Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

[Dolf]

A few mistakes here and there but as a duo they've been rock solid. Add AWB to that and we've seriously improved defensively compared to the last couple of seasons.

 

[A-man]

Horrible pack passes - on another day he costs us a goal doing that backpass to De Gea without looking. You get punished doing that at 5 aside ffs.

He lost so much composure in the second half. The corner he gave away for the goal could have been avoided. If you can't see the difference between the first half and the second half then I don't know what to say.

I think he made some poor decisions. Example: missing a tackle as last man instead of following, going for the same ball as Pogba which was unnecessary and leading to a half chance. Also sometimes an unnecessary header with random destination instead of controlling the ball. Still he had an ok night, I think we set our demands very high because of his price tag.

Apart from some poor passes from Lindelof in first half and some stressed moments with Maguire in second I think they look very calm with the ball. Both need more creativity.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I think he made some poor decisions. Example: missing a tackle as last man instead of following, going for the same ball as Pogba which was unnecessary. Also sometimes she unnecessary headers with random destination instead of controlling the ball. Still he had an ok night, I think we set our demands very high because of his price tag.

Apart from some poor passes from Lindelof I'm first half and some stressed moment ta with Maguire in second I think they look very calm with the ball. Both need more creativity.

Yeah I agree, it was just poor decision making. Everything he did felt like it could have been avoided. Just not what I'm used to seeing from him.

 

[Irrational.]

They're slabhead and shoulders above any defensive partnership we've had since Fergie retired.

 

[Lennon7]

Both clearly excellent defenders but both a little hasty today. Definitely something that’ll improve in time and what with their ability to play with the ball i think it’ll improve the whole team - the blatant need for a DM might be less obvious if they can find their groove

 

[McGrathsipan]

Another game into their pairing.

Another game without Jones and Smalling. Positives.

 

[A-man]

Yeah I agree, it was just poor decision making. Everything he did felt like it could have been avoided. Just not what I'm used to seeing from him.

To some extent, a bit of aggressive style often comes with poor decision making. He wants to win headers to every price. Lindelof makes other tyoes of mistakes and is often criticized for lacking aggressivness, but on the other hand he makes safe decisions.

 

[criticalanalysis]

As someone said earlier, any of our defenders would look 'good' next to Maguire.

The problem is none of them would actually improve or bring something standout other than being 'sound'.

It's only two games but not gonna lie, I wouldn't be against seeing Smalling/Jones over Lindelof. Ask them sweep and press high to let Maguire push up and take the mantle ball playing wise.

Lindelof still seems so passive and playing within himself, which in part makes Maguire be more tentative/mindful.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

As someone said earlier, any of our defenders would look 'good' next to Maguire.

The problem is none of them would actually improve or bring something standout other than being 'sound'.

It's only two games but not gonna lie, I wouldn't be against seeing Smalling/Jones over Lindelof. Ask them sweep and press high to let Maguire push up and take the mantle ball playing wise.

Lindelof still seems so passive and playing within himself, which in part makes Maguire be more tentative/mindful.

I like these ideas & the point on everyone looking ‘good’ next to Maguire is valid.

For me, given the way tonight went I think giving Axel a run would be worth it.

We’ll struggle to break teams down in attack again & aren’t really in contention for the League & Lindelof will need improving upon if we’re ever to contend.

Lindelof is a front runner, he’s no good when under pressure.

 

[DevilRed]

We are excellent at the back now. Very hard to beat (took a worldie today) and so comfortable with playing the ball.

We can keep plenty of possession now if only our attackers can fashion more chances and finish more clinically!

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Not true. He bought Bailly and Lindeleof when he had a chance...cost him Woodward,s confidence.

And he wanted Maguire... for less than we paid, and then essentially boycotted Woodward because of the fact he wasn't backed.

Obviously this CB pairing is essentially of Mourinho's design - he signed one player and quite pointedly wanted the other!

 

[Enigma_87]

They were good today. AWB too. Can see Maguire being handled the captain armband soon.

 

[Ekeke]

Looks a 6.5/10 so far, with Maguire being responsible for 5 of those points

 

[Dante]

The defence was fine. The issue was the midfield tracking runners in front of them.

Wolves had about 5 minutes of dominance and created 2 decent chances. Both times it was because our midfield got easily bypassed or failed to defend the edge of the box.

 

[TheReligion]

The defence was fine. The issue was the midfield tracking runners in front of them.

Wolves had about 5 minutes of dominance and created 2 decent chances. Both times it was because our midfield got easily bypassed or failed to defend the edge of the box.

Shhhh. Don't tell @Ekeke

 

[AshRK]

We look so assured at the back. Really happy with these two.

 

[Ekeke]

Shhhh. Don't tell @Ekeke

If you actually read any posts (Maybe you cant read? That would explain it) you would see from the very start that I said defending is a team responsibility and that we missed someone like Ander today in front of the defense. I wasnt suggesting Ander plays instead of a CB

 

[charlenefan]

Thought Lindelof was the better of the two tonight whereas Maguire was the better of the two against Chelsea. Between them and AWB Wolves barely created anything in open play (Shaw was doing well as well until Traore came on)

 

[A-man]

As someone said earlier, any of our defenders would look 'good' next to Maguire.

The problem is none of them would actually improve or bring something standout other than being 'sound'.

It's only two games but not gonna lie, I wouldn't be against seeing Smalling/Jones over Lindelof. Ask them sweep and press high to let Maguire push up and take the mantle ball playing wise.

Lindelof still seems so passive and playing within himself, which in part makes Maguire be more tentative/mindful.

With Smalling it would not be possible to play this calmly under pressure. They need to be more creative, I agree, but the solution is not Smalling. It is playing more together and getting confidence to know when you can advance forward and not. Lindelof has clearly got a little of the anchor role to cover for Bissaka and to some extent Maguire if they move forward. So far however, Maguire hasn't moved much.

I think some critics here should watch other teams play more often. Even top class defenders make mistakes, poor decisions and lose duels.
I have seen 3 Liverpool matches in short time now, and they have not performed better than United defence imo. Several mistakes from all of them, even VvD. Yes Alison is injured, but United have got 2 new defenders out of 4.

 

[criticalanalysis]

With Smalling it would not be possible to play this calmly under pressure. They need to be more creative, I agree, but the solution is not Smalling. It is playing more together and getting confidence to know when you can advance forward and not. Lindelof has clearly got a little of the anchor role to cover for Bissaka and to some extent Maguire if they move forward. So far however, Maguire hasn't moved much..

I am aware some of my criticism towards Lindelof is hyperbolic but I have not seen any sort of consistent assertiveness from him to readily expect it will blossom into something far greater.

To to be fair to him and the whole team, even though our intent is good in terms of hard pressing and playing out from the back, we are lacking in coached movement and patterns of plays, which obviously would help everyone. It's more 'run as hard and fast as you can in packs towards a player' than fundamental principles i.e press on first touch, close angles, push up as a team (Lindelof being hesistant and slow to drive up is part of the reason).

Whenever I see the ball played out to AWB, Maguire or Pogba, we come out with the ball more to do with their skill and composure rather than great triangular movement.

Anyways, I think with Smalling we could play a much higher line (which he excelled at when pressing up during the LVG years) and therefore be on the front foot in terms of transitional plays. He's not comfortable with the ball but I suspect he'll be adequate in recycling the ball across the back four.

As for playing calmly under pressure, Lindelof really isn't that great of an outlet anyways. Being able to pass the ball is just one area of playing under pressure, you need to be able to actually drive into open space and pass it with purpose. I'm not talking about marauding runs, I'm talking about carrying the ball. If the opposition offers/goads you into it, then you must be good enough to make the decisions to utilise it at times. Otherwise we will see what we saw today. Safe recycling of possession deep in our half then a square ball to AWB/Shaw or Pogba, who have all dropped 5-10 yards back. Too often with Lindelof, we give him benefit of the doubt that he's carrying his defensive partner etc and that he's risk adverse but perhaps his natural style is just tentative.

 

[A-man]

I am aware some of my criticism towards Lindelof is hyperbolic but I have not seen any sort of consistent assertiveness from him to readily expect it will blossom into something far greater.

To to be fair to him and the whole team, even though our intent is good in terms of hard pressing and playing out from the back, we are lacking in coached movement and patterns of plays, which obviously would help everyone. It's more 'run as hard and fast as you can in packs towards a player' than fundamental principles i.e press on first touch, close angles, push up as a team (Lindelof being hesistant and slow to drive up is part of the reason).

Whenever I see the ball played out to AWB, Maguire or Pogba, we come out with the ball more to do with their skill and composure rather than great triangular movement.

Anyways, I think with Smalling we could play a much higher line (which he excelled at when pressing up during the LVG years) and therefore be on the front foot in terms of transitional plays. He's not comfortable with the ball but I suspect he'll be adequate in recycling the ball across the back four.

As for playing calmly under pressure, Lindelof really isn't that great of an outlet anyways. Being able to pass the ball is just one area of playing under pressure, you need to be able to actually drive into open space and pass it with purpose. I'm not talking about marauding runs, I'm talking about carrying the ball. If the opposition offers/goads you into it, then you must be good enough to make the decisions to utilise it at times. Otherwise we will see what we saw today. Safe recycling of possession deep in our half then a square ball to AWB/Shaw or Pogba, who have all dropped 5-10 yards back. Too often with Lindelof, we give him benefit of the doubt that he's carrying his defensive partner etc and that he's risk adverse but perhaps his natural style is just tentative.

I definitely agree he, and also Maguire, need to play more through the line, occasional long balls and also try to break through like Lindelof did at the end of the match.

Yesterday there was more or less zero long balls from any CB or DDG. Wolverhampton played with a lot of players in the midfield and probably not much room. I believe it was a strategy to pass around the ball until you attract one or two players, the pass it on. This you can only do with calm secure players.

I like many of Smallings qualities but he was panic in those situations.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

Based on what? Tuanzabe didn't even played in preseason when Maguire hadn't arrived. I'd say Smalling is third choice and Tuanzabe 5th at best.

Tuanzebe never played in pre season? Assuming you didn't watch any of the games, he played in most of them.

Hmmmm based on what, well we are two games into the season, Smalling and Jones have not been in the match day squad and guess who has been the only CB on the bench for both games, wait, that will be Tuanzebe, that's what I'm basing it on Einstein.

FML some fans jesus

 

[11101]

I definitely agree he, and also Maguire, need to play more through the line, occasional long balls and also try to break through like Lindelof did at the end of the match.

Yesterday there was more or less zero long balls from any CB or DDG. Wolverhampton played with a lot of players in the midfield and probably not much room. I believe it was a strategy to pass around the ball until you attract one or two players, the pass it on. This you can only do with calm secure players.

I like many of Smallings qualities but he was panic in those situations.

This is a huge development for the team. For the last few years teams have known if you press us high up the pitch eventually we make a mistake or hoof it upfield. Both games so far we have been pressed deep in our own half and passed it out quickly and crisply. Soon teams will realise that's no longer a tactic that can be used against us.

People seem to think being a ball playing defender means getting assists and firing long balls to our strikers. It's not, it's somebody who can comfortably take the ball in a defensive situation and quickly transition it into an attack. Passing to the midfielder in front is fine if it's done before the opposition has time to regroup. Last year when the ball came into our defence we would need to calm ourselves and pass it across the back line for a while, and then once we'd settled down we would look for the forward ball. Now we have defenders who are taking the ball and immediately getting it moving forward again.

Players like Smalling and Young will never be able to do that.

 

[fps]

A few hairy situations, but the only goal conceded with this backline so far has been an absolute worldie from outside the box.

The concern in the backline is Shaw, a pacey winger will have him on toast and he doesn't have the stamina for 90 minutes.

 

[Kevin_]

Levels above last season, we can somewhat finally retain the ball at the back. This partnership will only get better.

 

[A-man]

This is a huge development for the team. For the last few years teams have known if you press us high up the pitch eventually we make a mistake or hoof it upfield. Both games so far we have been pressed deep in our own half and passed it out quickly and crisply. Soon teams will realise that's no longer a tactic that can be used against us.

People seem to think being a ball playing defender means getting assists and firing long balls to our strikers. It's not, it's somebody who can comfortably take the ball in a defensive situation and quickly transition it into an attack. Passing to the midfielder in front is fine if it's done before the opposition has time to regroup. Last year when the ball came into our defence we would need to calm ourselves and pass it across the back line for a while, and then once we'd settled down we would look for the forward ball. Now we have defenders who are taking the ball and immediately getting it moving forward again.

Players like Smalling and Young will never be able to do that.

I fully agree. This vital and the reason there were no long balls even from DDG is of course that there is now players who allow this tactics. Lindelof and Maguire not only stay calm, they wait to attract players before they pass forward. Its a way to unlock the other team. I would still want to see some more creativity and passes through.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

This is a huge development for the team. For the last few years teams have known if you press us high up the pitch eventually we make a mistake or hoof it upfield. Both games so far we have been pressed deep in our own half and passed it out quickly and crisply. Soon teams will realise that's no longer a tactic that can be used against us.

People seem to think being a ball playing defender means getting assists and firing long balls to our strikers. It's not, it's somebody who can comfortably take the ball in a defensive situation and quickly transition it into an attack. Passing to the midfielder in front is fine if it's done before the opposition has time to regroup. Last year when the ball came into our defence we would need to calm ourselves and pass it across the back line for a while, and then once we'd settled down we would look for the forward ball. Now we have defenders who are taking the ball and immediately getting it moving forward again.

Players like Smalling and Young will never be able to do that.

The issue now is our midfield often goes into hiding forcing us to pass it around the back four for a while untill one of the wingers drops deep to receive the pass. This was very apparent against Wolves yesterday. Their midfield completely dominated ours. They had them on lockdown making it very difficult for us to get the ball out of defence.

 

[Bestofthebest]

A few hairy situations, but the only goal conceded with this backline so far has been an absolute worldie from outside the box.

The concern in the backline is Shaw, a pacey winger will have him on toast and he doesn't have the stamina for 90 minutes.

Plus we do not have a ready made replacement if he does get tired or torn apart unless we are prepared to put Dalot on.

 

[fps]

Plus we do not have a ready made replacement if he does get tired or torn apart unless we are prepared to put Dalot on.

No, but there were far more important areas of the team to strengthen this summer. Fingers crossed Shaw will improve as the season goes on, sounds like he's had a couple of injury issues in the summer.

 

[groovyalbert]

Early days, but our weakest area last season is quickly looking like our strongest. A shame that areas that seemed relatively solid are really lacking in depth and variation, but the rebuild was always going to take time and insuring the right mentality and character is underpinning the side is paramount.

 

[Devil may care]

To be honest Maguire would have been between my 3rd and 5th choice CB to bring in but he's a good defender with some good attributes, however we paid a world record for him so bottom line is the defense will be built around hm over the next few seasons, so long term I think he's going to need a quicker, more athletic CB partner than Lindelof, maybe Bailly gets his head on and becomes that guy, perhaps Axel will make the step up, or maybe we'll have to go into the market.

 

[11101]

To be honest Maguire would have been between my 3rd and 5th choice CB to bring in but he's a good defender with some good attributes, however we paid a world record for him so bottom line is the defense will be built around hm over the next few seasons, so long term I think he's going to need a quicker, more athletic CB partner than Lindelof, maybe Bailly gets his head on and becomes that guy, perhaps Axel will make the step up, or maybe we'll have to go into the market.

Pace will not be a huge issue for our defence simply because they are training every day against arguably the quickest forward line in the league. They will quickly learn to deal with it.

 

[Devil may care]

Pace will not be a huge issue for our defence simply because they are training every day against arguably the quickest forward line in the league. They will quickly learn to deal with it.

All the training in the world wont alter the fact that if we get caught on the counter against a pacey forward line neither has recovery pace, we are relying on AWB to get across and cover them both.

 

[sunama]

We are excellent at the back now. Very hard to beat (took a worldie today) and so comfortable with playing the ball.

We can keep plenty of possession now if only our attackers can fashion more chances and finish more clinically!

Correct.
And when Jones is playing, it doesn't take a worldie to score against us.
Our defence was so wretchedly bad that we needed to play with 1-2 defensive midfielders every match, because we could not trust our defenders to defend.
The first time I saw us playing expansive football was last year against Spurs. That Spurs attacker just waltzed through our defence like it wasn't even there and scored 2 against our "defence". The crazy thing is that before that match I'd never heard of that player and since then I've not heard anything aobut him. My guess is that he's probably an average bench player who was made to look good because our defence was so bad.

Lindelof and Maguire is a good partnership which should get better and I certainly do not want to see Rojo, Baily, Smalling or Jones in our starting XI, if our top 2 defenders are fit to play.

 

[WannaBeSakka]

Lindelof has improved tremendously. Confidence is everything in this sport.

 

[11101]

All the training in the world wont alter the fact that if we get caught on the counter against a pacey forward line neither has recovery pace, we are relying on AWB to get across and cover them both.

Yeah but that's pretty much standard across all teams. A full back always stays back on an attack to cover a counter.

 

[Remember the geese]

The crazy thing is that before that match I'd never heard of that player and since then I've not heard anything aobut him. My guess is that he's probably an average bench player who was made to look good because our defence was so bad.

Yeah, I'd say that's crazy alright! Lucas Moura doesn't ring a bell?

 

[Devil may care]

Yeah but that's pretty much standard across all teams. A full back always stays back on an attack to cover a counter.

Shaw is usually doing that but doesn't always read the danger, but regardless of one fullback staying deeper, we are expecting ours to get across and cover both CB's, against teams with more than one player on the counter we'll get punished without a CB that has recovery pace.

 

[Hughie77]

Solid, so far, at OT, I think they be better than away? AWB is also strong , not many get past him, lindelof looks better for Maguire.
Time will tell if they get better.

Also our CM needs to give them more protection when defending our goal for a spell, all teams get a purple patch were they push, like Wolves did.

 

[Ekeke]

Chickens coming home to roost. We were lucky against Chelsea with them hitting the post and bar, Wolves scored 1 and hit the inside of the post and Palace have scored their first 2 goals of the season against us.

3 goals in the past 2 matches.

If Ole sticks with this partnership then they need to improve a lot because they've been weak