Maguire’s value

Tom Cato

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It's funny that the discussion has been diverted into Maguire vs Koulibaly vs Upamecano. There are so many center backs all over the world and with such a huge scouting network, I'm not sure why we can't find a decent one with a reasonable price. For example Leicester has upgraded Maguire with Soyuncu using just 20m, who is equally good on the ball, much quicker, much agiler, much more athletic, and much more suited to play a high line.

Besides I've heard enough about "ball playing defenders" and honestly I'm not a fan of it as we barely benefit from it. How often do Maguire and Lindelof successfully play a direct ball through the lines and create a chance? More often than not, we give the ball away unnecessarily in dangerous positions leading to opposition's counter attack. The idea of playing out from the back is to keep the ball and bring the ball forward safely, but with the lack of quality and creativity in midfield, we usually swing the ball forward eventually, making the whole philosophy meaningless. For example the goal against Wolves came from a hopeful long ball from Maguire, just like Smalling always did.

I also don't agree with those who say transfer fee doesn't matter. Of course it does matter because if we had allocated 20m on center back, we'd have had an extra 60m for other positions, meaning we could have invested in a right winger or brought in Bruno half a season earlier. Either way could have brought a larger impact to the team.

We've allowed 2 goals in the last 11 matches. ELEVEN! If we're giving away so many chances as you seem to indicate, well, other teams have really, really bad attackers. Someone should tell Pep and Lampard their teams are dogsh*t, Harry is giving away the ball all the time.

Are you sure you're not supposed to post on the Tottenham boards?
 

RkkMan

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Leipzig play a 4-4-2 and Upamacano is their most active defender, more active than Maguire. We are more "system-based" because we have AWB

Are Sheffield United 3rd? Nope Leicester are and buying their defenders isnt a bad idea. Just not for £75 million each
Whilst AWB has also been an astute buy his performances shouldn`t be a reason to discredit Maguire. AWB has made it hard for wide players to be a threat HM has offered composure, leadership, aerial defensive solidity, bringing the ball out of the back and most importantly availability because he isn`t injury prone, not to mention being proven in the PL being a bonus. Upamecano for all his qualities has a horrible injury record and again there is no guarantee he would have offered us the same level of improvement as HM despite looking more agile. We all thought Bailly would be our next Vidic because of his agility look at him now.
As for the price at the end of the day Leicester are tough negotiators Maguire who was a proven international and PL CB was always going to cost more money than most defenders which given the circumstances was worth the gamble.
 

RkkMan

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It's funny that the discussion has been diverted into Maguire vs Koulibaly vs Upamecano. There are so many center backs all over the world and with such a huge scouting network, I'm not sure why we can't find a decent one with a reasonable price. For example Leicester has upgraded Maguire with Soyuncu using just 20m, who is equally good on the ball, much quicker, much agiler, much more athletic, and much more suited to play a high line.

Besides I've heard enough about "ball playing defenders" and honestly I'm not a fan of it as we barely benefit from it. How often do Maguire and Lindelof successfully play a direct ball through the lines and create a chance? More often than not, we give the ball away unnecessarily in dangerous positions leading to opposition's counter attack. The idea of playing out from the back is to keep the ball and bring the ball forward safely, but with the lack of quality and creativity in midfield, we usually swing the ball forward eventually, making the whole philosophy meaningless. For example the goal against Wolves came from a hopeful long ball from Maguire, just like Smalling always did.

I also don't agree with those who say transfer fee doesn't matter. Of course it does matter because if we had allocated 20m on center back, we'd have had an extra 60m for other positions, meaning we could have invested in a right winger or brought in Bruno half a season earlier. Either way could have brought a larger impact to the team.
What guarantee is there the cheaper CBs would have been an improvement?? Soyuncu who has been very inconsistent since the turn of the year has the benefit of playing next to Evans who is a solid experienced CB. Like most of these "cheaper CBs" Soyuncu would look like a headless chicken being the leading CB for Manchester United. The fact that HM has still put in good performances and remainded level headed despite facing question marks and criticism is a show of character which not many players have when they face pressure at Utd and that is a very important attribute. So HM made a mistake against a solid Wolves team which CB doesn`t?? His positives outweigh the negatives. In his case the price tag meant very little.
 

RedRoseTyke

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Reviewing some recent comments, there seems to be an assumption that players are like cogs in a machine that can be swapped in and out with no impact on performance.

I suggest that this is a wrong headed view and fit with other players is just as important, as is social role in the team. Harry M seems to be a strong influence and replacing him with another player may impact on team chemistry in an adverse manner; and the incoming player may not deliver, either, we've seen that a few times in the last seasons.

£80m is a balance sheet figure, to be depreciated against tax, that's a business transaction made in the context of the business environment.

Harry's sporting value is assessed by a combination of developing the soul of the team and also being a pretty decent centre back, that's a football transaction.

The two are very different.
 

Ekeke

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Whilst AWB has also been an astute buy his performances shouldn`t be a reason to discredit Maguire. AWB has made it hard for wide players to be a threat HM has offered composure, leadership, aerial defensive solidity, bringing the ball out of the back and most importantly availability because he isn`t injury prone, not to mention being proven in the PL being a bonus. Upamecano for all his qualities has a horrible injury record and again there is no guarantee he would have offered us the same level of improvement as HM despite looking more agile. We all thought Bailly would be our next Vidic because of his agility look at him now.
As for the price at the end of the day Leicester are tough negotiators Maguire who was a proven international and PL CB was always going to cost more money than most defenders which given the circumstances was worth the gamble.
So you think Soyuncu would cost more than £75 million?

Its obviously a combination of Maguire and AWB. But AWB brings something special that other teams dont have defensively. Our CBs have had less to do because of it so talking like he's the only change thats led to a better defensive record is daft.

Besides which once again Leicester are in a better league position and have a better defensive record than we have, and we had a better defensive record the season before last. Maguire has clearly been our most solid CB but thats it.
 

Ekeke

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Yes, that is why players have come out and spoken well about Maguire.

So you know AWB personally? that he doesnt need to be led? a 22 year old having played one season in the PL playing at OT doesn't need to be led?

Leadership comes in more than one form, not just your defensive partners. He has clearly had a good influence on the team and the players.

I know you have an issue with Lindelof, we have conceded the 2nd lowest goals from open play this season. 15 in comparison to 13 of Liverpool.

Not bad for a defence that has weak CB.
So who came out and spoke badly about Jones, Smalling and Bailly?

How do you know Maguire doesnt need to be led by the person doing the best job defending this season, AWB? You've just assumed it.

Yes the record has been pretty good. The reason is AWB being the best defensive rightback in the world, something no other CB has for them. Maguire has been fine but obviously you dont expect fine for £75 million, you're looking for as close to VVD as possible - and he doesnt need AWB cancelling out an entire side of the pitch for him.

Neither did Southampton not replace him and yet have a better defensive record without him.
 

cyril C

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Reviewing some recent comments, there seems to be an assumption that players are like cogs in a machine that can be swapped in and out with no impact on performance.

I suggest that this is a wrong headed view and fit with other players is just as important, as is social role in the team. Harry M seems to be a strong influence and replacing him with another player may impact on team chemistry in an adverse manner; and the incoming player may not deliver, either, we've seen that a few times in the last seasons.

£80m is a balance sheet figure, to be depreciated against tax, that's a business transaction made in the context of the business environment.

Harry's sporting value is assessed by a combination of developing the soul of the team and also being a pretty decent centre back, that's a football transaction.

The two are very different.
Don't know it was the original intention, or simply being highjacked into a new CB discussion.

I believe the original debate, was whether another seasoned and experienced CB could be available, at lesser price, and able to replace Maguire straight away. Such that we could sell Maguire at 80m and buy a replacement cheaper.

The debate drifted into comparing CB in other league, including young CB who is yet to prove himself at their own league, let alone EPL.

My thought is that if you are going to REPLACE Maguire 1 for 1 and straight away, no if or when, he must be either EPL experienced, or well established international player like Varane for example. Try that for 60m or lessor.
 

hmchan

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So who came out and spoke badly about Jones, Smalling and Bailly?

How do you know Maguire doesnt need to be led by the person doing the best job defending this season, AWB? You've just assumed it.

Yes the record has been pretty good. The reason is AWB being the best defensive rightback in the world, something no other CB has for them. Maguire has been fine but obviously you dont expect fine for £75 million, you're looking for as close to VVD as possible - and he doesnt need AWB cancelling out an entire side of the pitch for him.

Neither did Southampton not replace him and yet have a better defensive record without him.
Maybe we just have to accept someone only expect leadership, calmness and composure for 75m. Evans is worth 75m in this sense though.
 

RedRoseTyke

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Don't know it was the original intention, or simply being highjacked into a new CB discussion.

I believe the original debate, was whether another seasoned and experienced CB could be available, at lesser price, and able to replace Maguire straight away. Such that we could sell Maguire at 80m and buy a replacement cheaper.

The debate drifted into comparing CB in other league, including young CB who is yet to prove himself at their own league, let alone EPL.

My thought is that if you are going to REPLACE Maguire 1 for 1 and straight away, no if or when, he must be either EPL experienced, or well established international player like Varane for example. Try that for 60m or lessor.
Fair comment .... and it may still not work out.
 

romufc

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So who came out and spoke badly about Jones, Smalling and Bailly?

How do you know Maguire doesnt need to be led by the person doing the best job defending this season, AWB? You've just assumed it.

Yes the record has been pretty good. The reason is AWB being the best defensive rightback in the world, something no other CB has for them. Maguire has been fine but obviously you dont expect fine for £75 million, you're looking for as close to VVD as possible - and he doesnt need AWB cancelling out an entire side of the pitch for him.

Neither did Southampton not replace him and yet have a better defensive record without him.
I don't think you are getting the point. I was talking about leadership, not how good or not Maguire is as a player. I havent heard anyone come out and talk about Jones, Smalling and Bailly's leadership skills.

Maybe because you are chosen as a captain because you are a leader, it's not something Ole said you know what, you are my expensive signing so here you go.

So in your opinion the reason why we are defensively better is because of one player, not collective. I not once have said we are better defensively because of Maguire alone. It seems you are suggesting if we had AWB and 2/3 fine defenders we would still concede the same amount of goals.

Maguire plays on the left side btw. I am sure you are aware one defender cannot cover the width of the pitch whilst defending.

Maguire is not a £80m player on the pitch, but we didnt pay that just because of his abilities on the pitch. There are various reasons:

1. One of the best PL CB's
2. Would slot in seemlessly
3. A leader
4. Motivated
5. Knows the league
6. A good personality

And if you keep want to talk about the fee, AWB for £50m should be more than just a defensive RB. £50m for a right back gets you the BEST RB. He is doing his defensive duties well but other than that...

However; Unlike you I am not complaining because I can see the benefits of such a signing to the team.
 

Ekeke

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I don't think you are getting the point. I was talking about leadership, not how good or not Maguire is as a player. I havent heard anyone come out and talk about Jones, Smalling and Bailly's leadership skills.

Maybe because you are chosen as a captain because you are a leader, it's not something Ole said you know what, you are my expensive signing so here you go.

So in your opinion the reason why we are defensively better is because of one player, not collective. I not once have said we are better defensively because of Maguire alone. It seems you are suggesting if we had AWB and 2/3 fine defenders we would still concede the same amount of goals.

Maguire plays on the left side btw. I am sure you are aware one defender cannot cover the width of the pitch whilst defending.

Maguire is not a £80m player on the pitch, but we didnt pay that just because of his abilities on the pitch. There are various reasons:

1. One of the best PL CB's
2. Would slot in seemlessly
3. A leader
4. Motivated
5. Knows the league
6. A good personality

And if you keep want to talk about the fee, AWB for £50m should be more than just a defensive RB. £50m for a right back gets you the BEST RB. He is doing his defensive duties well but other than that...

However; Unlike you I am not complaining because I can see the benefits of such a signing to the team.
Maguire is solid, AWB is special, Lindelof is weak and Shaw can be solid

Having AWB as your right back is like playing with a cheat code for a CB
 

romufc

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Maguire is solid, AWB is special, Lindelof is weak and Shaw can be solid

Having AWB as your right back is like playing with a cheat code for a CB
Agreed. Lindelof is the weakest link in the back 4.

Going forward, with all the uncertainty I doubt we will sign another CB.

Assuming there will be lack of transfer activity this summer, we need to target a RW and CM before CB. Give Smalling and Lindelof the chance to fight it out.
 

RedRonaldo

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I don't want to be mean, but Leicester defensive record has improved alot since Maguire leaving.

With Maguire
17-18: 60 goals conceded in 38 games (avg concede 1.57 goals per game)
18-19: 48 goals conceded in 38 games (avg concede 1.26 goals per game)

Without Maguire (basically the same squad minus Maguire)
19-20: 28 goals conceded in 29 games (avg concede 0.966 goals per game)

Apparently Leicester is not missing Maguire "leadership" or "presence" in the team, they are better off without him.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I don't want to be mean, but Leicester defensive record has improved alot since Maguire leaving.

With Maguire
17-18: 60 goals conceded in 38 games (avg concede 1.57 goals per game)
18-19: 48 goals conceded in 38 games (avg concede 1.26 goals per game)

Without Maguire (basically the same squad minus Maguire)
19-20: 28 goals conceded in 29 games (avg concede 0.966 goals per game)

Apparently Leicester is not missing Maguire "leadership" or "presence" in the team, they are better off without him.
Leicester only had Rodgers for less than half season when Maguire was at Leicester, Leicester defensive record improvement wasn’t based on Maguire‘s leaving but based on Rodgers arrival.
 

RkkMan

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So you think Soyuncu would cost more than £75 million?

Its obviously a combination of Maguire and AWB. But AWB brings something special that other teams dont have defensively. Our CBs have had less to do because of it so talking like he's the only change thats led to a better defensive record is daft.

Besides which once again Leicester are in a better league position and have a better defensive record than we have, and we had a better defensive record the season before last. Maguire has clearly been our most solid CB but thats it.
My point was not whether Soyuncu is worth 75m but if he would have been a guaranteed upgrade on our defence just because he seemed to be the cheaper option to HM despite the fact playing next to an experienced CB in Evans is why he looks solid. If he was our leading CB like HM he wouldn`t even be worth 10m. HM is much more proven and that`s what we needed. Read my post again I never said he was the ONLY change I said he`s still massively improved us in the middle of defence even with AWB`s excellent performances and quality. Notice how all of our CB`s best games this season have come playing next to Maguire. Our defence would be much more leaky in the middle especially in high pressure games if we had combinations like Bailly/Lindelof, Tuanzebe/Bailly, Tuanzebe/Lindelof Jones with anyone etc even with Wan Bissaka. In short we`d be a worse team without HM not better or on the same level.
 

RedRoseTyke

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My point was not whether Soyuncu is worth 75m but if he would have been a guaranteed upgrade on our defence just because he seemed to be the cheaper option to HM despite the fact playing next to an experienced CB in Evans is why he looks solid. If he was our leading CB like HM he wouldn`t even be worth 10m. HM is much more proven and that`s what we needed. Read my post again I never said he was the ONLY change I said he`s still massively improved us in the middle of defence even with AWB`s excellent performances and quality. Notice how all of our CB`s best games this season have come playing next to Maguire. Our defence would be much more leaky in the middle especially in high pressure games if we had combinations like Bailly/Lindelof, Tuanzebe/Bailly, Tuanzebe/Lindelof Jones with anyone etc even with Wan Bissaka. In short we`d be a worse team without HM not better or on the same level.
I think you have produced an excellent summary of the situation. Too many posters on here take a binary position. Football teams always contain trade offs - the main thing is that the team is progressing and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that our current team is developing well, with headroom for more improvements to drive a title challenge in the future.
 

Ekeke

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My point was not whether Soyuncu is worth 75m but if he would have been a guaranteed upgrade on our defence just because he seemed to be the cheaper option to HM despite the fact playing next to an experienced CB in Evans is why he looks solid. If he was our leading CB like HM he wouldn`t even be worth 10m. HM is much more proven and that`s what we needed. Read my post again I never said he was the ONLY change I said he`s still massively improved us in the middle of defence even with AWB`s excellent performances and quality. Notice how all of our CB`s best games this season have come playing next to Maguire. Our defence would be much more leaky in the middle especially in high pressure games if we had combinations like Bailly/Lindelof, Tuanzebe/Bailly, Tuanzebe/Lindelof Jones with anyone etc even with Wan Bissaka. In short we`d be a worse team without HM not better or on the same level.
Yes Maguire is easily our best CB this season. I dont think that makes him a £75 million player though and I dont think we'd have a very good record without AWB at the back doing as much or more than a 3rd CB would.
 

RedRoseTyke

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I dont think that makes him a £75 million player though

But he is, because that was the cost of acquiring him (the asset). Don't conflate business with the team, the fact is that he has improved our team performance, as have others. AWB has done a very good job, too - he was also an expensive asset to acquire, but again that's a business transaction. Assets are depreciated on the balance sheet and depreciation charged against tax.

As Harry's 'book value' will reduce over the years, does that mean he gets to be a better value player? When he's 29 and the book value has dropped by whatever, will you feel happier?
 

cyril C

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Agreed. Lindelof is the weakest link in the back 4.

Going forward, with all the uncertainty I doubt we will sign another CB.

Assuming there will be lack of transfer activity this summer, we need to target a RW and CM before CB. Give Smalling and Lindelof the chance to fight it out.
I would disagree with that. Although CB should not be our top priority, we do have a few ammo in reserved. Current business climate means more likely to go for players swapping instead of outright purchase, including the Spanish giants and Italian giants. We have Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo, Smalling to spare, in return for a RW, a CB. Player + cash would be tempting to many cash strapped clubs.
 

Vissy

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I don't want to be mean, but Leicester defensive record has improved alot since Maguire leaving.

With Maguire
17-18: 60 goals conceded in 38 games (avg concede 1.57 goals per game)
18-19: 48 goals conceded in 38 games (avg concede 1.26 goals per game)

Without Maguire (basically the same squad minus Maguire)
19-20: 28 goals conceded in 29 games (avg concede 0.966 goals per game)

Apparently Leicester is not missing Maguire "leadership" or "presence" in the team, they are better off without him.
They've also made more fouls & conceded more shots per game - 29 games played and Schmeichel has made 80 saves according to the PL website stats, compared to 18/19 with 38 matches played and 90 saves. They're also making way fewer headed clearances per match (one of Maguire's strong points) and their tackle success ratio hasn't gone up. Maguire wins around 70% of his aerial duels whereas Soyuncu wins around 60%. Maguire completes more long balls per match as well. I think Leicester has improved as a whole, which has somewhat masked them losing Maguire. Soyuncu isn't really better than Maguire at anything.
 

romufc

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I would disagree with that. Although CB should not be our top priority, we do have a few ammo in reserved. Current business climate means more likely to go for players swapping instead of outright purchase, including the Spanish giants and Italian giants. We have Lingard, Periera, Jones, Rojo, Smalling to spare, in return for a RW, a CB. Player + cash would be tempting to many cash strapped clubs.
I understand some fans want a new CB but really, there aren'y many available. Really, no one is going to take Lingard, Perreira, Smalling, Rojo as part payment for a CB. These players are not good enough quality to get into the teams we want to do business with.

If we are predicting a lack of transfers, would a CB be crucial this summer? We have Bailly, Lindelof, Maguire, Tuanzebe and Smalling coming back.
 

hmchan

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We've allowed 2 goals in the last 11 matches. ELEVEN! If we're giving away so many chances as you seem to indicate, well, other teams have really, really bad attackers. Someone should tell Pep and Lampard their teams are dogsh*t, Harry is giving away the ball all the time.

Are you sure you're not supposed to post on the Tottenham boards?
My point was not whether Soyuncu is worth 75m but if he would have been a guaranteed upgrade on our defence just because he seemed to be the cheaper option to HM despite the fact playing next to an experienced CB in Evans is why he looks solid. If he was our leading CB like HM he wouldn`t even be worth 10m. HM is much more proven and that`s what we needed. Read my post again I never said he was the ONLY change I said he`s still massively improved us in the middle of defence even with AWB`s excellent performances and quality. Notice how all of our CB`s best games this season have come playing next to Maguire. Our defence would be much more leaky in the middle especially in high pressure games if we had combinations like Bailly/Lindelof, Tuanzebe/Bailly, Tuanzebe/Lindelof Jones with anyone etc even with Wan Bissaka. In short we`d be a worse team without HM not better or on the same level.
With the introduction of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka, we've allowed 30 goals this season with 9 games to play. On the contrary, we only conceded 29 and 28 respectively in 16/17 and 17/18 using the combination of Smalling/Bailly, Smalling/Jones etc. Maybe our CBs' best games are better playing next to Smalling?
 

Tom Cato

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With the introduction of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka, we've allowed 30 goals this season with 9 games to play. On the contrary, we only conceded 29 and 28 respectively in 16/17 and 17/18 using the combination of Smalling/Bailly, Smalling/Jones etc. Maybe our CBs' best games are better playing next to Smalling?
This has a lot to do with player form, and chemistry, something that will change year to year. Can you imagine Phil Jones in defense this season?

There is a case to be made for Smalling, he's hed a phenomenal season in Roma, but its anyones guess if that will translate to Manchester United.
 

hmchan

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This has a lot to do with player form, and chemistry, something that will change year to year. Can you imagine Phil Jones in defense this season?

There is a case to be made for Smalling, he's hed a phenomenal season in Roma, but its anyones guess if that will translate to Manchester United.
Chemistry and form, the same could apply to Maguire. Yes he's been doing fairly well as an individual this season, but it's a bit over for me to give all the credits to his so-called leadership, calmness, composure etc, all those mentality stuffs. For me these are just attempted delusions for his unreasonable and unjustifiable price tag, just like how Ole keeps praising James' positive mentality when he apparently lacks the quality.
 

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The difference between Maguire's captaincy and Young/Valencia's is enormous.

Who would have thought it would better to give the armband to an important first team player with proven leadership skills instead of a 34 year old squad player who has been at the club for a long time. It also helps that he is capable of speaking English and doesn't hate talking to the media.
 

RkkMan

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With the introduction of Maguire and Wan-Bissaka, we've allowed 30 goals this season with 9 games to play. On the contrary, we only conceded 29 and 28 respectively in 16/17 and 17/18 using the combination of Smalling/Bailly, Smalling/Jones etc. Maybe our CBs' best games are better playing next to Smalling?
In those two seasons Smalling, Bailly and Jones had the benefit of having De Gea at his absolute prime in goal who was masking their mistakes and weaknesses. Despite De Gea being error prone again this season after last season Liverpool and Sheffield are the only teams to concede more goals than us in the PL this season which is a big improvement from a defence that conceded 50 premier league goals last season. Our current defensive stature as a unit is more impressive than it was under Mourinho.
 
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hmchan

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In those two seasons Smalling, Bailly and Jones had the benefit of having De Gea at his absolute prime in goal who was masking their mistakes and weaknesses. Despite De Gea being error prone again this season after last season Liverpool are the only team to concede more goals than us in the PL this season which is a big improvement from a defence that conceded 50 premier league goals last season. Our current defensive stature as a unit is more impressive than it was under Mourinho.
It's true that de Gea is error prone this season, but he has made more saves per match this season (2.62) than in 16/17 (2.11). Are you suggesting he's masking Maguire & co's mistakes and weaknesses by your logic? For the bolded part I really don't understand what you mean, but for the record Leicester and Sheffield have conceded fewer than us this season.
 

romufc

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It's true that de Gea is error prone this season, but he has made more saves per match this season (2.62) than in 16/17 (2.11). Are you suggesting he's masking Maguire & co's mistakes and weaknesses by your logic? For the bolded part I really don't understand what you mean, but for the record Leicester and Sheffield have conceded fewer than us this season.
I dont understand why comparing stats from 3 seasons ago helps but ok.

Do you know tactics play a big part in defence, and it is not based on one player? Did that team play alot of the season without its best players? without recognised DM's? attacking football?

It doesn't take an expert to see that Maguire has improved the defence along with AWB.
 

lex talionis

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No, I would not sell Maguire for the 80m (no idea what his wages are) transfer fee we paid for him. If Real submitted a bid of 120m I'd give it serious thought. An offer north of 130m were submitted, I'd take it.

Maguire has been immense for us this season. After a difficult spell near the end of 2019, when we acquired Bruno, our team defending has been fantastic and the explanation begins with Maguire. Not just Maguire of course, but he's become the rock who earned the captain's armband and wears it well.
 

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Wonder where the Leicester fan who was stating he wasn’t a leader and needed an experienced player like Evans alongside him to direct him, went to. Quite a few soaked that tripe up!
I don't remember that. I do remember some of them saying that his form fell off last season and Evans was the better player for that season. Nothing about his leadership.
 

RedRoseTyke

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I don't remember that. I do remember some of them saying that his form fell off last season and Evans was the better player for that season. Nothing about his leadership.
I do and thought the Leicester fan was a grumpy Scandinavian midget who lived under a bridge ;-) (aka troll).
 

RkkMan

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It's true that de Gea is error prone this season, but he has made more saves per match this season (2.62) than in 16/17 (2.11). Are you suggesting he's masking Maguire & co's mistakes and weaknesses by your logic? For the bolded part I really don't understand what you mean, but for the record Leicester and Sheffield have conceded fewer than us this season.
Ooh I meant Liverpool and Sheffield(post edited). Leicester have conceded 30 goals as well just like us go check on the PL website. If you use the eye test though this season we haven`t been on dependent on De Gea bailing us out of matches compared to other seasons our defenders have done a good job at preventing more clear cut chances which makes DDG`s saves seem relative because most of his saves this season have been routine. If you want context how many times this season has De Gea had to deal with constant wave after wave attacks like he did against say Arsenal the last two seasons?? He had to make at least one spectacular save almost every game under Jose.
 

hmchan

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I dont understand why comparing stats from 3 seasons ago helps but ok.

Do you know tactics play a big part in defence, and it is not based on one player? Did that team play alot of the season without its best players? without recognised DM's? attacking football?

It doesn't take an expert to see that Maguire has improved the defence along with AWB.
Yet many in this post suggest Maguire is carrying the defence on his own and give him all the credits, maybe it's time for you to educate them that tactics play a larger part than a single individual in defence. It's also worth to mention that we often switch to a back 3/back 5 in big games this season, where Maguire has more help from the extra centre back.

It doesn't take an expert to see Maguire isn't worth 80m, despite he's doing fairly well in his part.
 

hmchan

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Ooh I meant Liverpool and Sheffield(post edited). Leicester have conceded 30 goals as well just like us go check on the PL website. If you use the eye test though this season we haven`t been on dependent on De Gea bailing us out of matches compared to other seasons our defenders have done a good job at preventing more clear cut chances which makes DDG`s saves seem relative because most of his saves this season have been routine. If you want context how many times this season has De Gea had to deal with constant wave after wave attacks like he did against say Arsenal the last two seasons?? He had to make at least one spectacular save almost every game under Jose.
Leicester have only conceded 28 goals this season.

Speaking of clear cut chances, the xGA in 16/17 is 31.62 in 38 games, while the figure is 30.56 in 29 games this season. To put it simple, it means we are better in preventing clear cut chances back then.
 

romufc

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Yet many in this post suggest Maguire is carrying the defence on his own and give him all the credits, maybe it's time for you to educate them that tactics play a larger part than a single individual in defence. It's also worth to mention that we often switch to a back 3/back 5 in big games this season, where Maguire has more help from the extra centre back.

It doesn't take an expert to see Maguire isn't worth 80m, despite he's doing fairly well in his part.
Well, I cannot speak for the majority but a defence works as a unit, why do you think the likes of SU and Leicester have a good defensive record? Not because they have the best individual defenders but they are a good defensive unit.

The reason we go 5 at the back is not because we have weak defenders rather it gives us a different counter attacking option leaving 2 up top.

Yes Maguire as a defender is not worth £80m, but he is worth near enough that to Manchester United with everything else he brings.

I listened to his podcast and he mentioned how he thrives on big games, pressure games, which if we want to be successful, we will need more of these players.