It actually is incredible. The fact our B-Team defence is probably the best £200m defence in the league when the only competition is Uniteds £200m starting one and both of them are more expensive than our first choice defence really is something.
Man City 2020/21 - General discussion
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Wasn't Cancelo your first choice LB in most games? Zinchenko played 3 games in league, hardly part of first choice defense.
I would guess defense of Walker, Cancelo, Stones, Dias cost more than Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, AWB.
yeah, £10-20m in it which isn't as huge as I thought it might be
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Certainly takes lots of credibility from any notion that guardiola has done a good job rebuilding the defence. He just kept buying until he got it right
Yeah, fair play to FFP on that one.
Essien would be proud
I expect he's already started the cycle on fernandinho. Another player he inherited. Spent a huge amount on rodri who I imagine he will seek to upgrade. And his striker search will go the same way. Mega bucks and if it fails just buy again.
Even compare to solskjaer, who made signings who have all arguably performed exactly as he would have hoped, and he's also improved lindelof, Shaw, Fred, mctominay and his front 2 who were all very poor more often than not before his arrival.
Guardiola is a very good manager when he has an unlimited budget to keep trying to get it right. There's no chance for example that he'd even consider trying to revive barca now, without a blank cheque. He knows he doesn't have it in him
Well if they breeze through that February period as you seem to be predicting then find it hard to believe we will be able to sustain a challenge into April and keep enough pressure on them, like you say we really need them to keep progressing in the Champions League so they have to focus on more than one big competition. I don't want them to win it but just want that competition to wear them out a bit but unlikely with their mental squad depth available.
Yeah I feel like our fixtures are spread out better than yours but then you already have the knowhow of staying the course and being able to get over that line when it matters. I didn't think I would feel so disappointed with a draw at Anfield but after your result last night there is definitely regret we didn't go for it a bit more yesterday.
In football manager maybe, not in real life though.
How do you mean?
Football isn't played on paper, having the best players or most expensive players doesn't mean they'll play well together on the pitch. The coaching is what matters.
Don't really see a dramatic turn around with city, even in bad form they have always maintained a good amount of possession throughout games imposing their pattern of play but have been inconsistent with finishing chances due to Aguero's injury this is evident with the amount of draws. The defence has been more robust so the foreclosure of a loss in their fixtures is highly doubtful.
City are a good example that if your performances are adequate the results will begin to pick up. For me this is still where we lack a real identity as a team. I had a similar feeling under Jose when we finished second, we wasn't performing our way to victory. I think if Solskjaer can put more emphasis on the team controlling games he would give us the managerial balance we've lacked in between the likes of a hybrid LVG and Jose. A team very good in possession but also sure enough to offer a counter when transitioning from defence. I know it's easier said than done if what I've mentioned above is to be true Solskjaer would fast become one of the best managers around.
City are a good example that if your performances are adequate the results will begin to pick up. For me this is still where we lack a real identity as a team. I had a similar feeling under Jose when we finished second, we wasn't performing our way to victory. I think if Solskjaer can put more emphasis on the team controlling games he would give us the managerial balance we've lacked in between the likes of a hybrid LVG and Jose. A team very good in possession but also sure enough to offer a counter when transitioning from defence. I know it's easier said than done if what I've mentioned above is to be true Solskjaer would fast become one of the best managers around.
They will win the title easily, sorry to say. They're like a storm on the horizon, we can all see it coming, but there's nothing we can do to stop them. All we can do is brace for impact.
I only see a weakness at left-back. Imagine if they had Shaw in their defence. He is the dream fullback for Guardiola's football. Cancelo, Stones, Dias, Shaw - with Walker and Laporte to call upon depending on form/fitness, that would be one of most fearsome defences I could imagine.
I only see a weakness at left-back. Imagine if they had Shaw in their defence. He is the dream fullback for Guardiola's football. Cancelo, Stones, Dias, Shaw - with Walker and Laporte to call upon depending on form/fitness, that would be one of most fearsome defences I could imagine.
And when you can't get the coaching right you keep buying until you do. A luxury most managers don't have
You are being disingenuous and you know it.
You use euro on a discussion concerning teams based in a country where pounds sterling is the currency of record thus inflating the numbers.
You make Angelino a nett loss on the profit and loss ledger when you know full well that RBL will be taking up their option that will make him a profitable transaction for City in a few months time.
Otamendi came to City for virtually nothing as Valencia owed us money for Negredo that they couldn’t afford to pay at the time so we took a player of roughly equivalent value instead.
You’re right about Mangala. We got truly stung on him.
Clubs often back their coaches when they can clearly see the vision of the coach and buy into it.
Pep didn't spend a lot his first season with Barcelona, but went ahead and won every title playing a very exciting, innovative and expansive brand of football. From that point, every club he went to was going to buy into his vision because they want their teams to play the kind of football that Pep proposes, that's why he has the luxury that most coaches don't have.
Defensively they're on a whole different level to everyone else in the league and this is why they're favourites for the title in my opinion.
That was evident in the LC cup game last week. They barely gave us a sniff of goal at any point in the game, something no side has been able to do to us this season, including Liverpool.
I'm not talking about barcelona and the team he inherited there. Nor Munich where he won the league as expected.
I'm talking about spending 400m on defence and it still not seeming sorted, only to go get yet another 60m defender. Any praise guardiola gets for the defence gets now must be tempered with him having spent close to 500m on it, gk included
I disagree completely that the reason other coaches don't neccesarily get that money because of the way they play compared to guardiola
Pep is no doubt a very good coach but he is a bit over rated.
He gets teams playing great football - fact.
Some claim he is something special and changes the whole style, is only somewhat correct. Barca have always played good football, he inherited a team with Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and the like. Post Pep, barca didn't stop winning trophies, even with an average manager
Bayern - took over a high pressing team that won the treble, ended up playing great football but didn't win a CL.. Post Pep, Bayern continue to win titles and play good football and winning the CL
City- City were dominant under Pellegrini too, they were hard to play against and beat. He came in and inherited a group of talented players.
Compare that to a Klopp who can get average players playing WC football, its a big difference.
Pep needs money, he doesnt really improve players.
Good thing I didn't say that then. I talked about clubs buying into the vision of the coach, i didn't say every team has to play the same way as Pep.I'm not talking about barcelona and the team he inherited there. Nor Munich where he won the league as expected.
I'm talking about spending 400m on defence and it still not seeming sorted, only to go get yet another 60m defender. Any praise guardiola gets for the defence gets now must be tempered with him having spent close to 500m on it, gk included
I disagree completely that the reason other coaches don't neccesarily get that money because of the way they play compared to guardiola
I talked about his 1st season with Barcelona because because his achievements that season is what gave him the luxury you said he gets that most managers don't.
He hasn't spent anywhere close to 400m on his defence, that's just fake news.
And in the last 3 seasons, City has had either the best or 2nd best defence in the league.
"fake news"?
Hes spent approx £410m on defence.
'From that point, every club he went to was going to buy into his vision because they want their teams to play the kind of football that Pep proposes, that's why he has the luxury that most coaches don't have'
This is what you said. It pretty plainly says clubs are happy to shovel money at him just because of the way he coaches teams and that's why other coaches don't get the money he does. It suggests he has some sort of ability other managers simply don't. But give any decent manager a 500m defence and hell get the same result at the back.
Ederson 40m
Walker 50m
Stones 50m
Laporte 57m
Dias 65m
Ake 40m
Mendy 52m
Cancelo 60m
That's 410m off the top of my head, and doesn't include players he's bought and shipped. (or defensive midfielders) If United or Chelsea or literally any prem team had those players you'd get the same result at the back and its a travesty that he hadn't sorted it until dias came. For somebody supposedly so easy to back in the market it took a fair chunk of money to sort his defence out when the players he inherited started ageing.
If you can't accept that any 'achievement' with the defence is tempered by the fact that its more expensive than most squads in world football then you're in fantasy pep land
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Many big players he's coached claim otherwise, i think they know better.
All those teams played good football before he came but the way they played wasn't as dominant as the way they played under him. No fan of those teams will claim otherwise.
Some big players say otherwise too... ?
I did say, he makes teams play better, the football is brilliant on occasions. Are you saying Bayern didn't dominate games last season? or Barca in the CL win in 14/15 were dominant too.
What I am saying is, he has hardly built a team.
Every manager needs money it's nothing specific to Guardiola and it's absolute nonsense to say Guardiola doesn't improve players and it's a complete fallacy that you could play WC football with major core of average players in your team and it holds true for Klopp as it did for Sir Alex and honestly its quite disrespectful to the players you could get away with having some average players but trust me you aren't winning major trophies without your team's core being good it simply doesn't happen .
Offcourse he does
Then United and Chelsea should have gone for them.
United's defence is just as expensive as that of City, same with Chelsea.
Like i said earlier, other than Pep's first season, City has had the best or 2nd best defence in the league.
I've gone as far as including Jones and Rojo and still can't get close to what city's is. You're just making stuff up. (not to mention that's Soldkjaer making do with what he inherited apart from Awb maguire and Telles)
It's weird nobody is even saying he isn't a very good manager in fact many are going above and beyond that while accepting the clear evidence that he has spent close to 1 billion at City even though all his best players were already there. It simply takes from the idea that he has just coached his way there. He just kept buying.
Who says good players cost £80m a pop?
How many of the current City first XI were there before him? It’s only De Bruyne and Sterling I think. He’s definitely built a team.
Their all time record signing cost £64.3m.
Where did I say that and If Klopp can turn average players into great ones he wouldn't have needed to make wholesale changes to the team he inherited either.
What has the current XI won?
Compare that to the centurions..
De Bruyne, Aguero, Silva, Sterling, Otamendi, Delph, Fernandinho, Kompany.
Pep took over teams that won League titles to win league titles.
Klopp took over teams that are not competing to win CL finals, CL wins and League titles against the best teams.
Unless they suffer a wave of injuries, I think they'll cruise to the title. Since their third match of the season, they have conceded xg >1 in only one match all year, and that was just 1.19 against Liverpool. Nobody is creating anything against them and they're still creating plenty themselves.
Guardiola struggled for a long time to figure out how to forge a balanced side after Kompany left and Fernandinho declined, moving to two CMs rather than one DM behind two attacking mids and trying to get the right combination of personnel on the back line. He seems to have hit big on Dias and now has figured it out. Their current form is the best they've looked since the amazing run to close out the 18-19 season.
Guardiola struggled for a long time to figure out how to forge a balanced side after Kompany left and Fernandinho declined, moving to two CMs rather than one DM behind two attacking mids and trying to get the right combination of personnel on the back line. He seems to have hit big on Dias and now has figured it out. Their current form is the best they've looked since the amazing run to close out the 18-19 season.
Ser19 picked the team not me!
Not really. The fact you think you can simply hand the best players to any manager and get the best results from them kinda negates your opinion on it. He's had the best defence in the league there abouts every season.
16-17 - 4th best defence. (39)
17-18 - Best Defence (with Otamendi who you guys think is a clown in team of the season) (27)
18-19 - 2nd (23), one goal more than Liverpool (22). 16 goals less conceded than 3rd place (39).
19-20 - 2nd (35), two goals more than Liverpool (33)
20-21 - 1st so far. 13 in 17 games.
In 169 games in English football and 2 seasons considered a disaster by his standards he's conceded 137 goals.
Any team in England currently rocking a better defensive record since Pep arrived?
City: 137 in 169 games (regardless of defenders)
Liverpool - 156 in 170
Spurs - 165 in 170
United - 171 in 170
During that time, he's used Jesus Navas at RB, Fernandinho at CB, a no.10 in Zinchenko at LB, played without his best CB for half of every season, played without his new best CB for almost an entire season (who was then a crock on returning from injury) scored about a billion goals playing non bus park and counter football and still conceded less than everyone in the league.
But he hadn't a decent defence till this season? I'd say his defence has been pretty decent every season, even in his poor one. In fact in only 1 season has he conceded more than a goal a game.
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Wheres the Essien math. AWB 50m, Maguire 80, Shaw 33m, Lindelof 34m, De Gea £18m seeing as we're now counting keepers. £215m...
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I would say that his individual defenders cost him games. He is one of the best managers in terms of stifling teams attacks.
The way he can get a team to win the ball back in the opposition's defensive areas is impressive. Then as soon as a Pep team goes 1-0 up it is a long way back because of the way they keep the ball.