Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

romufc

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I love this partneship. There were two situations where they were pressed in penalty box but they calmly dealt with it without panicking or kicking the ling ball. I loved that. Smalling and Jones would kick the ball out of play.
This is exactly what Ole wanted, playing out from the back, composure. Kicking it long works if you are under immense pressure. Today the pressure was not there, they were composed played out and counter attacked.
 

Adnan

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Giggs saying that both Maguire and Lindelof are exposed when the fullbacks are pushed high and wide. He also says Lindelof wasn't quick enough to cover for the Spurs goal. 7:29 of the video if anyone is interested.

Ignore the title of the video it's very misleading..

 

edcunited1878

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Giggs saying that both Maguire and Lindelof are exposed when the fullbacks are pushed high and wide. He also says Lindelof wasn't quick enough to cover for the Spurs goal. 7:29 of the video if anyone is interested.

Ignore the title of the video it's very misleading..

Lindelof had to cover the runner behind him and the space in front before covering the entire space. A square ball would have beaten Lindelof and not prevented a shot on goal.

And fullbacks pushing up expose any CBs, that's nothing new in isolation. The goal Spurs scored was from a goal kick by Lloris in which Rashford and United lost the 2nd ball and Fred was already behind Berdjwin when he was controlling the ball and bearing down towards Maguire and goal. Fred could have and should have fouled the player, but that's hindsight. Shaw committed a good yellow card foul yesterday and he also got bollocked by Maguire who said fecking shut on or whatever because he almost lost a 2nd ball leading to a potential breakaway chance for Sheffield.

Anywho, the partnership is very solid, but both players do have the same weakness in that they aren't the quickest or more agile so it's a valid concern it's not the most ideal partnership but it's still good.
 

Adnan

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Lindelof had to cover the runner behind him and the space in front before covering the entire space. A square ball would have beaten Lindelof and not prevented a shot on goal.

And fullbacks pushing up expose any CBs, that's nothing new in isolation. The goal Spurs scored was from a goal kick by Lloris in which Rashford and United lost the 2nd ball and Fred was already behind Berdjwin when he was controlling the ball and bearing down towards Maguire and goal. Fred could have and should have fouled the player, but that's hindsight. Shaw committed a good yellow card foul yesterday and he also got bollocked by Maguire who said fecking shut on or whatever because he almost lost a 2nd ball leading to a potential breakaway chance for Sheffield.

Anywho, the partnership is very solid, but both players do have the same weakness in that they aren't the quickest or more agile so it's a valid concern it's not the most ideal partnership but it's still good.
Fullbacks pushing up don't expose any CBs. I've been watching RB Leipzig for a couple of seasons now and both Konate and Upamecano are very strong in similar situations due to their physicality and pace and are both very good on the ball.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Giggs saying that both Maguire and Lindelof are exposed when the fullbacks are pushed high and wide. He also says Lindelof wasn't quick enough to cover for the Spurs goal. 7:29 of the video if anyone is interested.

Ignore the title of the video it's very misleading..
This is nothing new really. They're both good fairly solid CBs who will give you stability but not excellence. Maguire is the better of the two with his ability to dominate situations but also struggles against pace and agility and shown by his woeful effort against Spurs. Lindelof gets by and tries hard, but he's the safest defender I've ever seen and his general approach to defending is to contain. That doesn't cut it in a team that wants to really go places for me. He's backups CB material for me.

Given the standard of CBs these days this isn't a priority now especially when you consider the defensive quality of our fullbacks.
 

edcunited1878

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Fullbacks pushing up don't expose any CBs. I've been watching RB Leipzig for a couple of seasons now and both Konate and Upamecano are very strong in similar situations due to their physicality and pace and are both very good on the ball.
I'll disagree on you that when fullbacks push up and are in the thick of it, CBs are exposed. Chasing balls and sweeping up the channels are something that Maguire and Lindelof usually handle. But you're still exposed and responsible for that area especially if you're 1 v 1 and your CB partner has to cover the middle with the GK communicating about potential runners and seeing what's potentially developing after the 1 v 1. Then a fullback or central mid has to slot into the space to defend/go with runners.
 

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I'll disagree on you that when fullbacks push up and are in the thick of it, CBs are exposed. Chasing balls and sweeping up the channels are something that Maguire and Lindelof usually handle. But you're still exposed and responsible for that area especially if you're 1 v 1 and your CB partner has to cover the middle with the GK communicating about potential runners and seeing what's potentially developing after the 1 v 1. Then a fullback or central mid has to slot into the space to defend/go with runners.
What you're referring to is a proactive approach that not every CB can deal with. Some CBs are more exposed than others and our current two have a weakness in that particular department and playing both as a pair isn't gonna work. We will be exposed against quality opposition with the current pairing if we decide to impose our game because speed kills, like City's CBs found out against Chelsea's pacy attackers.

There's CBs around Europe who are very adept at defending space and in one v ones. They allow a coach to play a more proactive game which minimizes the risk factor due to their attributes. The two CBs at RBL are perfect for such a role and also allow their coach (Julien Nagelsmann) to take risks with his tactics/strategy. I don't believe Nagelsmann's aggressive high press would be anywhere near as successful if he had our current pairing due to the German coach trying to force the opposition to hit it long which is meat and drink for his CBs.
 

edcunited1878

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What you're referring to is a proactive approach that not every CB can deal with. Some CBs are more exposed than others and our current two have a weakness in that particular department and playing both as a pair isn't gonna work. We will be exposed against quality opposition with the current pairing if we decide to impose our game because speed kills, like City's CBs found out against Chelsea's pacy attackers.

There's CBs around Europe who are very adept at defending space and in one v ones. They allow a coach to play a more proactive game which minimizes the risk factor due to their attributes. The two CBs at RBL are perfect for such a role and also allow their coach (Julien Nagelsmann) to take risks with his tactics/strategy. I don't believe Nagelsmann's aggressive high press would be anywhere near as successful if he had our current pairing due to the German coach trying to force the opposition to hit it long which is meat and drink for his CBs.
United have beaten City 3 times and I think Chelsea twice this year alone? We all know the pairing of Maguire and Lindelf isn't without issue, but it's not nearly as bad as many believe.

And RBL have very good and smart midfielders who also allow for success at RBL. The middle of that RBL squad is a handful.

Bailly isn't injured so then what's stopping him from overtaking Lindelof? A lot of those mental and awareness skills one would think, plus overall composure is what sets him back. Bailly pretty much wipes the floor versus Lindelof in those physical and proactive nuances.

The Magure and Lindelof partnership has worked. They are not the reason why United struggled to create clear chances to score 2 goals in the beginning of the season. They've done their fair share.

Look at who challenges for the league and you'll see those teams scoring at least 75 goals for across the PL season. That's approximately 2 goals per game. That is the standard. The issue isn't the CBs, it's the goal creation and goal outputs.
 

Adnan

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United have beaten City 3 times and I think Chelsea twice this year alone? We all know the pairing of Maguire and Lindelf isn't without issue, but it's not nearly as bad as many believe.

And RBL have very good and smart midfielders who also allow for success at RBL. The middle of that RBL squad is a handful.

Bailly isn't injured so then what's stopping him from overtaking Lindelof? A lot of those mental and awareness skills one would think, plus overall composure is what sets him back. Bailly pretty much wipes the floor versus Lindelof in those physical and proactive nuances.

The Magure and Lindelof partnership has worked. They are not the reason why United struggled to create clear chances to score 2 goals in the beginning of the season. They've done their fair share.

Look at who challenges for the league and you'll see those teams scoring at least 75 goals for across the PL season. That's approximately 2 goals per game. That is the standard. The issue isn't the CBs, it's the goal creation and goal outputs.
So we've beaten City etc many times but are no where near to challenging for the league. The league table doesn't lie and is a far better barometer of where we're as a team. We've also adopted a reactive approach and taken advantage of our fast attackers which has helped us beat those teams because of the vacated space on offer. Those teams setup to dominate while we were setup to counter which suits both Maguire and Lindelof who defended deep with both fullbacks for support.

Yes RBL have decent midfielders..

Not sure why you're mentioning Bailly when I quite clearly gave you two names who are playing under Nagelsmann and allow him to push up the back line very high and also help with the press.

Yes those teams have better attackers than ours and it's the main reason they so score alot of goals. But their CBs and fullbacks are pushed up and help with putting the squeeze on the opposition and help dominate the ball. Their CBs play a high risk game and in Liverpool's case they have very pacy CBs who are good on the ball and are strong at both playing a high-line or defending deep.
 
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Red_toad

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Look at who challenges for the league and you'll see those teams scoring at least 75 goals for across the PL season. That's approximately 2 goals per game. That is the standard. The issue isn't the CBs, it's the goal creation and goal outputs.
Only team who’ve challenged for the league won it and they’re solid defensively, so their attackers don’t have to worry about defenders being caught out. Our attackers have to cover a lot of ground which is detrimental to improving our attacking play.
 

devilish

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We need to understand how much help our CBs got this season. Till January we played with two defensive full backs, a defensive CM made up of Fred, McT and/or Matic + James as RW. Such level of defensive cover can't be sustained in a title contending team. We need at least one attacking full back and Pogba + Bruno need to play regularly with someone like Sancho as RW.

I honestly struggle to understand what Lindelof bring to the table. His distribution of the ball is decent but hardly spectacular. His weak in terms of aerial dominance, he's slow and he's not physical. Put a fast top quality CB alongside Maguire and we would be flying.
 

Adnan

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We need to understand how much help our CBs got this season. Till January we played with two defensive full backs, a defensive CM made up of Fred, McT and/or Matic + James as RW. Such level of defensive cover can't be sustained in a title contending team. We need at least one attacking full back and Pogba + Bruno need to play regularly with someone like Sancho as RW.

I honestly struggle to understand what Lindelof bring to the table. His distribution of the ball is decent but hardly spectacular. His weak in terms of aerial dominance, he's slow and he's not physical. Put a fast top quality CB alongside Maguire and we would be flying.
Completely agree with you Dev..
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Upgrading Lindelof is one of the priority imo. He just doesn't compliment Maguire and also doesn't suit in PL football, cannot be relied on week in week out. It's not going to hurt us if we are also making centre back as our priority this summer. Bailly is injury prone while there is also a doubt whether Tuanzebe can stay fit. Maguire, a new CB & Lindelof are good options to have in the squad.
 

devilish

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Upgrading Lindelof is one of the priority imo. He just doesn't compliment Maguire and also doesn't suit in PL football, cannot be relied on week in week out. It's not going to hurt us if we are also making centre back as our priority this summer. Bailly is injury prone while there is also a doubt whether Tuanzebe can stay fit. Maguire, a new CB & Lindelof are good options to have in the squad.
I agree. However I still think we need to strengthen RW and DM first. If Pogba leaves then another creative CM is a must. Once Ighalo leaves we need to either add another striker or a RW as backup (and then play Greenwood upfront)
 

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We need to upgrade both and one of our defensive fullbacks. Our backline is good at defending but the modern day solid defences have strong and fast CB partnership with 2 attacking fullbacks.

Compared to us we have a decent CB partnership with defensive fullbacks. We're not doing it right.
 

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CB is an area with obvious scope for improvement - upgrading on Lindelof with a more suitable partner for Maguire (someone quick and good in 1v1s), shouldn't be difficult. The problem is the cost - we can't throw big money at CB while we have more pressing needs elsewhere.
 

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To be honest this thread should be renamed the De Gea, Lindelof and Maguire partnership as I think the problem is that all three of them aren't great fits together.

I think the majority of the improvement in our defensive record is that we play higher up the pitch in general and press from the front. A lot of the defending is done further up the pitch whereas under Jose we sat back and invited pressure on us. Teams are generally more scared to attack us outright now we have counter attacking pace back in the team too.

But still the goal against Spurs showed some of the issues - we have Maguire, turning circle of the titanic, playing the more aggressive centre back with Lindelof 'mopping' up. Invariably he's too slow and hesitant to make any recovery tackle and DdG is terrible at coming off his line. We've conceded a ton of goals from set pieces - I don't think we can have both Lindelof and DdG being so weak in the air together in the same team. So generally I think there is a balance issue.

In open play it'd make more sense for Maguire to be the defender who drops off, or have a quicker partner covering for him. That would stop exposing his main weakness (I'm a fan generally outside of that). And we could do with another aerially dominant CB or GK to also help at set pieces too. In practice that means getting rid of Lindelof at the very least. Ideally if Smalling could pass the football we'd have a great CB partnership.

But generally I think our defensive record masks that when it's backs to the wall we actually struggle to keep clean sheets at the key times.
 

edcunited1878

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Only team who’ve challenged for the league won it and they’re solid defensively, so their attackers don’t have to worry about defenders being caught out. Our attackers have to cover a lot of ground which is detrimental to improving our attacking play.
But you defend as a team, starting with the front line. You don't have to relentlessly close down players or restrict space for 80 minutes, but you have to do it as a team and it's calculated where everyone has to be in sync whenever you do it. Liverpool under Klopp do not press nearly as hard or for long as a team as they once did. Their pressing higher up the pitch results in teams punting the ball away and giving up possession. When their midfield intercepts and presses, it's typically one or two passes before the ball is played into space behind the backline for their players to chase, which is where defenses are completely out of shape and you have Mane, Salah, Firmino, and a midfield runner exploiting the voided spaces. It's why people joke and tease about Liverpool being a long ball team in that they don't mind losing the first ball, but they pounce on the second and third balls and are precise in their attacking phase while the defending team is out of sorts from clearing the initial ball. Then you have their fullbacks who are able to swing in passes behind the lines and into space which stretches the defensive shape all ways.

City have average to good CBs, but due to their pressing and closing down of space up the pitch, they are able to maintain some shape at the back and defend from inside out. If you sit back against them, then that invites a little more pressure and few possession, but if you have the players and patience, it takes only a few pass to break them down and you're into space. They have so many technical players, which is why they are able to keep possession for so long and to continue to be threatening on the ball in opposing halves.

Our attacking issues have been against teams who sit back or congest the midfield. If the opposing team wants to push up against United and allow them to be organized in a defensive shape, they'll get picked apart especially with Bruno and Pogba in the side with the pace of James, Greenwood, Rashford, and Martial. It's clear as day.

Spurs "challenged" for the league under Poch with CBs who aren't that quick or aglie, but they were rock solid and good with the ball. However under Poch, their work rate as a team and how they pressed/closed down was very impressive. It was never a free flowing attacking team, but they had effective attackers in space mixed with the necessary flair and clinical ability - Kane, Son, Eriksen, etc.

United have been good against other Top 6 teams this year and probably haven't done too bad in recent years. However, this defensive partnership is being used as a scapegoat against United's overall weakness of scoring enough goals against teams in the bottom half of the table. It's not wrong if those teams score a goal against United, but you're telling us that United cannot fashion enough attacking play and chances to score 2 goals?

The set piece delivery, set piece goals from defenders, those are lacking as well. So to continue to question this partnership IMO is incorrect. Yes, they don't perfectly pair together or there's no one very strong all around CB who can pair with any other CB and carry them. But this partnership has been good. Can it be better, yes, but until United get that one or two significantly, clearer player(s) or if Bailly somehow overtakes Lindelof, then this is what the team is rolling with.
 

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I agree. However I still think we need to strengthen RW and DM first. If Pogba leaves then another creative CM is a must. Once Ighalo leaves we need to either add another striker or a RW as backup (and then play Greenwood upfront)
I disagree about defensive midfield here. We can hold this position off for now at least for this summer transfer window. Matic already signed another year while both Scott & Fred deserve their chance after very good performance this season. I'm more concerned with Lindelof as my regular centre back than having Scott or Fred or Matic as my defensive mid.
 

devilish

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I disagree about defensive midfield here. We can hold this position off for now at least for this summer transfer window. Matic already signed another year while both Scott & Fred deserve their chance after very good performance this season. I'm more concerned with Lindelof as my regular centre back than having Scott or Fred or Matic as my defensive mid.
Matic is on buying time and Pogba is useless in the defensive part of the game. Unless Pogba leaves and we add someone whose more defensive sound like VDB then we need a full time DM with the positioning needed to be effective in the role.
 

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Matic is on buying time and Pogba is useless in the defensive part of the game. Unless Pogba leaves and we add someone whose more defensive sound like VDB then we need a full time DM with the positioning needed to be effective in the role.
I find it weird for someone who doesn't rate Lindelof actually prefer to see another full season of Lindelof - Maguire partnership rather than a full season of Fred or Scott or Matic being rotated playing alongside Pogba & Bruno. Especially when you mentioned about our centre back got so much help by the full backs & the midfield, instead of sticking with the current midfield who done very well protecting the centre back and upgrading Lindelof first, you choose to upgrade the midfield first.
 
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VP89

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I think the partnership between the two is very good, they just need to get around the lack of pace. Lindelof is standard pace you'd expect from a centre back but Magurie is very slow - so you need to work around that.

If they set out tactically so as to not be exposed then I see no problem with them to be honest (maybe peg one full back further back on an attack so that you don't get hit as easily, or align the DM to cover a spare man).
 

SadlerMUFC

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Maguires only weakness is his speed, or lack there of it. Because of that I would prefer to see him partnered with someone faster than Lindeloff, however Bailley (who does have speed) doesn't have the positional awareness to be his every day partner. So for now Lindeloff is the best option in my opinion, but this may be an area to look at improving after we sort out other positions. The only thing is, we already have 7 defenders on the books (Maguire, Lindeloff, Bailley, Jones, Tuanzebe, Rojo and Smalling), so some will have to go before we even think about signing someone new...
 

devilish

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I find it weird for someone who doesn't rate Lindelof actually prefer to see another full season of Lindelof - Maguire partnership rather than a full season of Fred or Scott or Matic being rotated playing alongside Pogba & Bruno. Especially when you mentioned about our centre back got so much help by the full backs & the midfield, instead of sticking with the current midfield who done very well protecting the centre back and upgrading Lindelof first, you choose to upgrade the midfield first.
I don't think that one cancels the other. The club can afford 3-4 signings. Mine would be

A- A RW
B- a CB
C - a DM

And a striker or another RW in January
 

edcunited1878

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I don't think that one cancels the other. The club can afford 3-4 signings. Mine would be

A- A RW
B- a CB
C - a DM

And a striker or another RW in January
I'd take a CM who can operate in Bruno's position but still be able to be an 8 rather than a DM this coming transfer window. This new CM who is more of an 8/10 hybrid will push out Mata, Lingard, and Pereria. United cannot afford to have those 3 starting for any prolonged period of time anymore. I'd even go as far as delaying the CB and CDM signing another year to see if Tuanzebe can get fit and Bailly can gain composure (but those two things happen are more hit and hope than anything close to certain), which would allow for a RW/RF and a CM player who can be a really good fit. Unless if the club signs Sancho and believes he can fill in behind the center forward when/if Bruno is out, then allow Greenwood or James to play RW/RF.
 

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I don't think that one cancels the other. The club can afford 3-4 signings. Mine would be

A- A RW
B- a CB
C - a DM

And a striker or another RW in January
3-4 signings? Knowing that our RW main target is going to cost about 100m, 3-4 quality signing in total will cost lot of money especially post pandemic, I don't think we can afford that. 2 months ago, you thought the club will not spend more than 60m net spend and now all of sudden you changed your mind to beyond opposite.

Anyway, it seems you just changed your mind again and agree with me that a CB seems to be more priority first than a DM at the moment.
 

devilish

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3-4 signings? Knowing that our RW main target is going to cost about 100m, 3-4 quality signing in total will cost lot of money especially post pandemic, I don't think we can afford that. 2 months ago, you thought the club will not spend more than 60m net spend and now all of sudden you changed your mind to beyond opposite.

Anyway, it seems you just changed your mind again and agree with me that a CB seems to be more priority first than a DM at the moment.
First of all fees are rarely paid in cash. We did that with Maguire but that's because the club was being silly and desperate. Thus while Sancho may cost 100m, the fees would be structured in instalments paid in X years. Secondly while Sancho should be a primary target I don't think we should throw our entire budget on him either. The covid crisis had hit clubs hard especially Dortmund who can't afford to spend more then 20m for Hakimi. If they stick to their guns then I am sure we can find alternative targets such as Zaniolo, Chiesa or Ferran Torres. As said Sancho is a decent player. However I am not bought by his stats with Dortmund especially since both Kagawa and Mkhitaryan had ridiculous stats there as well.

If we want to seriously compete for the EPL then we need 5 players. LB, CB, DM, RW and STK. We've got Ighalo till January + we might get away with LB thanks to Williams. We might also get away with CB if Ole persuades Smalling to remain as I think he would be a better partner for Maguire then Lindelof is. Regarding DM. Matic has proven he's still our best DM despite the wear and tear. That's quite concerning as neither Fred and McT are considered kids anymore. Don't take me wrong, I rate them both. However we need to embrace the idea that maybe their successful transition between B2B and DM won't happen. Irrespective of that, we look set of losing 2 FIRST TEAMERS in the next 12 months. We might as well exploit this buyers market and add at least 1 midfielder now
 

devilish

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I'd take a CM who can operate in Bruno's position but still be able to be an 8 rather than a DM this coming transfer window. This new CM who is more of an 8/10 hybrid will push out Mata, Lingard, and Pereria. United cannot afford to have those 3 starting for any prolonged period of time anymore. I'd even go as far as delaying the CB and CDM signing another year to see if Tuanzebe can get fit and Bailly can gain composure (but those two things happen are more hit and hope than anything close to certain), which would allow for a RW/RF and a CM player who can be a really good fit. Unless if the club signs Sancho and believes he can fill in behind the center forward when/if Bruno is out, then allow Greenwood or James to play RW/RF.
We've got two WC players as our creative outlet (Bruno & Pogba) + a very promising kid coming up the ranks (Mejbri). Meanwhile the RW will be strengthened with a top quality winger as well. On paper that's better then Sir Alex last team who relied on an ageing Scholes/Giggs with Carrick as DM and Cleverley + Valencia as RW. Anyway that's makes another creative midfielder a nice to have but nothing more.

Matic suffered a dip in form at the beginning of the season and while he recovered from it, its evident that we're heading towards his end of career. Now if we had a hardworking CM like VDB alongside Bruno then we can try and get away with sticking Fred or McT to the DM role. Unfortunately Pogba is a bit of a liability defensive wise. Regarding CB we've got Maguire (decent but slow), Lindelof (he lacks physicality, he's shit in air, he's slow but apparently he's so good in passing the ball that it papers all the other cracks), Jones (meme 1) and Rojo (meme 2) and that kid whom everyone keep saying how good he is despite we never really saw him play and he rarely leaves the treatment room. We need a CB.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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We've got two WC players as our creative outlet (Bruno & Pogba) + a very promising kid coming up the ranks (Mejbri). Meanwhile the RW will be strengthened with a top quality winger as well. On paper that's better then Sir Alex last team who relied on an ageing Scholes/Giggs with Carrick as DM and Cleverley + Valencia as RW. Anyway that's makes another creative midfielder a nice to have but nothing more.

Matic suffered a dip in form at the beginning of the season and while he recovered from it, its evident that we're heading towards his end of career. Now if we had a hardworking CM like VDB alongside Bruno then we can try and get away with sticking Fred or McT to the DM role. Unfortunately Pogba is a bit of a liability defensive wise. Regarding CB we've got Maguire (decent but slow), Lindelof (he lacks physicality, he's shit in air, he's slow but apparently he's so good in passing the ball that it papers all the other cracks), Jones (meme 1) and Rojo (meme 2) and that kid whom everyone keep saying how good he is despite we never really saw him play and he rarely leaves the treatment room. We need a CB.
Yeah we definitely need a DM and CB with RW being priority. An ageing Matic is our only DM. People are clamouring for another AM like Grealish or VdB when Matic is the only DM that can accommodate Pogba and Bruno.

Meanwhile for the AM, if it's that you don't want to play Lingard or Pereira then we still have depth in that area with Bruno, Sancho can also play there and we can also switch to a 4-3-3 and play Pogba as the most advanced midfielder. So that's 3 solid options for the AM role that's not Lingard and Pereira. Who else can play DM well with Pogba and Bruno besides Matic?. I'd personally like a creative DM like Carrick rather than someone like an Ndidi. We have only 2 creative midfielders in Bruno and Pogba.

I'm ok with no CB for now because i can't think of any who is available that's worth buying this summer
 

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Although Koulibaly would be welcome I think Lindelof gets unnecessary grief. Sure he has his weaknesses but so does every defender or player bar one or two or the elite players in the world. Maguire has his weaknesses and mistakes. Yes Lindelofs weaknesses are physicality, heading and pace. Sounds bad but he is intelligent and his reading of the game is one of the best. I think he has the lowest mistakes leading to a goal and the maguire/lindelof partnership has one of the lowest if not the lowest mistakes leading to a goal. His passing is excellent and he is youngish especially for a cb. The defensive stats speak for themselves. Lindelof reminds me of Irwin. Not ability wise Irwin was the best of the best. But in his quiet unassuming get the job done way. He is never a 10 but always a steady 7. You know what you get with him and can hang your hat on him performing and when he gets beat its because its impossible for him to stop the attacker not because he made a mistake. Like being beat in the air. Its not because he is our of position or made a mistake. Its because the atttacker is 9ft and built like a brick sht house. Every defender has a few occasions where he will be beaten. Otherwise we would never concede.
Can we do better? sure. but unless we buy a really top cb then i dont think it would be any better. you would just replace one set of weaknesses for another.
 
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A-man

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Although Koulibaly would be welcome I think Lindelof gets unnecessary grief. Sure he has his weaknesses but so does every defender or player bar one or two or the elite players in the world. Maguire has his weaknesses and mistakes. Yes Lindelofs weaknesses are physicality, heading and pace. Sounds bad but he is intelligent and his reading of the game is one of the best. I think he has the lowest mistakes leading to a goal and the maguire/lindelof partnership has one of the lowest if not the lowest mistakes leading to a goal. His passing is excellent and he is youngish especially for a cb. The defensive stats speak for themselves. Lindelof reminds me of Irwin. Not ability wise Irwin was the best of the best. But in his quiet unassuming get the job done way. He is never a 10 but always a steady 7. You know what you get with him and can hang your hat on him performing and when he gets beat its because its impossible for him to stop the attacker not because he made a mistake. Like being beat in the air. Its not because he is our of position or made a mistake. Its because the atttacker is 9ft and built like a brick sht house. Every defender has a few occasions where he will be beaten. Otherwise we would never concede.
Can we do better? sure. but unless we buy a really top cb then i dont think it would be any better. you would just replace one set of weaknesses for another.
This is how I feel as well. There are better CBs but to jump up a level, and to really see the result like Liverpool did with VvD, we are talking about record breaking money for a CB. And it is still not guaranteed (remember Sanchez). The money are much better spent elsewhere. Look what people ask for: someone who is world class, crazy fast, great in the air, good with the ball, never injured, should compliment Maguire, etc. Where do you find someone like that?
 

Adnan

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Rio Ferdinand has just said that United have to sign a CB that can defend high and has pace. Neither Lindelof or Maguire are CBs he would back in a race from the half way line and pointed to the Liverpool defense and how they allow Klopp to send players forward in droves and also have the ability to defend attacks positioned near the half way line which is a big advantage for Liverpool.
 

Van Piorsing

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Rio Ferdinand has just said that United have to sign a CB that can defend high and has pace. Neither Lindelof or Maguire are CBs he would back in a race from the half way line and pointed to the Liverpool defense and how they allow Klopp to send players forward in droves and also have the ability to defend attacks positioned near the half way line.
So glad he said that, we can be even better than what we currently presenting.

If we push more for perfection, then sooner or later we'll go for the title.
 

izec

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Them both and De Gea are just terrible. It isn't working and there is much potential and room for improvement.

i would replace one of the CBs and De Gea without hesitation. Matic will also need to be phased out soon. Our central defensive spine need massive revamping and some Investment.
 

Oliver_

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Maybe Tuanzebe can be that "new" CB?
He looked decent in almost every game he was involved.

An all english and young back four for years to come would be fantastic:cool:

Williams-Maguire-Tuanzebe-AWB
told you *TUANZEBE*;)
 
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Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
Although Koulibaly would be welcome I think Lindelof gets unnecessary grief. Sure he has his weaknesses but so does every defender or player bar one or two or the elite players in the world. Maguire has his weaknesses and mistakes. Yes Lindelofs weaknesses are physicality, heading and pace. Sounds bad but he is intelligent and his reading of the game is one of the best. I think he has the lowest mistakes leading to a goal and the maguire/lindelof partnership has one of the lowest if not the lowest mistakes leading to a goal. His passing is excellent and he is youngish especially for a cb. The defensive stats speak for themselves. Lindelof reminds me of Irwin. Not ability wise Irwin was the best of the best. But in his quiet unassuming get the job done way. He is never a 10 but always a steady 7. You know what you get with him and can hang your hat on him performing and when he gets beat its because its impossible for him to stop the attacker not because he made a mistake. Like being beat in the air. Its not because he is our of position or made a mistake. Its because the atttacker is 9ft and built like a brick sht house. Every6 defender has a few occasions where he will be beaten. Otherwise we would never concede.
Can we do better? sure. but unless we buy a really top cb then i dont think it would be any better. you would just replace one set of weaknesses for another.
The issue with the pair has been compatibility. They don't lack in quality. They just don't compliment each other. We get them a complimentary partner. You will be shocked what solid pairings they can form
 

davidmichael

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Think of Tuanzebe had been fit all last season then Tuanzebe/Maguire would have already been established as our first choice pairing as Tuanzebe has all the attributes and main strengths to compliment Maguire (or Lindelof on last nights showing) and offsets Maguire’s main weaknesses.

I always believed that we let Smalling go on loan last season because Tuanzebe was third choice after Lindelof and Maguire but would have played himself into the team once it became clear Lindelof and Maguire don’t work and won’t ever work, I’ve never seen Tuanzebe have less that a 7/10 performance in the first team.
 

Mr. Christian

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The issue with the pair has been compatibility. They don't lack in quality. They just don't compliment each other. We get them a complimentary partner. You will be shocked what solid pairings they can form
I’m the first to admit I haven’t been a great advocate of Lindelof, however, his last two games have been exceptional. Hopefully this will give him the confidence to move forward and become the player many people suspect he is capable of. Fingers crossed!
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Yesterday showed that its vital to have that protection in front you, and I feel since Fred and McTominay have been put back into the team, Maguire and Lindelof have really benefited from that and have looked solid in our last few games.