Malaysian Plane crashes over the Ukraine | 17th July 2014

Fergie's gum

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There are Russians operating in the Donbass. The Russians I know don't even deny that basic fact, although they don't see it as an issue since most of them refuse to recognize Ukrainians as possessing a separate nationality. Saying otherwise is not "objectivity" but rather performing the "useful idiot" role to use Lenin's words.
I don't even know why I am so compelled to reply to you, as I have to keep repeating myself, but hey here it goes again. "Russian involvement hasn't been proven, though given the purpose of this conflict I wouldn't be surprised if there is support from the Russians. Though that doesn't automatically implicate Russia in this crime"
So you are saying because Russians go to fight with the separatist, that implicates the Russian Federation? With that logic, there should be sanctions against Britain because there are Brits fighting for ISIS. And speaking of accidental shooting down of passenger jets, there is a well documented case regarding an Iranian airliner which you may find an interesting read.

This new cold war has been going on for a few years now, way before Maidan. If you want to learn the truth, to know why we are in this very dangerous situation, read up on it , and don't be a passive consumer of mainstream media fairytales.
 

Silva

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I don't even know why I am so compelled to reply to you, as I have to keep repeating myself, but hey here it goes again. "Russian involvement hasn't been proven, though given the purpose of this conflict I wouldn't be surprised if there is support from the Russians. Though that doesn't automatically implicate Russia in this crime"
So you are saying because Russians go to fight with the separatist, that implicates the Russian Federation? With that logic, there should be sanctions against Britain because there are Brits fighting for ISIS. And speaking of accidental shooting down of passenger jets, there is a well documented case regarding an Iranian airliner which you may find an interesting read.

This new cold war has been going on for a few years now, way before Maidan. If you want to learn the truth, to know why we are in this very dangerous situation, read up on it , and don't be a passive consumer of mainstream media fairytales.
The British government isn't giving strategic support to ISIS so that analogy is utter horseshit.

The Iranian one's already been brought up in this thread, not that it has anything to do with this.

This is nothing like the cold war.
 

Raoul

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I don't even know why I am so compelled to reply to you, as I have to keep repeating myself, but hey here it goes again. "Russian involvement hasn't been proven, though given the purpose of this conflict I wouldn't be surprised if there is support from the Russians. Though that doesn't automatically implicate Russia in this crime"
So you are saying because Russians go to fight with the separatist, that implicates the Russian Federation? With that logic, there should be sanctions against Britain because there are Brits fighting for ISIS. And speaking of accidental shooting down of passenger jets, there is a well documented case regarding an Iranian airliner which you may find an interesting read.

This new cold war has been going on for a few years now, way before Maidan. If you want to learn the truth, to know why we are in this very dangerous situation, read up on it , and don't be a passive consumer of mainstream media fairytales.
You have to look at it in the broader context of Russia invading and annexing part of Ukraine (Crimea) and attempting to do so again in Donbass. That already is Russian involvement. The fact that Russia has troops (whether in uniform or not) and equipment on the ground in Ukraine is also not deniable. Introducing equipment like rocket launchers, surface to air missiles, and other sophisticated hardware suggests only one scenario behind what happened to the Malaysian flight. Excepting the flamboyantly propagandist Russian press, everyone else seems to acknowledge this.
 

the hea

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37495067

MH17 missile 'came from Russia', Dutch-led investigators say

"Based on the criminal investigation, we have concluded that flight MH17 was downed by a Buk missile of the series 9M83 that came from the territory of the Russian Federation," chief Dutch police investigator Wilbert Paulissen said.

The missile launcher was later taken back to Russia, he said.

Prosecutors played recordings from intercepted phone calls during their news conference.

They said witnesses reported seeing the missile launcher move from Russia into Ukraine and presented pictures and videos.

The launch site was pinpointed by "many witnesses", prosecutors said.
 

Sir Matt

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The Russian MoD found some new radar images just today! What an amazing coincidence.
 

Raoul

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Putin denies involvement but Russian hackers have been working overtime to thwart journos from releasing investigative information about the crash.......

Russian hackers harassed journalists who were investigating Malaysia Airlines plane crash


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...86c8bc-84f7-11e6-ac72-a29979381495_story.html

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antihenry

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Malaysia wants evidence to show Russia shot down MH17.

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/c...wants-evidence-to-show-russia-shot-down-mh17/

The Malaysian government wants strong evidence to show that Russia is responsible for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 tragedy in 2014, said Prime Minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad today.

He said Malaysia accepted the investigation report of Holland but only up to the point where the plane was brought down by a missile made by Russia.

Mahathir said while the government agreed that the plane was brought down by a Russian missile, it cannot be certain that the missile was launched by Russia.

“They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence? We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian-type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.

“You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians.

“It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile,” he said during a dialogue and media conference with the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ) here today.

Mahathir said people of Russia are military people and they would know that MH17 is a passenger plane.

“I don’t think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile,” he said.

The prime minister said Malaysia should also be involved in examining the black box as the plane belongs to Malaysia and there were Malaysian passengers.

“We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.

“We don’t know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it.

“The idea was not to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians. This is not a neutral kind of examination,” said Mahathir.

“Had a neutral party examined and made the conclusion, Malaysia is willing to accept the findings but here we have parties with political interests in the matter,” he added.


Flight MH17, which departed from Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam, on its way to Kuala Lumpur, was shot before crashing near Torez in Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine, about 40km from the Russian border on July 17, 2014.

The incident killed 298 people, including 15 crew members

The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) said the team was convinced that a BUK Telar missile was used to down MH17, and that it originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade (53rd Brigade), which is a unit of the Russian army in Kursk in the Russian Federation.
 

2cents

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nickm

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According to the prosecution, the 4 men were:

A russian former colonel in the FSB
Another russian GRU employee, who was his deputy
Another russian GRU soldier and dep head of intelligence
A ukrainian, no military background, but who led a combat unit in Eastern Ukraine

Subject to an international arrest warrant.
 

Raulduke

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Apologies for the somewhat random bump but I've just been listening to Bellingcat's first podcast series on their investigation into the downing of MH17. It's an absolutely chilling and brilliantly put together series so far. I hadn't followed the story in any serious depth before and was always fairly agnostic about who was behind it but their evidence is pretty compelling.
 

Sir Matt

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Apologies for the somewhat random bump but I've just been listening to Bellingcat's first podcast series on their investigation into the downing of MH17. It's an absolutely chilling and brilliantly put together series so far. I hadn't followed the story in any serious depth before and was always fairly agnostic about who was behind it but their evidence is pretty compelling.
It is very good. I've followed Elliot Higgins for a while and read Bellingcat on occasion. It was apparent from the start that Russia and the pro-Russian rebels shot down the plane, but it's impressive how Bellingcat annihilates the Russian propaganda campaign.