Man City boss Pep Guardiola leads calls to allow five substitutes again

Cloud7

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Why does English football enjoy handicapping itself relative to the rest of Europe like this? First it was ending the transfer window before every other country, and now it's being the only league not allowing five substitutes during the most fixture congested season this century.
 

Smores

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I can't recall this many people being in favour of it when it was discussed in the summer.

It's such an obviously bad idea I'm shocked any football fan is in favour.
 

Pink Moon

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I think it’s an unfair advantage to the bigger clubs with better squads. More game changers to come off the bench.

They could maybe allow one extra substitution, but only from the 75th minute or something like that.
I hate this argument. The bigger clubs have better squads to choose from in the first place so is that an unfair advantage?

The bigger clubs' 3 subs are generally going to be better of better quality than Burnley's or whoever's 3 subs are.

There is no "unfair advantage" by simply being better.
 

432JuanMata

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He’s right the CL is 5 subs and PL is one of the few top leagues that plays the winter. I like 5 subs as long as you have to use them in 3 gos max as 5 single subs slows down the game
 

sullydnl

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Why does English football enjoy handicapping itself relative to the rest of Europe like this? First it was ending the transfer window before every other country, and now it's being the only league not allowing five substitutes during the most fixture congested season this century.
I'm tempted to make a Brexit comparison but I'll resist.
 

Cloud7

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I'm tempted to make a Brexit comparison but I'll resist.
:lol: It didn't even cross my mind, but generally when you look back at the history of football on the whole, the powers that be in English football always seem to have sought to make things as difficult as possible for English teams, as opposed to the other leagues where the governing bodies usually try to help.
 

Footy van de Geek

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I hate this argument. The bigger clubs have better squads to choose from in the first place so is that an unfair advantage?

The bigger clubs' 3 subs are generally going to be better of better quality than Burnley's or whoever's 3 subs are.

There is no "unfair advantage" by simply being better.
It's a legal advantage. Nothing stops clubs from building squads made up of 20 world class players if possible. FFP failed. But they can usually only use 13 players (keep 1 sub in case of injury) in any given match. Now that increases to 15. 16 if they really want to. If chasing a game late on. It's not hard to grasp that the better teams gain an advantage.

Celtic would find it even easier if allowed to use all four of Edouard, Griffiths, Ajeti and Klimala regularly.
 
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Pep's Suit

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3 subs will hurt PL teams in CL during KO stage when every other top league allows 5.
 

Pink Moon

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It's a legal advantage. Nothing stops clubs from building squads made up of 20 world class players if possible. FFP failed. But they can usually only use 13 players (keep 1 sub in case of injury) in any given match. Now that increases to 15. 16 if they really want to. If chasing a game late on. It's not hard to grasp that the better teams gain an advantage.

Celtic would find it even easier if allowed to use all four of Edouard, Griffiths, Ajeti and Klimala regularly.
That part would be a disadvantage for us tbf :lol:
 

VorZakone

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Is there no players union that has an influence on this matter? Why can't the players have a vote on this?
 

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It should’ve been done. I’m not in favour of changing the rule permanently, but with the lack of break this year, Euros coming in the summer and the farcical World Cup in the winter after that it would’ve been beneficial to the players and not just those at the top clubs.
 

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It will definitely favor the rich teams with abundance of riches sitting on the bench. I can see the rationale behind not implementing it so that the difference in quality isn't further exacerbated by the ability to replace tired players with fresh players who are far more talented.

I agree that fixture congestion is a problem but no body is forcing any club to compete in 5 or 6 competitions. It's a choice the club has made. I do think that increasing the number of subs will ensure that there will be far less competition and the top 5-6 clubs are guaranteed to win all their games against the bottom feeders.
 

TheRedHearted

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Manchester City boss Pep Guardiola says the Premier League should allow five substitutes per match again because of a rise in muscle injuries this season.
Guardiola said there has been "47% more muscular injuries" this year compared with the same stage last season.
Premier League clubs voted against continuing to permit five substitutions for the 2020-21 season in August.
The rule was brought in when the 2019-20 season restarted after lockdown in June to protect player welfare.
When asked if the Premier League should revert to allowing five substitutions instead of three, Guardiola said: "They should 100%."
City have been affected by injuries to several players this season, including Sergio Aguero, Gabriel Jesus, Benjamin Mendy and Nathan Ake.
"It is not about one club," added Guardiola.
"In the Premier League players have 47% more muscular injuries than the previous season, due to no preparation for most of the teams and the amount of games.
"All the leagues - Germany, Spain, everywhere - allow five substitutions to protect the players, not to protect one team.
"Hopefully they can reconsider and do what the rest of the world does because we have to adjust to the pandemic situation."



link




I agree with him. I would actually bump it up to 6 subs - the amount of games they play in so little time is madness. Other top leagues have allowed 5 subs, it's always English football that make it difficult for themselves.
A hundred percent agree with him. If not at least make it four but still - the schedule is condensed and it’s just crazy to do it to the players.
 

treble_winner

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I think it’s an unfair advantage to the bigger clubs with better squads. More game changers to come off the bench.

They could maybe allow one extra substitution, but only from the 75th minute or something like that.
Not this stuff again. British clubs usually do not perform that well in the Champions League because they were already run to the ground in our own League. For once, can we just think of the greater good instead of trying to shoot our own English clubs in the foot?
 

Ludens the Red

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Not this stuff again. British clubs usually do not perform that well in the Champions League because they were already run to the ground in our own League. For once, can we just think of the greater good instead of trying to shoot our own English clubs in the foot?
One of the biggest myths in football this.

In the last ten years there have been five English Champions League finalists. A record only beaten by Spain who have eight.
Germany with four and Italy with a measly two.

If you look at the Europa League it’s the same pattern. Spain with seven finalists, England with five. Italy one, Germany zero.

The previous ten years you had an English club in five finals in a row.

England and Spain simply piss all over Europe when it comes to performance in European competition hence the high coefficients.
England, Spain and Italy all have 20 team leagues so I’m very confused as to the comment that English clubs get ‘ran into the ground in their league’. They play a few extra games in the League Cup which most clubs apart from Man City don’t take particularly seriously until they get to a Semi.

You get all these managers moaning about the mythical hard English schedule (mostly foreign managers) and all it boils down to is them having to work during Christmas which they’re not used to and so dont like. That’s the sum of the difference, I mean nobody likes working during xmas.

If you look at the other European leagues though you will also notice that in the second half of the season they tend to have very busy midweek schedules because they have to make up for their lack of league games during the Xmas period.
 

Maciej

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Just to give my opinion (if anybody cared).

This season five subs should be allowed, because playing every week like this (Premier League - Champions League - Premier League) is tiring and sometimes it's done after 60 minutes, but only this season. I don't care whether this means more youngsters playing senior football or what. Three subs is okay, but not in those strange times when you've got same number of games to play, but in a shorter period than usually.
 

Pep's Suit

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Well the cup itself has different rules, it’s consistent for any team in the competition (5 subs)
Won't help when you play every three days, over Christmas, two domestic cups and can make 3 subs in those other 50 games after you had 8 day pre-season and played zero friendlies during summer because you had to finish PL+CL during July and August. I'm not trying to make excuses for Pep but I don't think Red Bull+Lyon+possibly even PSG would have made Last 4 in CL if they had to finish seasons days before travelling to Portugal like La Liga and Premier League teams.
 

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I can get on board with 4 subs and then back down to three subs next seaosn.
 

horsechoker

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2+goalie. Lets go more hardcore.
I'm surprised they don't.

Here's what the English authorities want:
- no foreign signings unless they've won a balloon door
- players must be between 21-33
- 1 sub only if a player had sustained a head injury
- players boots must be of lead
- the pitch is to be set ablaze, literally
- a game is to be played every 2 days
- matches are to be 120 minutes
- 2 minutes for half time
 

MattofManchester

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I'm surprised they don't.

Here's what the English authorities want:
- no foreign signings unless they've won a balloon door
- players must be between 21-33
- 1 sub only if a player had sustained a head injury
- players boots must be of lead
- the pitch is to be set ablaze, literally
- a game is to be played every 2 days
- matches are to be 120 minutes
- 2 minutes for half time
All players play in black and white vertical striped uniforms?
 

Glorio

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Managers are asking for it, the other top leagues are doing it, the Champions League is doing it, the EFL is on board, so what's the premier league's reason for not allowing this while players keep dropping like flies to injury. Sometimes they are really just a pointlessly obstinate bunch
 

acnumber9

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Managers are asking for it, the other top leagues are doing it, the Champions League is doing it, the EFL is on board, so what's the premier league's reason for not allowing this while players keep dropping like flies to injury. Sometimes they are really just a pointlessly obstinate bunch
It’s the clubs that vote on it and it requires a majority to be in favour. Each club is looking after their own interests.
 

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If its not before christmas it'll be just after, there's no way we'll go the whole season without this being brought in. Even the teams against it will buckle when their sides get decimated.
 
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youmeletsfly

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Why does English football enjoy handicapping itself relative to the rest of Europe like this? First it was ending the transfer window before every other country, and now it's being the only league not allowing five substitutes during the most fixture congested season this century.
Because they think football in the UK is some sort of a special phenomenon comparred to other countries. Also the EPL/FA might be ran by a few fecking idiots, this works as well.
 

Xaviesta

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Managers are asking for it, the other top leagues are doing it, the Champions League is doing it, the EFL is on board, so what's the premier league's reason for not allowing this while players keep dropping like flies to injury. Sometimes they are really just a pointlessly obstinate bunch
In order for the 5 sub rule to be in place, 14 of the 20 Premier League clubs have to agree to it. The big 6 + Leicester will be all for it. I doubt 7 of the other 13 will be keen .
 
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Because they think football in the UK is some sort of a special phenomenon comparred to other countries. Also the EPL/FA might be ran by a few fecking idiots, this works as well.
Mir was taken to a vote was it not? The majority of clubs didn’t want it, and voted to return to 3 subs. Not arguing that the authorities are not self serving, out of date idiots - but here the clubs got what they voted for. You can understand the perspective from the clubs in the bottom half, as 5 subs gives a greater advantage to richer clubs, with bigger squads.
 

youmeletsfly

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Mir was taken to a vote was it not? The majority of clubs didn’t want it, and voted to return to 3 subs. Not arguing that the authorities are not self serving, out of date idiots - but here the clubs got what they voted for. You can understand the perspective from the clubs in the bottom half, as 5 subs gives a greater advantage to richer clubs, with bigger squads.
I can understand it from a game management perspective, not allowing a bigger club to use their all world class substitutions. Put as a small club you need to use those 5 subs to rotate your squad and that should be more important than fighting the big clubs, as the risk of losing your own players will damage you more than the other club not being able to use theirs.
 

Turnip

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*looks at United's bench*

No, I think we're better off without.


In all seriousness I think this should absolutely happen, but either 1 or 2 of the subs that come on have to be under he age of 21 to encourage big clubs to actually use some of their youth.
 

Matthew84!

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Why would any club except the ones in europe vote for 5 subs, makes no sense what so ever, these so called small clubs still are only playing once a week and seeing the big clubs get injuries are equalling the playing field, will be 3 subs all season,
 

Pep's Suit

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Obviously only big clubs would profit from it but should have been allowed for health reasons anyway.
 
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I can understand it from a game management perspective, not allowing a bigger club to use their all world class substitutions. Put as a small club you need to use those 5 subs to rotate your squad and that should be more important than fighting the big clubs, as the risk of losing your own players will damage you more than the other club not being able to use theirs.
potentially, and maybe they will come to that realisation. But these smaller clubs also don’t have European commitments, so will play a lot less games. One would also assume they have far less of their players away on international duty as well.
 

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*looks at United's bench*

No, I think we're better off without.



In all seriousness I think this should absolutely happen, but either 1 or 2 of the subs that come on have to be under he age of 21 to encourage big clubs to actually use some of their youth.

What do you mean? We have one of the best benches in the league...

Say the starting Xl vs Everton stays the same (other than Telles in for Shaw), not bad to then be able to bring on Pogba, Van de Beek, Cavani, Greenwood and then have the option of Matic/Tuanzebe as a defensive change.
 

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What I have always disagreed with is changing rules during a season as it effects the integrity of the competition. All previous results would have question marks over them.

But I do agree with Pep here. I cannot understand why European Leagues would have such drastically different rules on something so important, particularly when they will be facing each other in the Champion's League/Europa League. Pretty baffling, it should be all agreed in unison at the start of the season before a ball is kicked. Either everyone has five or everyone has three.
 

romufc

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Obviously only big clubs would profit from it but should have been allowed for health reasons anyway.
If you look at it like that, yes big clubs have an advantage in individual games because of the quality they have in the squad.

However; this does not mean smaller clubs wont get injuries, look at Everton, Leicester or even West Ham with Antonio.

Its fine, bigger clubs will have more quality to bring from the bench but is it worth losing an important player for 8 weeks, when if you had an extra sub, he would be out for 2 weeks?

In the long run, this could impact the smaller clubs more because bigger clubs have a big enough squad to be without 3/4 players for weeks.

Look at United, Shaw is replaced by Telles which does not impact the squad strength.
 

Adam-Utd

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Obviously only big clubs would profit from it but should have been allowed for health reasons anyway.
Not sure about that. The whole premier league have enough depth to fill the bench now. if it means resting somebody at 60 minutes instead of HAVING to play the whole 90 it could potentially save a lot of injuries.

It's not only the PL this is happening either. Loads of spanish / german / italian / french players are getting muscle injuries too.
 

Darlington Padgett

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It will definitely favor the rich teams with abundance of riches sitting on the bench. I can see the rationale behind not implementing it so that the difference in quality isn't further exacerbated by the ability to replace tired players with fresh players who are far more talented.

I agree that fixture congestion is a problem but no body is forcing any club to compete in 5 or 6 competitions. It's a choice the club has made. I do think that increasing the number of subs will ensure that there will be far less competition and the top 5-6 clubs are guaranteed to win all their games against the bottom feeders.
Why? it balances itself with the number of games top clubs are playing. We were playing twice a week while smaller teams just once. Some of our players play 180 mins nearly every week, I get the point that some teams will have better squads than others but that is not a good reason to just risk the players.