Man City 2020/21 - General discussion

Feed Me

I'm hungry
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
29,067
Location
Midlands, UK
City are way off it.

Apart from an injury time blitz, I though Albion contained them with ease.
 

Zoo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
23,825
Like last season they are far too reliant on De Bruyne. Pep has never really rebuilt a team and so far it doesn’t look like that’s going smoothly
 

Superunknown

Full Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2019
Messages
2,494
They can't seem to decide what style they're playing, at the moment. At least, in this game. It hasn't got the trademarks of possession football, because they're not really making up ground, pulling the opposition out and working their way into the box that often. It's not counter-attacking. It's not fast, aggressive football. It's a bit style-less and I'm not convinced the players know fully what they're doing. It just seems to be a case of give the ball to De Bruyne, and hopefully it'll make its way to Sterling or someone like Mahrez for an easy finish.

In a way, there's a few similarities with what Chelsea were like earlier. Missing something up top and seeing a lot of the ball without really doing too much with it.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
48,315
Rodri is genuinely quite pointless isn't he. Bought for 70m or something and he's a proper 6/10 player. Atletico really sold them a dud.
 

Klopper76

"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
14,586
Location
Victoria, BC
Supports
Liverpool
Rodri is genuinely quite pointless isn't he. Bought for 70m or something and he's a proper 6/10 player. Atletico really sold them a dud.
I think he was meant to be Fernandinho’s long term replacement, but hasn’t lived up to expectations.

They’ve lost their edge under Guardiola. They used to swat teams like West Brom aside at ease. Now they’re massively struggling to put the ball in the net. Key players like Kompany and Silva haven’t been adequately replaced and Aguero (who has been immense for City under three managers) is getting to an age where he can’t play regularly enough to make the difference.

I do think Guardiola has been very hit and miss with signings. I thought Ake was a weird one. I never understood the hype there. ’
 

Sky12

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 25, 2017
Messages
47
Supports
Chelsea
Everyone is shit in this league at the moment
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,600
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Rodri is genuinely quite pointless isn't he. Bought for 70m or something and he's a proper 6/10 player. Atletico really sold them a dud.
It was interesting when he was sold, as many thought he was one of the best performers at Atletico and also a perfect fit to inherit the Busquets or Fernandinho role at City. Quite a few understandably jealous posts here, a few of which used it as conclusive evidence that our system was incompetent since we ‘let anyone else’ buy him, and we had the atricious dud Fred. Nowadays Fred is quite nifty and Rodri is a dud.

What happened (and what will happen in the future)?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
7,670
They should be doing better. Sterling, KDB, Dias, Walker/Cancelo, Rodri/Gundogan, Ederson and prime Aguero would got into our combined XI, that's minimum 6 or 7 of their players are considered as upgrade and their bench option also quality and would have upgrade what we have. They lack someone to drive them, someone like Kompany, the leader. KDB doesn't seem to be that type of leader.
 

SqualorVictoria

Full Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
596
Supports
City
The xG in the City game was 1.9 - 0.3 in City's favour. The PSxG was 1.4 - 0.1. It's a game City should have won really.
Yeah but the two headers right at the end gave City a big favour. Of course they were still big chances created, but the overall look of the game doesn't reflect the eventual xG I'm afraid. City under Pep barely looked this shit against such bad opponents.
 

adexkola

Arsenal supporter
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
40,074
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
They should be doing better. Sterling, KDB, Dias, Walker/Cancelo, Rodri/Gundogan, Ederson and prime Aguero would got into our combined XI, that's minimum 6 or 7 of their players are considered as upgrade and their bench option also quality and would have upgrade what we have. They lack someone to drive them, someone like Kompany, the leader. KDB doesn't seem to be that type of leader.
Leadership has nothing to do with them not winning against West Brom.

I know this is a thankless crusade but someone has to fight it *picks up Halberd* why do we all resort to all these cliches about mentality and stuff in sport in situations that have nothing to do with mentality?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
7,670
Leadership has nothing to do with them not winning against West Brom.

I know this is a thankless crusade but someone has to fight it *picks up Halberd* why do we all resort to all these cliches about mentality and stuff in sport in situations that have nothing to do with mentality?
Of course it does. A lack leadership in dressing room shows the mentality of the team, bottle. A match that should have been a win, they bottled it. Chelsea lost, they bottled it. It's not coincidence that their inconsistent result started when Kompany left the club.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
17,756
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
They should be doing better. Sterling, KDB, Dias, Walker/Cancelo, Rodri/Gundogan, Ederson and prime Aguero would got into our combined XI, that's minimum 6 or 7 of their players are considered as upgrade and their bench option also quality and would have upgrade what we have. They lack someone to drive them, someone like Kompany, the leader. KDB doesn't seem to be that type of leader.
They should be doing better. But the main issue last night and this season is not really about leadership and simply about players going off the boil. De Bruyne apart, everyone else in that front 5 looks off the pace. That's an issue for many teams this season as the inconsistent results and shoddy performances of the big teams demonstrate. There are other issues at play beyond a collective league-wide collapse of bottle.

Last night there was plenty of 'driving on' through the midfield to the edge of the WBA box, but the quality of chances created wasn't that great which is more down to form, tiredness, or not being that good in the first place. The two big chances saved late on showed that they do not always make the best use of De Bruyne's exceptional crossing because none of their midfield or attack can head the ball with any conviction or ability. While Aguero has been out they've lacked an effective line leader, which reflects how attacks have often fizzled out or not been converted when chances have been created.

All of that said I think you're right that, post-Kompany, they've lacked defensive quality, leadership and organisation. They lacked the depth to deal with the double whammy of losing the Kompany/Laporte partnership by August last year. That along with the weaker leadership and organisation seemed patently obvious at key points last season, particularly in the Champions League against Lyon. Guardiola has to take some responsibility there for changing things unnecessarily. Even last night after 6 consecutive clean sheets did Pep really need to change the central defensive partnership that had served them so well for most of that run? No surprise that it was the relatively rusty Ake, in his first game at centre-half in a couple of months, who was mostly responsible for the goal. I think he's very conscious of managing players' fitness this year and is making even more changes than normal, which may well pay off in the long run, but in the meantime is impacting upon the fluidity of their attacking play and the soundness of their defensive organisation.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
29,395
They miss Sane a lot.

Games like that last night he would keep the pitch wide and blast down the outside and get some dangerous crosses in, they've got nobody stretching the pitch in wide areas anymore.

Sterling tries but usually makes his runs inside the fullback rather than outside, so teams like WBA can sit in tight formation and let them have space on the outside channels.

Surprisingly they gave up 2 clean headers which they should have scored from, but they rode their luck a bit.
 

padr81

Full Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2015
Messages
8,166
Supports
Man City
They should be doing better. But the main issue last night and this season is not really about leadership and simply about players going off the boil. De Bruyne apart, everyone else in that front 5 looks off the pace. That's an issue for many teams this season as the inconsistent results and shoddy performances of the big teams demonstrate. There are other issues at play beyond a collective league-wide collapse of bottle.

Last night there was plenty of 'driving on' through the midfield to the edge of the WBA box, but the quality of chances created wasn't that great which is more down to form, tiredness, or not being that good in the first place. The two big chances saved late on showed that they do not always make the best use of De Bruyne's exceptional crossing because none of their midfield or attack can head the ball with any conviction or ability. While Aguero has been out they've lacked an effective line leader, which reflects how attacks have often fizzled out or not been converted when chances have been created.

All of that said I think you're right that, post-Kompany, they've lacked defensive quality, leadership and organisation. They lacked the depth to deal with the double whammy of losing the Kompany/Laporte partnership by August last year. That along with the weaker leadership and organisation seemed patently obvious at key points last season, particularly in the Champions League against Lyon. Guardiola has to take some responsibility there for changing things unnecessarily. Even last night after 6 consecutive clean sheets did Pep really need to change the central defensive partnership that had served them so well for most of that run? No surprise that it was the relatively rusty Ake, in his first game at centre-half in a couple of months, who was mostly responsible for the goal. I think he's very conscious of managing players' fitness this year and is making even more changes than normal, which may well pay off in the long run, but in the meantime is impacting upon the fluidity of their attacking play and the soundness of their defensive organisation.
Quality post but only one little thing I will disagree with and thats the driving on from midfield. With our new double pivot, its clear Gundogan doesn't break the lines like David Silva did and run in between nearly as often. He is far more conscious of covering Rodri and arriving late. So he arrives late in the box (like for his goal) but he doesn't push forward between the fb/cb like Merlin did. This is down to the new look 4231 where KDB is pushed further forward and Gundo held back. All our chances came in the last 10 minutes after we'd switched back to 433, KDB dropped from a 10 to his familiar 8.5 position and Gundo pushed on to David Silva's 8.5 position for lack of a better description of the role. Immediately KDB had more time and space to cause havoc and Gundo and Sterling/Jesus (when on the left) could overload the right side of the WBA defense.

Basically when we went back to our familiar formation and style of football we started to create. While I'm not a fan of the 4231 its pretty solid and we've been very solid in it. Giving up little in the way of chances and apart from a miscontrol by Cancelo and Ake being rusty gave up feck all again yesterday. The issue is thats fine vs Man United or Liverpool or even Wolves/Leicester who can tear you apart on the counter.

Against West Brom (with no disrespect) its pointless and leads to not putting teams to bed. Sure we still did enough to win the game with better finishing but the reality is we did that after the tactical switch. In games like this at home to weaker teams we have to start strong and play on the front foot, creating overloads and space and we simply don't do enough of it anymore. We play in front of teams too much.

The goal yesterday was a classic example. Watch KDB here creating the overload allowing Cancelo to play in Sterling, this is classic City (from 2 years ago). We simply don't get that enough anymore on the left side.
Thats a classic David Silva position, between fullback and CB. Later in the video when Gundogan is constantly popping up there we were creating chances at will pretty much. Gundo sits on the edge of the box and arrives late, which this time works out but he doesn't get in that hole enough to create overloads for our left winger and its a massive reason we struggle for goals with the double pivot. When Gundo did fill those spaces late in the game we looked much more likely to score. Its holding Sterling back too, chances are fewer for him and its showing.

This is not a Gundogan bash btw, he's been our best player this season in his role but its a clear downside of our tactical change.

KInda hard to show without images but In attack now we look like. Given we usually defend vs 6 and 2 or 5 and 3. I put in positions for oppo players.

fb--------------cb-------------cb-----------------fb
--sterling----------jesus----KDB--Mahrez
rm------------dm-----dm-----dm-------------lm
----------------Gundo--------------------------------
--Cancelo--------------Rodri-------Walker--
So this leads to Sterling being isolated by 3 players, oppo fb, rm and a dm. CB's can sit and deal easily with Jesus and the oppo's other 2 dm's can have one swamp KDB and the other sit and clean up, make interceptions etc.. He's always gonna be in the hole while Gundo is always deep. It also means our striker is running all over the place looking for an inch of space.

In the 433 while we gave up many more goals.
fb----------------cb-------------cb-----------------fb
--Sterling---Silva-jesus----KDB--Mahrez
rm------------dm-----dm-----dm-------------lm
------------------------------------------------------------
----Cancelo--------Rodri---------Walker------

It was overloads. Basically when teams made a back 6 with lm and rm. Sterling would run between full backs and wingers, Gundo between fb and cb, jesus between cb's, kdb between cb and lb and Mahrez between lb and lm.
Losing just one of those options means KDB can't drop to play killer balls because we can't create overloads on the left. Here our striker could stay in between the cb's and never have to drift out. Its clear to the oppo where to sit with the 4 man overload. whereas with the 5 man overload, . they never knew if it was gonna be Silva or KDB coming out (mostly KDB) but most importantly Silva was opening up huge holes for Raheem to tap in. When KDB stayed in the hole Merlin could drop and make that pre-assist. It was much more balanced and unpredictable in an attacking sense. We could simply overwhelm defences.
 

Pep's Suit

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,162
"Manchester City have kept 13 clean sheets in all competitions this season - more than any other club in Europe's top five leagues."

I don't enjoy City much this season but clearly Pep knows how to set up defence.
 

Gentleman Jim

It's absolutely amazing!
Joined
Jun 14, 2015
Messages
2,561
Location
Salford
Supports
city
Pep saw the writing on the wall, I think, that his system was being effectively countered too often.
Flooding the final third and having fast strikers winning foot races on the breakaway was starting to be an effective system against City too often for us to dominate in big competitions particularly as they don't currently have a reliable lethal striker to finish off whatever chances come their way.
This season may be too soon for another PL win but CL may be a realistic aim and with the addition of a top level young striker hopefully upcoming a return to long streaks of victories can follow.
 

Ladron de redcafe

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
314
Pep saw the writing on the wall, I think, that his system was being effectively countered too often.
Flooding the final third and having fast strikers winning foot races on the breakaway was starting to be an effective system against City too often for us to dominate in big competitions particularly as they don't currently have a reliable lethal striker to finish off whatever chances come their way.
This season may be too soon for another PL win but CL may be a realistic aim and with the addition of a top level young striker hopefully upcoming a return to long streaks of victories can follow.
I think that's especially the case since he started playing the Gundogan and Rhodri double pivot, because of their lack of mobility compared to someone like Fernandinho who used to have the pace to clean up if someone breached the midfield triumvirate.

This is interesting to see because Pep has never been a cautious manager. Perhaps the plethora of defeats last season (including the disappointing one against Lyon) elucidated the fact that this current group can't play the same way City played in 2018.

Let's see how things pan out.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
7,670
"Manchester City have kept 13 clean sheets in all competitions this season - more than any other club in Europe's top five leagues."

I don't enjoy City much this season but clearly Pep knows how to set up defence.
With the amount of money he spent for his defense, that should have been expected.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
21,733
"Manchester City have kept 13 clean sheets in all competitions this season - more than any other club in Europe's top five leagues."

I don't enjoy City much this season but clearly Pep knows how to set up defence.
We had that record last year. It doesnt actually mean all that much
 

Feed Me

I'm hungry
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
29,067
Location
Midlands, UK
We had that record last year. It doesnt actually mean all that much
Yep, I seem to recall United clocking up somewhere in the region of 30 clean sheets last term.

City are a shadow of the team they once were and a big rebuild is needed.

Credit to Pep for realising that he needs defensive solidity to keep his head above the parapet this season.
 

adexkola

Arsenal supporter
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
40,074
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
City's defensive records from the season before this one, and the one before that one, were dismissed as the "mere byproducts of their possession game depriving opponents of the ball", so I'm sure similar regard will be held for the fact that even with a 5-2 pasting at home to Leicester they've conceded the least amount of goals in the league so far.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
12,951
Supports
Aston Villa
Think they've just got better in there tbh, Ruben Dias looks the part from what I've seen. Interesting Laporte can't get back in and they've gone with John Stones last two months as his City career looked over.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
21,733
Are there actual rules thats known here? Palace had most of their team quarentined a few weeks ago and had to play?
It literally must be their entire squad. Plus they have had players break quatentine and thats an automatic forfeit if games are postponed
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
40,191
Location
Chelsea fan.
Are there actual rules thats known here? Palace had most of their team quarentined a few weeks ago and had to play?
It litetally must be their entire squad
It's Walker, Jesus and 3 (unamed) others.
 

Chief123

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
2,762
Location
Wumming Gym
Are there actual rules thats known here? Palace had most of their team quarentined a few weeks ago and had to play?
It literally must be their entire squad. Plus they have had players break quatentine and thats an automatic forfeit if games are postponed
Leyton Orient had to forfeit their Carabao tie against Spurs due to having too many with covid.

I did wonder whether city would have to forfeit the semi-final which is in 9 days, but apparently the forfeit rule only applied up to the 4th round. Plus there is enough time between now and April to reschedule the semi.

What will be concerning for city is they will now be 3 games behind most teams in the league, possibly 4 games of Chelsea doesn’t go ahead.

The season could end up a real mess in the second half for the league. I genuinely see a postponement of the league again and the cancellation of the Euros. Especially with the new strain of the virus being even more infectious than before. We’ve had the highest number of cases in a day today since the pandemic started!
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
21,733
Leyton Orient had to forfeit their Carabao tie against Spurs due to having too many with covid.

I did wonder whether city would have to forfeit the semi-final which is in 9 days, but apparently the forfeit rule only applied up to the 4th round. Plus there is enough time between now and April to reschedule the semi.

What will be concerning for city is they will now be 3 games behind most teams in the league, possibly 4 games of Chelsea doesn’t go ahead.

The season could end up a real mess in the second half for the league. I genuinely see a postponement of the league again and the cancellation of the Euros. Especially with the new strain of the virus being even more infectious than before. We’ve had the highest number of cases in a day today since the pandemic started!
Cant see our game getting postponed.
If a team has enough for 11 and 3 subs then they are forced to play.
 

SinNombre

Full Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2019
Messages
1,128
Leyton Orient had to forfeit their Carabao tie against Spurs due to having too many with covid.

I did wonder whether city would have to forfeit the semi-final which is in 9 days, but apparently the forfeit rule only applied up to the 4th round. Plus there is enough time between now and April to reschedule the semi.
However, unlike Leyton Orient, who had to forfeit their tie against Tottenham earlier in the competition when their squad was ravaged by positive coronavirus tests, the semi-final would be rearranged.


This is kinda bad for us as well if the semifinal gets arranged since we will need 2 games rearranged.
 

Pep's Suit

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
1,162
City's schedule between February 6 and March 6:

Liverpool A
Tottenham H
Arsenal A
Gladbach A
West Ham H
United H
And Everton A likely to be added somewhere between, can't afford to drop more points now.

Genuinely think they have to beat Chelsea today
 

Feed Me

I'm hungry
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
29,067
Location
Midlands, UK
City's schedule between February 6 and March 6:

Liverpool A
Tottenham H
Arsenal A
Gladbach A
West Ham H
United H
And Everton A likely to be added somewhere between, can't afford to drop more points now.

Genuinely think they have to beat Chelsea today
Any chance today’s game gets called off? That’s a killer run of fixtures.
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
13,837
Assuming they have at least 14 fit players who have tested negative they should be forced to play today. I don’t agree with this narrative on Twitter about calling it off.

It’s not Chelsea’s fault City players broke protocol.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
18,437
Location
Scotland
Supports
Everton
Mendy decided to break covid rules despite having to have a game called off due to covid cases at his club. fecking moron and deserves a lengthy ban.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
29,395
Can’t believe how unprofessional city players are.

you would think them having to miss the Everton match and close the training ground would be warning enough!
 

Feed Me

I'm hungry
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
29,067
Location
Midlands, UK
The players are taking the piss. The game should go ahead, since this is self inflicted. If they can’t field a squad then points should be forfeited.
 

Hernandez - BFA

The Way to Fly
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
15,539
They should absolutely play today.
The same way I’d say we should play if we have 5 positive swabs. You have a 25 man squad that doesn’t even count players from the U23s.
If you have 18 players available, you should play. Bollocks to this postponement which then affects the other team who’ve done nothing wrong and followed bubble rules.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
14,103
Theyve already used the trick of announcing loads of positive tests a few hours before kick off so there is no time to respond. Wonder what they will try this time. They should have to forfeit the Everton game and play with whatever they have against Chelsea.
 

Cheech Wizard

Liverpool fan
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Messages
5,696
Location
Lé Fylde Coast
Supports
Liverpool
Sex pest obsessed club, about time some proper action was taking and not just petty individual fines.. they’re are disrupting the league and ruining it for everyone now.