make out that Ole is worse than the notorious LVG just because we had a horror show against West Brom. There were plenty of horror shows under Fergie when we played teams fighting relegation, because if you're missing a couple of key forwards then it makes life very tough to score goals.

LVG is without doubt the worst manager this club has ever had. Moysie being the 2nd worst. Ole has a thankless task of developing some talented kids now which will take time and patience, but his methods are on a different level to the other 2 clowns because he is being mentored by Phelan and Fergie.

 

[Hugh Jass]

LVG was bad folks. Boring stuff.

Although i would say that if he had the same squad that Ole has presently, he would do better i feel.

 

[Tiber]

LVG made my eyes bleed

 

[do.ob]

Van Gaal left behind a clear philosophy that the club could have expanded on. The management chose to go into an opposite direction, but that's not his fault.
What will Solskjaer leave behind?