Maguire wasn't at fault for the goal

TheLord

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A top English centre-back like Rio or Terry would have attacked the ball rather than asking someone else to do the mopping. Yes, de Gea was too timid in this instance, but Maguire didn’t cover himself in glory either.
 

croadyman

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A top English centre-back like Rio or Terry would have attacked the ball rather than asking someone else to do the mopping. Yes, de Gea was too timid in this instance, but Maguire didn’t cover himself in glory either.
Yeah there is a serious lack of communication between our back 5
 

Cheimoon

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If you freeze the video halfway through, you have seven United players and six Leipzig players in the image, yet when the ball finaling comes to Kluivert, Maguire has to cover two people. Forward the image by a second, and you see that's because two of those seven players are hanging out on the edge of the box, spectating along with the rest of us.

Yes, Maguire looks a bit hesitant and may have been able to touch the ball if he had fully reached out; but he should never be in that position where he's got someone in front of him plus someone coming out of his back. Also, that touch would have been risky, as a partial touch might deflect the ball on goal, where De Gea would not have been expecting it. And finally, Maguire should have been able to expect De Gea coming for this: it's absolutely in the goalkeeper's range. (Apart from the fact that De Gea shouldn't have half-assed it when he finally did come out, of course.)

So it's really a mess all over. Of all of the above, I would put the least blame on Maguire's decision to let that ball go. And I would be curious who should get the blame for allowing some of his team mates to track back poorly and leave people unmarked centrally. Is that poor defensive conditiong or a lack of coaching in the moment? (The former is hard to say from a single situation, and the video is too short for the latter.)
 

MyBloodIsRed

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I played GK for many years growing up. But I don't need that experience to tell you that if the GK is NOT calling you off you better deal with it. Early days I wasn't as assertive and commanding in my area. Almost lead to collisions and did lead to some goals like this one. My biggest issue with DDG is his lack of commanding the area. He sure as hell can yell when the defender screws up so I know he can yell. I'd personally like to see Deano given a run. I think DDG is also a little gunshy after the knee incident. He's backing off from contact.

I know City is next but I'd put Deano in between the sticks and let the kid have a run
 

Lentwood

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I see you've ignored the decisive factor, that after the deflection, Maguire chose to put on the brakes, deciding to leave it for DDG instead. He could have got to that ball and cleared it if he wanted to.

Him after the deflection:


And this is him after putting on the brakes:



That doesn't mean the other players didn't make mistakes before him, but If Maguire is decisive like he should be and clears the ball, then De Gea's mistake doesn't happen. The goal doesn't happen.
The ball takes a massive deflection! Maguire is covering the near post run and setting himself for a physical challenge with the forward.

We can go back and forth about whether Maguire could possibly have reached it. I don’t think he could have, you will say he could - but arguing about whether your CB could have got a toe on a ball when a) the ball lands on the six yard line and b) your GK shrinks his body to avoid being hurt makes it seem like there’s just a bunch of people desperate to blame Maguire for stuff.

Just to add, I don’t think Maguire does leave it, I think he realises he’s struggling after the deflection and calls for De Gea to help
 

Bobcat

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I'm not a fan of Harry but, I don't think he can reach that.
His momentum is geared towards the tackle and the deflection gives him no time to adapt to the new trajectory.

Williams is slowish to react, but I doubt he would have got there anyway.

That goal is all about a cowardly goalkeeper, rooted to his line, who avoids contact, and turns away from the ball.

Pogba, rightly got slated for shielding his face, and giving away a penalty.
What DeGea does there is infinitely worse, and, as far as I am concerned, unforgivable.
This, it takes a heavy deflection and he could have stuck out a foot, but then you are kicking towards your own goal so in best case scenario you are giving away a corner for nothing. This is on De Gea for two reasons

1. The defenders are facing goal while the keeper (should) have full view of what it ahead of him. He has to help out his teammates by talking here
2. Its a slow ball that gently bounces into the 6 yard box. Its the keepers to claim 99/100 times

De Gea was far from the only one who fecked up this game, but he one certainly one of them
 

NinjaZombie

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Pause the video at the moment Kluivert makes contact with the ball. De Gea's looking away in fear of being hit. Came out too slow, and was too meek to stop the goal. That's most of De Gea's weakness on show there.

I hope Ole just goes with Henderson. It's about time De Gea pays for his poor form for the past 2 years.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Pause the video at the moment Kluivert makes contact with the ball. De Gea's looking away in fear of being hit. Came out too slow, and was too meek to stop the goal. That's most of De Gea's weakness on show there.

I hope Ole just goes with Henderson. It's about time De Gea pays for his poor form for the past 2 years.
I think this is the perfect time for DDG to be benched. Henderson as competition should get a shot when DDG makes such an unforgiveable error. It's the only way the pressure of the competition can have a positive effect on him.
 

bsCallout

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Thats on Maguire for me. No doubt about it. You do not let a ball go past you in the box.
 

Gio

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Although he's culpable, he is taking a lot of the flak when the midfield pair have escaped the majority of criticism. From what I've seen both McTominay and Pogba lack the defensive instincts to reliably track runners on their blind side. It's a shit-show when they've got one man to deal with there. All of that said, you'd expect a centre-half who can organise to drag them in to track their runner there. Lack of communication all round.
 

BFernandes

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Far worse than any one player being responsible, it was a catalogue of errors from everyone.

Lindelöf gives an easy ball away.
McTominay and Pogba don't track the runner
As a result, Lindelöf has to leave his man and pressure the player in the channel
Leaves Maguire with 2 men to mark
6'3 De Gea is understandably terrified of getting pole-axed by 5'6 Kluivert and makes himself as small as humanly possible

I think Maguire is probably the least culpable of everyone. The cross takes a deflection out of his range which I think is why he didn't clear it.

Either way, it was a feck up from start to finish.
 

Water Melon

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Although he's culpable, he is taking a lot of the flak when the midfield pair have escaped the majority of criticism. From what I've seen both McTominay and Pogba lack the defensive instincts to reliably track runners on their blind side. It's a shit-show when they've got one man to deal with there. All of that said, you'd expect a centre-half who can organise to drag them in to track their runner there. Lack of communication all round.
Spot on. This can and should be coached. Analyzed, re-watched, explained and practiced to avoid let happening again. In fact, it is 90% of what modern football is about. Collective play. The game is so fast and intricate that being a
asynchronous costs dearly. This is why RBL can make it into CL semi-final whereas United crumble. A manager is the most important figure in a football team. Gone are the days where you can buy 11 galacticos and let them do their magic.
 

El Zoido

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I think the angle in the clip is deceptive, and I’m not sure Maguire could have reached it. At the point where it looks closest to him, the ball is actually down and towards the centre of the 6 yard box and not next to his foot like it looks in the clip. It might have been possible had he lunged at it early, but he was already reacting to the deflection. It’s unfortunate for him because the only point where it was realistic for him to clear it, it just wasn’t in his stride. The more I watch it, the more I think Maguire takes the least of the blame here. It’s just so fashionable to hate on the guy it’s affecting objective opinion of the goal.
 

Resch

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They do not defend as a team, do not ó communicate enough. That's the problem.
It's up to the goalkeeper to guide the defence, he sees the field. Did DeGea say anything? If not it is 100 % his fault.
 

Web of Bissaka

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:lol: What's with people defending Maguire and deflecting to others? And why the heck are we only putting all the responsibility on just one player in this case and blaming it all on him?

Why?? Last I heard, Football is still a team game.

In this case,
1. AWB doesn't do enough to stop the cross, too much space and angles freely given.

2. Lindelof is not tight enough to his marker, letting him get a touch-flick on the cross.

3. McTominay not falling back, knowing how shit our defenders are. In crossing situations, the CDMs should enter our box.

4. Maguire for not clearing the ball. He can reach it but he chose not to. It's good that he stick to his marker, but bad for not clearing the ball.

5. Williams for switching off his focus, letting the player freely in the box.

6. De Gea for making a lame shit attempts in saving.

7. The whole coaches for being shit in coaching to improve this. We've seen it time and time again before and it's still happening.

The other players are not directly at fault in this case. And I wouldn't ask the impossible eg. Pogba to suddenly be good in defending or De Gea giving commands to the defense. That won't happen - they never were good at it nor wanting to do it, so just let that poor argument go.
 

owlo

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One of my first memories of football as a very small kid was asking how strikers could be so brave after seeing big Pete charge at them in the box. We've gone from that to a goal keeper that won't even come off his line to scoop it up.
 

lsd

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Nothing short of Trump level delusions the amount of effort Maguire fans go to to defend this guy.

He has been a complete disaster and the worst thing is most of us not only knew this when we signed him but we also knew he was never going to improve either.
 

L1nk

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It's a cluster of poor errors that actually lead to this goal if you watch the footage in the first post, things happened before that yes, but just in that video alone, you can see when the Leipzig player receives the ball out wide, a player starts to run to the outskirts of the box, here's where the first mistake happens, this player is near to Pogba and McTominay, one of them should have tracked his run, Pogba is ball watching, and McTominay actually has a quick look at the player and yet he still doesn't track the run, Lindelof and Maguire are marking the 2 central players, but Lindelof spots that this player hasn't been tracked and so rather than let him run free, he leaves his marker to mark this guy, leaving Maguire to react slowly to mark the guy that Lindelof just left, which in turn leaves the guy that Maguire was marking more free as he's caught between the two attackers, Williams doesn't spot this at all despite watching the ball the entire time, where he could have seen Maguire moving to the other man and he could have tucked in to cover the man Maguire was marking.

It's just a complete mess whichever way you look at it, and when it comes down to the end part, yes the blame can be on Maguire or De Gea for not being stronger, but I feel like if Pogba or McTominay actually tracked the run of the man one of them was supposed to, all of the following actions dont happen and there is no goal.
 

DanClancy

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If you freeze the video halfway through, you have seven United players and six Leipzig players in the image, yet when the ball finaling comes to Kluivert, Maguire has to cover two people. Forward the image by a second, and you see that's because two of those seven players are hanging out on the edge of the box, spectating along with the rest of us.

Yes, Maguire looks a bit hesitant and may have been able to touch the ball if he had fully reached out; but he should never be in that position where he's got someone in front of him plus someone coming out of his back. Also, that touch would have been risky, as a partial touch might deflect the ball on goal, where De Gea would not have been expecting it. And finally, Maguire should have been able to expect De Gea coming for this: it's absolutely in the goalkeeper's range. (Apart from the fact that De Gea shouldn't have half-assed it when he finally did come out, of course.)

So it's really a mess all over. Of all of the above, I would put the least blame on Maguire's decision to let that ball go. And I would be curious who should get the blame for allowing some of his team mates to track back poorly and leave people unmarked centrally. Is that poor defensive conditiong or a lack of coaching in the moment? (The former is hard to say from a single situation, and the video is too short for the latter.)
Exactly, just another example of a team who don't have us anyway near as much quality as United causing us no end of problems. We conceded 3 goals from crosses yet again, very little quality involved but just inept defending from United. Its down to what happens on the training pitch.
 

Lyricist

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Far worse than any one player being responsible, it was a catalogue of errors from everyone.

Lindelöf gives an easy ball away.
McTominay and Pogba don't track the runner
As a result, Lindelöf has to leave his man and pressure the player in the channel
Leaves Maguire with 2 men to mark
6'3 De Gea is understandably terrified of getting pole-axed by 5'6 Kluivert and makes himself as small as humanly possible

I think Maguire is probably the least culpable of everyone. The cross takes a deflection out of his range which I think is why he didn't clear it.


Either way, it was a feck up from start to finish.
This is exactly how it played out imo.

I also don't think Maguire can really reach it. Even if he somehow had reached it despite his momentum, it might've deflected goalwards which would've been very bad.
The best scenario for a CB in that situation would be if the gk just proactively goes for the ball. Maybe Maguire already fears that De Gea will be slow to come off his line because it's De Gea, yet he can't be okay with accidentally deflecting it goalwards. Intuitively he'd surely be hoping that De Gea clears that and thus wouldn't be on the line anymore. If a touch by Maguire indeed deflects it goalwards and De Gea isn't there to collect it, it's a goal as well.

Maguire getting a slight touch on that ball is just too dangerous as any other top goalie wouldn't be rooted to the line like that.

De Gea certainly didn't cover himself in glory with the way he shied away from the ball.
 

miked99

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Maguire is left to mark two people there on his own. To my mind de Gea is far more at fault here. A goalkeeper that hates to leave his line and then cowers at the thought of getting hurt, preferring to let the player score. I've always been a big fan of de Gea, even through his often calamitious patches of bad form over the last couple of years, but that is just unacceptable. It's embarrasing. I don't remember ever seeing a goalkeeper act like that before.
 

bugmat

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He did the right thing by going to the intended target of the cross but the ball took a deflection.

Williams should have been covering the man behind him.

DDG should have been stronger and swept up the loose ball.
I'm sorry but a proper world-class CB clears that, bobble or no bobble, or even controls it before booting it out. DDG was weak as piss (cowardly even) but Maguire if he was worth 80m takes control of that instead of relaxing and letting it go by. If that was Vidic the ball would still be coming down from the clearance now. They are both at fault. DDG more, but maguire is not guiltless.

And there definitely were errors prior to it from Lindelof (probably his first in the game but a bad one), the CM (not contesting the giveaway) and the cross coming in from RB.
 

passing-wind

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Sounds like excuses Maguires responsibility is to marshall the defence he shouldn't be relying on the goalkeeper always take matters into your own hands. If there's a mistake then the only consequence would have been a throw in or corner.
 

RedRonaldo

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I blame this goal on:

1. Poor defensive coaching - 10%
2. Poor defensive organisation - 20% (duty should be shared among goalie and captain or leader at the back)
3. Poor communication - 20% (duty should be shared among goalie and last defender)
4. Lindelof gives easy ball away - 10%
5. Mctominay didn't track back - 10%
6. Williams let go his opponents - 10%
7. Maguire, being the last defender to defend the ball, didn't even try to stop the ball from crossing into box - 10%
8. De Gea being a fanny - 20%

So in conclusion, the biggest blame would be on De Gea (20%+10%+10%=40%) and Maguire (10%+10%+10%=30%)
 

Borys

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I blame this goal on:

1. Poor defensive coaching - 10%
2. Poor defensive organisation - 20% (duty should be shared among goalie and captain or leader at the back)
3. Poor communication - 20% (duty should be shared among goalie and last defender)
4. Lindelof gives easy ball away - 10%
5. Mctominay didn't track back - 10%
6. Williams let go his opponents - 10%
7. Maguire, being the last defender to defend the ball, didn't even try to stop the ball from crossing into box - 10%
8. De Gea being a fanny - 20%

So in conclusion, the biggest blame would be on De Gea (20%+10%+10%=40%) and Maguire (10%+10%+10%=30%)
I like your way of thinking. I agree.
In 70%.
 

Grande

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I blame this goal on:

1. Poor defensive coaching - 10%
2. Poor defensive organisation - 20% (duty should be shared among goalie and captain or leader at the back)
3. Poor communication - 20% (duty should be shared among goalie and last defender)
4. Lindelof gives easy ball away - 10%
5. Mctominay didn't track back - 10%
6. Williams let go his opponents - 10%
7. Maguire, being the last defender to defend the ball, didn't even try to stop the ball from crossing into box - 10%
8. De Gea being a fanny - 20%

So in conclusion, the biggest blame would be on De Gea (20%+10%+10%=40%) and Maguire (10%+10%+10%=30%)
Best bid so far in my view.

I’d tweak it a bit on the points of

Defensive coaching: Maybe, but the same players have managed to play a lot better defensively many times before with the same defensive coaching and similar formations. Defensive tactics and preparations are surely to blame for the first two goals IMO, where several players back from injury or in slightly unusual positions (AWB, LS, AT and BF) made us open as a barnyard door for twenty mins or so. After that, though, with some tweaks, the defense generally worked well for 99% of the rest of the match. In that context, the last goal seems more an exception, as opposed to the first two.

Defensive organisation: Down a notch. We were not that badly organized in the situation, when you account for the fact that it arose on the back of a double transition. No defense is going to be perfectly organized if they win the ball and then lose it in a matter of seconds. Maguire could have shouted at McTominay to look behind him, but that’s a bit of an ask under the circunstances. Maybe he even did.

Communication: Quite possibly.

Lindelöf: for the pass, I’d up it to 15%.

McTom: Agreed.

Williams: needs a little more than 10% for switching off. In that kind ofsituation, a defender has to take responsibility for the man in front of him, Williams doesn’t switch on to that at all.

Maguire: Looking at it from different angles, I am completely convinced he actually had no chance whatsoever of reaching the ball once deflected. It’s farther from him at any time than it appears on the first tv images, it curls and his direction is opposite. At first I blamed him 80%, but now I actually struggle to criticise him for that goal. ‘Maybe he could have been more aware and speedy of mind and communicated to McTom about the loose man and to Williams about taking the spare man, but that last is normally something that you don’t have time to speak about, it goes without saying.

DeGea: It looks horrible at first glance. Looking further at it, he is not that slow to move given that from his angle the deflection is first shielded, then it must likely look from where he’s standing like it’s going towards goal or Maguire is going to get it, and a few split seconds is all it takes. A tad passive, but not terribly slow. The first I thought he was cowardly and positioned his upper body all wrong, but looking at it again, it looks more like he twists his body to make the best possible and close-to-the ball block with his feet, which makes sense but for the fact that Kluivert is so fast and makes a really, really deft chip. To those thinking he can reach it before Kluivert, I don’t think so. Not good goalkeeping, but neither is it terrible.

AWB: Gets close enough, but he could have done better than to let it go between his legs. On the other hand he blocks the space the winger would have liked to use, so the actual pass isn’t that perfect, leading to a miscontrolled deflection.

Van de Beek: must be mentioned as he needs to fall deeper to support Williams, making it safer for him to take the man in front of him. A 2% blame maybe.

Pogba: I’ll just mention him as at first I was absolutely certain he was at fault for at least something, as he irritates me so often in defensive situations. However, I really can’t find a thing he did wrong in that situation.

To summarize, what looked like a horrorshow at first, making me shout murder all round the livingroom, looks like good pressing and not so good attacking but a great finish by Leipzig, a misfortune of five weak defensive actions happening at once, and bad luck in terms of the path of a deflection.

I’ll hasten to add that the three and a half goals we should have let in in the first 20 mins was a veritable defensive shitshow worthy of the Spurs match, and both our goals were as lucky at least, so it doesn’t let us off the hook for a bad performance in total.

I did think Maguire had a decent game, though, after a weak start to the season by him.
 

MZX7

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You obviously never saw the thread after his Greek episode then, did you.
I'm talking about football. Not his personal life. They always seem to rate him highly. Always saying things like United need a good CB to partner with Maguire. As if Maguire is great and Lindelof is the only problem we have. Total bias. Im pretty sure Maguire has made more mistakes than Lindelof this season.
 

lsd

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Best bid so far in my view.

I’d tweak it a bit on the points of

Defensive coaching: Maybe, but the same players have managed to play a lot better defensively many times before with the same defensive coaching and similar formations. Defensive tactics and preparations are surely to blame for the first two goals IMO, where several players back from injury or in slightly unusual positions (AWB, LS, AT and BF) made us open as a barnyard door for twenty mins or so. After that, though, with some tweaks, the defense generally worked well for 99% of the rest of the match. In that context, the last goal seems more an exception, as opposed to the first two.

Defensive organisation: Down a notch. We were not that badly organized in the situation, when you account for the fact that it arose on the back of a double transition. No defense is going to be perfectly organized if they win the ball and then lose it in a matter of seconds. Maguire could have shouted at McTominay to look behind him, but that’s a bit of an ask under the circunstances. Maybe he even did.

Communication: Quite possibly.

Lindelöf: for the pass, I’d up it to 15%.

McTom: Agreed.

Williams: needs a little more than 10% for switching off. In that kind ofsituation, a defender has to take responsibility for the man in front of him, Williams doesn’t switch on to that at all.

Maguire: Looking at it from different angles, I am completely convinced he actually had no chance whatsoever of reaching the ball once deflected. It’s farther from him at any time than it appears on the first tv images, it curls and his direction is opposite. At first I blamed him 80%, but now I actually struggle to criticise him for that goal. ‘Maybe he could have been more aware and speedy of mind and communicated to McTom about the loose man and to Williams about taking the spare man, but that last is normally something that you don’t have time to speak about, it goes without saying.

DeGea: It looks horrible at first glance. Looking further at it, he is not that slow to move given that from his angle the deflection is first shielded, then it must likely look from where he’s standing like it’s going towards goal or Maguire is going to get it, and a few split seconds is all it takes. A tad passive, but not terribly slow. The first I thought he was cowardly and positioned his upper body all wrong, but looking at it again, it looks more like he twists his body to make the best possible and close-to-the ball block with his feet, which makes sense but for the fact that Kluivert is so fast and makes a really, really deft chip. To those thinking he can reach it before Kluivert, I don’t think so. Not good goalkeeping, but neither is it terrible.

AWB: Gets close enough, but he could have done better than to let it go between his legs. On the other hand he blocks the space the winger would have liked to use, so the actual pass isn’t that perfect, leading to a miscontrolled deflection.

Van de Beek: must be mentioned as he needs to fall deeper to support Williams, making it safer for him to take the man in front of him. A 2% blame maybe.

Pogba: I’ll just mention him as at first I was absolutely certain he was at fault for at least something, as he irritates me so often in defensive situations. However, I really can’t find a thing he did wrong in that situation.

To summarize, what looked like a horrorshow at first, making me shout murder all round the livingroom, looks like good pressing and not so good attacking but a great finish by Leipzig, a misfortune of five weak defensive actions happening at once, and bad luck in terms of the path of a deflection.

I’ll hasten to add that the three and a half goals we should have let in in the first 20 mins was a veritable defensive shitshow worthy of the Spurs match, and both our goals were as lucky at least, so it doesn’t let us off the hook for a bad performance in total.

I did think Maguire had a decent game, though, after a weak start to the season by him.

Completely delusional. Do you even believe what you posted or are you that blind to Maguire's faults?

He actually slowed down so he wouldn't have to deal with the ball. It was cowardly and disgraceful defending.

I cannot believe there is another centre back in any of the top leagues in Europe that would not have cleared that ball before it reached De Gea.

You can try and blame as many other players as you want whether it's Fred for being sent off the week before or Pogba for having an agent like Mino but the vast majority of the blame for that goal is on Maguire.

He had every chance to deal with it and chose not too. That's our captain and it is pathetic
 

Illyriann

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The British here seem to love Captain Maguire . IF he was some Swedish guy who cost 30m no one was going to say anything good, , but as a English International everyone seem to find good things about Maguire. Not a captain material , not a Man United level player .a big big problem unless new coach arrives .Captain its undroppable this is a bigger issue then Pogba, as he be sold hopefully.
 

SadlerMUFC

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I think this is the perfect time for DDG to be benched. Henderson as competition should get a shot when DDG makes such an unforgiveable error. It's the only way the pressure of the competition can have a positive effect on him.
I'm just not so sure City is the right game for him to get his chance. Perhaps City should be DeGea's "last chance"...
 

croadyman

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The British here seem to love Captain Maguire . IF he was some Swedish guy who cost 30m no one was going to say anything good, , but as a English International everyone seem to find good things about Maguire. Not a captain material , not a Man United level player .a big big problem unless new coach arrives .Captain its undroppable this is a bigger issue then Pogba, as he be sold hopefully.
There is no doubt that the English media go much easier on their own players which is bang out of order. This also probably explains why our coaching isn't more under the microscope in the press as well because they are british.
 

buckooo1978

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unless De Gea called for it which i doubt given how slow he was to react the main perpetrator here was Maguire

A good defender clears the danger

Sloppy from Maguire
 

Grande

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Completely delusional. Do you even believe what you posted or are you that blind to Maguire's faults?

He actually slowed down so he wouldn't have to deal with the ball. It was cowardly and disgraceful defending.

I cannot believe there is another centre back in any of the top leagues in Europe that would not have cleared that ball before it reached De Gea.

You can try and blame as many other players as you want whether it's Fred for being sent off the week before or Pogba for having an agent like Mino but the vast majority of the blame for that goal is on Maguire.

He had every chance to deal with it and chose not too. That's our captain and it is pathetic
It’s funny that you call yourself lsd and call me delusional over this. You can argue about it, but it’s still funny. :)

I get that you think you saw what ‘actually’ happened, even inside Maguire’s mind, and that anyone seeing something as different must be ‘delusional’ or have a dishonest agenda. You are wrong though.

I don’t know if it’s delusion that makes you speak of blaming Fred and Pogba when I never mentioned Fred and explicitly absolve Pogba in the post you answered. In another thread I’ve been called an idiot for defending Fred after the red card. Do you mix people? Mix posts? Can’t read? Bad short term memory? Have an agenda? Delusions? I don’t know, and I won’t presume to know, but it’s funny too. :)

If not, you’d probably have picked up that I was critical about Maguire’s play this season, and that I at first thought Maguire was almost solely to blame, so I can hardly be blind to his faults or refuse to acknowledge them. Delusional?

I did watch the goal repeated times from different angles, so my opinion is based both on seeing how angles, screen depth and slow mo can be deceptive. I know I can be deceived, which is different from delusional btw. I concluded that Maguire was very little to blame for this particular goal, which is the explicit subject of this thread (as opposed to wether he is captain material or his personality in general).

Please don’t worry if I get my knickers in a twist or waste my time obsessing or something - I actually quite enjoyed myself writing this post while sitting on the loo. :)
 

Champ

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It’s funny that you call yourself lsd and call me delusional over this. You can argue about it, but it’s still funny. :)

I get that you think you saw what ‘actually’ happened, even inside Maguire’s mind, and that anyone seeing something as different must be ‘delusional’ or have a dishonest agenda. You are wrong though.

I don’t know if it’s delusion that makes you speak of blaming Fred and Pogba when I never mentioned Fred and explicitly absolve Pogba in the post you answered. In another thread I’ve been called an idiot for defending Fred after the red card. Do you mix people? Mix posts? Can’t read? Bad short term memory? Have an agenda? Delusions? I don’t know, and I won’t presume to know, but it’s funny too. :)

If not, you’d probably have picked up that I was critical about Maguire’s play this season, and that I at first thought Maguire was almost solely to blame, so I can hardly be blind to his faults or refuse to acknowledge them. Delusional?

I did watch the goal repeated times from different angles, so my opinion is based both on seeing how angles, screen depth and slow mo can be deceptive. I know I can be deceived, which is different from delusional btw. I concluded that Maguire was very little to blame for this particular goal, which is the explicit subject of this thread (as opposed to wether he is captain material or his personality in general).

Please don’t worry if I get my knickers in a twist or waste my time obsessing or something - I actually quite enjoyed myself writing this post while sitting on the loo. :)
Now I don't want to get into a debate here, but I just wanted to ask if you saw Maguire's reaction once he realised it would lead to a chance/goal, and his reaction when the ball went in?
His reaction in these situations speak volumes to me, however I'd be interested to hear your opinions on his body language in this situation.
 

Mcking

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The British here seem to love Captain Maguire . IF he was some Swedish guy who cost 30m no one was going to say anything good, , but as a English International everyone seem to find good things about Maguire. Not a captain material , not a Man United level player .a big big problem unless new coach arrives .Captain its undroppable this is a bigger issue then Pogba, as he be sold hopefully.
You must be kidding. Lindelof is lucky he is not British and didn't cost £80m.
 

Doracle

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unless De Gea called for it which i doubt given how slow he was to react the main perpetrator here was Maguire

A good defender clears the danger

Sloppy from Maguire
There are two possibilities here. Either (I) he can’t reach it after the deflection and there’s nothing he can do or (ii) he can reach it and deliberately decided to let a dangerous ball roll across the 6 yard box hoping that it will all be ok.

I think it’s pretty clear from the clips that he couldn’t reach it. If so, he’s not at fault - he’s in the correct position and the deflection beats him - could happen to any defender. The idea that he deliberately left it is bizarre - even if you think he’s a poor defender, there would be no reason at all why he could possibly think that would be ok.