Man arrested for murder after running over and killing a guy who was stabbing a woman | Faces no charges

[Jippy]

It's been all over the news, but for non-Brits, a guy was repeatedly stabbing a woman in the street and a passer-by got into his car and ran him over to try and protect her in a bizarre incident this week. The woman died anyway and her attacker was crushed under the car and died too. The driver has been charged with murder, but his lawyers are calling for the charges to be dropped today.

The tabloids, well the Mail, initially hailed him as 'hero driver' before reining that in a bit.

The driver said: 'I do not see why I as the person who tried to assist in the defence of other human beings remain arrested and on bail under suspicion of murder. I have asked my solicitor to contact the Metropolitan Police to request that they consider de-arresting me and begin treating me as a witness to a tragic event rather than as a criminal as they currently are.'

'VIGILANTE' SPEAKS OUT Driver who crashed into ex stabbing mum to death reveals ‘my instant thought was to protect her’ & slams murder arrest
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17455400/driver-ex-stabbing-vigilante-help-god-police/
Woman stabbed in Maida Vale named as Yasmin Chkaifi
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/25/woman-stabbed-in-maida-vale-named-as-yasmin-chkaifi
‘He’s our hero’: Driver who killed knifeman should escape murder charge, say victim’s family
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...illed-frenzied-stabbing-attack-named-angelic/

What say the Caf?

 

[balaks]

It is murder - he could have done many other things to try and help that didn't involve potentially killing somebody. Although you can understand perhaps why he did it and it was from wanting to help another person that doesn't excuse what he did imo. I may be in the minority here I don't know.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Sounds absolutely horrific doesn't it? I felt sick to my stomach reading about it.

Personally I think the man in the car did the right thing. The knifer was clearly a danger to the public and could have gone onto hurt other people.

While I understand the police can't go thanking Vigilanty justice, he shouldn't be treated as a criminal.

 

[horsechoker]

Surely they can get it down to manslaughter

 

[Adam-Utd]

It is murder - he could have done many other things to try and help that didn't involve potentially killing somebody. Although you can understand perhaps why he did it and it was from wanting to help another person that doesn't excuse what he did imo. I may be in the minority here I don't know.

This man sat on top of a woman stabbing her while she screamed for help. Other people tried to get him off her and he waved the knife at them threatening them if they came close.

At what point do you stop and let that carry on? you'd just carry on with your day would you?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

It is murder - he could have done many other things to try and help that didn't involve potentially killing somebody. Although you can understand perhaps why he did it and it was from wanting to help another person that doesn't excuse what he did imo. I may be in the minority here I don't know.

Not sure on that. I'd rather stay in my car than get out and try to tackle someone in the process of stabbing someone to death. He looked like a pretty sturdy guy as well.

 

[SilentWitness]

It is murder - he could have done many other things to try and help that didn't involve potentially killing somebody. Although you can understand perhaps why he did it and it was from wanting to help another person that doesn't excuse what he did imo. I may be in the minority here I don't know.

Aye, it's really horrible to think of what you'd do in that situation. Approaching him could mean you are stabbed and killed too, leaving him and calling the police could mean he stabs more people. The car is a good option for your own safety as you've got less chance of being stabbed but then can result in the death of others as has happened. I'd probably agree they should be sentenced but a light one.

 

[villain]

Well by definition, it wasn't an accident. He did intentionally have the thought to cause harm, then acted upon it.
Obviously he wouldn't have done it had it not been for the guy stabbing the woman in the first place, but you still can't take the law into your hands. He'll be sentenced, but you'd hope it's not too lengthy of a sentence and the judge will take into account the other man's actions.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Would he not be better accepting the murder charge, pleading not guilty and gamble on being acquitted by a jury of his peers. As opposed to pleading guilty to manslaughter?

 

[langster]

It's not murder, it is manslaughter though and he should face the absolute minimum of charges. Personally I don't think he should be treated as a criminal and I don't think he should be jailed as he was trying to save lives.

The real criminals here are the Metropolitan Police. This guy had repeatedly breached a stalking order and had failed to show for court to face charges for breaching the order. His ex wife had also repeatedly told police she was scared for her life and she felt one day he would kill her after suffering years of physical abuse from him.

The fact this man was still on the streets is despicable and her death could and should have been avoided.

 

[Jippy]

Apparently the man and woman were known to each other, so there was no obvious indication the knifeman would rampage and attack randoms, to add, although people at the scene weren't to know that.

 

[hellhunter]

Is this not some kind of proxy or extended self defence? Not sure how this is called, but seems to be the case. Of course the method of self defence must correlate to the severity of the threat, but I suppose this is for a judge to decide.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Well by definition, it wasn't an accident. He did intentionally have the thought to cause harm, then acted upon it.
Obviously he wouldn't have done it had it not been for the guy stabbing the woman in the first place, but you still can't take the law into your hands. He'll be sentenced, but you'd hope it's not too lengthy of a sentence and the judge will take into account the other man's actions.

If a man in public streets is repeatedly stabbing a woman screaming for help in front of 20/30 people, he's a terrorist as far as I'm concerned.

This guy was a deranged lunatic and you know what? he deserve to die. feck him. Thank god he did what he did.

I can only imagine what her 2 poor children are feeling right now.

 

[SilentWitness]

If a man in public streets is repeatedly stabbing a woman screaming for help in front of 20/30 people, he's a terrorist as far as I'm concerned.

This guy was a deranged lunatic and you know what? he deserve to die. feck him. Thank god he did what he did.

I can only imagine what her 2 poor children are feeling right now.

What?

Also, you only know things in hindsight. The man who murdered the attacker didn't know any details about the man who murdered the woman or why he was doing so.

 

[Solius]

Give him a parade.

 

[Adam-Utd]

What?

What do you mean what? how is it any different to a Jihadist running about with a knife stabbing people? Terrorism isn't just religion related you know.

You're driving along in the morning and see a crazed man sitting on top of somebody stabbing the feck out of them, how are you supposed to know any different?

Are you going to wait for him to shout Alluha Akbar before you try to help?

For all we know he might not have stopped with this woman, he could have turned and started going on a rampage with others around him.

 

[harms]

It is murder - he could have done many other things to try and help that didn't involve potentially killing somebody. Although you can understand perhaps why he did it and it was from wanting to help another person that doesn't excuse what he did imo. I may be in the minority here I don't know.

To be fair I’d say that the immediate options are quite limited when you have to stop someone armed with a knife from murdering someone else. You can’t exactly wait for the police as the victim certainly won’t survive that. And it’s hard to neutralize an attacker without putting yourself and others at grave danger.

I’m not sure what I’d do in such scenario.

 

[Jippy]

What do you mean what? how is it any different to a Jihadist running about with a knife stabbing people? Terrorism isn't just religion related you know.

You're driving along in the morning and see a crazed man sitting on top of somebody stabbing the feck out of them, how are you supposed to know any different?

Are you going to wait for him to shout Alluha Akbar before you try to help?

For all we know he might not have stopped with this woman, he could have turned and started going on a rampage with others around him.

The reports said he actually hit the woman with the car too, although sounds more like he clipped her and I guess he was dead anyway.

I'm a bit torn on it, but it's mental to try use a moving car to get a person away from someone else. There was a high chance he'd cause serious injury or worse, even if the guy turned out to be a real wrong 'un.

 

[Jippy]

To be fair I’d say that the immediate options are quite limited when you have to stop someone armed with a knife from murdering someone else. You can’t exactly wait for the police as the victim certainly won’t survive that. And it’s hard to neutralize an attacker without putting yourself and others at grave danger.

I’m not sure what I’d do in such scenario.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Crazy story. The driver’s version of events has yer man threatening pedestrians who tried to intervene with his knife. If witnesses support that version of events then surely he shouldn’t be charged at all?

 

[SilentWitness]

What do you mean what? how is it any different to a Jihadist running about with a knife stabbing people? Terrorism isn't just religion related you know.

You're driving along in the morning and see a crazed man sitting on top of somebody stabbing the feck out of them, how are you supposed to know any different?

Are you going to wait for him to shout Alluha Akbar before you try to help?

For all we know he might not have stopped with this woman, he could have turned and started going on a rampage with others around him.

The only person jumping to Islam is you actually.

Here is the CPS definition of terrorism -

The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below, and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

Personally, after reading about the case this has nothing to do with terrorism or other people, it was purely about the victim. Shouting about terrorism is baffling.

 

[Withnail]

Surely they can get it down to manslaughter

Yeah, I can't imagine there's a chance he'll get murder.

Does running someone over in your van constitute reasonable force?

 

[Oranges038]

Give him a medal, he did the right thing.

 

[harms]

What do you mean what? how is it any different to a Jihadist running about with a knife stabbing people? Terrorism isn't just religion related you know.

You're driving along in the morning and see a crazed man sitting on top of somebody stabbing the feck out of them, how are you supposed to know any different?

Are you going to wait for him to shout Alluha Akbar before you try to help?

For all we know he might not have stopped with this woman, he could have turned and started going on a rampage with others around him.

Terrorism isn’t a religion but terrorism doesn’t equate to murder. The goal of a terrorist is to instill fear and, well, terror to the public. The goal of this man by all accounts was simply to kill that woman.

 

[2 man midfield]

Bet he wishes he’d just looked the other way now

 

[Adam-Utd]

The reports said he actually hit the woman with the car too, although sounds more like he clipped her and I guess he was dead anyway.

I'm a bit torn on it, but it's mental to try use a moving car to get a person away from someone else. There was a high chance he'd cause serious injury or worse, even if the guy turned out to be a real wrong 'un.

The report I've read said he didn't hit the woman, but the front wheels ended up on top of her coat. Unfortunately she was dead no matter what he did.

I'm not torn on it all. Good riddance as far as i'm concerned. This guy stopped being a 'person' or a human the moment he decided to stab a defenceless woman in broad daylight. Even after being confronted he carried on stabbing her. fecking lunatic.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The only person jumping to Islam is you actually.

Here is the CPS definition of terrorism -



Personally, after reading about the case this has nothing to do with terrorism or other people, it was purely about the victim. Shouting about terrorism is baffling.

It’s a fair point that in big cities like London people are on edge about the next jihadist atrocity. And if you see a big, bearded man stabbing a defenceless woman on the pavement - in broad daylight - and threatening other people with his knife, a lot of Londoners would assume it could be another terrorist attack.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Terrorism isn’t a religion but terrorism doesn’t equate to murder. The goal of a terrorist is to instill fear and, well, terror to the public. The goal of this man by all accounts was simply to kill that woman.

Fair enough, my point being though - how is the man in the car supposed to know any different? we've had many instances in London of people running around with Knives trying to kill people.

In a split second decision, you either close your eyes and be a coward and carry on, or you take action.

If the man got out the car with a metal pole and smashed him over the head, would that have been ok? or is just because he used a car?

Say that's your mum on the floor being stabbed while she screams dying. What are you doing about it?

 

[Kentonio]

Should absolutely be de-arrested. He intervened to stop someone who was committing murder ffs. If the police had arrived and shot the stabbing fella, would they have been guilty of murder? More and more we like in a society where people don't intervene in crimes being committed, and crap like this is a large part of the reason why.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It’s a fair point that in big cities like London people are on edge about the next jihadist atrocity. And if you see a big, bearded man stabbing a defenceless woman on the pavement - in broad daylight - and threatening other people with his knife, a lot of Londoners would assume it could be another terrorist attack.

Glad somebody has their head screwed on for a moment.

 

[cyberman]

Hero. Try to stop him in the open and he gets stabbed himself

 

[BD]

Crazy story. The driver’s version of events has yer man threatening pedestrians who tried to intervene with his knife. If witnesses support that version of events then surely he shouldn’t be charged at all?

He should get no sentence if that's the case. And when people are al like "oh well he's in breach of these laws X, Y, and Z" - then clearly the laws are no good.

 

[2 man midfield]

Should be handled like those people charged with dunking Colston in the river.

Yes you did it, no you’re not guilty. Free to go.

 

[Adisa]

Did the right thing imo.

 

[SilentWitness]

Fair enough, my point being though - how is the man in the car supposed to know any different? we've had many instances in London of people running around with Knives trying to kill people.

In a split second decision, you either close your eyes and be a coward and carry on, or you take action.

If the man got out the car with a metal pole and smashed him over the head, would that have been ok? or is just because he used a car?

Say that's your mum on the floor being stabbed while she screams dying. What are you doing about it?

You said above that " If a man in public streets is repeatedly stabbing a woman screaming for help in front of 20/30 people, he's a terrorist as far as I'm concerned."

You don't know if he's a terrorist, you don't know if he's a vindictive ex, you don't know if he's someone having a severe mental breakdown. You don't know any of that in the moment and it doesn't give someone the right to then murder them and diminish all responsibility for taking a life. As someone said above a major failing in this case, as with many, is the police for not dealing with the violent murderer enough previously and stopping this potentially happening at all. I don't think we as a society have a right to take lives just because the individuals have taken some, especially when based on emotion, it becomes a slippery slope.

 

[MadMike]

I think if any of us were in the position of the woman that was being stabbed, we would want someone to intervene on our behalf even with deadly force.

You can kill someone in self-defence if your life is being threatened and it will not be deemed murder. Self-defence is justified. Does the same not apply when coming to the defence of a helpless victim that cannot defend themselves? If I see a kid being stabbed, I shouldn't intervene because it's not me? Is that legally or morally the right thing to do?

Because if we agree that it's morally correct to intervene to stop a killing, then often the only option is deadly force.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You said above that " If a man in public streets is repeatedly stabbing a woman screaming for help in front of 20/30 people, he's a terrorist as far as I'm concerned."

You don't know if he's a terrorist, you don't know if he's a vindictive ex, you don't know if he's someone having a severe mental breakdown. You don't know any of that in the moment and it doesn't give someone the right to then murder them and diminish all responsibility for taking a life. As someone said above a major failing in this case, as with many, is the police for not dealing with the violent murderer enough previously and stopping this potentially happening at all. I don't think we as a society have a right to take lives just because the individuals have taken some, especially when based on emotion, it becomes a slippery slope.

I agree with your last sentence. Bit of a grim analogy but if the assailant had already obviously cut off her head then I don’t think the driver could justify smashing his car into the knife guy. That’s retribution and is a slippery slope. But it sounds like he couldn’t be sure she was dead and could argue his instinct was to use his car to try and save her life. Which is a completely different scenario.

 

[Pexbo]

You’d think the fact he was intervening to save the life of someone who was actually then murdered would count for something. This isn’t a what if situation, the man was trying to kill her and succeeded.

 

[Mickeza]

It is murder - he could have done many other things to try and help that didn't involve potentially killing somebody. Although you can understand perhaps why he did it and it was from wanting to help another person that doesn't excuse what he did imo. I may be in the minority here I don't know.

What are the many things he could have done to stop the man repeatedly stabbing the woman and killing her without endangering himself? Call the police by which time she’s dead? Politely ask him to stop stabbing her to death? Or should he have got out of the car and challenged him to a fist fight instead? Maybe I’m going all gammon in my ageing years but I’m very much team Daily Mail.

 

[RobinLFC]

Should absolutely be de-arrested. He intervened to stop someone who was committing murder ffs. If the police had arrived and shot the stabbing fella, would they have been guilty of murder? More and more we like in a society where people don't intervene in crimes being committed, and crap like this is a large part of the reason why.

The police is trained for situations like these, and I do'nt think they would be allowed to shot the stabbing guy at all if he didn't try to attack them, but not sure.

Also, how hard do you have to drive over a guy to kill him? Couldn't he have cautiously but steadily approached him? He would have had to back off anyway if he saw the car coming closer at a low speed, but not sure that would have been a feasible solution in the case at hand.